The Lonely Lioness - Cersei Lannister Quest
- Thread starter Azel
- Start date
- Mature
GildedSergeant
Tarnished Gold and Rattling Bones
- Location
- Over There
- Pronouns
- They/Them
While we have some time to think before our next turn vote, do we have any thoughts on who to fill the spot of Master of Laws? Depending on how the meeting with Olenna goes we may need to give the position to a Reachman, probably a Tyrell or one of the Redwynes, whose fleet would certainly come in handy if we can secure their allegiance.
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
You could vote for Golden Crownlands or Cersei of Casterly Rock, unless those send too many Goldcloaks for your liking.
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Cersei appointed Orton Merryweather, a Reachman, to an equivalent office in canon, so presumably he's someone we personally trust. Kevan Lannister would later appoint Randyll Tarly, another Reachman, Master of Laws, so presumably he can at least be trusted to not act contrary to Lannister interests. For someone more connected to Houses Tyrell or Redwyne specifically, perhaps Paxter Redwyne (who lone of his house did not declare for Renly in canon) or Moryn Tyrell (who has possibly-relevant experience as head of the Oldtown city guard)?
I don't think we want to bring in a Redwyne while we're placing a lot of trust in and hope on Renfred Rykker, however. If he fears for his job as Master of Ships (which he might if Paxter, the commander of the Redwyne fleet, is appointed to the Small Council), he might turn cloak to Stannis or one of the Targaryens in which case we'd be well up shit creek.
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- Location
- behind you
I have been thinking of ways to earn some money and help the creations of the fleets and maybe more men with real examples just as the Romans sought financial support during the Punic Wars and the medieval church utilized indulgences, we can adopt similar strategies to achieve our goals.
1-. In medieval times, indulgences were used by the church to grant remission of sins in exchange for donations. the high septon is now our friend and somewhat corrupt, we can adapt this for our fundraising efforts. Consider creating a system where individuals can contribute to our cause and, in return, receive exclusive privileges or benefits. This could include personalized tokens, access to exclusive events, honorary titles or even lordly titles(and people will believe us, especially when they see us thrashing the Targaryen in rooks rest and finding some lands to give, for example claw isle)
2-. Going waaaaay back to the Romans during the Punic Wars approached wealthy citizens for direct funding. We have influence and charisma to engage with rich people or organizations (merchants, guilds, etc) who may be interested in supporting our projects. Highlight the benefits they will gain from being associated with our initiatives, such as increased social standing, networking opportunities and such....make it a party, who gives more to show everyone that he or she is better than everyone else, who knows, the friend of a friend (varys) says that this is THE chance for a lordship.
3-. Make it a competition; create tiers of contributions, each offering unique privileges. For example, smaller contributions might grant access to exclusive events or personalized tokens, while larger contributions could earn honorary titles or even lordly titles. (pure capitalism in westeros😅😂)
All of this for later of course.
1-. In medieval times, indulgences were used by the church to grant remission of sins in exchange for donations. the high septon is now our friend and somewhat corrupt, we can adapt this for our fundraising efforts. Consider creating a system where individuals can contribute to our cause and, in return, receive exclusive privileges or benefits. This could include personalized tokens, access to exclusive events, honorary titles or even lordly titles(and people will believe us, especially when they see us thrashing the Targaryen in rooks rest and finding some lands to give, for example claw isle)
2-. Going waaaaay back to the Romans during the Punic Wars approached wealthy citizens for direct funding. We have influence and charisma to engage with rich people or organizations (merchants, guilds, etc) who may be interested in supporting our projects. Highlight the benefits they will gain from being associated with our initiatives, such as increased social standing, networking opportunities and such....make it a party, who gives more to show everyone that he or she is better than everyone else, who knows, the friend of a friend (varys) says that this is THE chance for a lordship.
3-. Make it a competition; create tiers of contributions, each offering unique privileges. For example, smaller contributions might grant access to exclusive events or personalized tokens, while larger contributions could earn honorary titles or even lordly titles. (pure capitalism in westeros😅😂)
All of this for later of course.
- Location
- Germany
Cersei the Twitch Streamer is definitely something I didn't expect to be proposed.
GildedSergeant
Tarnished Gold and Rattling Bones
- Location
- Over There
- Pronouns
- They/Them
After reading up on the wiki a bit, it seems like he didn't declare against us cannon since we have his sons Horas and Hobber as hostages. I was wondering about the big question mark that is the Redwyne fleet, but I looks at least tentatively like it won't be an immediate issue. As a side note, we ought to take stock of our hostages and maybe use them diplomatically.
That's a pretty good idea... We'll need a sea-worthy fleet before too long, but maybe we can fund a brownwater fleet this way. It'd be a good bit cheaper (and therefore more feasible), less dangerous to allow river-navy ships to be owned or built by our wealthy class, and it'll help the food situation. If we allow them to keep the ships after the war to use as traders, it may help with buy-in also. Plus, the Tyrells have a big fleet of river barges they used in the cannon battle of the Blackwater which we would be better able to defend against.
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- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
The Goldcloaks aren't a crown institution, they are a municipal institution of King's Landing. To the extent they are subordinated practically to the Iron Throne (which, to be clear, they are not, they are most directly subordinated to Varys at the moment, and he is very much an actor independent of us), this is a momentary consequence of day-to-day politicking. Meanwhile the Crownlander lords actually owe fealty and homage to the King.
Them being our vassals doesn't change the fact that we're sending then out against a numerically equal opponent and didn't give them any tangible support. We didn't even send a kingsguard to lead them because they're all off playing with the king against bandits. It being justified by the situation and the feudal contract doesn't mean much when they have another option right across the field.
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I still think being told to fight with and command Goldcloaks in the field will be taken by the Crownlander lords as more of a slight and offense than a help.
- Location
- Who knows?
I'm 99% certain Selmy being the first person ever to be fired from the KG (like everyone else left via death or the Wall), and replaced with Sandor "Fuck Chivalry and Oaths" Clegane, has burned all our bridges with him lol. This is one thing I'm cool with not subverting Joffrey's authority on tbh.
Oh god. This is legit worrying. Like I'm sure Varys could spirit the kids away even with Cersei there if he really wanted to, but yeeesssshh. I guess we'd have to rely on Baelish not wanting to give the creepy Eunuch more ground lmao. *insert Mr Burns germ crowding meme here* Man pity we don't have loyal KG or any personal knights to protect the two of them.
[X] Plan: Cersei of King's Landing
Honestly it's making me think of Lpuis the Sun King shenanigans, where people would fight over the right to play in the daily card games or to watch the King wake up.
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I look forward to the point where the high septon is enough of an ally that creating the sparrows is a good idea and we end up as Cersei, Defender of the Faith with our army of loyal fanatics.
- Location
- United States
I really do think we're being too cautious with the Goldcloaks. We expanded them for the explicit purpose of bolstering our numbers, and using them as ablative fodder for a Crownland host while still having enough to keep KL garrisoned is perfectly within expectations.
Rykker can probably still win despite being outnumbered - he's on the defensive and knows the territory personally. Still, I'd be less tense about the outcome if he had a numerical advantage (and not having Cersei come along is just a missed opportunity).
Rykker can probably still win despite being outnumbered - he's on the defensive and knows the territory personally. Still, I'd be less tense about the outcome if he had a numerical advantage (and not having Cersei come along is just a missed opportunity).
While I'm sure Cersei would contribute something to the war(amazing what quests like this make me say) missing out on both Olenna Tyrell and the iron bank rep would be a brutal loss diplomatically, not to even mention leaving the capitol to whatever chaos the small council would get up to.
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
The sole reason to go with the army would be to keep Renfred honest and on-side, under the Regent's personal oversight (and potentially sharing a tent--it is ASOIAF, after all). As it is, he could potentially double-deal with Caern and we're gambling that the favor we've already shown our new Master of Ships (appointing him to that role and immediately expanding his bailiwick by funding construction of a maritime fleet) is sufficient to prevent him from doing that. Given that we are keeping the Goldcloaks in the capital, however, and the strength of King's Landing's walls, I doubt he would see much profit in joining the pretender: five thousand men behind walls are more than sufficient to force an army nineteen thousand strong into a siege rather than an assault. Moreover, locking down into a siege while Stannis has an unaccounted-for army that could disrupt it (he wants the throne for himself, after all) would be a bad play.
I agree that in terms of available actions we'd be giving up far too much opportunity and necessity by joining the army, and leaving our enemies in the capital *cough*Varys*cough* far too free a hand.
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GildedSergeant
Tarnished Gold and Rattling Bones
- Location
- Over There
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Something interesting that I noticed is that house Celtigar has sided with Caern, but in cannon they sided with Stannis. Once we defeat this pretender, we can probably make Stannis weaker than cannon (at least by a bit) by taking hostages to prevent them from defecting over to his side.
- Location
- behind you
I really don't know if a few hostages is enough, they literally betrayed the crown and joined a targaryen nobody(not even joined THE stannis) and in canon claw isle is rich, apparently they even have a valyrian steel axe.
Seeing that we kinda forgot about ice, at the very least we could take some of that money and trophie axe.
Have we asked lord rykker for his opinion about this plan by the way, I kinda like the guy but for what we know the only thing he knows about war is something he read in a book once.
Turn 2 - Visitors
- Location
- Germany
Turn 2 - Visitors
The Small Council chamber was almost forlorn these days. Pycelle sat in his customary spot, ink and parchment ready in case any messages needed to be sent. Most of the time he was half asleep, though that had changed. Now it had become his role to report on troop movements as they occurred, writing letters back and forth to keeps across the Crownlands and Riverlands to stay appraised what army had been sighted where. Next to him, Varys was, as ever, sitting behind a pile of letters and reports. Every day it grew a tiny bit higher as chaos spread across Westeros and recently even Essos.
And that was it. That was her Smallest Council. The Master of Ships turned general. The Master of Coin made an envoy to the Vale. The Kingsguard all away in the field. No Master of Law had been named. The chain of the Hand was still offered to Edmure Tully, who so far had not answered the latest letter on the topic. Even the High Septon was still on his journey to Oldtown. Cersei could scarcely remember the last time the man had even left the city, let alone the Crownlands. Cersei drew her shawl tighter. The castle had become quiet and cold lately. As if it was sleeping. Or waiting for life to return to it.
Though it fitted the guest she was entertaining that day. Dressed in muted dark colors, the rail thin man with Valyrian features looked almost like a ghost as he stepped into the chambers. As if one stiff wind could knock him over. But despite the appearance of Derryn Galarys, the representative of the Iron Bank was far from harmless. Baelish had warned her before his departure to be wary of whoever would come in response to her letter. Once the doors were closed behind him, he bowed deeply and with such precise motions that he seemed not at all fitting for a banker. If anything, he reminded Cersei of the Stark girls blade instructor.
"The Iron Bank extends it's condolence for your loss, Queen Dowager Baratheon-Lannister." Thankfully he had his face still firmly held towards the ground and could not see the twitch in Cerseis face. "At the same time, the key-holders appreciated your correspondence. We are not used to the Iron Throne being this forward and cooperative when servicing it's debts."
"Thank you, Master Galarys," she replied with a tone of sincerity that could not have been more fake. "My late husband may not have felt the urgency to address these matters, but the new king and I are different. Lannisters always pay their debts after all."
The thin man slunk onto the chair brought for him and began to lay out books and parchments from his satchel. "An admirable trait. Even if some may say that it is easy to make such promises when the family owns the largest gold mines in the known world." He chuckled very quietly. "May I assume then that House Lannisters wealth will be available to service the crowns debts?"
Cerseis thoughts immediately went to her father. The man who actually could decide over her families riches and would be quite cross if she did even so much as imply that a single mote of gold dust from Casterly Rock would go towards paying off Roberts whoring and drinking debts. "Potentially," she hedged with some unease. Her father had not answered her letters either and with every day that passed without a word from him, she began to wonder if she had gone too far.
If the Braavosi banker noticed her feelings, she could not tell. He certainly did not seem to be paying much attention to her as he thumbed through a ledger. "As you may not yet know, the crowns currently owed debt to the Iron Bank has reached a stately 1.9 million golden dragons. This represents both loans taken from the Iron Bank directly, and loans whose titles we have recently bought from some Tyroshi traders that wished to urgently liquidate their assets. I presume that you will not be able to service the whole sum at once?"
The urge to have a cup of wine to grasp grew considerably as he spoke. Nearly two million dragons. And that was not even half the debts she knew of, let alone whatever obligations lurked in Littlefingers books. "I'm sure we can find an arrangement that is agreeable to both of us."
How do you intend to start payments to the Iron Bank? Each method chosen brings it's own problems. Choosing more than one increases the pay-outs to the Iron Bank and will please them.
[] [Debt] You can't risk these measures right now. Try to tide them over with pretty words and grand promises.
[] [Debt] Pledge some share of the income from Casterly Rock. Your father will have to accept it.
[] [Debt] Raise taxes on the Lords Paramount. Including those in active rebellion.
[] [Debt] Increase taxes and tariffs on the Crownlander houses.
[] [Debt] Collect a wartime tax from the smallfolk.
[] [Debt] Levy a tax on convents, cloisters, septs and all other sundry possessions of the Faith.
[] [Debt] Heavily tax sin and indulgences like prostitution and alcohol.
[] [Debt] Take out more loans from the Faith.
[] [Debt] You can't risk these measures right now. Try to tide them over with pretty words and grand promises.
[] [Debt] Pledge some share of the income from Casterly Rock. Your father will have to accept it.
[] [Debt] Raise taxes on the Lords Paramount. Including those in active rebellion.
[] [Debt] Increase taxes and tariffs on the Crownlander houses.
[] [Debt] Collect a wartime tax from the smallfolk.
[] [Debt] Levy a tax on convents, cloisters, septs and all other sundry possessions of the Faith.
[] [Debt] Heavily tax sin and indulgences like prostitution and alcohol.
[] [Debt] Take out more loans from the Faith.
The sky was a dull silver, the sun a distant light barely forcing itself through the clouds as a slightly brighter stretch in the covering above. It would probably rain soon and who knew when it might stop. Hearth Seasons was nearly there and even this degree of sunshine would soon be precious. A lousy day for a meeting in a gazebo, but Olenna Tyrell had insisted to meet in the gardens among the rose bushes. Nothing lost by indulging her, or so Cersei had thought. Now though? She would have preferred another sight and a quieter place.
The seagulls were screaming overhead and in the distance, the white birds were fighting with the crows and the Silent Sisters. On the other bank of the Blackwater, clearly visible from this portion of the castle garden, a feast had been prepared for them. The high tide had swept in bodies wearing yellow-back Stags, white-blue swordfish or burning hearts on their tunics. They were ripe. Bloating already. Septons were praying over them as the Silent Sisters collected them from the beach like driftwood to be stacked into carts. Sometimes the wind turned just enough to carry the smell all the way to Cersei. It should have bothered her, but somehow even this smell could not stir much emotion in her.
"Not a good sign the Seven are sending us. Or maybe it is? No Tyrell or Lannister tabbards among them." How an old woman and her two guards, who were each the size of a wardrobe, could be so quite eluded Cersei. "It's been a while," the matriarch of House Tyrell continued as she carefully sat down on the thick pillows laid out on the stone bench.
It took a while to even sort out the old memories. "After the Greyjoy Rebellion I think? No. You were briefly here when your grandson was courting one my ladies in waiting." Unsaid was that Cersei had tried to dodge the Queen of Thorns as much as she could. She could not stand Olennas sharp tongue on the best of days. And these were not he best of days.
"Oh, don't mention that. Only old crones have married grandsons." A serving girl interrupted here, putting two goblets of spiced Lannisport wine on the table before excusing herself again. Though Olenna barely acknowledged her, instead studying Cersei openly. "You are looking a bit under the weather my dear."
Instinctively Cersei drew herself together and sat straighter, even though it felt tiring to do so. She would not allow herself to look weak in front of the wrinkly hag. "Just the matters of state and and war. 'A king should never sit easy' as Aegon the Conqueror said and that includes their regents." The quote had burned itself into her mind ever since she had to sit on the bloody throne for half a day, perched like a hen on an egg, because Dragonriders apparently thought backrests were signs of a weak character. Having to sit perfectly still for so long did not mix well with her short nights.
The small old woman just scoffed in return. "I know quite well what you mean. At least your boy should grow up one day. Mine just got taller and wider." She toasted Cersei with her cup, then drank for the first time, making some appreciative noises afterwards.
Cersei toasted back and savored her own cup. "The taste of the Westerlands to your liking?"
"Quite so. Everyone else always tries to put me in a good mood with Arbor Gold for some reason. Or the sourest Dornish Red they can find, as if that would ward me off or something." She leaned over conspiratorially. "Never tell the Dornish this, but I've taken a liking to the Ullers vineyards."
They both laughed lightly, though it took a lot of effort to make it sound sincere on Cerseis part. Was it genuine from Olennas side? She did not recall getting along with the Queen of Thorns even the slightest bit. The Tyrells were all but banished from Roberts court for having fought for the Mad King and putting Storms End under siege. And now? Now they would be family, if all things worked out. The silence stretched and Cersei felt it was time to talk about the reason for this meeting. "Have you thought about my offer?"
The Queen of Thorns leaned back and slowly drained her cup. "I have. Extensively so. Had not many better things to do on the Rose Road. Your offer is welcome, but I am just the harridan of the house, not the head of house Tyrell. There are some conditions that would have to be met."
"Such as?" Cerseis hand clenched around the goblet.
"My oaf of a son has made other promises and while I am willing to break them, my family will not accept this without an assurance." Olenna shook her had and chuckled all of the sudden. "Maybe I am a crone. Just hear me ramble. Well. My condition is a royal pardon for Renly Baratheon if he bends the knee. Simple as that."
The words finally managed to pierce through Cerseis lethargy and got her wide awake. Awake enough that she had to clamp down on her mood to not snarl at the shriveled Reachwoman. "A pardon for an usurper and rebel?"
"Oh, don't give me that. You all but pardoned Eddard Stark and he marched soldiers into the throne room. Once you strip away the good looks and affable manners, Renly is just an impulsive idiot. Just like your late husband." The Queen of Thorns was watching Cersei like a hawk, likely for any sign of a rise at her words. There was nothing to be found though and Olenna smirked in return. "Give me some time and I can make him kneel. Pardon him, and I will agree to wed your Joffrey and my Margaery."
"I thought you were just the harridan of the house?" Cersei stalled, trying to come up with a response in a hurry.
"Of course, girl," she replied in an amused tone. "And you are just the regent."
How do you respond to Olennas offer? What fate do you plan for Renly Baratheon?
[] [Marriage] Agree to her condition. The levies of the Reach are worth the price.
[] [Marriage] A pardon is too much, but you are willing to accept exiling him to Essos.
[] [Marriage] Promise her only that Renly will be allowed to take the Black if he stands down, just as Eddard Stark did.
[] [Marriage] There will be no terms or favors. Either she agrees to the marriage or not.
[] [Marriage] Something else: (Write-In)
[] [Marriage] Agree to her condition. The levies of the Reach are worth the price.
[] [Marriage] A pardon is too much, but you are willing to accept exiling him to Essos.
[] [Marriage] Promise her only that Renly will be allowed to take the Black if he stands down, just as Eddard Stark did.
[] [Marriage] There will be no terms or favors. Either she agrees to the marriage or not.
[] [Marriage] Something else: (Write-In)
AN: I'll be clear here that the further you deviate from her terms, the more likely that she will reject your counter-offer. Other forms of bribery, like making Mace the Hand or similar, will weigh a lot less than offering a good bargain for Renly.
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Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Honestly, Renly is only a threat as a symbol and alternative but he himself is not so special that leaving him alive would be a disastrous move.
- Location
- Where beer flows and men chunder
We should agree to Olenna's request - on the condition that Renly be our guest at King's Landing for the duration of the war - he'll have freedom of movement around King's Landing and all the liberties of his rank, but with a Lannister guard detachment to follow him. When the war is over, provided he hasn't tried anything, he'll be free to return to rule the Stormlands once more.
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- Location
- United States
The Silence from everyone involved in the Riverland mess is nothing less than utterly stressful. We can only wait and see how it pans out, at this point - our die has been cast.
The good news is that Braavos is our only really dangerous creditor. House Lannister is the largest holder of debt, but not an active danger, and the Faith has been aligned (so far). We just need to keep them assured that the money is still coming, and that backing a pretender in Westeros is not worth their time. Best case scenario, we also get a working partner to help handle future Essosi difficulties.
This ain't gonna be popular, but we've been working hard on PR thus far, and can justify it as a pious act. Seems like the least painful option to ensure the Iron Bank is placated.
Damn, this is a tough one. Her comparison to Eddard isn't quite appropriate, though - sending someone to the Wall is hardly a light tap on the wrist, and I'd imagined a similar fate for Renly.
I'd already intended to offer Master of Laws for Garlan - honestly, if the Tyrells are marrying into the royal line, they need a seat at the Small Council regardless.
I think this could be a palatable compromise - this avoids killing or Walling Loras's lover, but given Renly's proclivities, we don't need to worry about him founding a new Blackfyre-esk branch of pretenders. Combo it with a position for Garlan and I believe it could be sold.