- Location
- Arcadia
Hm, out-of-character, perhaps reviewing Il Principe would be advisable, try to answer the question of what Machiavelli would counsel Cersei to do in her situation.
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Zimmerwald1915
Revolutionary Defeatist
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Rule 3: Be Civil - Referring to the players of a quest as "the dregs of incompetents and trolls" is not civil
We are learning, that the trouble with a mixed quest-gsrp is that the gsrp side hoovers up all the most enthusiastic and savvy players, leaving the quest with the dregs of incompetents and trolls.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM6kMHH-G64
"Any man who needs to say 'I am the King' is no King at all."
Finding yourself in a horrible situation of your own making and thinking the solution is more murder despite that arguably double downing is what got you into this mess and not even having the resources to do it if you wanted?
Man, you guys are really are doing a great job at copying Cersei's mindset
No, she didn't realize how batshit insane Cersei was that she would start a Civil War against her father for what was it? Not unquestionably following her orders?
Yeah, she's definitely gonna go try to make a deal with Tywin b/c she, like everyone else, thinks you're insane b/c you neglected to actually tell anyone what your plan is other than "just trust me bro, I'm the Queen".
GildedSergeant
Tarnished Gold and Rattling Bones
- Location
- Over There
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Well, I think this kinda goes to show how much we beefed it with the Tully gambit. This might still be salvageable if Robb agrees to out idea and evacuates in time, or if Lysa sees Tywin attacking Robb and realizes she was wrong (seems rather unlikely). If only we knew Tywin was leaving Harrenhal we could've ferried Robb's mean across the bay of crabs to attack harrenhal, but oh well.
Actually, on that note, Tywin is seen planning a route from Saltpans to the Bloody Gate, indicating that he plans to move his men through through there. If he were going by land, he would probably follow the Kings Road and then the High Road, entirely bypassing Saltpans. Which seems to indicate that he will instead go east to Maidenpool, and cross the Bay of Crabs to Saltpans before progressing - perhaps he has ships and that is a faster route? Or maybe he just wants to divert to Saltpans to loot for supplies. Either way, he may have quite the surprise on his hands if he finds our fleet already in the bay and Robb waiting in Saltpans, depending on how the timing plays out.
Actually, on that note, Tywin is seen planning a route from Saltpans to the Bloody Gate, indicating that he plans to move his men through through there. If he were going by land, he would probably follow the Kings Road and then the High Road, entirely bypassing Saltpans. Which seems to indicate that he will instead go east to Maidenpool, and cross the Bay of Crabs to Saltpans before progressing - perhaps he has ships and that is a faster route? Or maybe he just wants to divert to Saltpans to loot for supplies. Either way, he may have quite the surprise on his hands if he finds our fleet already in the bay and Robb waiting in Saltpans, depending on how the timing plays out.
We should triple the amount of guards around Margaery. Tell her that we're doing it for her own protection since the king was almost assassinated twice (which is technically not a lie since we do need her alive), but the real reason will be to make sure Olenna doesn't try to sneak her favorite grandchild out of the Red Keep and betray us.
Oh, and next turn, we should definitely send a letter to Tyrion explaining our logic, so he doesn't think we're crazy.
- Location
- United States
Well, as the guy who came up with the Tully Gambit, the thought at the time was that we didn't want to fight a two-front war, because we assumed Renly would have the Tyrells on his side and we couldn't count on cannon going down the same path of handing them over to our side neatly. Bluntly speaking, I didn't think we'd start a war with Tywin over it, nor did I believe we'd be able to snag an alliance with the Tyrells (although that happened because of said disaster).
As it stands in retrospect? Yeah, we should've just shut up and let Tywin cook.
As it stands in retrospect? Yeah, we should've just shut up and let Tywin cook.
Trust the gambit guys, one more shade of the evening and we will get epic magic haxx instead of drug filled delusions.
Addendum: Edmure Tully canonically defeated Tywin Lannister at the Battle of the Fords therefore the Tully Gambit is about to pull a coup de grâce of never seen before basedness if we let Edmure slip his leash and fight him head on, trust the gambit.
Addendum: Edmure Tully canonically defeated Tywin Lannister at the Battle of the Fords therefore the Tully Gambit is about to pull a coup de grâce of never seen before basedness if we let Edmure slip his leash and fight him head on, trust the gambit.
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- Location
- Germany
It's a fact that 99% of Shade drinkers quit right before they receive a world changing epiphany that will make it all worth it.
I will one up you on the madness. Remember how Shireen has greyscale?
This is a quote from the books I found on the wiki: "The maesters may believe what they wish. Ask a woods witch if you would know the truth. The grey death sleeps, only to wake again. The child is not clean!"
I propose that we have Qyburn extract the greyscale sickness from Shireen and use it to poison all of the wells around Harrenhall. Let us add another chapter to the Curse of Harrenhall.
- Location
- Arcadia
Hm, Cersei may want to finally take that intrigue action to establish her own network of spies and contacts.
Otherwise, well, one is curious to see the results of an action to drink as much Shade of the Evening as possible.
If Cersei is going to lose, then one might as well cut loose and have as much fun as possible before the end.
Otherwise, well, one is curious to see the results of an action to drink as much Shade of the Evening as possible.
If Cersei is going to lose, then one might as well cut loose and have as much fun as possible before the end.
Hmmm...things are different here than in canon. Assuming the Tysha incident did happen, there is a small possibility that Jaime might have confessed to Cersei what actually happened when he was drunk. If so, that would be very useful indeed if we're trying to get Tyrion on our side. @Azel In the Azel timeline, did the Tysha incident happen and if so, does Cersei know the truth behind it?
- Location
- Who knows?
Yeah no, Cersei has negative credibility so this wouldn't help even if she did know. This Tyrion has not been thrown to the wolves by his family and is actually receiving some of the validation he's sought his entire life so even if somehow Cersei had concrete proof, even odds on Tyrion ignoring it.
I wonder how Cersei siding with the Tullys looks on the outside? Is there any rumour going around that she is in love with Edmure Tully or something?
- Location
- Germany
The Targs at least are making jokes to that effect.
Interlude - The Lost Hound
- Location
- Germany
Interlude - The Lost Hound
Walking through the war camp, the Hound was certain how the war was going, even without anyone deigning to share anything with him. The Northmen and Rivermen eyed him with suspicion and hostility, more so than even King Joffrey who was leading the way, and yet it could not mask what else he saw in their faces. Defeat. Not in full just yet, just the first signs of it. The stew pots they walked past were filled with thin broths. Clusters of men with different tabards eyed each other warily. And no one was in charge. Not really. For all that the knights and lords tried to keep order and some activity, the men had already begun to linger around whenever they could, using work details to harass each other.
This host was falling apart before his eyes, one tiny bit at a time, and from the worried glances he noticed being traded among the nobles, he was not the only one who noticed. Only Joffrey seemed still in denial about it. He still thought that if Robb Stark just let him give a rousing speech, then the smallfolk would fight with bravery and pride for their king. Hopefully, if he actually tried that, Greenfield would have the good sense to fetch the horses right away. That would not be a pleasant lesson for the brat. Not that he really ever had learned anything any other way.
So many years of his life, the Hound had watched over the cruel little brat. See him torment his little brother and sister just as Gregor had. Cersei had picked the wrong Clegane to be his minder. And yet. The little shit was king now. No more Cersei to hide behind. No more Robert to try and impress. Somehow, that had changed him. Suddenly there was no one that could make the consequences of his actions go away. No one who would force the people to be nice to him. There was still that bit of a sadistic tyrant in the boy, but he had learned to bury it well enough to fool even those who should have known him better. Joffrey had really meant it when he said he would rather be loved than feared. Maybe in another life, it would have been enough to make him a decent king. Maybe in another life, he would never had felt the need to change at all.
It mattered little though as they walked through the mud of the camp towards the large tent with the direwolf and a black trout banner held up above it. If things kept going as they were, he would be king in name only while the Old Lion still drew breath. And maybe not even that. News from the Vale made a mockery of the Small Councils dismissal of the Targaryen pretenders. The Hound could easily remember the times when Robert was ranting in his drunken moods about becoming a sellsword in Essos to fight and whore away his days instead of stewing in the Red Keep. Now he was half considering to suggest that to Joffrey. He had a choice when they were fleeing Maidenpool. They could have taken a ship to Pentos instead. Maybe Wickenden had been the wrong call after all.
An old man with black tabbard and a white sun on it stood beside the flap of the tent. The king passed, though the man pushed the Hound back, or tried to. "Not you, Clegane. Only the boy."
"Where the king goes, his Lord Commander goes," he said in a low tone, while wracking his mind if he was supposed to know this cunt.
"Let him in, Lord Karstark," a young man called from within the tent. There was a moment where the old man seemed unsure if he should actually do as he was told, but then his arm fell and he gruffly gestured with his head for the Hound to get in.
The Hound tried his best to look like a proper Lord Commander in response. By raising his nose at Lord Karstark and arrogantly strutting into the tent as Barristan used to do when annoyed. Inside, it was sparsely furnished. A chest with open lid containing maps. A table some were strewn on. A few chairs. Not much frippery, unlike what he was used to from Lannister camps. The number of people was also small. Robb Stark, looking a few years older than when the Hound had last seen him even though it was not nearly that long ago. And an older man who looked far too Tully to be anyone beside the Blackfish. Everyone was tensely staring at each other, each man hoping for another to make the first move.
The Hound just sighed and gestured to Joffrey. "His majesty, Joffrey, first of his name, King of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men. Protector of Faiths." He really had to fight the urge to say 'and so on'.
It been a bloody fortnight for them to actually invite the boy into their camp formally instead of housing the kingsguard and him in a nearby inn. Everyone knew why. But not, they finally had seen sense. Brynden Tully was the first to his knees and Robb Stark followed shortly after. "We swear our fealty to you, my king," the Stark boy said through gritted teeth. "We offer our loyalty and ask for your protection in return."
In the corner of Joffreys mouth, a smirk was forming, but the Hound could see it twitch and shiver as the boy fought it down. Instead of gloating as he would have done in the past, he tried for an even tone. "Your pledges are accepted and my aid you shall receive."
"Took you long enough," the Hound groused from the side, checking a side-table for something to drink that wasn't stale water. A small keg of beer and a few mugs were all he found.
As the two of them rose again, Joffrey had already stepped towards the table and looked over the figurines placed there. The Hound joined them shortly after with a mug, earning him an annoyed look from the Stark boy. Joffrey spoke up before he could say anything. "Tell me, how is the situation?"
The Blackfish tapped the map in response, directly onto the Bloody Gate. "My niece Lysa is still refusing us entry into the Vale, claiming our presence is a plot by your majesty to take the Vale from her. And now Tywin Lannsiters outriders have been spotted north of Saltpans, so we will likely be accosted by his host soon. We were debating how to proceed, especially in the light of a letter by the Queen Regent."
He passed over a letter with broken royal see, underwritten by Cerseis hand. While Joffrey read it, the Hound still looked at the map. There were few options to get away from Tywin. Robb Stark silently out a route through the mountains. "If your majesty confirms the Queen Regents offer of safe passage, we would take this pass to the east and her ships in the harbor of Wickenden." The Hound couldn't help but snort at the irony and took a good gulp from his mug.
"Of course," Joffrey exclaimed with the absolute certainty he only ever showed when he actually had no idea what was going on. "The Queen Regent speaks for the King after all."
Tully didn't like that response one bit. "You'd be abandoning the Riverlands to the..." He caught himself at the last moment. "To the Westerlanders. The men won't like this."
"They will have to come to terms with it," the Stark boy replied with little confidence. "We don't have the men uncle. We can't fight Tywin in the field. If I return to the North and have the time to raise a new host..."
He trailed off while the Hound snorted once more. "Sure. The Old Lion will just sit around in Harrenhal and wait for you to bring a new army together. Maybe you can drum up a few more goat herders and woodcutters. That sure will teach the heavy horse of the Westerlands what is what."
"Maybe Lord Karstark was right about letting you in," Robb bit back. "If the king was not under threat of murderers, I'd have half a mind to send you away, Clegane."
The fire burned hot. He felt it on his skin that night. Could still feel it on his scars. Flames rushing out of the study. Sandor breathed in. It was months ago. And yet he could still hear the assassin yell at Jaime before lunging for him. Why had he yelled? Who was that man that Jaime seemed to have known? The Hound breathed out. It did not matter.
"Let the kings health be my concern, Stark." The Hounds eyes drifted back to the dot of Wickenden on the map. "Is Lord Waxley going to help us? We didn't approach him as I have no idea who he is loyal to."
"To the Eyrie, last I know," Brynden Tully spoke while grabbing some empty parchment. "Though that does not mean much these days since he is stuck on this side with us. He still owes me a favor or two. I will write him a letter to house you and the Stark host."
Robb turned to him as if struck. "Uncle?"
"The Rivermen are not going to follow you," he said quietly while beginning to write. "You go north and defend you home. Raise another army if you can. I will try to protect what is left of mine."
AN: Targ stuff takes a bit longer this turn.
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Lysa is the Blackfishs niece not sister?
- Location
- Germany
Fixed. Must have crept in from Dorne stuff.
Now the update. Seems like Joffrey is safe....Well safe he can be out in the field anyway. Robb very much willing to use the ships to go back north. Blackfish doesn't look like he's gonna leave or at least go north. So curious what the Blackfish is trying to do? Can't exactly face Tywin but maybe start doing a hit and run campaign in the Riverlands?
Last Chapter pre discussion:
We must find Joffrey lets send Lord Tarly to patrol the Crownlands, hmm... Robb seems in a pinch lets send him some ships while we deal with the pirates too.
Tywin Interlude reaction: Glad we offered these ships to Robb and Co.
Hound Interlude: Well that is unexpected turn of events. I was half of mind that somehow the Hound and Joffrey were with Arya, running away from Tywin.
We must find Joffrey lets send Lord Tarly to patrol the Crownlands, hmm... Robb seems in a pinch lets send him some ships while we deal with the pirates too.
Tywin Interlude reaction: Glad we offered these ships to Robb and Co.
Hound Interlude: Well that is unexpected turn of events. I was half of mind that somehow the Hound and Joffrey were with Arya, running away from Tywin.
If the Riverlander host went to king's landing with us they could have combined forces with their liege Lord Edmure and had a shot at taking Tywin on with us, Don't really get why a man like Bryden would commit suicide over the more sensible option, one is guaranteed death the other is maybe death.
Edit: Wait we did offer to let them do that right?
Edit: Wait we did offer to let them do that right?