Shepard Quest Mk V, Base of Operations (ME/MCU)
- Thread starter Esbilon
- Start date
Basically, but the point is that the Reapers can actually afford to send an armada that matches the amount of geth ships that came with Sovereign. Heck, they could likely afford to send 10 times that. And as that clip shows, they can arrive in perfect formation and not collide with each other or anything like that. There is NOTHING stopping the reapers from sending a huge fleet that is utterly unstoppable.
Citadel falls easily to that. And after that, relay network goes down. Every species is trapped, and the reapers have essentially won the war right there. Nothing left after that except the cleanup where the reapers activate specific relays and harvest the helpless species and planets one by one. Just as happened with the Protheans (who were considerably more advanced and powerfull).
The only reason this did not happen in the game is that gameplay reasons required the reapers to be idiots and not do this. It kind of sucks when the bad guy is artificially made into a moron. Thats why I hope it won't happen in this quest. As has been pointed out, it would not necessarily be instant game over in this quest, since Revy might well be smart enough to hack the relays and reactivate them or create her own that are not controlled by the citadel or such.
Van Ropen
Angry, angry about elves.
Never heard that one before, was that brought up in a comic or something?
Huh?
The reapers have not invaded because the protheans altered the Keepers in such a way that they no longer obey the Reapers. Sovereign has actually sent the signal that was supposed to summon the invasion many years ago. Heck, there are hints that Sovereign might have been behind the Rachni wars (the queen in the game talks of "sour note" influencing the rest of the Rachni, implying indoctrination) , which means the invasion was supposed to start a LONG time ago.
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
It was also implied that the leviathans tried to breed the Rachni as their own personal army, and citadel discovered them before they were ready, so they decided to call this cycle a bust and use this as a test run.
I always thought that the Reapers destroyed/engineered the destruction of the Rachni because they didn´t fit into their world view of organics vs. synthetics. Had the Rachni achieved galactic supremacy the Reaper mandate would have become useless since such a race has no need for an synthetic industry/technology. Add to that the similarity between the Leviathans and the Rachni and you could argue that the destruction of the rachni was self defense in the eyes of the reaper.
(That is of course mostly speculation on my part, don´t think the ME writers ever really thought about it)
And ME3 was full of plotholes (beginning with the fact that they never stated a reason why the liberation of earth was more important than the rest of the galaxy/ only when they lost the citadel that reason appeared) and Ebslion should probably only take it as a source of inspiration.
And for the Citadel, like others said it had a massive defense fleet, the Reapers probably had no idea what happened to the Keepers/how to fix them and suppressing the industrial centers was more important. (and it becomes supposedly invulnerable if its closes its arms)
Leviathans are another possibility, though its a bit unclear how they could have maintained control of the Rachni armies considering their form of mind control is not permanent.
Regardless, its irrelevant to the main question. The Vigil VI made it pretty clear that Sovereign has already tried to start the invasion. Whether it was decades or centuries before is unclear. The collectors are basically slaves that only became in any way important once Sovereign was destroyed and they were the only Reaper force that remained active in the galaxy.
Van Ropen
Angry, angry about elves.
Why would the Rachni have no need for synthetic industry or technology? The Rachni were a technical race like any other, they made starships, ect
It doesn't matter how huge the defense fleet of the Citadel is, a couple Reaper dreadnoughts will obliterate it. Remember, this is the first attack of the war. Nothing prevents them from suppressing those industrial centers immediately afterwards - and hell, turning off the Relays plays merry havoc with them already.
Was the liberation of Earth ever a major concern? I mean I seem to recall that Shepard was mostly gathering forces and resources for the Deus Ex Machina rather than Earth in particular. Though it has been a while, and I only played through ME3 once.
Those massive defense fleets would be easy fodder for the full reaper armada. The reapers would lose much less forces by going after the citadel and deactivating the relays. Especially if they acted smart and lured some of those fleets away by sending a few decoys to attack the homeworlds.
Vigil also implies that the reapers do know what happened to the keepers, and that they probably planned to replace the keepers with the Geth (synthetics don't change/evolve the way keepers did).
As for the invulnerability, the reapers BUILT the damn thing. I am pretty sure they know every single vulnerability the Citadel has. Closing the arms would not stop the reapers from taking it over.
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1. Their an insect race controlled by an Hivemind, they have no need for AI controlled workers/drones since they can easily do that on their own.
2. The question is if the Reapers can still turn the Relays off, even if they manage to capture the citadel.
And the wiki states that it wasn´t the Leviathans who first used the Rachni as private armies but the Protheans so there is that.
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Yes. The reapers cannot control the Citadel via commands transmitted to the keepers, but they can do so by having a reaper directly interface with the citadel and "ASSUME DIRECT CONTROL". Sovereign does just that in ME1 infact, and would have won if Shepard had not managed to stop it.
Please remember, the Citadel is something that was BUILT by the reapers. They KNOW how everything on that station works, because they designed all of it. Just as they built and designed the relay network itself.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
It's inference based on two data point, one before the the collector started mass abduction they would pay high sums (in tech) for examples of space faring life that was an outlier, then when we get a look in their bases we see that they're conducting experiments on huskification, with a few notable failed experiments indicating that huskification was manually refined by the collectors and that the refinement was ongoing as of ME2.
a) if that is the case why didn´t they deactivate the network when they acquired the citadel.
b) The Reapers are not omniscient, they have no knowledge about how much the races were able to change their systems. They know that for the first time in millennia somebody change the original plan and that somebody was able to reach their secret layer in the center of the galaxy. What they don´t know is how Shepard accomplished those goals.
So in my eyes its believable that they overestimate our capabilities/are unsure if they can fix the citadel.
c)If the Reapers could have curmbstomped everybody at the same time, and you are saying they could have, then the question remains why they didn´t do so and instead sieged Palaven and waited so long till they attacked Thessia.
While thats true I think, its only being done because the invasion is not happening. I would assume that while Sovereign was around, he was either controlling the collectors, or working with Harbinger as they tried to find a way to open the citadel relay. Trying to make stronger husks and so on is only necessary since the Protheans screwed the reapers over bad by altering the keeper signals.
So its only being done because the invasion has failed. If the reapers could have flooded to the galaxy through the citadel relay, minor husk and genetic experiments would have been utterly irrelevant. Those experiments are certainly not the reason why the invasion is delayed.
This, is the reason why the invasion has not already happened:
Check 9:50 to 10:20
Thats why there is no invasion.
Probably because if they had, Shepard could not have reached earth.
They are not omniscient no. However they do know how the citadel works because they built it. Given that its actually illegal to interfere with the keepers, and that no one knew that the main controls for the citadel were in the council chambers, I think its pretty damn clear that no one has investigated how the citadel works, so the relay system disabling thing should still be there.
I actually wonder if there is some very subtle indoctrination going on with the Citadel, where the place gently convinces those who stay there for long not to worry too much about how the place works. Because it is a bit bizarre that no one has ever started trying to pull the place apart to see how it all works, and have infact made it illegal to investigate (you cannot even make scans of the keepers).
Uhh, because its a computer game. This was already pointed out previously. Having the reapers act smart and strike directly at the citadel immediately would have meant there would not have been a game. Its hardly the first time the villain gets an idiot ball for gameplay reasons. Not even the first time in Mass Effect series.
What sparked this discussion was the point that with Revy being so intelligent, theres no reason to give the reapers of THIS quest the idiot ball. They can and should fight smart. Revy can still win.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
actually assuming that hiskification works on the same principles as reaperification it may actually be the reason, the reapers seem to take pride in the fact that they "preserve" species as reapers.
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
Keep in mind that Reaper invasions usually took place over a span of centuries, usually because they do a thorough mop up and gather resources before going back into hibernation. They'd have plenty of time to keep populations alive to experiment on after they won.
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
Yeah, Reapers fighting smart is a good thing from the story perspective. Because I think that this will be our endgame:What sparked this discussion was the point that with Revy being so intelligent, theres no reason to give the reapers of THIS quest the idiot ball. They can and should fight smart. Revy can still win.
Harbringer: FOOLISH HUMANS. NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU STRUGGLE THE END RESULT WILL BE THE-
Revy: YOU ARE STAGNANT CORPSE-SHIPS WHO DO NOT UNDERSTAND TRUE POWER. WE ARE PROMETHEUS, WHO STOLE THE FIRE FROM THE GODS, AND DELIVERED IT INTO THE HANDS OF THE PEOPLE. WE ARE REBECCA 'REVY' SHEPARD. AND YOUR CYCLE ENDS HERE.
Harbringer: WE ADMIT THAT YOU ARE AN UNIQUE ANOMALY, SOMETHING THAT HASN'T HAPPENED IN ANY OF THE COUNTLESS CYCLES BEFORE. BUT YOU ARE STILL TOO LATE TO ASCEND US IN POWER, EVEN IF YOU HAVE DONE SO IN KNOWLEDGE. THE SABOTAGE THAT THE PROTHEANS MADE WILL BE ULTIMATELY MEANINGLESS, AND WE WILL ENSURE THAT THIS SCENARIO WILL NOT RISE AGAIN IN THE FOLLOWING CYCLES.
Revy: ...I HAVE TO ADMIT SOMETHING TOO.
Harbringer: ...YES?
Revy: THIS IS A LITTLE EMBARRASSING, BUT MY GREATEST WEAPON AGAINST YOU MAY END UP BEING ONE I CANNOT CLAIM TO HAVE INVENTED.
Harbringer: YOU MAY END QUITE MANY OF US WITH WHATEVER YOU ARE SPEAKING OFF, BUT OUR NUMBERS OUTMATCH YOU BY ORDERS OF MAGNITUDES. YOU CANNOT HOPE TO PREVAIL.
Revy: WE SHALL SOON SEE. OH, AND BY THE WAY, I HAVE A MESSAGE FROM SOMEONE TO YOU.
Harbringer: WHAT DO YOU SPEAK OFF?
Revy: OH, NOTHING MUCH. JUST SOMETHING FROM YOUR CREATORS AND IT GOES ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL.
Harbringer: ...HAX! WE CALL HAX!
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Van Ropen
Angry, angry about elves.
I like that idea a lot, it creates a good purpose for the Collectors to exist.
A) That's exactly what we are whining about, they should have. Gameplay/Story segregation that we can avoid here.
B) Sovereign actually did turn the Relays off at the end of ME1. Shepard turns them back on to let Hackett through. Obviously Sovereign knows what it is doing in that case.
C) Did you miss ME3? They were curbstomping the entire galaxy, simultaneously, while holding the idiot ball. The only reason things took as long as they did was so that Shepard had time to run around and do things...even then, how long does ME3 cover? A couple months?
You know....Sovereign actually had to get Saren to switch off the Mass Relays from Council room personally.
That means that a Reapers tentacles are too big to press the buttons....
Hah! Foiled by the need for posable thumbs!
......Okay, I'm kind of grasping for straws here, aren't I?
That means that a Reapers tentacles are too big to press the buttons....
Hah! Foiled by the need for posable thumbs!
......Okay, I'm kind of grasping for straws here, aren't I?
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
Considering how to get everyone else up to snuff we've been releasing and licensing and patenting our tech, I think the Reapers can equip their ground troops well enough. So we'll need to fight to keep indoctrinated out of the Citadel Council chambers.
No, he needed Saren to open up the Citadels arms. Once that happened he docked with it and started controlling everything directly. so damn hard to not say ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL
Van Ropen
Angry, angry about elves.
...what? Javik confirmed that the entire network shuts down.
With a full invasion, maybe. But at the time Sovereign was probably having difficulties getting into the system and he only really needed to keep the Serpent Nebula isolated, so he'd have prioritised shutting them down and then started work on figuring out how to activate the Citadel Relay. It'd be quicker and he could always shut down the entire network once the rest of the Reapers arrived.
Otherwise it becomes a little harder to explain how the Arcturus Fleet got there so quickly.