Well, just at a glance I can tell you that the numbers on that are mostly wrong.
No, they're carriers. Completely different class of ship.
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Shepard Quest Mk V, Base of Operations (ME/MCU)
- Thread starter Esbilon
- Start date
Van Ropen
Angry, angry about elves.
If we are going to start using random speculation, we should at least have it make sense. Alliance Cruisers that are almost the same size as Turian Dreadnoughts? What?
If we are using random non-canon sources, I would just go with this from fanfiction:
If we are using random non-canon sources, I would just go with this from fanfiction:
That is at least a means of classification that can be broadly applied.
- Location
- Lake superior, Minoc
CB shields are the top end of the tech it seems. Or as far as they can currently think, but what about angled fields? The shells don't hit a wall or bubble, but slanted field and bounce off into space? Could even add the CB trick of slapping the shells along that path. Lot safer then dozens of emitters spinning around.
- Location
- Budapest, Hungary
I think it is based on cutscenes.
He mostly got the sizes right, especially the ones, which were close to the Normandy.
Turian ships were mostly shown on the far shots.
Also they have supposedly more advanced shipbulsdin tachnlogy , and larger fleet than SA , so it is logical to build smaller, but more powerful ships, and more economical ships.
Since MAs generate qutie a lot waste heat, there is limit how powerful ones can be mounted on a ~1000m hull.
Technically Dreadnoghts are the ships with the long spinal accelerators and the avionic to operate them.
Cruisers shown in game featured uses similar hull design on a smaller scale.
I suspect, that SA cruisers are "almost not dreadnoughts", while turians make properly sized ones.
It is just like a Zumwalt class destroyer is larger than a Ticonderoga class cruiser.
Frigates had more distinct hull designs.
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Van Ropen
Angry, angry about elves.
I wouldn't rely on cutscenes for anything given how often they fail to maintain basic consistency.
Besides, how can you figure out what is close to the Normandy when things are thousands of kilometers apart in space, and we don't know how far apart they are?
I really doubt the SA could build "almost not dreadnoughts" for cruisers given how expensive that would make the navy.
Besides, how can you figure out what is close to the Normandy when things are thousands of kilometers apart in space, and we don't know how far apart they are?
I really doubt the SA could build "almost not dreadnoughts" for cruisers given how expensive that would make the navy.
- Location
- Budapest, Hungary
The financial calcs, that we are using for SA are just speculative as basing the ship sizes on cutscenes.
Bioware writers handwaved the economy of SA, and the fleet sizes are arbitrary. Every capital ship is expensive.
Van Ropen
Angry, angry about elves.
Of course the financial calcs are speculative, but we know that the Alliance is stretched thin. It doesn't make sense for them to make, if we can forgive the reference, "pocket battleships" when what they need is lots of ships for basic patrols against weak enemies.
...since when is a cruiser a capital ship?
...Why is this addressed to me?
Chargone
Invisable operator
- Location
- New Zealand
Well, heavies can be. Depends on the exact design and how they're used/grouped. And how you define a capital ship. (Also, battle-cruisers? Or are those more battleship-y than cruiser-y?) Light cruisers would certainly be pushing it though.
Van Ropen
Angry, angry about elves.
Battlecruisers were much closer to battleships than to cruisers.
Heavy Cruisers are important, but I don't think they were ever considered capital ships (just double checked, Wikipedia agrees for whatever that is worth - the term is actually rather vaguely defined), outside the heaviest few that they called pocket battleships.
Basically, a capital ship is something that defines a conflict. You need another capital ship to practically engage one - that definitely doesn't apply to light cruisers, and shouldn't to your average "line" cruiser either. Something large enough to mount the dreadnought shields that would put it on that level is effectively a battlecruiser.
More or less what I was taking about, in some cases a holographic effect is layered on top of a dark energy field making it be a color other then blue/purple.
Yay internet communication.
I doubt that KBs are elastic, which is part of what is needed for sloped or curved effects to matter.
Wiki on the subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sloped_armour
It not as good as people seem to think it is, or so says wiki.
Battlecruiser = Battleship guns + Cruiser Speed + Cruiser Armor, at least IRC my naval terms correctly. Given how effing fast ME ships can go (Hit, hit, most ships are nearly as fast as each other for combat speeds) I a more then willing to bet they aren't a thing as it would be silly to make a battleship (dreadnought) gun and then give it shitty armor/KBs. The main point of a battlecruiser is that it has the same firepower as a battleship. but has the same speed as a cruiser. Which for ME ships is basically all the dreadnoughts.
Though if you define battlecruiser as Cruiser Gun + Battleship shields + Cruiser speed, then you could say that they are a thing, they're usually called heavy cruisers.
Heavy cruisers are most likely considered capital ship in spacies (space navies?, space fleets?, star fleets?, meh w/e) other them the Asari, Salarian or Turian ones, due to the fact that trying to build a system that only had 7 capital ships would be dumb. Though when human showed up with their fancy "carrier" thingies that might have changed a bit.
It's pretty much impossible to have a dreadnaught main gun in any other ship than a dreadnaught. The Alliance's dreadnaughts have a 600 meter spinal gun in a 800 meter frame, wereas the Council fleets have a 800 meter spinal gun in a 1KM frame and the Geth have a 1KM spinal gun in 1220 meter frame.
They are basically a gun with ship built around it with extra ones for broadsides.
EDIT: You could technically have a battlecruiser once the Thanix gets built....one built to fit the Normandy is said to give it the firepower of a cruiser while retaining the 200 meter frame....going by that increase....I would say that swapping out a crusiers main gun for a Thanix of equal size could potentially give you a cruiser that has the firepower of a dreadnaught with all the mobility of a cruiser.
But then again, if you could do that, there's nothing stopping you from swapping out a dreadnaught's main gun for a Thanix, but that would probably require a year in a shipyard for the refit, which means you would probably be better off building another dreadnaught from the 'keel up' in the same fashion as that Volus dreadnaught.
.....Although it would be interesting to see what would happen when frigates get the firepower of cruisers, cruisers get the firepower of dreadnaughts and dreadnaughts get even more powerful.
They would probably have to change the firepower scale that they use.
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Where did you get those numbers?
Because according to the wiki the Everest Class (Humanity's Dreadnaught) is 888m long with an 800m mass accelerator.
Oh, found something interesting: http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Systems_Alliance#Mass_Effect:_Paragon_Lost
If this is considered canon, then it might be possible to have planet based kinetic barriers...I might watch the movie to see if that's what it means...
If this is considered canon, then it might be possible to have planet based kinetic barriers...I might watch the movie to see if that's what it means...
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Have I mentioned I fail at reading sometimes? My quote says I was right all along yet I somehow miss-read it as saying I was wrong. This is somehow more embarrassing then thinking I was wrong to begin with...
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...
I don't know why I thought the Everest was the newer one...
I mean it literally says the line above what I was reading:
My bad.
Still, where did you get those size numbers?
Yeah I just found it myself. It was actually you that was correct. I think I was getting confused with one of the other codexes that talk about the SA building an Everest class....
I think I got the numbers from somewhere else, which used the 'scale models' in Shepards room along with whats shown in the clips.
Still, it is pretty bizarre to have a ship that is exactly 888 meters long....I mean, it just leaves 88 meters at the back of the gun for compensators or what have you....
The Geth dreadnaught (if you use the scale models) is apparently 1190 meter long...http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Dreadnought#Dreadnoughts
What is interesting is that if you multiply 888 by 1.3 (to get 30%), you get 1,154 meters instead, unless the codex meant that it was 'above 30%' and didn't give the actual percentage.
Talking about the Alliance building Cruisers that are 'small dreadnaughts' - the same scale models have the Alliance Cruisers at 707 meters, while Turians have 500 meter ones and the Quarians have a 643 meter one.
Which kind of explains why I get confused with SAs cruisers and dreadnaughts when I see them on-screen.
......Which makes me wonder just how dedicated to ME do you need to be to able work out the size of warships from scale models on a computer screen?
Chargone
Invisable operator
- Location
- New Zealand
Problem: nothing says the scale models use the Same scale. Scale model just means all it's proportions and ratios match up to the real thing if you multiply them by the listed number. (Unless it actually says in the game when you look at them or something?)
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I think people automatically assume that it's around the 1:144 scale, that's usually the one that used for scale models of large objects such as sailing ships and mecha....
I get the impression that they aren't snap-together/glue and paint ones, but that's usually the one that's used.
Either that or 1:100 scale for sake of convenience, but I haven't seen any of those.
Anyone here a scale model hobbyist?
Well there is this which lists the various scales used for scale models.
So given the wildly differing sizes I wouldn't assume all the models use the same scale.
Hell looking at the picture it's pretty clear they are at very different scaling considering that the SR-2 is about the same size as Sovereign and the Destiny Ascension.
So given the wildly differing sizes I wouldn't assume all the models use the same scale.
Hell looking at the picture it's pretty clear they are at very different scaling considering that the SR-2 is about the same size as Sovereign and the Destiny Ascension.
Was bored so I decided to draft up a preliminary plan for when we get our next quarterly update. Any problems/suggestions/ideas?
Preliminary Plan for Next Quarter
Company Actions
[] Equip all security teams with Legionary suits (25x20x700k = 350m + 1,500 production)
[] Buy a set of Reconnaissance Drones (1m + 100k/quarter)
[] Begin work on establishing a Paragon Industries Facility on Elysium (4,879m + 236m/quarter + 900 production)
[] Build the 40TW ISAR for the collider project on Earth and sell it to them at cost.
Research Actions
[] Advanced Mass Effect Theory - 60d10+120 (98.85%)
[] Advanced Neural Implant - 60d10+115 (97.97%)
[] CASIE Implant - 60d10+120 (99.97%)
[] Flawless Blackboxing / FRM - 30d10+25+Overflow
Personal Actions
[] Spend time with family
[] Train Biotics with Rahna
We haven't really spent enough time with Revy's family, that wasn't training, recently and given that she would have just had her first breakup, even if it was a nice mutual one, she'd probably enjoy it.
Biotics because even if the ANI can do a lot of it for us it's still a good idea to know how to use them manually and because Space Magic!
Preliminary Plan for Next Quarter
Company Actions
[] Equip all security teams with Legionary suits (25x20x700k = 350m + 1,500 production)
[] Buy a set of Reconnaissance Drones (1m + 100k/quarter)
[] Begin work on establishing a Paragon Industries Facility on Elysium (4,879m + 236m/quarter + 900 production)
[] Build the 40TW ISAR for the collider project on Earth and sell it to them at cost.
3x Factory III - 1,000m
1x Lab I - 20m
1x Lab II - 100m
1x Lab III - 500m
1x Research I - 20m
1x Research II - 100m
1x Research III - 500m
1x Barracks - 10m
1x Admin Building - 10m
1x ISAR 40TW - 400m
1x Basic Security Measures - 250k
1x Perimeter Sensors Suite - 250k
1x Reconnaissance Drones Set - 1m
1x Advanced Security Measures - 7.5m
24x Research Teams
15x Security Teams with Legionaries - 210m
1x Legal Team
1x Investigation Team
Building Cost = 4,879,000,000 credits
Construction Time = 9 months (three quarters)
Production Required = 900
Operating Expenses = 236,000,000 credits per quarter
Minimum Gross Income = 22,950,000,000 credits per quarter
Minimum Net Income = 22,714,000,000 credits per quarter
Additional Research = 1337 research per quarter
1x Lab I - 20m
1x Lab II - 100m
1x Lab III - 500m
1x Research I - 20m
1x Research II - 100m
1x Research III - 500m
1x Barracks - 10m
1x Admin Building - 10m
1x ISAR 40TW - 400m
1x Basic Security Measures - 250k
1x Perimeter Sensors Suite - 250k
1x Reconnaissance Drones Set - 1m
1x Advanced Security Measures - 7.5m
24x Research Teams
15x Security Teams with Legionaries - 210m
1x Legal Team
1x Investigation Team
Building Cost = 4,879,000,000 credits
Construction Time = 9 months (three quarters)
Production Required = 900
Operating Expenses = 236,000,000 credits per quarter
Minimum Gross Income = 22,950,000,000 credits per quarter
Minimum Net Income = 22,714,000,000 credits per quarter
Additional Research = 1337 research per quarter
Elysium Lab I - 30d10+110
Lab = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 10 (research lab)
Team 1 = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team) + 5 (ANI)
Team 2 = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team) + 5 (ANI)
Elysium Lab II - 50d10+190
Lab = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 10 (research lab)
Team 1 = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team) + 5 (ANI)
Team 2 = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team) + 5 (ANI)
Team 3 = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team) + 5 (ANI)
Team 4 = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team) + 5 (ANI)
Elysium Lab III - 70d10+270
Lab = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 10 (research lab)
Team 1 = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team) + 5 (ANI)
Team 2 = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team) + 5 (ANI)
Team 3 = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team) + 5 (ANI)
Team 4 = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team) + 5 (ANI)
Team 5 = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team) + 5 (ANI)
Team 6 = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team) + 5 (ANI)
Total = 150d10+570
Average = 1395
95.18% = 1337
I'm quite amused that the 95% figure is 1337!
Lab = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 10 (research lab)
Team 1 = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team) + 5 (ANI)
Team 2 = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team) + 5 (ANI)
Elysium Lab II - 50d10+190
Lab = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 10 (research lab)
Team 1 = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team) + 5 (ANI)
Team 2 = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team) + 5 (ANI)
Team 3 = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team) + 5 (ANI)
Team 4 = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team) + 5 (ANI)
Elysium Lab III - 70d10+270
Lab = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 10 (research lab)
Team 1 = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team) + 5 (ANI)
Team 2 = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team) + 5 (ANI)
Team 3 = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team) + 5 (ANI)
Team 4 = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team) + 5 (ANI)
Team 5 = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team) + 5 (ANI)
Team 6 = 10d10 + 20 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team) + 5 (ANI)
Total = 150d10+570
Average = 1395
95.18% = 1337
I'm quite amused that the 95% figure is 1337!
Opening Cash at Bank = 14,465m
Abnormal Outflows = 70m + 1m + 4,879m = 4,950m
Remaining Cash at Bank = 14,465-4,950 = 9,515m
Contract Profit = 15,075m
Sales Team = 2,302m (Uncertain)
Other = 12m
Total Profit = 15087m (Min), 17,389(Max)
Total Expenses = 118m
NPBT = 14,969m (Min), 17,271m (Max)
NPAT = 11,975m (Min), 13,816 (Max)
Closing Cash at Bank = 21,490m (Min), 23,331m (Max)
Abnormal Outflows = 70m + 1m + 4,879m = 4,950m
Remaining Cash at Bank = 14,465-4,950 = 9,515m
Contract Profit = 15,075m
Sales Team = 2,302m (Uncertain)
Other = 12m
Total Profit = 15087m (Min), 17,389(Max)
Total Expenses = 118m
NPBT = 14,969m (Min), 17,271m (Max)
NPAT = 11,975m (Min), 13,816 (Max)
Closing Cash at Bank = 21,490m (Min), 23,331m (Max)
Research Actions
[] Advanced Mass Effect Theory - 60d10+120 (98.85%)
[] Advanced Neural Implant - 60d10+115 (97.97%)
[] CASIE Implant - 60d10+120 (99.97%)
[] Flawless Blackboxing / FRM - 30d10+25+Overflow
Advanced Mass Effect Theory - 60d10+120 (98.85%)
10d10 + 10 (VI) - 10 (Conrad)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 10 (research lab)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team)
Advanced Neural Implant - 60d10+115 (97.97%)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 10 (research lab)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team)
10d10 + 10 (VI)
10d10 + 10 (VI)
CASIE Implant - 60d10+120 (98.85%)
10d10 + 10 (VI) - 10 (Conrad)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 10 (research lab)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team)
Flawless Blackboxing / FRM - 30d10+25+Overflow (Average = 190/3200)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team)
10d10 + 10 (VI) - 10 (Conrad)
10d10 + 10 (VI) - 10 (Conrad)
10d10 + 10 (VI) - 10 (Conrad)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 10 (research lab)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team)
Advanced Neural Implant - 60d10+115 (97.97%)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 10 (research lab)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team)
10d10 + 10 (VI)
10d10 + 10 (VI)
CASIE Implant - 60d10+120 (98.85%)
10d10 + 10 (VI) - 10 (Conrad)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 10 (research lab)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team)
Flawless Blackboxing / FRM - 30d10+25+Overflow (Average = 190/3200)
10d10 + 10 (VI) + 5 (salary) + 10 (research team)
10d10 + 10 (VI) - 10 (Conrad)
10d10 + 10 (VI) - 10 (Conrad)
Personal Actions
[] Spend time with family
[] Train Biotics with Rahna
We haven't really spent enough time with Revy's family, that wasn't training, recently and given that she would have just had her first breakup, even if it was a nice mutual one, she'd probably enjoy it.
Biotics because even if the ANI can do a lot of it for us it's still a good idea to know how to use them manually and because Space Magic!
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Seeing Revys personally designed biotic implant in action might be fun. Potentially a good opportunity to show (instead of just telling us) how its better than the current generation of L2/L3 implants.
You've already started building the new factories on Mindoir, see your own vote post.
Also, I despair for my ability to challenge you guys economically in the future. Your current income, and more importantly projected income, is rather ridiculous.
