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In Which Sketch Makes Games

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Dirtnap said:
Uh, 1) Harder to hit 2) Take less damage (as the Mantlet of a turret is pretty damn thick) 3)are more accurate but can't move for a round or something.
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Well, like, duh, it's just the mechanism for getting hull down that's the problem, as PATROL doesn't really model terrain that closely.
 
open_sketchbook said:
Well, like, duh, it's just the mechanism for getting hull down that's the problem, as PATROL doesn't really model terrain that closely.
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Don't your mortars have LoS rules where they can fire over intervening terrain? Idk, does seem a bit difficult if everything is flat, so to speak. Perhaps have HULL DOWN as like a starting position or something? Useful for defensive situations?
 
Dirtnap said:
Don't your mortars have LoS rules where they can fire over intervening terrain? Idk, does seem a bit difficult if everything is flat, so to speak. Perhaps have HULL DOWN as like a starting position or something? Useful for defensive situations?
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It's generally a finicky and difficult thing, and the game isn't really about vehicles anyway, so I'm not terribly worried.

As a side note, if you want to know what this kind of thing does for my motivation, I opened a file and kicked out about half the Japanese part of the Pacific expansion in one go. Considering PATROL proper will be in playtesting for a while, probably, I can likely set up these two expansions, and maybe even the modern one, in time to come out simultaneous to the main product.

With that in mind, does anybody here have a group they can run games with themselves? I want blind testers of this stupid game! I'll send you copies of the current PDF and whatever advice you need to run the damned thing.
 
I...can't really GM. Plate is pretty full, sorry boss. I've got the quest I'm running here and at least half a dozen RPs.
 
open_sketchbook said:
Well, like, duh, it's just the mechanism for getting hull down that's the problem, as PATROL doesn't really model terrain that closely.
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Some relevant skill roll? On a success, you're hull down. On a failure, you search but can't find any features to hide behind. On a very bad failure, you get your tank stuck.
 
I can run one at the Bay 12 forum; while I don't GM over there they're always interested in a new system.
 
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Review - GRUNT
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    • Dessard said:
    I can run one at the Bay 12 forum; while I don't GM over there they're always interested in a new system.
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    C.o.S.a.R said:
    I might be able to get a group together in about a week or so.
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    samdamandias said:
    I can ask my current group, and in a few weeks I'll be able to ask the clubs at my school.
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    Awesome! I'm sure I can count on you guys to not leak out the rules and to run things decisively. I'll make a few more passes on the rules I've got to tighten things up, then I'll throw you all a link to the current PDF.

    If I could get session-by-session reports (or links to wherever you are running them publicly), it would be a huge help. I'm looking for both general game feel stuff as well as specific numbers; I don't think "balance" is really a concern, but avoiding feedback loops, overly easy or impossible checks, dead ends and the like would be optimal.

    My hope is to get the game done done by the end of August, though I can hold off as reports come back.

    As a side note, I've been reading another Vietnam War RPG called GRUNT (we really like these monosyllabic names it seems.) It's... interesting. It's definitely more a game about personal experiences then RECON, but it's got that amateur RPG feel throughout; sparse and low-impact art, rules are very difficult to follow, and it has a lot of tech-nerd detail stuff. It has a ton of super bizarre choices in it, like having equipment listed by price in dollars, and the way it uses maps is kind of weird and inconsistant. It's not sure if it wants to be a traditional RPG or a story game; most of the rules are centered around the idea of a turn-by-turn trek through the bush with no real landmarks, being based around tension, fear and confusion, which I really like, but not all the mechanics really reflect that. In places, it's really mechanically accurate to real life, but in others its abstracted to hell. The layout of rules makes basically no sense. It's difficult to get a complete picture.

    As for accuracy, the game prattles on a lot about military structure, which is meh, does a lot of talking about the social context of the 1960s, which is great, and has some odd choices for citation. The game is explicitly based more on books than movies; Dispatches and The Short Timers both get mentioned. However, it also praises We Were Soldiers as a very accurate and true to life movie, which is hilarious because that movie is trash and isn't even true to the book it's based on!

    (Seriously, I think Green Berets is a better Vietnam War movie than We Were Soldiers by an entire country mile, because at least Green Berets wasn't butchering a real battle. We Were Soldiers successfully left out some of the most interesting details of the Battle of La Drang, which I honestly a battle that needs no embellishment to be made engaging, while also ending it in a fucking bayonet charge.)

    In short, it's a neat little game, but I think PATROL blows it out of the water in all sorts of ways, which makes me feel pretty confident.
     
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    • Fun stuff time before I send the game out: I wanna get down a preliminary vehicle list. Nothing too extensive so I can sell people more stuff later, but looking at...

    - 4x4 Utility Car
    - Cargo Truck
    - Gun Truck
    - APC (Representing both the M113 and the Type 63. Upgrades for flamethrowers and biz)
    - PBR
    - Swift Boat
    - Huey
    - Chinook
    - Loach
    - Cobra
    - M41 Walker Bulldog
    - M60 Patton
    - PT-76 light tank
    - Type 63 anti-aircraft gun (Makes a good mission objective)
    - Type 59
    - Generic Jet
    - Generic Prop Plane
    - Spoopy Gunship

    I think that covers all the bases.
     
    In between the M41 Walker Bulldog and the M60 Patton, there should probably be an M48 Patton. You should probably also note that the Type 59 can represent both Chinese-produced Type 59s and the T-54s that North Vietnam received from the Soviet Union. They're basically the same tank, so it might be worth noting this to make people aware that they can use the Type 59 when they need stats for the T-54.
     
    Eukie said:
    In between the M41 Walker Bulldog and the M60 Patton, there should probably be an M48 Patton. You should probably also note that the Type 59 can represent both Chinese-produced Type 59s and the T-54s that North Vietnam received from the Soviet Union. They're basically the same tank, so it might be worth noting this to make people aware that they can use the Type 59 when they need stats for the T-54.
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    Good idea and yep, I'm writing out the profile as "Type 59/T-54".
     
    Don't forget about the Centurion Mk 7/1 if you are going to put the aussies in. All things considered it was probably one of the better tanks used by the non NVA side. Also the Ontos. Just because that thing is silly.
     
    Dirtnap said:
    Don't forget about the Centurion Mk 7/1 if you are going to put the aussies in. All things considered it was probably one of the better tanks used by the non NVA side. Also the Ontos. Just because that thing is silly.
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    Oh shit I can't believe I almost forgot the Ontos. That was a machine so crazy I put it into Red Alert 3 without modifications.




    And people called bullshit on it.
     
    Checking wikipedia, the ARVN also used some M24 Chafees early in the war, and some quick googling reveals that it was also Cambodia's primary tank. There's a certain, maddening, appeal in running a game about a South Vietnamese tank crew in M24 Chafees trying to go up against far more powerful North Vietnamese Soviet/Chinese-supplied T-54s, and it could add an interesting obstacle to games involving the Cambodian Campaign from the US/ARVN side.
     
    Clearly the best thing to do is run a Hell on Treads game about assaulting a town in an M60, then tell them when they're done that they're now playing PATROL as the poor dumb bastards that have to go in and finish the job.
     
    So today I wrote a bunch of vehicle profiles and I made an InDesign template so I can churn out PATROL expansions without doing any extra work. Here's what I've got on the go and how it's coming along, in order of priority.

    - DEFAULT GAME: Rules basically done. Lots of writing around the edges.
    - PACIFIC EXPANSIONS: Japanese book like 50%. Marine book needs a lot of mechanics work.
    - EASTERN FRONT EXPANSION: Holding off as I try to figure out how I'm going to do it.
    - 40K FREE EXPANSION: Rules mostly written. Have to do a lot of custom layout work because I want it to feel like a 3rd Ed Codex.
    - RA3 EXPANSION: I made a cover!



    Seriously, it'd be really cool to do something for people who've been following me since before I made RPGs, and hey, this one is already set in Vietnam...
     


    What vehicle profiles look like in the book. It's actually kind of crazy awesome how much I can do with these.

    (Ignore the Patton's stats ATM, I'm still crunching through all that stuff.)
     
    Alright, so, after being pressed by the IRC to set this thing up, I went and made a Patreon page.

    I'm not asking you to pledge or nothin', seriously, the playtesting and the feedback is more than enough from you guys, but I thought you ought to know because I'm going to be making weekly status updates every Saturday. I'll still mirror them in the thread, but just so you know what is up.
     
    Eukie said:
    I really like the visual style of these. They really look almost exactly like old military documents written on yellowing paper.
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    That's the goal! In the final version, I'm going to go back through every single one of those white boxes and replace them with 50% transparent white boxes underlaid under the text for a softer touch. I only do don't them as I go because it takes forever and I hate having to change them.
     
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