- Location
- Spain
This. Which is why Exalts don't actually need most perfects; The only ones they really need are perfect enviromental defenses.
3E actually adresses this, and perfects are mostly gone except against sources of "uncontable" damage.
General Exalted Thread
This. Which is why Exalts don't actually need most perfects; The only ones they really need are perfect enviromental defenses.
3E actually adresses this, and perfects are mostly gone except against sources of "uncontable" damage.
Eukie
Powered by furious Canadian redheads
Basically canon with respect to Games of Divinity, which is written in a way that gives the distinct impression that you're supposed to write up the Primordials as D&D-style dungeons where the goal is to get to the centre and kill the Fetich-Soul endboss.
The Sandman
So Zetta Slowpoke
- Location
- Wherever I am, which isn't where I'm not
So would a jouten be the stupidly overpowered bonus boss in this scenario?
Aleph
Princess of Stabbity
- Location
- The sixth circle of Hell (second on weekends)
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Honestly, the jouten should probably be bits of the skybox at the back of the videogame level. They're not bosses; they're level scenery. The Brass Dancer won't try to kill you. It won't even recognise you. It'll just dance, and spread a natural hazard mental effect around it that pulls lesser beings into dancing with it until they die of exhaustion, or leave them feverish and raving from exposure to its glory. Killing it doesn't hurt Malfeas as a whole, because it's more like a natural phenomenon than a body of the Yozi itself. Destroying it no more harms Malfeas than stopping the collision of two of his layers or does, because it's the same kind of thing - an effect that stems from how his world-body works.
Or to put it another way, it's closer to a mobile N/A-dot Malfean demesne than a "Yozi's body" in terms of metaphysical nature, and if you destroy it, it'll just reform elsewhere. There's no soul or intelligence in there; it's not a creature so much as a very potent moving bit of scenery.
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
You'd never encounter a humanoid Jouten in this particular scenario, because Primordials shouldn't operate and be capable of focusing their powers on the humanoid scale. Malfeas as Jouten doesn't throw a punch, he bathes a several kilometer area in nuclear fire.A jouten is simply another word for 'body', so the Brass Dancer and Demon city are just the Jouten of Malfeas. The dancer on the other hand wouldn't be seen in combat, because it just gives the Exatled a target of a size they know how to fight.
About the only one who should be capable of fighting you on the individual scale is the Ebon Dragon, but thats because hes everyones antagonistic twin. Even then it should be gathering up the shadows of everoyne within reach, forcing you to fight it without an army lest he unleash his own black mirror shintai force back at you.
Jon Chung
=][=
Maybe the fetich of a combatant Primordial, as opposed to a random third circle of a weak one. The smallest Primordial manifestation is still a map, not an entity. There are no human-scale jouten, just more environmental effects.
By assassinating Lilike. The condition for "kill a Primordial so hard it cannot reform and instead implodes into a Neverborn" is "eat all the other souls, then eat the fetich". If you eat just the fetich without first eating the rest of it, the Primordial reforms as a different Primordial. If you kill the fetich without eating it, the fetich respawns and the Primordial is unharmed.
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vicky_molokh
Posthuman spidery thingy.
- Location
- Kyïv, Ukraine
I recall that destroying the entirety of a jouten is one of the offered methods of killing a Primordial, e.g. that maybe destroying all the Layered City Layers would create a Malfean variant of Malfeas. In the interpretation where this is the way to go, it seems like destroying the Brass Dancer should be the same as completely destroying any other Jouten of the Primordial in question. So . . . creation may vary based on storyteller discretion, eh?
Aleph
Princess of Stabbity
- Location
- The sixth circle of Hell (second on weekends)
- Pronouns
- She/Her
... yes, that would be why the word "should" (with the unspoken "in my opinion") was in there. Because you should not be able to swordfight a Yozi on a human scale, because - as the discussion has already said - that is stupid. Therefore, since the Brass Dancer is cool, it needs to be something that will not permakill the Primordial King like snapping your fingers if you GET it in the face. Therefore, make it a very metaphysically potent bit of scenery that's more like an "expression" crossing the "face" of Malfeas-the-video-game-level than a bonus body that makes the entire level self-destruct if you kill it. You destroy it, it does as much as destroying a shitload of Malfean buildings - new ones will grow to replace them; another Dancer will form when the Demon City next feels like dancing.
This can also be represented as it basically being an N/A-dot demesne that happens to walk around and mind-fuck anything exposed to it into either dancing themselves to death or passing out into a feverish delirium. Any essence taps it passes probably explode from overcharging. God alone knows what happens if you're dumb enough to use an artifact that charges from ambient essence when it's nearby.
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
I'd like to see what happens if you try to hold it down and attune to it
Aleph
Princess of Stabbity
- Location
- The sixth circle of Hell (second on weekends)
- Pronouns
- She/Her
This is an excellent idea that cannot possibly go wrong, and is a plan truly worthy of an Exalted player character.
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
Don't forget using some of those Kimberly charms to build a manse on him!
The Sandman
So Zetta Slowpoke
- Location
- Wherever I am, which isn't where I'm not
"You can manse if you want to, you can leave your souls behind..."
If it's pinned, it's not able to dance, and therefore undergoes Critical Existance Failure (a new one will pop up later the same as if you killed it). This might be a way to get the City to start squinting at you.
Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
I guess I'm alone in the opinion that having a Primordial pay specific attention to you and fight you in a similarly-sized body isn't silly.
I mean, Gaia's humaniform jouten hangs around at the games and spends time with Luna, why can't the others have their own jouten operate at a similar level?
I mean, Gaia's humaniform jouten hangs around at the games and spends time with Luna, why can't the others have their own jouten operate at a similar level?
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
Theres a difference between hanging around with one, such as learning to dance by observing the Brass Dancer, or having the Page boy run around the Infernal prefecture a few times smiling at everyone just to screw with them, and one deciding to fight you with a Humanoid form for no reason at all.
When your a city block sized hurricane whose very touch brings death, why exactly would you be trying to punch them in the face again? Especially when you can potentially grow to the size of an entire direction. You don't punch a hurricane or sandstorm in the face, you do your best to survive or struggle against it while attempting to reach your goal
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There's plenty of charms that let you hit immaterial or non-solid targets.
When that nasty Solar is laughing at your crimson wind thanks to his environmental defences, it's time to buckle down a bring out the knives. Refusing to do battle against someone who's pressed you that far is just stupid.
azoicennead
Overly-Affectionate Zombie Squad
- Pronouns
- He/They
That's when you start actively murdering him with your murder-wind, rather than passively murdering him by standing on him.
- Location
- Germany
You know I can actually imagine Isidoros doing exactly that. Just because.
I feel it should be more specific depending on the themes of each Yozi. But yeah, Malfeas has no reason to fight in a humanoid shape, he would rather compell(shout at) his servants to kill you or try throwing irradiated layers at you if sufficiently pissed off - which might well happen if you do something as stupid as
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
That environmental effect is just the passive bonus of having her around. Or as she calls it, foreplay.
That isn't her actively trying to kill you, which generally involves having to play "DODGE" to dozens of sneak attacking invisible wind murder knives, since Adorjan also gets all the stealth charms. Still better then her trying to romance you though
Love hurts. Thats how you know its working.
-parphrased from battle royale
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Because Luna's an E10 multi-primordial project built for that exact purpose. Oh, and she can colocate which is normally a Primordial/3CD only trick. So comparing her to basically anything else when it comes to getting Primordial attention meaningfully while not being one is invalid because Luna is fucking WEIRD.
Jon Chung
=][=
Note that this is silly because it leads to stupid mechanical outcomes: if you need to be mechanically capable of fighting a Dyson Sphere, or the power-equivalent of a Dyson Sphere crammed into a brass man, the game's gonna break.
Because the system can't handle that and shouldn't have to.
In regards to fighting Jotun.
My headcanon has it that not all Jotun are created equal.
Malfeas is both the Brass Dancer and the Demon City(and probably a few other things), but he's more the Demon City than he is the Brass Dancer.
As a result of that and also because of the logistics of a Dyson Sphere trying to squeeze itself down to a roughly humanoid body and how that's just not happening, Malfeas cannot channel his full power through the Brass Dancer. You can fight it and even kill it. But since the Brass Dancer isn't all of Malfeas, you would only kill the parts that are the Dancer. You can't kill all of Malfeas by killing the Brass Dancer.*
You can hurt him terribly and do so by destroying some of the last bits of him that can feel genuine joy, but Malfeas as a whole would survive.
*Well, in theory if you could grab one Jotun and you could maybe use it as an Arcane Link to target the rest of the Primordial, but uh. There's a couple readily apparent problems with that.
My headcanon has it that not all Jotun are created equal.
Malfeas is both the Brass Dancer and the Demon City(and probably a few other things), but he's more the Demon City than he is the Brass Dancer.
As a result of that and also because of the logistics of a Dyson Sphere trying to squeeze itself down to a roughly humanoid body and how that's just not happening, Malfeas cannot channel his full power through the Brass Dancer. You can fight it and even kill it. But since the Brass Dancer isn't all of Malfeas, you would only kill the parts that are the Dancer. You can't kill all of Malfeas by killing the Brass Dancer.*
You can hurt him terribly and do so by destroying some of the last bits of him that can feel genuine joy, but Malfeas as a whole would survive.
*Well, in theory if you could grab one Jotun and you could maybe use it as an Arcane Link to target the rest of the Primordial, but uh. There's a couple readily apparent problems with that.