Remove ads

General Exalted Thread

Reader mode
Chloe Sullivan said:
So in 3e you usually get an awareness roll off vs stealth for ambushes, but if they beat you on the roll off and surprised you, you're just kinda screwed? Flat out surprise negation no longer seems to be a thing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There's no "Your stealth is worthless" response, but Reflex Sidestep Technique (which sets your Evasion to 2 instead of 0 for ambushes, and has the capability of raising your Evasion higher depending on the attacker's role) is helpful. And after the first ambush all future stealth attacks are 'merely' surprise attacks, so it's a flat -2 to Defense rather than setting it to 0.
 
Chloe Sullivan said:
So in 3e you usually get an awareness roll off vs stealth for ambushes, but if they beat you on the roll off and surprised you, you're just kinda screwed? Flat out surprise negation no longer seems to be a thing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ambushes seem like one of those things if I was playing a stealth character in a game, I would avoid using, because the prospect of where it could go if the ST started using it is kinda terrifying. Kinda like how I don't use stealth in combat in Ex2, cause it's a technology that could go terrible places.
 
Serafina said:
Well, it only makes a difference if you have Mastery, because then you'd get a +1 bonus from the light artifact traits.
Now, the explanation of Defense states that you can't parry if you wield ranged weapons such as bows or chakrams - but that's pretty clearly a statement of "can't parry with Archery or Thrown", it's also not listed as a possibility in the calculation of a characters parry rating. Logically, you can parry with a weapon even if it has the thrown tag, such as an Axe, Knife or Short Spear. Just wielding a weapon with the thrown or archery tag doesn't prevent you from parrying either, otherwise that'd destroy concepts such as sword and flame piece.

So no, there is nothing preventing you from using Kiais to parry. Simply use your Martial Arts score in the calculation, add +1 if you have Mastery and you're good. You can't use it to defend other at range, the rules don't state anything like that.

Of course, you may be ask to stunt it properly. Deflecting arrows or other projectiles is pretty simple, while stopping a sword or such would require more explanation. But the rules are fine with it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm going to take the opposite position, actually. It's true that the Thrown tag doesn't prevent you from parrying, but what I think you've missed is that the kiais not only have the thrown tag, they lack the Brawl, Martial Arts, and Melee tags. With no parry-ability tags, you can't parry with them. (You throw the kiais with Martial Arts, but that's a specific exception to the rule that you make throwing attacks with Thrown, which is not the same.)
 
Vanigo said:
I'm going to take the opposite position, actually. It's true that the Thrown tag doesn't prevent you from parrying, but what I think you've missed is that the kiais not only have the thrown tag, they lack the Brawl, Martial Arts, and Melee tags. With no parry-ability tags, you can't parry with them. (You throw the kiais with Martial Arts, but that's a specific exception to the rule that you make throwing attacks with Thrown, which is not the same.)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Okay, but you can still use DEX + MA (SVN) to parry unarmed, right?
 
Okay, so two 3e rules questions:

1) At what point do you activate most Resistance Charms? The 2e answer is "After you find out whether the attack hits, probably before damage gets rolled," i.e., Step 7 or so. 3e doesn't appear to specifically mention one way or the other, which leaves the general rule of:

Players (including the Storyteller) must openly declare which Charms their characters are using,
and all Charms (unless their text indicates otherwise) must be declared, and their costs spent,
before any dice are rolled.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

On the other hand, most of the actual Resistance Charms look like they want to be activated post-attack rolls. Is there anything specific I'm missing?

2) Consider Charms such as Ferocious Jab, which says it gets extra damage equal to your current Onslaught penalty. Let's say you have Fivefold Bulwark Stance up, which is letting you ignore the Onslaught penalty you would otherwise suffer from three previous attacks. Does FJ add 0 or 3 dice?

(My inclinations are "After we find out whether the attack hits" and "Three," but I'm not confident of either of them.)
 
Irked said:
Okay, so two 3e rules questions:

1) At what point do you activate most Resistance Charms? The 2e answer is "After you find out whether the attack hits, probably before damage gets rolled," i.e., Step 7 or so. 3e doesn't appear to specifically mention one way or the other, which leaves the general rule of:



On the other hand, most of the actual Resistance Charms look like they want to be activated post-attack rolls. Is there anything specific I'm missing?

2) Consider Charms such as Ferocious Jab, which says it gets extra damage equal to your current Onslaught penalty. Let's say you have Fivefold Bulwark Stance up, which is letting you ignore the Onslaught penalty you would otherwise suffer from three previous attacks. Does FJ add 0 or 3 dice?

(My inclinations are "After we find out whether the attack hits" and "Three," but I'm not confident of either of them.)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
1) I know there are rolls for damage with decisive attacks, are there similar things for other attacks? I'd be inclined to go with your interpretation: the benefit of resistance is usually that while it doesn't help you not get hit, you only need to activate it when you do.
2) As long as Bulwark is simply saying that you ignore the penalty, then I'd definitely agree. You still have the penalty, you're just not suffering it for some rolls.
 
Irked said:
On the other hand, most of the actual Resistance Charms look like they want to be activated post-attack rolls. Is there anything specific I'm missing?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Which Charms are giving you trouble? I'm looking them over and they seem to follow the basic rule (i.e., must be declared before rolls unless the Charm says otherwise).
 
C.o.S.a.R said:
1) I know there are rolls for damage with decisive attacks, are there similar things for other attacks? I'd be inclined to go with your interpretation: the benefit of resistance is usually that while it doesn't help you not get hit, you only need to activate it when you do.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yes. Withering and Decisive follow basically the same pattern in terms of number and general purpose of rolls.
Side Item said:
Which Charms are giving you trouble? I'm looking them over and they seem to follow the basic rule (i.e., must be declared before rolls unless the Charm says otherwise).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well, Spirit Strengthens the Skin is explicit in its timing. Iron Skin Concentration's Withering version can be read either way; its Decisive version is explicitly post-rolling. Adamant Skin Technique is pretty darn expensive to be used on a "maybe."

But there's nothing explicit with those last two - that's exactly my problem.
 
Last edited:
Irked said:
Well, Spirit Strengthens the Skin is explicit in its timing. Iron Skin Concentration's Withering version can be read either way; its Decisive version is explicitly post-rolling. Adamant Skin Technique is pretty darn expensive to be used on a "maybe."

But there's nothing explicit with those last two - that's exactly my problem.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
What in ISC suggests that it's withering version can be used after rolling? The fact that the decisive version goes out of its way to say it can be used post-rolling suggests that the charm is operating under the general rule, so that the withering version being silent means you have to declare it before the unsoakable damage has been rolled.

AST...well, you seem to recognize that it follows the general rule, you just think that it's cost should allow for post-rolling activation? There's nothing to suggest it could be used after the roll, you just have to take the chance that the cost will be worth it. 8m is steep, but AST is also the only perfect you can theoretically spam (provided you have the motes), since Heavenly Guardian Defense requires you to have initiative to burn and Seven Shadow Evasion needs to be reset between uses.

ETA: Just so I'm clear, what do you mean by "there's nothing explicit with [ISC and AST]"? If they're not explicit about when they can be declared, the general rule holds. The only time explicitness is needed is when they break from the general rule.
 
Last edited:
Side Item said:
What in ISC suggests that it's withering version can be used after rolling? The fact that the decisive version goes out of its way to say it can be used post-rolling suggests that the charm is operating under the general rule, so that the withering version being silent means you have to declare it before the unsoakable damage has been rolled.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
To clarify, there are basically three steps (broadly) where Charms can be activated.
1) Before attack is rolled
2) After attack is rolled, before damage is rolled
3) After damage is rolled.

Several of these can be subdivided, but that's enough for a broad view. Most offensive and defensive Charms activate at (1). I should have said that ISC-for-Decisives is explicitly (3). My general question is, "Do soak Charms in general activate at (1) or (2)?" 2e was always explicit that the answer was (2), and I realized that was my go-to assumption for 3e as well; now I'm not sure whether it's an unstated assumption in the rules, or whether it's simply not true anymore.

Does that clarify? "Post-rolling" was a poor way for me to word things - that the Decisives are at (3) doesn't clarify whether the Witherings are at (1) or (2).

AST...well, you seem to recognize that it follows the general rule, you just think that it's cost should allow for post-rolling activation? There's nothing to suggest it could be used after the roll, you just have to take the chance that the cost will be worth it. 8m is steep, but AST is also the only perfect you can theoretically spam (provided you have the motes), since Heavenly Guardian Defense requires you to have initiative to burn and Seven Shadow Evasion needs to be reset between uses.

ETA: Just so I'm clear, what do you mean by "there's nothing explicit with [ISC and AST]"? If they're not explicit about when they can be declared, the general rule holds. The only time explicitness is needed is when they break from the general rule.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I suppose I'm more looking to verify that this is the general rule for 3e soak Charms, and that there's not anything obvious I'm overlooking.
 
SerGregness said:
The general rule is fairly straightforward and explicit. Why would you think the soak charms are an exception?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Because "before rolling" can be interpreted as "before *any* dice are rolled" or as "before the dice specifically relevant to this charm's effect are rolled." The former would point to the attack roll as the thing you need to declare before, the latter the damage roll.
 
Irked said:
My general question is, "Do soak Charms in general activate at (1) or (2)?" 2e was always explicit that the answer was (2), and I realized that was my go-to assumption for 3e as well; now I'm not sure whether it's an unstated assumption in the rules, or whether it's simply not true anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Ok, I think this is just a 2Eism/cross edition misunderstanding. From my reading, there's basically two times you can declare Charms. Either under your (1) scenario before the attack is rolled (the general rule), or whenever the Charm explicitly says you can. Thus, you only get to declare the Charms in (2) or (3) if the Charm allows it.

For instance, Spirit Strengthens the Skin says that it can be used "After an attack hits, but before damage is rolled," which would be your (2). The fact that the Charm has to add this exception suggests that the general rule doesn't include (2), because if (2) was included in the general rule the Charm would have just omitted that surplus language. (inb4 "Something something lots of surplus language in 3e hurr hurr")

This does mean that sometimes you'll spend 3m on Durability of Oak Meditation when an attack is directed at you, but they miss so there's no raw damage the Charm can apply to, which means those 3m were 'wasted'. I think you're supposed to weigh whether the upfront cost is worth insuring against the unknown/possible nonexistant risk, and folding (2) into the general rule changes the dynamic of ISC, DoAM, AST, etc.
 
Chloe Sullivan said:
Because "before rolling" can be interpreted as "before *any* dice are rolled" or as "before the dice specifically relevant to this charm's effect are rolled." The former would point to the attack roll as the thing you need to declare before, the latter the damage roll.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Basically that, yeah. Though... damage boosting Charms still need to be paid before anything happens, which argues against this interpretation.

Side Item: Okay, cool, thanks. That's a very plausible interpretation.
 
Irked said:
Basically that, yeah. Though... damage boosting Charms still need to be paid before anything happens, which argues against this interpretation.

Side Item: Okay, cool, thanks. That's a very plausible interpretation.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Except the advantage of Resistance charms (which involve being hit) has always been that you don't need to activate them unless you're actually hit, with the down-side being that you're still, y'know, hit. That means that you're still at risk for effects that trigger on a hit, and you still need to worry about things like minimum damage.
 
Side Item said:
For instance, Spirit Strengthens the Skin says that it can be used "After an attack hits, but before damage is rolled," which would be your (2). The fact that the Charm has to add this exception suggests that the general rule doesn't include (2), because if (2) was included in the general rule the Charm would have just omitted that surplus language. (inb4 "Something something lots of surplus language in 3e hurr hurr")
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
But then again this is contradicted by Iron Skin Concentration specifically stating that it must be used before the attack is rolled.
This Charm must be invoked when an attack is directed at the Solar, but before it is rolled
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This section clearly needs some editing for clarity. Let's hope they did that in the final copy.
 
Serafina said:
So, Socialize in 3E can allow you to do a rather nifty and unique thing:
Create entirely new personas for your character.
It starts as a new set of Intimacies, but can also include having entirely new abilities or even charms.

Rule-wise, the whole thing starts with Heart-Eclipsing Shroud which needs Socialize 5, Essence 3 and has 5 prerequisite charms. Each purchase creates an entire new set of Intimacies called a "Persona". Each Persona is activated with a 4+ hours meditation, and your Personas Intimacies and your real ones are treated as entirely separate things.

The next charm, Hundred-Faced Stranger, gives each of your Personas their own set of abilities.
First, you sum up (Socialize) + (One Dawn-caste Ability) + (Integrity OR Presence) + (Bureaucracy OR Linguistics) + (Ride OR Sail). Your Personas start with that many Ability dots.
Half of those must go into Eclipse- or Zenith-Abilities (So Athletics, Integrity, Performance, Lore, Presence, Resistance, War, Survival, Bureaucracy, Larceny, Linguistics, Occult, Ride, Sail, Socialize).
Personas can purchase Craft, Occult, Lore or Dawn-Abilities, but they may not be higher than your natural ones.
Personas also gain 10 new favored abilities and 3 specialities.

In addition to that, your Personas have half as much experience as you, which may be spent on abilities or specialities for the persona.
And while in a Persona, you can activate any charms you still fulfill the prerequisites for.

The next charm after that allows you to spend Persona-Experience on charms for that Persona.
Further charms upgrade your Persona-Experience to 3/4ths of your actual XP or borrow abilities and charms from your Personas.



Now let's make a character who utilizes that. How about a wandering salesman who can slip into some more appropriate identities in new places?

First we need the relevant charms of course. That spends 7 charms out of our 15 at character creation.
Then we maximize the points our Persona gets. Let's pick Bureaucracy 5, Integrity 5, Ride 5, Brawl 5 and of course Socialize 5. That gives us 25 dots to spend.

The first Persona we create is simply much more outgoing and talkative than we are. Let's call it our "Bard Persona".
Out of those 25 dots, we spend 5 on Brawl to make sure we can still fight properly. We also have Resistance 1 so that Ox-Body technique is still active, and Integrity 3 and Socialize 2. With the remaining points we get Presence 5, Performance 5 and Linguistics 4.
Now whenever we know we want to impress people, we can do so after 4 hours of meditation.


Now let's see how that character may progress.
The first logical purchase would be Legend Mask Methodology, and Draw the Curtain soon thereafter. That's 16 XP spent - so with Draw the Curtain, our persona now has 12 XP to spend and can buy charms.

At Essence 2 (and thus 50 XP) we can create another Persona.
Again Brawl 5, Resistance 1. But this time we make a Thief: Larceny 5, Athletics 5, Stealth 5, Investigation 3, Awareness 1.
Both of our Personas also have 37 XP to spend - enough for 4 charms and something to spare.

At Essence 3, another Persona can be created. We could make a Sailor:
Brawl 5, Resistance 5, Sail 5, Survival 5, Athletics 3, Awareness 2.
Or a Doctor:
Brawl 5, Resistance 1, Medicine 5, Investigation 5, Lore 5, Occult 4. For this, the main character would need Lore 5, Occult 4 - but we could purchase charms with Persona-XP.
And of course there are at least 75 XP to spend on each Persona, which could be 9 charms.

Meanwhile, the characters main experience is well-spent on Brawl-charms which are active across all Personas. If we give the Persona's higher Resistance, the same goes for Resistance-charms.
Socialize-charms are easily shared with the Bard, while buying Awareness-charms would benefit the Thief.
And of course any Solar-XP should be spent on increasing Attributes or Willpower since that benefits all Personas. Or Evocations or Eclipse-charms, since those are automatically shared across all Personas as well.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I just realized something.

The builds you use for the personas don't work, because a persona has 10 favored abilities, and unless they're an exception to the usual rule, you have minimum one dot in every favored ability.
 
Okay, I need some assitance.What do you think are the Exaltion Conditions for the Titanic Exalted in Gunstar is?
 
greensun said:
Okay, I need some assitance.What do you think are the Exaltion Conditions for the Titanic Exalted in Gunstar is?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Have each different type Exaltation have it's own parameters based on the nature of the Primordial. Something like this maybe?

- The Holy Tyrant: Leadership. Where others might bend or break you step up to the challenge and take your rightful place as first among equals. -Isidoros: Determination. When others waver, you stand firm and move ever onward toward your goal. You let nothing stand in your way be it people, morals or even common sense.
 
Okay so I'm probably never going to come back in here and comment again, but after reading some of the Terrifying Argent Witches fanstuff y'all made at the same time as listening to constant Gehrman fights looping in the background, I have to wonder if he, Bloodborne's Gehrman, is thematically appropriately for him to be a Lunar?
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top