True enough! I got the four hour casting time as a quick estimate- in actuality, the exact casting time will vary based on season (possibly- Creation may or may not have shorter days during winter).

And yes- the statement of 'Sorcery is used as preparation for combat, not during' stands. Theoretically, if you have some good backup, you can cast spells in combat... but generally, it's not a good idea.
 
I also forgot to mention- by paying extra motes during the initial Shape Sorcery action, Demon of the First Circle can reduce the dice pool of the demon for the resulting contest of wills.

On the other hand, it's a cost of five motes per dice. Again, caution on the part of the Sorcerer is advised, because if you still screw things up, the lack of motes will reduce your ability to deal with the demon if both binding and banishing fails.
 
For a bit of inter edition talk there, Spells are basically unchanged between the editions which makes the combat spells all a bit weaker then they where at first as you have a bit of statistic inflation between first and second edition , which goes back to the classical problem of all spells.
 
Does anyone know what abilities let a mortal become a god in 2/2.5? I've hankering to stat up Old One Eye, god of old soldiers returned to war and undersecretary to the god of war (East) from Exalted Mook Quest.

Also, if someone could point me towards the rules for redeeming an Abyssal/ corrupting a Solar, I would be much obliged.
 
Does anyone know what abilities let a mortal become a god in 2/2.5? I've hankering to stat up Old One Eye, god of old soldiers returned to war and undersecretary to the god of war (East) from Exalted Mook Quest.

Also, if someone could point me towards the rules for redeeming an Abyssal/ corrupting a Solar, I would be much obliged.
Ascending into godhood is done if a Spirit grants a mortal the 4th dot of essence with the endovement charm, if a god does it he becomes one, if a Demon does it he becomes a demon and so on. If I remember it right in either the White and Black Treatise or the Abyssal book are the details of the spell/artefact that creates a celestial monstrance which is where the transformation happens. Around there in eh Aby book should also be the barebone rules to become a solar.
 
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The funny thing about WDC was that its points and points redistribution allowed it to be quite simply the best weapon possible.
 
And yes- the statement of 'Sorcery is used as preparation for combat, not during' stands. Theoretically, if you have some good backup, you can cast spells in combat... but generally, it's not a good idea.
Especially if you have multiple opponents.
Even if you're a 2nd Circle Demon.

On the other hand, it's a cost of five motes per dice. Again, caution on the part of the Sorcerer is advised, because if you still screw things up, the lack of motes will reduce your ability to deal with the demon if both binding and banishing fails.
What, is a static, no-magic combat dicepool higher than a 2CD's unusual? :p
(I'm hoping I'll get a chance to proclaim myself the Invincible Sword Goddess in appropriate fashion.)
(Wait, how does Octavian get Defense 18 with his staff? How did that not get touched by the errata?)

Also, if someone could point me towards the rules for redeeming an Abyssal/ corrupting a Solar, I would be much obliged.
Rules for corrupting Solars: MoEP: Abyssals p116-117.
I'm not sure where the rules for redeeming Abyssals are. I don't remember anything being made explicit about it beyond "it's really hard", but I could be wrong.
 
If you wanted to create a Martial Art which uses two-handed great swords or grand daiklaives, what image would you use to make it unique?

Right now, Solar Melee does an excellent job of allowing you to play Cloud Strife or Arturia "Saber" Pendragon. Or Guts, if you don't want to play him as an Abyssal.

The first image that stands out to me is capitalizing on a grand daiklave's ridiculous width and length, by using the sharpened surf board as a makeshift shield. This would work against close-range attacks, but would be even more effective against ranged attacks.

Naturally, the style should use some of Cloud's Limit Breaks: the Buster Wave, the Climb Hazard (or Sonic Rave, from Kingdom Hearts), and the Cross Slash and Omnislash. (Not so much the tornado or the WTF meteorite barrage.)


This doesn't seem like quite enough on its own, especially when the Style needs to be distinct from the Great Hammer Style I'm working on. At least hammers are a thing that Solar Melee doesn't particularly cover, what with having no Smashing-enhancers, knockback/down effects, improvised earthquake attacks, or object-breakers.

But neither does Solar Melee directly enhance Chopping attacks, so that's a start.


Still, can anyone think of anything else to add? Righteous Devil Style broadens itself out by adding "judge and executioner of evil-doers" to its concept. White Reaper has its halos.

Cloud, Saber and Guts don't share a lot in common.
 
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If you wanted to create a Martial Art which uses two-handed great swords or grand daiklaives, what image would you use to make it unique?







"Hell Fang Style"

This martial art is a unique style developed for the use of extremely heavy blades such as great swords and grand daiklaves. The user carries their blade in a reverse grip at their hip, holding it back and away from the body. The style compensates for the weakness of the weapon while emphasizing its strengths, focusing on beginning combats with unarmed punches and kicks meant to probe and provoke and opponent into giving an opening. Once the opening is attained the user unleashes the full fury of the style, dragging their massive weapon into combat to smash the opponents broken defenses with a series of devastating attacks that leave their enemies broken and shattered.

When used with Exalted proficiency the user begins to develop a powerful aura that alternates between deep crimsons and purples all the way to radiant blacks. With each strike he unleashes a wave of energy that batters the opponent, staggering and driving them back and into a corner until they can bring their heavy weapon to bear. Further, they can use this concussive force to propel themselves across the battlefield, performing dashing charges and amazing upward leaps that close on unsuspecting opponents and deliver bone shattering force.
 
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This is actually part of my next essay, but I wanted to post it now simply because I felt it was interesting. It'll probably be reposted in the upcoming completed document.

Movement in the Storyteller System

In Exalted, movement is something of a complicated beast. It has a few basic terms and rules, with modifiers on top of that, but not a lot of explanation of how it all fits together. Here's my attempt at it.

The first part of Moving in Exalted comes down to Dramatic Movement- anything that isn't handled with the Tick system. This is things like 'walking across a room' or 'making the 6 month journey to Nexus'. The latter uses an entirely different system which is rarely invoked by Charms or Artifacts, and only sometimes Sorcery.

The short version of Dramatic Movement is if you have sufficient time, you get from point A to Point B, and all it costs is time.

The second, and much more common type of movement, is Combat Movement.

Movement in Combat is described as a Reflexive, Speed 0 Action with a DV penalty of -0. It has the implied limit of 1 reflexive move action per tick. This is why movement is defined as up to [Dexterity] Yards per tick, minus Wound Penalties and Mobility Penalties. The minimum Movement speed is 1 yard per tick.

So if you have a Speed 5 action, that's 5 ticks. If you're Dexterity 3 with no penalties, That means you can move 3 yards per tick. Or move 6 yards, stop, etc. Any combination really.

A note for Players: Exalted 2e doesn't expect perfect tracking of distances in combat, but it really likes it when you have a general idea of where you're going and how far you move. It's a good idea to tell the storyteller what direction you're going and how fast.

How many ticks an Action takes up determines the maximum possible distance you can cover- real people don't move in straight lines during high-paced action, so a willingness to acknowledge 'close enough' is a good thing to keep in mind.

Using my Dex 3 example, someone moving 5 ticks in a row is 15 yards or 45 feet.

A note for Everyone: Having re-read the rules for this, (Page 145 2e core). I now believe that you essentially increment your movement by your current rate every tick unless otherwise noted. You can change your maximum possible movement rate when your DV refreshes by taking a Dash or Jump Action.

The reason I say this is the following example.

Twilight Inks is attempting to (using the Move Action) chase down a Dragonblooded pickpocket. Inks has a Dexterity of 3, so she moves 3 yards per tick. The Dragonblooded has a Dexterity of 4, so he moves 4 yards per tick.

For this example, they are starting right next to each other on the street and Tick 0. If they move for 5 ticks, the DB would pull ahead 1 yard per tick every tick, and thus eventually escape.

If Inks were one yard faster or the DB one yard slower, they would be neck and neck the whole time.

Inks can't catch the DB with just base movement. She needs to Dash. Dashing is a Speed 3, Non-reflexive action, and it adds 6 to the character's base movement rate, but in exchange for that speed, the character suffers a -2 DV penalty. They also cannot parry without a stunt or charm.

So resetting the example, Inks and DB are standing at the same point. Inks's Dashing speed is now 3+6, or 9 yards per tick. She easily outpaces the DB, and can catch him on the first tick.

Now, Dash actions as mentioned aren't Reflexive, so you either Dash, and that's your action, or you flurry. Note that flurry penalties Do not modify your Reflexive movement rates of Move Actions. A 6 attack mundane flurry will not incur a penalty to your movement rate, just your attack and action pools. If you try to flurry a Dash though, you will incur a penalty.

We had a pretty easy example for starters, let's try something more exotic. Two characters on different ticks.

We have Inks again, standing in a marketplace. She's 18 yards away from the Dragonblooded from before. She acts on Tick 2 of combat, and the Dragonblooded act on tick 4. If Ink tries to Move and Attack (Speed 0 and Speed 5), here is what will happen:

Tick 2: Inks's Acting tick: She'll move 3 yards
Tick 3: Inks move 3 more yard, total of 6
Tick 4: Inks has traversed 9 yards.
It's now the Dragonblooded's acting tick.

Even though Inks cold have gotten within 3 yards of her target over 5 ticks, the DB's turn came up before she could reach him. Now he can move- let's say he move away from Inks. He moves and takes a Misc Action (Speed 5)

Tick 4: Dragonblooded moves 4 yards, so now he's 13 yards away from Inks (9+4)
Tick 5: Inks moves another 3 yards, total of 12 traversed. DB is has moved 4 more yards from his starting position. so 0+4+4 = 8. Inks is still lagging really far behind though. She was 7 yards away from where he started at tick 4, so 7+8 = 15 yards. (As you can tell, this is pretty confusing formatted like this).
Tick 6: Inks has moved 15 yards. This is actually the last action she gets to move before her DV refreshes on Tick 7. DB has moved 12 yards. There was 9 yards of space still separating them- so DB is around 21 yards away from Inks. (Assuming I did that math right).


The point of this example is that if you cannot reach your target before their acting tick comes up, they can set their movement direction and speed to get away from you- and you have to wait until your DV refreshes to adjust!

What if Inks Dashed, way back on Tick 2?

Tick 2: Dashing Inks moves 9 yards per tick. She's now 9 yards away from her target.
Tick 3: Dashing Inks moves another 9 yards, and now she's 0 yards away from her target.
Tick 4: DB can now act, and is 0 yards away from Inks. He could try attacking her, or he could try Dashing too. His Dash rate is 4+6 yards per tick, so he automatically gains a 1 yard lead trying to get away from Inks's Dash of 9, which is going to conclude on Tick 5.


So what's the point of all this?

The big deal here of this second example, is that critical Tick 3, where Inks reached the Dragonblooded before he could act. Unfortunately, Inks can't do anything until Tick 5, because she didn't flurry. On Tick 5 when she act again, she can flurry a Dash and an Attack. This puts her 2 yards behind the Dragonblooded, but- that's close enough to attack him in melee, at least at penalty or with a stunt!

Important Note: Exalted 2e corebook does not have ranges for melee weapons. I am assuming for the purposes of this essay that a little common sense is being used. I think it's safe to assume that anyone can attack out to about 1 yard from themselves with a punch, kick or close-combat weapon.

Attacking someone who is just barely out of melee range is best modeled by a -1 or -2 External Penalty, which the Reach weapon tag partially or fully negates.

Moving Moving, lots of Moving

As previously stated, you can move [Dexterity] yards per tick minus certain penalties. You can move on your Acting Tick, and all waiting ticks, but only one Reflexive Move Action per tick. You cannot dash and move on the same tick. Once you start Dashing, you Dash at whatever speed you set yourself at before other penalties. So Move Move Move Move Move becomes Dash Dash Dash Dash Dash.

Stick and Move

The long and the short of it it is, Exalted doesn't want you to sweat fiddly positional details when dealing with melee ranges. They want you at worst, to compare values and make a fair judgement of what would happen.

If two or more people have the same movement rates after all sources of penalties (wounds, armor, terrain), then they will never change position relative to each other unless one chooses to move faster, slower, towards or away from each other.

If one person has a higher movement rate, then it is safe to assume that any attacks made on them by slower characters are made at Penalty, baring stunts, charms or the Reach Tag. Don't apply lots of penalties though. Penalties are for things like "You're constantly lagging 5+ yards behind him." Not "You're 1-2 yards away."

Player: I move 5 yards per tick. How many ticks does it take for me to reach him?
Storyteller: He's 50 yards away and not moving. Maybe you should dash.
Player: Dashing then. I move 1 tick for 11 yards. He's now 39 yards away. Has he started moving?
Storyteller: He does start moving. He's 44 yards away.
Player: So he's moving 5 yards a tick, and I'm moving 11. I still outrun him by 6… Moving for my 2nd tick.
Storyteller: 44 minus 11 equals 33, plus 5 = 38 yards away.
Player: Dashing for my 3rd tick. 38 - 11 = 27, +5 means he's 32 feet away after his move.
Storyteller: That's right! You are gaining on him.
Player: But not very fast, goddamn.

Writing this out, I have come to a realization. I personally have played Exalted 2e for a long time basically ignoring non-acting ticks, but having looked more closely at these movement rules, I believe now that the intent was to resolve each tick as a small snapshot of movement while Acting Ticks were the big updates to things like how fast you were moving and the like.

Climbing and Swimming

This is actually pretty basic- unless you have Charms, tools,Mutations or other factors that modify your movement rates, climbing and swimming are your Movement or Dash speeds cut in half after all other modifiers.

Jumping

Jumping is a Miscellaneous (Speed 5 DV -1) action.

Your default Supernatural Jump vertical distance is [Strength+Athletics] in yards. Your horizontal or 'angled' jump is double that. Both of these from standing starts. At Str 1 Ath 0, that's 3 feet straight up. At Strength 5, Athletics 5 that's 10 yards vertical, 20 horizontal.

Note that if you flurry a Jump,you will take a penalty equal to the number of actions in the flurry, as well as the rest of the penalty depending on the order of actions. Attack Attack Jump means you have -2d on the first attack, -3 on the 2nd, and -4 yards on the jump.

Jumping has no stated assumption of when you move or land within the space of the action. You could go airborne on your Acting Tick, and land when your DV refreshes. That seems reasonable, but its never stated.
 
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If Ink tries to Move and Attack (Speed 0 and Speed 5), here is what will happen:

Tick 2: Inks's Acting tick: She'll move 3 yards
Tick 3: Inks move 3 more yard, total of 6
Tick 4: Inks has traversed 9 yards.
It's now the Dragonblooded's acting tick.
I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that.
Inks acts on Tick 2. If she takes multiple actions, they all resolve on Tick 2. They don't happen some time between Tick 2 and Tick 7, they happen on Tick 2. If she's not in range on Tick 2, she can't make an attack. Period. She can take a Guard action and cancel it when she gets in range for an attack, but she can't take an Attack action and then move in range.

Otherwise, everything gets too complicated, because you make theoretical actions that might be retconned because your friend who is standing right next to the guy you ran up to attack with Awesome Combo Mk III killed him with Badass Combo Mk II the tick before you would be in range, and so you had the motes to defend against the nasty archer that hit you while you were charging.
 
I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that.
Inks acts on Tick 2. If she takes multiple actions, they all resolve on Tick 2. They don't happen some time between Tick 2 and Tick 7, they happen on Tick 2. If she's not in range on Tick 2, she can't make an attack. Period. She can take a Guard action and cancel it when she gets in range for an attack, but she can't take an Attack action and then move in range.

Otherwise, everything gets too complicated, because you make theoretical actions that might be retconned because your friend who is standing right next to the guy you ran up to attack with Awesome Combo Mk III killed him with Badass Combo Mk II the tick before you would be in range, and so you had the motes to defend against the nasty archer that hit you while you were charging.

It's questions like these that make me post these essays. I don't actually know the answer yet- I'm hoping I can get enough people looking at the books (and not getting lost in edition wars) to really figure out what's going on.
 
I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that.
Inks acts on Tick 2. If she takes multiple actions, they all resolve on Tick 2. They don't happen some time between Tick 2 and Tick 7, they happen on Tick 2. If she's not in range on Tick 2, she can't make an attack. Period. She can take a Guard action and cancel it when she gets in range for an attack, but she can't take an Attack action and then move in range.

Correct. You can also Aim, depending on whether you want to move in cautiously or offensively.

Note, however, that neither can be flurried with a Dash.

Also, since movement is Reflexive you can start moving on Tick 0 regardless of your Action Tick. So the Dragonblooded could start running immediately.

EDIT: Your best bet, to catch the fleeing Dragonblooded and attack is to Flurry a Dash, Jump and Attack.

So you take the Jump as your first action and jump (Str + Ath -3) x 2 yards closer to the target, then Dash Dex + 6 yards, then attack (at -5).

Suddenly all those reflexive Solar movement powers are a lot more useful.
 
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I'm with azoicennead for this one: Guard, then cancel to attack, mostly because movement does not have a speed. Ergo, you must take an action, be it dashing or something else, so that Tick time advances. Otherwise you get very foolish readings like "I can move infinite distance because the Action is Speed 0 and this it is still the same Tick I last moved on". Which is completely inane, but so far as I can tell is a valid reading (that any ST will kill you for using). Given you cannot attack if you do not have the person in range (well, you could but that's presumably an autofail) you can't use that to advance the Tick count either.

Though what you really should be doing is Aim actions, for the die bonus, not Guard which only resets your DV, since that doesn't matter if your DV isn't dropping.

Also, Shyft, I'm not sure I respect you or hate you right now for reminding me why I loathe 2e's movements system. At its base level, and not because of the ridiculous speed combos that came in later in the edition and basically obliterated mounts or vehicles as a speedy option in comparison. Because I have to agree with you that it was meant to be tracked on a per tick bias, to provide that snapshot of movement. It makes things like the Reflexive Jump Charms make more sense, for one.

I'm just shocked they thought anyone would, especially with the lack of ST advice on how to handle combat time movement and distances. Because even your going 'yeah, abstract it a bit', and trying to map this to maps is hell since there is no way to scale it easily. And trying to do it without maps is even moreso. Seriously, how did anyone think this was a good idea ever.
 
At the end of the day, I'm not trying to make anyone like 2e or it's systems more or less than they currently do. I hope to however give people enough information to appreciate things.

Anyway, I'm still gathering data and trying to parse more examples into a coherent 2e movement system reference, in addition to elaborating on it in my greater Essay, which deals with Solar Athletics.
 
... well, I certainly appreciate Keris a lot more now, with her base Move of 5, base Dash of 19, no penalties for climbing because she can run up vertical walls and along the undersides of ceilings, doubling of her already bullshit speed in water, reflexive Dashing and lack of any DV penalties for doing so.

And speaking of Keris; new game session, whee! In which Keris has what is only her... sixth or so onscreen meeting with a First Circle demon she didn't create herself in upwards of sixty sessions (this Infernals game doesn't actually have that many demons in it, ironically), finally meets the mysterious Deveh, and also learns the cardinal rule of stalking Second Circle Demons: Don't Get Caught. By, uh. Getting caught.

friggin' traitorous dice fairies and feline snitches and cat whisperer demons and mutter mutter sulk sulk grumble~
 
Windborn Stride adds Essence to your dashing speed and can be repurchased Essence times, Racing Vitaris triples your dashing speed, Mother Sea Mastery doubles it underwater, Dashing mutations from By Rage Recast can add up to another 6 yards when dashing, and Devil Tyrant Avatar Shintai adds Essence to your move or Dash. Cecelne has Sand Slip Trick which doubles your speed after every other modifier *(Otherwise, all the speed multipliers are added together).

Assuming an Essence 3 Dex 5 Infernal in a lifeless sea
5 (Dex) + 6 (base Dashing) + 9 (Windborne Stride x 3) + 6 (Mutations) + 3 (Devil Tyrant Avatar Shintai) = 29 Base Dash
29 Dash x (3 Racing Vitaris + 1 Mother Sea Master) = 126 Dash
Now double that for Sand Slip Trick for 252 Yards a tick!!!

And if you have Death Dealing Journey active, you dash reflexively like you would a move action. You've spent 17m, 1wp (Racing Vitaris + DTAS).

So yeah, Infernals can fucking move if they want to.
 
Windborn Stride adds Essence to your dashing speed and can be repurchased Essence times, Racing Vitaris triples your dashing speed, Mother Sea Mastery doubles it underwater, Dashing mutations from By Rage Recast can add up to another 6 yards when dashing, and Devil Tyrant Avatar Shintai adds Essence to your move or Dash. Cecelne has Sand Slip Trick which doubles your speed after every other modifier *(Otherwise, all the speed multipliers are added together).

Assuming an Essence 3 Dex 5 Infernal in a lifeless sea
5 (Dex) + 6 (base Dashing) + 9 (Windborne Stride x 3) + 6 (Mutations) + 3 (Devil Tyrant Avatar Shintai) = 29 Base Dash
29 Dash x (3 Racing Vitaris + 1 Mother Sea Master) = 126 Dash
Now double that for Sand Slip Trick for 252 Yards a tick!!!

And if you have Death Dealing Journey active, you dash reflexively like you would a move action. You've spent 17m, 1wp (Racing Vitaris + DTAS).

So yeah, Infernals can fucking move if they want to.
Ignoring that this has you spending 24xp on literally nothing but "run fasta" from Wind Born Stride alone, speed-boosters are additive, not multiplicative, and Sand-Slip Trick should really be balanced against other things like MSM - where "x2 base speed" can be taken as "add base speed again". So generously, it's more like:

5 (Dex) + 6 (Dash) + 9 (3 WBS) + 6 (mutations) + 3 (DTAS) = 29.
29 Dash x (1 base + 2 RV + 1 MSM + 1 SST) = 145 yards/tick.

Cost: Death-Dealing Journey (3m committed)+Racing Vitaris (5m)+DTAS (12m, 1wp) = 20m, 1wp. Very, very Obvious.

... and then my question, which is so fucking what? A lot of people do these PERFECTLY REASONABLE SCOURGE CALCS - and this one involves spending 68xp ignoring prereqs, most of it just on going fast, and only works when you're in full Shintai mode, flaring massively, on a desolate ocean where there is almost certainly nothing of interest - and then giggle like they've achieved something. But... so the fuck what? You can go fast - at enormous expense, in incredibly limited conditions, in places where it's very unlikely there will be a story because you're in the middle of a sea and nothing lives there. And you're still, with 68xp worth of Charms, going at... wait for it... about 3 times the speed of Stormwind Rider. Which is 20xp at most, for the Charm and Spell, and can carry an entire group. Even your result is only about five times Stormwind Rider speed - great, so you can cross featureless desert oceans in about a fifth of the time (unless they're Cecelyne). Who cares?

Yes, it's theoretically possible, but it doesn't serve any story, it doesn't produce interesting narratives, and it detracts from the actually interesting parts of playing a Scourge in favour of making everything "WAHAHAHA GIGGLE ZOOM ZOOM LOOK AT ME I'M SO ZANY AND FAST AT RUNNING."

Keris isn't interesting because of what her top speed could be if she focused her entire build on it. She's interesting because of her mobility, and what she does with it - like how she loves dragging fights into the water, where penalties to her opponents are bonuses to her, so she's got a four-fold advantage over them, and how that shapes her behaviour into an amphibious water-demon who lurks in the watering hole waiting for you like a crocodile, and who makes entire communities afraid to set foot on the beach.
 
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I'm still not sure how the Dash and movement really work.

When you Dash as a non-reflexive action don't you run Dex+6 once and your speed tick falls three ticks?

As in:

Tick 1: Dash action, moves Dex+6
Tick 2: can't act
Tick 3: can't act
Tick 4: can act again
 
I'm still not sure how the Dash and movement really work.

When you Dash as a non-reflexive action don't you run Dex+6 once and your speed tick falls three ticks?

As in:

Tick 1: Dash action, moves Dex+6
Tick 2: can't act
Tick 3: can't act
Tick 4: can act again
My reading is you spend three ticks moving at your Dash speed.
That's my understanding as well. It sets your movement speed to Dex+6 until your next action.
 
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