- Location
- Gladstone, OR
I've no idea what they are, so I can't say. Do you dislike them for in-character reasons, or bad-writing reasons?
General Exalted Thread
I've no idea what they are, so I can't say. Do you dislike them for in-character reasons, or bad-writing reasons?
- Location
- Singapore
I think they're the guys in the bureau of seasons stuck in a permanent gridlock.
- Location
- U.S.
So...the average Yu-shan department?
- Location
- Singapore
More like the average government department.... but yes.
They are the guys who take a significant and dynamic part of any world and turn it into Equestria with bears. I haaaaaaaaaaaate them.
greensun
You shall all burn beneath my light!!!
- Location
- U.S.
I am also just getting more confused.
- Location
- United States
The Council of Winds, the elemental court of the Wind Masters, claims authority over every air elemental in Creation. Though they're not the only dragons to claim authority over all elementals of their sort, no other dragons can count on as many elementals to agree and submit. The Council of Winds is also the elemental court with the strongest remaining ties to Yu-Shan—though the great bears retain independence from the Bureau of Seasons' full control, they nevertheless works eagerly with the Celestial storm serpent Nasri and Shogun-Regent Ghataru. The Wind Masters need the support of Heaven, for only this cooperation provides for them the leniency they require to pursue their endless military crusades against the elementals of water. For the past 1,000 years, the elementals of air have waged pogrom after pogrom against the water elementals, decimating the ranks of the latter and ensuring that the air elementals have control over the courts of the North and the West.
Roll of Glorious Divinity pg 40 talks about them
Roll of Glorious Divinity pg 40 talks about them
That description contains a healthy dose of personal bias, of course.
Basically, the lesser elemental dragons who run the Council of Winds are bear-headed dragons, and their main servants are bear wind spirits.
They control and regulate the weather, and that makes me mad enough to chew nails, because, imo, weather should be the last thing in all of Creation to be smoothly and reliably operated.
- Location
- United States
A little bad weather makes prayer go up, but too much bad weather makes prayer drop to unacceptable levels.
RedV
Refuelling
- Location
- Right here
Isn't every aspect of life in Creation under divine oversight? I don't even think bear-dragons are neccesarily doing a particularly good job, but everything has a formal office in Heaven. Given how bad Yu-Shan's bureaucracy generally is, it's unlikely most things (including weather) are exactly on plan* though generally it works like 'normal'.
Are they called out as being particularly effective at their job or something like that?
*the image of bear-dragons cheering and sending dramatic thunderclouds at popcorn moments is pretty funny tho
Are they called out as being particularly effective at their job or something like that?
*the image of bear-dragons cheering and sending dramatic thunderclouds at popcorn moments is pretty funny tho
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- Location
- U.S.
I mean, it's the sort of thing you REALLY want controlled? The Realm has an entire office of Thaumaturges to exactingly control their weather, but msot of Creation will pray really, really hard for good weather.
Yes, there is a God for everything, even if there really doesn't need to be. I would note though that the Bureau of Seasons literally makes the Seasons. They might not do a great job, but they are at least basally functional, and it's leadership is not terribly corrupt.
...Kinda? Ghataru, head of the Aerial Legion, and thus the Bureau of Seasons as a whole, is pretty much incorruptable....but he's also unwilling to actually use his power without Solar approval, because he is big on rule adherence and technically he does not have the authority to march the Legion into Creation. Ghataru is a stand up guy, unfortunately his strict rule adherence and extreme willpower in the face of those trying to convince him to do things means he does very little, because RULES. This means he also has to be paranoid, because lots of people want to murder him and replace him with someone more pliable. It would be hard though, because he's a monster in combat fitting his position as head of Yu-shan's military. His second, Nazri, is also in love with him, also powerful, and also basically a standup moral serpent monster as much as a Storm Serpent can be, but is in love with her boss and this clouds her judgement.
Oh yeah, that's another reason weather control is important. In big thunderstorms Storm Serpents can spontaneously form. They live and die with their storm normally, but for their short lives are very dangerous, even to Exalts. They can do a lot of damage if left alone, and so not having those appear is kind of a big deal in a lot of large population centers. That means a lot of rewards for those who keep them away, thus Gods willing to shape weather.
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
Actually, I have a question.
I have repeatedly scoured the 2E books for the explanation just fucking why does there exist a feud perpetrated by the air elementals against the water elementals. I have found no explanation.
So. WHY is there a feud?
Maybe not particularly effective, but certainly particularly organized, an more importantly, particularly monolithic/centralized. I would have much less of a problem if "spirits who control the weather" and "spirits under the authority of the Council of Winds" weren't basically synonymous.
Sure, but the people of Creation would want a lot of things to be controlled, and they are often disappointed. That weather, of all things, is one of the things that is, in my eyes lessens the setting and murders dozens of potential story hooks or bits of setting flavor in the cradle.
Like you said, most of Creation is willing to pray really hard for good weather, so why is the Council of Winds functional and relatively corruption free instead of rife with Elon Musk levels of extortion?
Edit: No, not Elon Musk. Martin Shkreli. How the hell did I mix up those two?
I should note, that I have zero problems with the Bureau of Seasons. Climates being regulated are fine, seasons being regulated are fine, weather being regulated is not fine.
So, here's the thing. Storm Serpents, and what they say about the setting, embody at least 40% of why I hate how Exalted handles weather, with the Council of Winds and assorted other pet peeves making up the rest.
Storm Serpents are among, if not the, most dangerous types of air elemental. They are among the most powerful and dangerous types of elemental below the Elemental Dragons, flat out. And they show up with big thunderstorms.
Big. Thunderstorms.
Storm Serpents are fucking lame, yet they're the biggest, nastiest weather spirits out there. The regulation of the weather would be a lot more palatable to me if a lot of the work the Council of Winds did was the thankless, often impossible task of shepherding massive hurricane-behemoths, each unique with their own name; keeping them from wiping coastal cities off the map and doing damage control on all the lesser storms the the hurricane spirits spew forth as they travel inland, until they exhaust themselves and fly back to sea to slumber.
But noooo. We need to child proof Creation's weather, and keep it centralized and regulated, so that people are protected from the horrors of fucking thunderstorms.
I feel your pain. As far as I can tell, and having looked through Games of Divinity as well, the Air Elementals just one day got together and said, "Hey, you know those water elementals? Fuck those guys."
That would make sense if the Air Elementals oppressed the Water Elementals, but less so when the Air Elementals are going on an organized, active campaign of genocide.
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Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I don't know where this is coming from. Why would a spirit of thunderstorms work to protect human beings from their own domain, any more than disease spirits prevent pestilence or war gods promote peace and brotherhood. And this is assuming they've can actually promote an agenda; Storm Serpents are animals and couldn't do something like that even if they were so inclined.
To look at the Council of Winds:
A) Blue bear wants to freeze the entire world.
B) Green bear is obviously corrupt.
C) Black bear is easy to use, so long as you can frame your suggestion in a way that fucks over water elementals.
D) Red bear's a cool guy who listens to mortal petitioners and could probably be recruited by a persuasion focused Celestial.
E) White bear ain't give a fuck.
Where are you getting "child proofing" out of this?
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- Location
- United States
Exalted is an animistic setting. The weather doesn't just happen, it has to be planned and arranged by Gods and Elementals.But noooo. We need to child proof Creation's weather, and keep it centralized and regulated, so that people are protected from the horrors of fucking thunderstorms.
Note that this doesn't mean that the weather is perfectly suited for humankind. Only in places like the Realm, where they can strong arm gods into obeying do they get idyllic weather patterns. And even then it's not "child proofed".
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AmineHsu
A worm, not a man, scorned and despised.
- Location
- NoVA
Clearly it's cause Water Elementals don't have souls.
- Location
- U.S.
They aren't. Almost any god can learn to manipulate local weather. Hell, mortals can learn to manipulate local weather. The Council of Winds does not have a monopoly on Weather Control. It's too accessible. Field God? Easily could make it rain. Ocean Father? Yeah, he can whip up a storm. Hell, Storm Mothers sure as fuck manipulate weather, and sure as fuck don't answer to the Council of Winds.
Fear. They need Celestial backing, that backing is from the Bureau of Seasons. Ghataru hates corruption, so does Nazri. Nazri also likely has a reputation as a hardass/violent bitch after she made of Ryzala. Nazri was willing to murder the worshippers oft he head of the Bureau of Heaven en-mass to make a point. What might she do to subordinate who betray her trust? How much might she get away with?
...If you regulate Climates and Seasons, weather is going to be pretty stable.
I think your perspective may be off. The base Storm Serpent isn't that big a deal to a Celestial. It is a nasty threat to many DBs though, and capable of destroying a moderate settlement rapidly if left unchecked. They are Terrifying Mortal Peril to 99% of Creation.
Thunderstorms are not the issue. The murderous spirits capable of destroying towns are. Besides, most Creation societies are very low down the tech tree. Nasty winds can damage crops, leading to famine. So can flooding from heavy rain. A stray lightning bolt could start a fire that destroys a ramshackle thatch-roofed village. A Thunderstorm is itself a thing to consider, but when you put a powerful, murderous intent behind it, capable of magic? Yeah, beg the Gods. Beg hard, you need their help.But noooo. We need to child proof Creation's weather, and keep it centralized and regulated, so that people are protected from the horrors of fucking thunderstorms.
- Location
- Ottawa
Nasri.
Normally I don't quibble about typos, but Nazri and Nasri are actually both very powerful and very scary denizens of Yu-Shan.
Nasri's the storm serpent, Nazri's the Sidereal.
Presumably Hurricane Worms also exist, and just don't get much press because hurricanes are rare.
From my ass and hate-tinted lens, mostly. I'm not gonna go ahead and claim that my dislike is wholly rational and logical.
Indeed, not gonna deny that part of my dislike comes from the friction of what is logical for the setting and its themes grinding against how I would like weather in Exalted to work.
Yeah, not denying that my bias colors my ranting.
Mortals can control the weather with the help of spirits from the Council of Winds depending on edition, and in both 1e and 2e they certainly did so at the Council's sufferance.
I'll give the other gods being able to manipulate weather, I'll give you Storm Mothers twice over, but, uh, frankly I'd prefer it if "stuff like Storm Mothers and random gods controlling the weather in case-by-case or local basis" was the norm across Creation, and not the Council of Winds.
I doubt that's viable, but it's what I'd prefer.
That's a fair point.
- Location
- United States
Oh. Well...
I don't know how to have a... productive conversation when it's just a case of "I don't like it because i don't like it"? Best advice I can offer is change it when you run a game where they come up?
Elementals that are basically MLP-ponies with the serial numbers filed off should totally be a thing in Creation
Hurricane-kaijus existing would basically mean that it is totally possible for some powerful enough asshole to sabotage the weather management teams and send the thing flying towards the Realm or something.
I can see it now:
"Breaking news! Council of Winds assassinated by perfidious anathema! Hurricane Wyrm Iudex to reach landfall on the western coast of the Blessed Isle!"
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Well it was productive to me, since I got to bitch about things!
Also, this conversation and mulling it over through the course of a cookout, has led me to what I believe is the true source of my frustration with how weather is handled in Exalted: despite who big and important a part of life weather should be, it rarely does anything to shape cultures in Creation.
For example, you have the Storm Mothers, and to deal with them "women" are forbidden from being sailors unless they're red-heads. That's cool and interesting. Because of the need to appease the volcano gods, crimes in the Wavecrest Archipelago are punished by jail times of various lengths, so that there will always be people to throw in the volcano to appease the gods. That's cool and interesting.
Why is there not more of that kind of thing?
I guess I feel that the Council of WInds reduces opportunities for complexity and different methods for people dealing with the environmental dangers around them and the spirits that control them, which give rise to unique and interesting cultural quirks. Those quirks exist, but I feel that the Council of Winds reduces opportunities for them to arise.
Or there is a small storm that no one considers dangerous enough to be worth bothering with, but then some foul anathema drag a bunch of magical tropical water into the storm's path, causing it to abruptly swell in power; a panic ensues because the Hurricane Wyrm is now too close to the Blessed Isle to stop it in time.
mothematics
How wide is the concept of "you"?
- Location
- the bottom of a coffee cup
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Sudden horrible, amazing thought: Bugs Bunny as a TAW Lunar Elder. He is the very essence of chaos and indefinition, the Might-Be Hare.