What? No, lots of higher demons want to go to Creation. Like, say, Octavian canonically does.
Well what he wants is to expand his empire into Creation. He can't do that because there's the five day walk through a infinite silver spite desert to get into creation. 2nd and 3rd circle demons are going to vary in their goals, but traveling into creation is still going to be a pain in the ass and they have to weigh the risks in doing so.
 
Does anyone have any good images for what a Tetsubo styled Grand Goremaul looks like? It needs something to give it scale, like being wielded. I've tried looking on Google for the past fifteen minutes, but I haven't found anything useful.
 
All demons have their own little escape clauses that are like you walking around and noticing a fresh $100 bill (or whatever your local currency equivalent is) on the ground. Somewhere in creation something happens and it opens a tiny crack in hell and if there's an appropiate demon around to capitalize on it, they'll try and escape. I assume that only the appropriate demon can notice the crack and I'm also assuming that it doesn't bypass the 5 day travel time through the endless desert. Now... nothing stops any demon from leaving hell by traveling for five days through Cecelyne, as long as Cecelyne doesn't smite them because they offend her in some manner (and she strikes me as notoriously easy to offend, even for a Yozi), as long as they don't get killed by all the predators that live in her infinite sands, as long as they avoid any non-Yozi directed natural cataclysms like continent-sized sandstorms strip flesh from bone or corrosive monsoons or micro-bursts. But even assuming any demon passing through an actively hostile environment like that is capable of doing so, they have to know the right paths. The cracks do the work of guiding the demon out of hell, but absent one of those most first circle demons are shit out of luck because those paths aren't common knowledge (and the ones that are common knowledge are probably thick with demon bandits that prey on escapees).

2nd and 3rd circle demons are more aware of the paths to creation, but have less desire to leave hell because in hell they are the upper crust (and it's only marginally safer for them to cross the endless desert). In Creation you get asshole monks and sidereals and dragonblooded who put a lot of effort into kicking their asses back to hell, while in Hell you have palaces and hordes of demons who are required by law to obey you.
I always kind of liked the Ligier escape clause. His clause has decent odds of him showing up at a Solar Exaltation!
 
...so its one of those games where you start the game and immediately run into the End Boss who stomps you into the ground and declares you not worth killing, setting you on track for a shit load of grinding?
 
Adorjan has the merit that at least your unpleasant fate will be quick.
 
This reminds me of something I saw on a different board:
"If you had to go on a date with one of the Yozis, which one would you choose?"
Qaf. He has admirable personal thematics and would be mostly solitary, and so I would
  • Minimise threat to life by reducing time spent with him
  • Maybe learn something about enlightenment
  • Only occasionally have to deal with him when he isn't meditating.
The only problem is that Qaf is a 'he'.
 
Well what he wants is to expand his empire into Creation. He can't do that because there's the five day walk through a infinite silver spite desert to get into creation. 2nd and 3rd circle demons are going to vary in their goals, but traveling into creation is still going to be a pain in the ass and they have to weigh the risks in doing so.

I disagree honestly, not in the details I mean. A lot of 2CD's have empires and shit and suddenly popping out to go nuke an adventuring party on the behalf of some asshole in a tower is a huge pain for any head of state. But I guess in the overall gist? I mean the impression I always got from Hell was that- well I mean it's hell. 1CD's don't want to be there, the demons that made them don't want to be there either. The Yozi are the bricks and mortar of the place and they hate it and have something on the order of five thousand years worth of cabin fever layered on top. For lesser demons its partly just the environment. Like, I mean, you can have quiet in Creation without instantly getting stripped to the skeleton and your bones being blasted to dust. Isidoros isn't going to randomly step on you. The continent sized shell you've lived on for the past three hundred years and all your shit's on isn't going to suddenly go flying into another one because Malfeas needed to itch his big brass balls. Metagaos isn't going to try and grow through your brain. You can have nice things without having to constantly defend it from other maurauding demons. Humans are everywhere, provide worship as easy as breathing (demons worshiping each other doesn't give the same benefits or power iirc), and for like 90% of them you can just trivially put your hand on their head and watch them windmill their arms at you.

From the perspective of a demon Creation is nice. Sure there's the Wyld Hunt and angry gods but the Hunt can't be everywhere, the Dragonblooded don't idly annihilate an entire country because they got bored one morning, and gods are often wonderfully corrupt. And sure, yeah, you can be the big-dicked badass of Shell #342 aka "that bit by the coast of the seething hateful sea filled with chemical run off and tentacles" but that can't really hold a candle to a slice of real estate Creation-side.

Like, I mean most demons have the lifespan of a pyromaniac moth. For 1CD's just having a cult on the order of a village is an almost incalculable QoL improvement. For 2CD's and 3CD's though it is different yeah but I'd honestly say it kinda comes down on the other part of things. Sure they have nice things in Malfeas, but ultimately Malfeas doesn't matter. Nothing that happens there really matters in and of itself. Demons scheme and plot and plan but at the end of the day all they're really fighting over is who gets the nice corner cellblock with the tiny slit-window. And demons are a lot of things but they really like mattering, I mean these are creatures that built the world and ruled it. Just having a taste of it again is nice. So any 2CD or 3CD, even if they have big impressive plans, is passing up a huge opportunity to just go to Creation and hang out. You can get worshippers in Creation. You can get jade and slaves and neat shit that you couldn't get in the brass-basalt-oh-god-what-the-fuck landscape of Malfeas in a million years. You can make inroads to help make sure you get summoned again and again.

Honestly I'm taking a lot of words to restate what I said at the beginning mostly. Almost nobody really wants to be in Hell, they're just stuck there and making the best of it. Like it's worth noting that Hell was made to hold the Yozi. Demons could have a much easier time escaping if the Yozi weren't so hateful and bitter and intent on ensuring that everyone was going to suffer with them like it or not. Which kinda knocks a few holes in the "they prefer it" angle tbh. Or, at least, highlights the "they're not really there because they enjoy it" aspect.

"If you had to go on a date with one of the Yozis, which one would you choose?"

isidoros 10/10 would bang
 
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I would note that a demon in Creation can't just shrug off all their conditioning, and will probably not appreciate the way that the sky is illegal, the silence makes them paranoid that Adorjan is coming, the sun hurts and the moon fogs their mind, etc.

But that just means they'll try to taint the area to be more comfortable and set up a bit of clamour to make it feel homey and possibly force nearby mortals to put big tall buildings with canvases strung between them everywhere so that they don't have to see the Unspeakable Colour and feel like a Priest of Cecelyne is about to pop out from just around a corner and murder them.
 
Deserve is always a tricky one, especially when the options are 'be reduced to a crippled prisoner for the rest of eternity, while your paraded around in front of your captors' and 'die and then get stuck in the mouth of oblivion as you slowly rot'.
 
And demons are a lot of things but they really like mattering, I mean these are creatures that built the world and ruled it. Just having a taste of it again is nice. So any 2CD or 3CD, even if they have big impressive plans, is passing up a huge opportunity to just go to Creation and hang out. You can get worshippers in Creation. You can get jade and slaves and neat shit that you couldn't get in the brass-basalt-oh-god-what-the-fuck landscape of Malfeas in a million years. You can make inroads to help make sure you get summoned again and again.
I'm reminded of a quote from a (long-deceased) webcomic. It's far more appropriate for a forgotten god - in fact, that's who said it in the webcomic - but still.

"I might not have had many followers, but I was all that stood between them and extinction. Their belief in me shone as bright as the sun..."
 
the sun hurts and the moon fogs their mind, etc.
I still hate the "the moon makes Creatures of Death into drooling retards" idea. It's rather hard to tell effective ghost stories when you have to edit the moon out of every undead scenario, or else that dead samurai ever seeking his lord's killer will spend 70% of his time wandering in circles and headbutting the scenery.
 
I still hate the "the moon makes Creatures of Death into drooling retards" idea. It's rather hard to tell effective ghost stories when you have to edit the moon out of every undead scenario, or else that dead samurai ever seeking his lord's killer will spend 70% of his time wandering in circles and headbutting the scenery.
Ghost stories get to be on cloudy nights.

Nights with the full moon are for zombie stories.
 
I'm reminded of a quote from a (long-deceased) webcomic. It's far more appropriate for a forgotten god - in fact, that's who said it in the webcomic - but still.

"I might not have had many followers, but I was all that stood between them and extinction. Their belief in me shone as bright as the sun..."
I can't help but feel that a story about a brutish demon struggling to protect a (mostly) benign cult of mortal worshippers from the horrors of Creation would be utterly amazing.
 
I would note that a demon in Creation can't just shrug off all their conditioning, and will probably not appreciate the way that the sky is illegal, the silence makes them paranoid that Adorjan is coming, the sun hurts and the moon fogs their mind, etc.

But that just means they'll try to taint the area to be more comfortable and set up a bit of clamour to make it feel homey and possibly force nearby mortals to put big tall buildings with canvases strung between them everywhere so that they don't have to see the Unspeakable Colour and feel like a Priest of Cecelyne is about to pop out from just around a corner and murder them.

Or, to put it another way, demons encourage their followers to never go outside and instead spend all their time in lightless rooms listening to loud music.

Truly heavy metal is the work of the devil!
 
...so its one of those games where you start the game and immediately run into the End Boss who stomps you into the ground and declares you not worth dating, setting you on track for a shit load of grinding?
Not so much.
IIRC(AFB due to being at work) there's a very slim chance of Ligier escaping Malfeas for a very short time at sunrise/sunset, when a smith creates a perfect work(hi Twilight), a mortal prince takes on the Exalted in battle(hi Dawn), or a beautiful unwed queen takes control of a court(hi Eclipse, also is Ligier looking for a wife or something?), upon which he appears until the sun finishes crossing the horizon. As it turns out, these are moments which solidly counts as a solar exaltation moment.

It's more like he shows up to congratulate you for being cool, and he's gone in less than an hour anyways. It's not like he's required to fight you...though being rude in such circumstances is likely ill advised...
...and I'm not sure if the typical mortal present could identify Ligier successfully..
 
Not so much.
IIRC(AFB due to being at work) there's a very slim chance of Ligier escaping Malfeas for a very short time at sunrise/sunset, when a smith creates a perfect work(hi Twilight), a mortal prince takes on the Exalted in battle(hi Dawn), or a beautiful unwed queen takes control of a court(hi Eclipse, also is Ligier looking for a wife or something?), upon which he appears until the sun finishes crossing the horizon. As it turns out, these are moments which solidly counts as a solar exaltation moment.

It's more like he shows up to congratulate you for being cool, and he's gone in less than an hour anyways. It's not like he's required to fight you...though being rude in such circumstances is likely ill advised...
...and I'm not sure if the typical mortal present could identify Ligier successfully..
I have to ask, though:

If Ligier has a chance to escape whenever a mortal prince goes to battle against an Exalt, shouldn't that mean he pops up in Creation all the freaking time (mortal princes going to war against a Dragon-Blooded of the Realm, Lookshy or some Outcaste, a Lunar-led horde or even the occasional force led by a disguised Sidereal, and this is before the Jade Prison breaking, when there are fewer than a couple dozen Solar Exaltations around)?

I mean, I get it that he gets barely a few hours at most, but that's still a few hours very, very often when compared to some of the escape clauses of other demons. Even if it's only, say, a 1/1000 chance, there are a lot of mortal princes waging battle against some Exalt at any given period.
 
I mean, I get it that he gets barely a few hours at most, but that's still a few hours very, very often when compared to some of the escape clauses of other demons. Even if it's only, say, a 1/1000 chance, there are a lot of mortal princes waging battle against some Exalt at any given period.
It's "taking on the Exalted in battle", so I read it as taking them one to one man on man in a fight. Not many mortals willing to do that, especially not princes (who have real options like siccing a regiment of armed bodyguards on them or hiring a Sorceror and a squadron of first circles/elementals or appealing to their City Father).
 
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It's "taking on the Exalted in battle", so I read it as taking them one to one man on man in a fight. Not many mortals willing to do that, especially not princes.
The text says "leading his army against Exalted foes", so it's leading in battle, not personally fighting one of them.

And depending on the definition of a prince (crown prince? Any son of a ruler? Rulers with the title of Prince? Son of a ruler even if not in a monarchial system?), there could be a lot of them around, and there are a lot of battles they can lead in. Hell, you could easily get battles where you have multiple princes leading forces in the same army or several allied armies against an Exalted foe or Exalted-led force, vastly increasing the odds of Ligier's arrival.
 
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