- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
Well, yeah. You've told us what happens if we fight Nemesis and it's not 'gg no rolls', so even that is possible. Just absurdly difficult.
EPIC: A Quest of Modern Mythology
- Thread starter Kaelor
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- My own little world...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I've learned I have to mention these things...
Pandemonious Ivy
Panties, Revolution. Big Drawers. Parachute.
"I didn't have a father because you left. I had an insane mother because of you leaving. And now you want to show up, just to kill the mother I'm trying to cure?"
We got this.
We got this.
Heaven Canceler
I would like to have a cool title.
- Location
- Austria
"It's not her fault she was born with a faulty human brain! Please dad, go complain to the Fates, they are the ones responsible for all this!"
Edit: Actually, we can probably blaim the Fates for everything that happens depending on how far along our destiny we are.
Pandemonious Ivy
Panties, Revolution. Big Drawers. Parachute.
Eh. She deserves it and it's more likely to be effective.
Also it's describing her own dickishness so....
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Happy Halloween everyone!
"I-See-You."
Ya-Te-Veo, the legendary man-eating plant of Madagascar.
How sexist! Women can be eaten too!
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
... Compare with 'Worm', and I don't mean the 'Iran' part ...
- Location
- My own little world...
That's just the title the locals gave it. The creature itself is much more egalitarian: according to Carl Liche's account, the thing has zero problems eating females.
Yeah, the two pretty much have nothing to do with each other save for wisdom and flight. I believe Wildbow said he only used the name 'Simurgh' because the real airborne counterpart to Leviathan and Behemoth is 'Ziz'...which doesn't sound nearly as intimidating.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That's interesting; especially because "sound nearly as intimidating" depends on the audience and their preconceptions.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I was just yanking your chain. Yeah, the Simurgh's neat.
- Location
- My own little world...
True enough I suppose. Ziz is extremely intimidating if you know what it is...but that being said, most people don't. Behemoth and Leviathan are literally defined as 'a huge or monstrous creature' and 'a thing that is very large or powerful, especially a ship', respectively, yet Ziz is not synonymous with anything. That suggests something.
Let us abandon their legends for the moment. From the perspective of an English speaking audience, the sound "Ziz" is reminiscent of buzzing, indicating something small or possibly electrical. A wasp or other insect, perhaps. If you approached a random person on the street and asked if they'd rather be attacked by a Ziz or a Simurgh, which do you think they'd pick, based only the names?
The Jabberwocky is a good study in this sort of naming convention. "Vorpal", "Jabberwock", "Beemish", "Slithy", and half the other words in the poem are just made up: they have no real meaning. While some are explained later on in the book, you can read the poem as-is and still figure out roughly what they mean from the sound of the words and the context in which they are used. "Frumious Bandersnatch", based off the dictionary definition, has exactly as much meaning as "Mimsy Borogove", yet just from the way they sound we can guess which is supposed to be the more dangerous.
This is common even in other media. Compare the sounds of "Sauron", "Saruman", and "Gríma" to "Aragorn", "Théoden", and "Gandalf". Compare "Dumbledore" and "Voldemort". The sound of a name often implies something about the thing being named, at least in stories.
As such, I can't really blame Wildbow for using Simurgh over Ziz. Based off the way it sounds to an English-speaking audience, Simurgh is the better name, and even in the context of its legend the name does fit the creature quite well. Since Simurgh is also sometimes identified as Ziz in-story, it's likely the Western media simply decided to use Simurgh over Ziz because in English it makes for a better headline/soundbite.
I assumed, but I never miss the chance to elaborate on a legend. It's a failing of mine.
Heaven Canceler
I would like to have a cool title.
- Location
- Austria
Curiously, neither Simurgh nor Ziz are malovelent in their actual myth. Ziz protects the world from storms and all sorts of stuff and Simurgh is a being of purification and fertility. It is all a thing of language now vs. language then I guess.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Perhaps also a thing of what the author considered appropriate attributes of <extraordinary creature>, based on his actual culture/envisioned culture. Take Zeus, Hera, matrimony and their respective behavior; contrast with Greek culture (and a possible move from a former matriarchal society to a patriarchal one).
- Location
- My own little world...
Ah. Found it. It would seem the name 'Simurgh' was assigned to the Endbringer when it first appeared in 2002. At the time it was pretending to be benevolent. It wasn't until later that its true abilities and malicious nature were revealed, and it was was classified as the third Endbringer. This makes the names all make sense: Ziz was added later to match Leviathan and Behemoth, but as people were already used to calling it Simurgh the name stuck for most people. It also explains why a creature of world-ending malevolence is named after a benevolent mythological creature, and why it doesn't match the naming scheme of its siblings.
That said, I think it is time we put this topic to bed, as there are other places to discuss Worm (as awesome a story as it might be).
The Sea-Path
- Location
- My own little world...
[X] The Sea-Path
"What was this Sea-Path that my father barred after she left?" you ask, letting the earlier topic drop.
"That's actually...kind of hard to explain. No offence, Imouto, but you humans have problems understanding matters of spirit," responds the Mizuchi carefully. "You see the world as though it were rock: solid and unchanging. The mystical realms are far more fluid."
"I'll try to keep up," you state dryly, leaning back in your chair.
"Okay, but I warned you..." the dragon says with a shake of its head. "Long, long ago, the Land and Sea Kingdoms were not as divided as they are now. It was difficult to travel from one to the other, but passage was not impossible."
You had no idea what these 'Land' and 'Sea' Kingdoms were supposed to be, you'd certainly never heard of them, but you shelve your question for later. Interrupting now would be pointless.
"While some people were like me and could travel freely between the Kingdoms with their own magic, most could get there using the Sea-Path. The journey was not for the faint of heart: those who fell from the path would either be swallowed by the sea or left helpless and gasping on the land. Only the wisest or most desperate attempted to use it."
"I'm not sure I fully understand," you admit. "If you want to go to the sea, why not get a boat?"
"I did warn you, Imouto. The Sea-Path isn't about traveling distance. Any idiot can beach themselves on land or throw themselves into the sea. The Sea-Path allowed people to journey to the other Kingdom and be welcome there even though they were foreigners," explained your Mizuchi. "Look. If you just jumped into the ocean, you'd sink and drown, right?"
Privately, you have an urge to correct his assumption and point out that you can swim perfectly well, thank you, but you can tell he's going somewhere with this. You keep your thoughts to yourself and just nod.
"Right. But if you had traveled by the Sea-Path, you would still sink, but you would not drown. You would be like the inhabitants of the Sea Kingdom: able to breathe under the water and walk around just like you were still on land. They can do the same thing. A fish that took the Sea-Path wouldn't flop around until it dried out and died, it would be start swimming over the land like it does over the bed of the ocean."
"So it was basically a mystical portal that let land creatures breathe underwater and sea creatures swim around on land?" you repeat, to make sure you fully understand. "Where was it?"
"Again, you're looking at this like a human, Imouto. The spiritual world isn't like garbage in your books: the Sea-Path was all places and no place. You could get to the Path on any shoreline, because it was a way of traveling only in the sense that walking or swimming are ways of traveling. It was how you stepped, not where you stepped." The dragon pauses to think about what it said. "That actually sounded kind of cool. Maybe we should set up a shrine or something and give out wisdom!"
"But my father was still able to block it, even though it wasn't a physical location," You point out, ignoring your companion's most recent suggestion. This spiritual crap was giving you a headache. You preferred quantum mechanics, those still somehow made more sense. "How did that work?"
"Imouto, your Divine Father is a kind soul. She wanted to strengthen the Sea-Path, so any who wished to use it could do so without risk. Humans wouldn't have to worry about drowning their stupid selves anymore, and the sea creatures could go on land whenever they wanted. Her Kingdom would fully united with that of her husband's. But the asshole took one look at her true form and ran, breaking your father's heart. His betrayal made her think the two Kingdoms could never exist side-by-side, so she grasped the Sea-Boundary and pulled it closed, shutting the Sea-Path for good. Now only a very few can go freely between the Land and Sea Kingdoms."
"Back up. What's the 'Sea-Boundary'?"
"The two Kingdoms are separated by a spiritual boundary, Imouto. It's what keeps the two apart. Without the Sea-Boundary, the seas would flow into the land, causing chaos for both humans and gods. The ocean is vast and deep, but the land has power all its own. Sea gods would battle earth gods for control of the new world, and the devastation would be immeasurable. The Sea-Boundary was created by the Primordials during the forging of the world for a very good reason, and all gods know to respect this divide."
"Just a second ago you said my father wanted to expand the Sea-Path. Wouldn't that cause problems for this 'barrier?'" Frankly, it sounded like your father had been about to destroy the world with her 'benevolence', but you assumed from the way your dragon had talked about it there was more to the story.
"Not the same thing. Destroying the Sea-Boundary would cause massive devastation, but your Divine Father knew this and would never let it happen. Besides, she couldn't if she wanted to: even your August Grandfather isn't strong enough to wreck the Sea-Boundary on his own. What Toyotama-hime was going to do was slightly widen a gap that already existed in the Boundary. Think of it like a dam. Poke a small hole, and a harmless stream of water comes out. Smash a big hole, and you get a flood."
You consider pointing out that those small holes have a tendency to become big holes after a while, but you aren't sure the metaphor would still apply to spiritual boundaries. Since the Sea-Path was now shut, it really didn't matter either way. Though speaking of that...
"So if my father used the Sea-Boundary to close the Path, could someone else manipulate the Boundary to reverse it?" you ask. "Could they reopen the Sea-Path?"
"Sure, I guess. No one's ever tried, since the sea gods mostly seem to prefer having the Path closed anyway, but there are probably ways to do it. Imouto, you aren't thinking of..."
"Maybe. Mostly, I just want to know what my options are," you state, your thoughts beginning to drift.
Reopen the Sea-Path... The more you think about it, the more you really want to try it. Your blood is practically humming at the opportunity. Yes, you could definitely do it. Analyse the Sea-Boundary at different points, then construct a device capable of bypassing or strategically weakening it so passage was again possible. You might even be able to go further and do what your father had wanted: strengthen the Path so anyone could use it. No more drowning. No more expensive gear to study sea life. People could fish for food on land!
You instantly bring that line of logic to a crashing halt. These urges...they weren't yours. They were your Legend. You had no doubt that reopening the Sea-Path was just the sort of quest your Heroic nature yearned for, and you weren't letting Fate or anyone else decide what you were going to do. It was time for a break. This 'Sea-Path' thing, you could come back to it later. Maybe you would go for it, if it still seemed like a good idea, but you were going to do it on your terms. No rushing off on a whim.
Glancing at the clock, you can see you've still got a decent amount of time left in the day...
---
Now what?
[ ] Continue questioning your Mizuchi.
-[ ] About what?
[ ] Build something!
-[ ] Build what?
-[ ] When would you like it finished?
[ ] Call the number Lucy gave you.
[ ] Do some research.
-[ ] On what?
-[ ] What resources will you use (library, internet, spirits, etc)?
[ ] Write in.
"What was this Sea-Path that my father barred after she left?" you ask, letting the earlier topic drop.
"That's actually...kind of hard to explain. No offence, Imouto, but you humans have problems understanding matters of spirit," responds the Mizuchi carefully. "You see the world as though it were rock: solid and unchanging. The mystical realms are far more fluid."
"I'll try to keep up," you state dryly, leaning back in your chair.
"Okay, but I warned you..." the dragon says with a shake of its head. "Long, long ago, the Land and Sea Kingdoms were not as divided as they are now. It was difficult to travel from one to the other, but passage was not impossible."
You had no idea what these 'Land' and 'Sea' Kingdoms were supposed to be, you'd certainly never heard of them, but you shelve your question for later. Interrupting now would be pointless.
"While some people were like me and could travel freely between the Kingdoms with their own magic, most could get there using the Sea-Path. The journey was not for the faint of heart: those who fell from the path would either be swallowed by the sea or left helpless and gasping on the land. Only the wisest or most desperate attempted to use it."
"I'm not sure I fully understand," you admit. "If you want to go to the sea, why not get a boat?"
"I did warn you, Imouto. The Sea-Path isn't about traveling distance. Any idiot can beach themselves on land or throw themselves into the sea. The Sea-Path allowed people to journey to the other Kingdom and be welcome there even though they were foreigners," explained your Mizuchi. "Look. If you just jumped into the ocean, you'd sink and drown, right?"
Privately, you have an urge to correct his assumption and point out that you can swim perfectly well, thank you, but you can tell he's going somewhere with this. You keep your thoughts to yourself and just nod.
"Right. But if you had traveled by the Sea-Path, you would still sink, but you would not drown. You would be like the inhabitants of the Sea Kingdom: able to breathe under the water and walk around just like you were still on land. They can do the same thing. A fish that took the Sea-Path wouldn't flop around until it dried out and died, it would be start swimming over the land like it does over the bed of the ocean."
"So it was basically a mystical portal that let land creatures breathe underwater and sea creatures swim around on land?" you repeat, to make sure you fully understand. "Where was it?"
"Again, you're looking at this like a human, Imouto. The spiritual world isn't like garbage in your books: the Sea-Path was all places and no place. You could get to the Path on any shoreline, because it was a way of traveling only in the sense that walking or swimming are ways of traveling. It was how you stepped, not where you stepped." The dragon pauses to think about what it said. "That actually sounded kind of cool. Maybe we should set up a shrine or something and give out wisdom!"
"But my father was still able to block it, even though it wasn't a physical location," You point out, ignoring your companion's most recent suggestion. This spiritual crap was giving you a headache. You preferred quantum mechanics, those still somehow made more sense. "How did that work?"
"Imouto, your Divine Father is a kind soul. She wanted to strengthen the Sea-Path, so any who wished to use it could do so without risk. Humans wouldn't have to worry about drowning their stupid selves anymore, and the sea creatures could go on land whenever they wanted. Her Kingdom would fully united with that of her husband's. But the asshole took one look at her true form and ran, breaking your father's heart. His betrayal made her think the two Kingdoms could never exist side-by-side, so she grasped the Sea-Boundary and pulled it closed, shutting the Sea-Path for good. Now only a very few can go freely between the Land and Sea Kingdoms."
"Back up. What's the 'Sea-Boundary'?"
"The two Kingdoms are separated by a spiritual boundary, Imouto. It's what keeps the two apart. Without the Sea-Boundary, the seas would flow into the land, causing chaos for both humans and gods. The ocean is vast and deep, but the land has power all its own. Sea gods would battle earth gods for control of the new world, and the devastation would be immeasurable. The Sea-Boundary was created by the Primordials during the forging of the world for a very good reason, and all gods know to respect this divide."
"Just a second ago you said my father wanted to expand the Sea-Path. Wouldn't that cause problems for this 'barrier?'" Frankly, it sounded like your father had been about to destroy the world with her 'benevolence', but you assumed from the way your dragon had talked about it there was more to the story.
"Not the same thing. Destroying the Sea-Boundary would cause massive devastation, but your Divine Father knew this and would never let it happen. Besides, she couldn't if she wanted to: even your August Grandfather isn't strong enough to wreck the Sea-Boundary on his own. What Toyotama-hime was going to do was slightly widen a gap that already existed in the Boundary. Think of it like a dam. Poke a small hole, and a harmless stream of water comes out. Smash a big hole, and you get a flood."
You consider pointing out that those small holes have a tendency to become big holes after a while, but you aren't sure the metaphor would still apply to spiritual boundaries. Since the Sea-Path was now shut, it really didn't matter either way. Though speaking of that...
"So if my father used the Sea-Boundary to close the Path, could someone else manipulate the Boundary to reverse it?" you ask. "Could they reopen the Sea-Path?"
"Sure, I guess. No one's ever tried, since the sea gods mostly seem to prefer having the Path closed anyway, but there are probably ways to do it. Imouto, you aren't thinking of..."
"Maybe. Mostly, I just want to know what my options are," you state, your thoughts beginning to drift.
Reopen the Sea-Path... The more you think about it, the more you really want to try it. Your blood is practically humming at the opportunity. Yes, you could definitely do it. Analyse the Sea-Boundary at different points, then construct a device capable of bypassing or strategically weakening it so passage was again possible. You might even be able to go further and do what your father had wanted: strengthen the Path so anyone could use it. No more drowning. No more expensive gear to study sea life. People could fish for food on land!
You instantly bring that line of logic to a crashing halt. These urges...they weren't yours. They were your Legend. You had no doubt that reopening the Sea-Path was just the sort of quest your Heroic nature yearned for, and you weren't letting Fate or anyone else decide what you were going to do. It was time for a break. This 'Sea-Path' thing, you could come back to it later. Maybe you would go for it, if it still seemed like a good idea, but you were going to do it on your terms. No rushing off on a whim.
Glancing at the clock, you can see you've still got a decent amount of time left in the day...
---
Now what?
[ ] Continue questioning your Mizuchi.
-[ ] About what?
[ ] Build something!
-[ ] Build what?
-[ ] When would you like it finished?
[ ] Call the number Lucy gave you.
[ ] Do some research.
-[ ] On what?
-[ ] What resources will you use (library, internet, spirits, etc)?
[ ] Write in.
Sorry I missed some updates, last week was a super-update for my Monster Musume quest, and it completely threw off my schedule. Hopefully things will be back to normal soon.
It seems I also missed something about Toyotama last post: she does have a second legend where she's a major figure: the story of Urashima Tarō. I may have to edit a summary of that in later, or introduce it in a future post. We'll see.
It seems I also missed something about Toyotama last post: she does have a second legend where she's a major figure: the story of Urashima Tarō. I may have to edit a summary of that in later, or introduce it in a future post. We'll see.
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- Location
- St. Petersburg
'husband's", assuming she had only one.
'want to know'
Looks like we aren't pressed by the plot to do anything in particular, and I am at a loss about what to do.
[X] Do some research.
-[X] On Oracles, Seers, Prophets
--[X] Library, internet
Well, we have to look into our Destiny eventually. Why not see where we can find someone who could tell us more about it?
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Heaven Canceler
I would like to have a cool title.
- Location
- Austria
There is only one true path for us to take with science.
[X] Build something!
-[X] A Personal Robot Assistant ala R2D2
-[X] Within 3 weeks if possible.
[X] Build something!
-[X] A Personal Robot Assistant ala R2D2
-[X] Within 3 weeks if possible.
- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
[X] Do some research.
-[X] On Oracles, Seers, Prophets
--[X] Library, internet
-[X] On Oracles, Seers, Prophets
--[X] Library, internet
- Location
- My own little world...
Alex realized she has become smart enough that anything more than a trivial effort on her part would be catastrophic overkill. She will complete her required assignments easily in her spare time, the only commitments you will need to make are to have her go to class. Even then it's mostly optional, so long as she still turns in projects and shows up for exams. I'll make sure you know what days those are ahead of time.
This, incidentally, is why being 'normal' and working in the field you have a Legendary Talent in aren't usually very compatible. Anything more than your absolute minimum effort will cause you to blow your job out of the freaking water.
The plot is what you make of it. We're in sandbox mode now! All I'm going to do is occasionally throw monsters at you if it looks like you haven't been 'Heroic' enough in a while.
Sentient or non-sentient?
Heaven Canceler
I would like to have a cool title.
- Location
- Austria
Non-Sentient, for now at least.
