Well all that SCIENCE concepts she is learning is on public transmissions meant for alien children to learn alien SCIENCE and then using that knowledge to sell a product, which is hardly plagairism. Also it would probably be patenting rather the plagiarism since plagiarism is for written works iirc. And patenting and plagiarism is a recent thing, like early 1800s and its only within the last 100 or so years they became enforced strictly. For example back with Eli Whitney when he invented the cotton gin, people went to see it in action and then went home and reverse engineered it on their farms, he only got like 10 grand for its invention.
Distance Learning for fun and profit...
- Thread starter mp3.1415player
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FaerieKnight79
Verified Pixie
- Location
- The Internet
Further, Taylor still can't translate what is being said. As such she is having to extrapolate the SCIENCE using earth materials and her own understanding of math, physics, and SCIENCE. This in turn leads her to (probably) making discoveries unrelated to the Program's content.
kelgar04
Knight Watcher
- Location
- Here and no were
Would be pretty funny instead of alien school lectures she has tuned into their equivalent of mr Roger's Neighborhood.
- Location
- Christchurch, New Zealand
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Okay, but what if you learned about say, combustion engines, from Bill.
And then you went and found some untouched civilisation and sold this concept to them for their equivalent of billions of dollars. They might consider it a pretty great deal until they discovered that for the rest of the world that this is something they could learn completely for free.
They might feel a little cheated and angry at you.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
But to learn it you'd need access to the channel and the ability to understand it. Both of which only Taylor has, and both of which use her original work.
It's a story as old as time, industries starting by 'copyright infringement'. IP is and shall always be bullshit.
Personally i find it more objectionable not sharing 'ET taught me' but whatever as per the story it's immaterial since she's clearly the best 'human' to reverse engineer.
It's easier to find Doylist reasons not to share - namely the shards/cauldron/CDU/whatever villain is in the future of the story getting the 'super tech' - than Watsonian ones (especially now that the company is established and the boat graveyard cleaned up).
Personally i find it more objectionable not sharing 'ET taught me' but whatever as per the story it's immaterial since she's clearly the best 'human' to reverse engineer.
It's easier to find Doylist reasons not to share - namely the shards/cauldron/CDU/whatever villain is in the future of the story getting the 'super tech' - than Watsonian ones (especially now that the company is established and the boat graveyard cleaned up).
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You cannot claim to own the concept of something like a combustion engine or gravity for instance. As far as I can understand it, you can patent a particular design of an engine and you can protect yourself from people copying it but there is nothing stopping someone that understands the concept of combustion engines to make a similar design as yours and you have to prove that they copied your stuff.
Also if aliens don't have the concept of copyrights, plagiarisms, and patents.
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lin4t
The Sheep that Yawns at Reality
- Location
- Australia
The thing I'm trying to piece together is why Chief Director Rebecca is so ignorant of what happening when Cauldron frankly has all the capability to know everything on Taylor already.
(An existence like the DARPA somehow being super powerful that the cape scene can't mess with them being a constant thing in mp3.1415player's stories aside...)
Cauldron if they're not blocked by plot reasons would have probably already gained information on Taylor. Just because Contessa can't path Taylor, it doesn't meant she can't path those around her, especially if she's not nearby to screw up the path.
There are definitely people in the Dockworker or parts of the Government and certain Scientists that know of Taylor which Cauldron can gain information from. And with PtV, there would literally be zero difficulty for her to path a way gain Taylor's identity through them by asking the right questions to her power.
(Plus no one would actually know of this because Cauldron has a cape that can erase memories if they don't screw up on the kidnapping part)
Actually, the more I think about it, the more likely it is that Cauldron already has all the information they want on Taylor beyond direct access to her which is what Chief Director Rebecca is aiming for through her position.
Information from Gravtech and the government on all her projects can be easily gained via PtV or other means as even if Shards can't modal and predict Taylor, it can gain information on the stuff she'd written down and made into reports. Especially more so if other people have access to read which Cauldron can steal/copy without them knowing.
(Sure Contessa can technically type out all the information Taylor wrote down but that would take way too much time and effort for the gains. Also, Contessa has other things to do like making sure Warlords in Africa, gangs in Europe and the CUI don't spread their influence beyond what Cauldron wants)
So Cauldron already knows what everyone know, except for what Taylor personally keeps to herself in her mind and probably the stuff that's written down but not spread around to other people. Which means all they want now is access to Taylor to possibly dictate what she makes in the future which would be ways to possible deal with the Endbringers and Scion rather than 'useless' stuff that aren't that.
Why Chief Director Rebecca is so ignorant as she is? I'm thinking it's because Contessa, Number Man and Doctor Mother probably didn't bother to tell her as a way to prevent the other side from knowing that they have an information leak. Because they think there's some sort of Thinker/Trump they can't properly model on the other side that may find out about them if they're not careful.
(An existence like the DARPA somehow being super powerful that the cape scene can't mess with them being a constant thing in mp3.1415player's stories aside...)
Cauldron if they're not blocked by plot reasons would have probably already gained information on Taylor. Just because Contessa can't path Taylor, it doesn't meant she can't path those around her, especially if she's not nearby to screw up the path.
There are definitely people in the Dockworker or parts of the Government and certain Scientists that know of Taylor which Cauldron can gain information from. And with PtV, there would literally be zero difficulty for her to path a way gain Taylor's identity through them by asking the right questions to her power.
(Plus no one would actually know of this because Cauldron has a cape that can erase memories if they don't screw up on the kidnapping part)
Actually, the more I think about it, the more likely it is that Cauldron already has all the information they want on Taylor beyond direct access to her which is what Chief Director Rebecca is aiming for through her position.
Information from Gravtech and the government on all her projects can be easily gained via PtV or other means as even if Shards can't modal and predict Taylor, it can gain information on the stuff she'd written down and made into reports. Especially more so if other people have access to read which Cauldron can steal/copy without them knowing.
(Sure Contessa can technically type out all the information Taylor wrote down but that would take way too much time and effort for the gains. Also, Contessa has other things to do like making sure Warlords in Africa, gangs in Europe and the CUI don't spread their influence beyond what Cauldron wants)
So Cauldron already knows what everyone know, except for what Taylor personally keeps to herself in her mind and probably the stuff that's written down but not spread around to other people. Which means all they want now is access to Taylor to possibly dictate what she makes in the future which would be ways to possible deal with the Endbringers and Scion rather than 'useless' stuff that aren't that.
Why Chief Director Rebecca is so ignorant as she is? I'm thinking it's because Contessa, Number Man and Doctor Mother probably didn't bother to tell her as a way to prevent the other side from knowing that they have an information leak. Because they think there's some sort of Thinker/Trump they can't properly model on the other side that may find out about them if they're not careful.
Skrattybones
Chao is all you need
But for this example to make sense, it would have to be a member of that untouched civilization inventing a way to tap into television signals theirself in order to watch Bill explain combustion engines. Which, sure, they didn't invent the concept of a combustion engine, but neither did anyone else. And neither did anyone else figure out how to watch Bill in the first place.
So essentially they'd be pleased that someone uplifted their whole untouched society.
Oh, and also their society has people who are constantly inventing airplanes and hydroelectric dams and waffle makers except nobody else can take them apart and see how they work or reproduce them.
So really, someone coming along who can invent, understand, and teach everyone else exactly how to make their own probably gets a pass, right?
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- Location
- Elsewhere
That is saying that given the same source information they could do the same thing, note they couldn't. I mean eventually they would certainly get *some* data from the transition but not what she is doing.
Tell you what go and download some science shows (ones about a subject you have little data on beyond basic math/science) in another language (one that you don't speak, preferably part of a language group you don't have any language in common with) and see how well you do at understanding and repeating the science... and the make that difficulty much harder because you can't understand their body language or intonation, etc.
Now thinking about it I have started wondering if you aren't just a Troll your argument is so ridiculous.
Nah. I doubt it looks like anything other than standard bureaucratic empire-building to people in-universe. It's normal behavior for bureaucracies to try to claim they have authority over everything they can find an excuse to have authority over. And from the remarks of the other characters that's exactly what they think is going on; an empire-builder who isn't used to people telling her "no", being told "no".
Costa-Brown sounds more suspicious to us the readers than she does in universe because we know how much she's hiding.
- Location
- Christchurch, New Zealand
- Pronouns
- He/Him
And she'd be 100% right to claim that invention as her own and I'd have no issue at all with her profitting off that.
But she's keeping that bit very quiet.
Narratively I imagine in a story where that tech gets shared it would be harder to keep Taylor in the spotlight since she's no longer the PRIME ASSET.
Now this I can absolutely agree with as a good reason.
Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.
FaerieKnight79
Verified Pixie
- Location
- The Internet
Contessa could easily get all the information on Taylor... Except for the fact that the entire city of Brockton Bay just dropped off PTV's radar for reasons Contessa has no clue about. Not just one person, but the entire city.
That's actually a Watsonian reason. As much as it is a reason.
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kelgar04
Knight Watcher
- Location
- Here and no were
Ah so I guess she is seen as another J. Edgar Hoover then more than undisputed bitch queen of the sewage plant?
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- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Nah. Then she's the prime asset because she figured out a subspace ftl communicator, and has the ability to actually parse the transmissions being picked up, to a degree. Something they would not have.
Basically Taylor really is a once-in-a-millennium person. She's just not quite got the focus they think she does.
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Endorfinator
Awkwardly Social
- Pronouns
- He/Him
So it appears Taylor is evolving from merely being able to detect Parahumans to possibly reverse-engineering their powers? Legend Lasers for the DoD, yes please! Also breakthroughs on reverse-engineering Tinker tech, not only comprehensible and replicable but probably functions better too!
Same as always - same as the chances of a human being a da Vinci, a Pasteur, a Newton or Einstein or Tesla. Same as the chances of being the human being who first invented a way to reliably make fire, or the human who first discovered how to domesticate animals.
In this particular case, Rebecca's argument is also 100% undone by the ability of scientists to understand her theories and the ability of random lab techs to replicate her inventions without her involvement.
Yes, exactly this. It's easiest to say everyone exceptional must be a parahuman... if you're in charge of all things parahuman. Unfortunately, there really are near-peak performance humans out there in their own specialities, and there always have been since the population got big enough.
- Location
- Australia
- Pronouns
- She/Her
And people that shouldn't have gone there but have, and have been in contact with [UNIDENTIFIED ELEMENT] and are doing things based off their knowledge of [UNIDENTIFIED ELEMENT]... In time, they can probably compensate for it to a large degree. Short term though, it's like her power is a pond and someone dropped a big rock in it.
- Location
- Christchurch, New Zealand
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Trolling is not my intention.
I just feel like everything great she's building is based on the lie that she invented this with no help. But maybe it's becoming a smaller and smaller lie in comparision to everything else she's doing, and you're likely right that no-one else could do what she can do.
I guess we'll see where it goes and what happens if Taylor decides or is forced by circumstance to share.
SanguisAnima
Σ Series Z10/0 Group A 4A-GELU Mk1
- Location
- nowhere important
I don't know, but for some reason my brain read that in Cave Johnson's voice...
Yup, and she's being so sincere right now.
Now those points of data make a beautiful line; but they're still in beta, will they release it on time?
Hey, at least she's channelling Dr Gladys Emerson, or Spelunker, and not Caroline... Or worse, Osiris...
You mean nekoscience guy?
- Location
- Right next to the butcher's shop.
That's not how this works. That's not how anything works. Most technological development is based on other science, and has prerequisites (animals than can be easily domesticated, glas good enough for microscopes, electricity being 'invented') and even history's great minds tended to specialise, and while they made great advances Taylor straight up skips several steps. We know this is because she's cheating a little, but to an outsider she looks like she's reverse engineering advanced science (which she is), and the most likely way for that to happen is for a parahumans to be involved.
People like Taylor just don't really exist. The closest we know of is Da Vinci, and while he had some great ideas, most didn't work when actually built. He was a visionary, a great painter, and a decent designer but a pretty average engineer with some creative ideas. Taylor's far more than that. And that's fine, it's a story, but it does mean RCB's conclusion makes sense based on the available information. You see some obviously superhuman shit, your first assumption should be parahumans, not supergenius watching alien TV.
The fact that other people can copy it just means she's not a conventional tinker, which she actively acknowledges. Hence the comparison to Dragon.
lin4t
The Sheep that Yawns at Reality
- Location
- Australia
Huh, I must have skipped past that accidentally.
The whole information blackout thing really isn't my thing since it just lazily waves off Cauldron despite Shards being a species designed to collect information and more than likely have counter-measures on having their observation methods countered. But I guess that's what mp3.1415player wants in his story.
In any case, I cannot imagine that there isn't information on Taylor in other places. The Pentagon at the very least which have been blocking information leaks to the PRT at the very least. Not to mention the President, some secret service members and some military leaders likely being informed on Taylor being the Prime Asset. Even if 99% have her name redacted, at least one should have her name at least.
All it takes is Contessa asking the right question. Literally, what is the name of the Prime Asset identified in this document.
kelgar04
Knight Watcher
- Location
- Here and no were
Well other than subspace bull Costa brown there are people who have been doing counter Intel longer than you or you organisations have been alive protecting GravTec right now so however you are sending is ethier getting sent to dummy sites, redirected or is ending up in rather uncomfortable situations.
Just be thankful none of them have become part of the flower beds in the bay if they are regular humans.
Also sending legend in to pull leavers if this reaches DoD and intel was a really dumb move on her part.
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I think you mean J. Edgar Hoover of the FBI, not Herbert Hoover the President?
But yeah, she probably has strong J. Edgar Hoover vibes; an overreaching, empire-building head of a law enforcement organization.
In fact, they likely get hailed as a genius. Situations roughly like that have happened in real life after all; some genius gets a bit of knowledge from a more scientifically advanced culture and builds like crazy on it. Srinivasa Ramanujan comes to mind; starting with a few British books on mathematics he was able to independently discover fields of math that weren't included, and to go on to create a body of work still studied today.
Taylor probably couldn't have achieved what she has without that alien program to give her something to build on; but nobody else could have achieved what she has with that program.