[X] Plan Not all the Great Ships
Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism
- Thread starter torroar
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It is not an alternate. All three components of this together are supposed to settle the anger of different portions of the Cult. The greatships satisfy the moneycounters (somewhat) while the keelhauling satisfies the crowd braying for blood.
I'm talking specifically about the keelhauling, because that's the one that's going to get the biggest temptation to go EXTREME on. You notice that I have the only plan that takes it down to the Rambler. The only one.
- Location
- Summerville, SC
[X] Plan: All In, As Usual
This seems to be a misrepresentation of my point.
I'm not saying that it wouldn't be an IC sacrifice if Freddy assumes he won't be seeing those Greatships back.
What I'm saying is that "these ships might end up being used to defend Ostland's coast" is information that the QM gave us outside the update and wasn't planning to tell us before this vote was finished.
Basically? My argument on this is that we might want to skip metagaming on OOC information.
I'm not asserting that 4*2 = >5
I'm asserting that 4*2 = >4
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
You are asserting that.. *reads the plan again*
Nevermind. I misread it.
...
*Reads again*
New objection: Are you trying to get Frederick killed?
[X] Plan: All In, As Usual
-[X] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
-[X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
--[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. (All 5) [Major Appeasement/Approval For Each Ship]
-[X] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
--[X] Triton's Fury: A traveling temple-ship of Manann, practically the size of a Greatship, but its structure has been given far less over to battle than to making a mobile living space for its crew of Sea-Born. [Most Dangerous/Extreme Appeasement/Approval Gain]
-[X] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
-[X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
--[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. (All 5) [Major Appeasement/Approval For Each Ship]
-[X] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
--[X] Triton's Fury: A traveling temple-ship of Manann, practically the size of a Greatship, but its structure has been given far less over to battle than to making a mobile living space for its crew of Sea-Born. [Most Dangerous/Extreme Appeasement/Approval Gain]
- Pronouns
- He
[X] Plan Not all the Great Ships
ConfusedCanuck
Where did it all go wrong?
- Location
- Neverland
[X] Plan Two Proper
It's was clear that the Matriarch didn't want us to do the most dangerous Keelhauling here so why are we doing it?
It's was clear that the Matriarch didn't want us to do the most dangerous Keelhauling here so why are we doing it?
- Location
- Underground
The QM said it could have been read into from what was written, so it's not metagaming.
She specifically didn't want us to do the Shark Dive. Didn't say anything about the specific keelhauling. If you think there's anything that implies that please quote it.
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[X] Plan Not Quite ALL the Way
I'm concerned about doing the maximum keelhauling action. I do not have any doubt that we can survive it, but I'm more concerned about longterm physical or god-related effects down the line. It just seems like with all the healing magic we have it kind of takes away from the sacrifice/penance, and a god would see that we're gaming it. The last thing we need is a weakened physical body with the Beastmen on our doorsteps.
Manaan is important. But not THAT important for our goals. We seem to be more like France than Britain, so I don't see the need to go farther than maintaining the status quo. I've been expecting enemies to sweep our fleet for years, but it hasn't happened yet, and I'm not sure I'm concerned even if they do because of how much we invest in our infrastructure.
I'm concerned about doing the maximum keelhauling action. I do not have any doubt that we can survive it, but I'm more concerned about longterm physical or god-related effects down the line. It just seems like with all the healing magic we have it kind of takes away from the sacrifice/penance, and a god would see that we're gaming it. The last thing we need is a weakened physical body with the Beastmen on our doorsteps.
Manaan is important. But not THAT important for our goals. We seem to be more like France than Britain, so I don't see the need to go farther than maintaining the status quo. I've been expecting enemies to sweep our fleet for years, but it hasn't happened yet, and I'm not sure I'm concerned even if they do because of how much we invest in our infrastructure.
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ConfusedCanuck
Where did it all go wrong?
- Location
- Neverland
She definitely Implied it wasn't necessary and not only that we'll probably upset our wife again if we go the most dangerous here my real question here is why do we constantly go with the most harm for Fredrick when we don't actually need to? I also got that she didn't want to do the worst Keelhauling from the QM when he was talking about it.
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People do realise That Marienbrug is connected to the sea of claws just as much as our coast right? I mean we are on the East section and are a far bit distant
Marienburg is actually only slightly south of our capital, by slightly I mean I think it's roughly on, line with Kienbaum.
Before people comment otherwise look at where the north arrow is pointing on our map of the empire, you will note it is not pointing directly north, it is fairly common to rotate maps a bit.
The greatships probably will be fighting chaos, dark elves and orcs, and frankly with regards to dark elves you need to pass directly north of marienburg first (by quite a bit, admittedly) to reach the rest of the empire.
I am not arguing we should give away all the greatships but I consider the argument that they are not protecting our coast as far less valid than people are suggesting.
I just hope that this series of events ends quickly so I can forget how angry I am with the thread, certain parts of the voting mechanics and to a certain extent Torroar. Slightly frustrated that all, and by that, I mean all order religions seem to be depicted as 100% better than Sigmar in every single way, I mean seriously the the Foamborne can perfectly identify if someone is a heretic.
I see one of the issues of giving away all the greatships is well, it will probably affect internal Ostland loyalty. I mean what greater fuel can you add on the Freddy is insane pyre than giving up (all) the biggest ships in our fleet
Marienburg is actually only slightly south of our capital, by slightly I mean I think it's roughly on, line with Kienbaum.
Before people comment otherwise look at where the north arrow is pointing on our map of the empire, you will note it is not pointing directly north, it is fairly common to rotate maps a bit.
The greatships probably will be fighting chaos, dark elves and orcs, and frankly with regards to dark elves you need to pass directly north of marienburg first (by quite a bit, admittedly) to reach the rest of the empire.
I am not arguing we should give away all the greatships but I consider the argument that they are not protecting our coast as far less valid than people are suggesting.
I just hope that this series of events ends quickly so I can forget how angry I am with the thread, certain parts of the voting mechanics and to a certain extent Torroar. Slightly frustrated that all, and by that, I mean all order religions seem to be depicted as 100% better than Sigmar in every single way, I mean seriously the the Foamborne can perfectly identify if someone is a heretic.
I see one of the issues of giving away all the greatships is well, it will probably affect internal Ostland loyalty. I mean what greater fuel can you add on the Freddy is insane pyre than giving up (all) the biggest ships in our fleet
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
[X] Plan All Ships, No Masochism
-[x] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
-[X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
--[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. (Write-In How Many If Any/Which Greatships) [Major Appeasement/Approval For Each Ship]
---[X] All the Greatships
-[X] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
--[X] The Rambler: An average trading ship, regularly barnacled. [Somewhat Dangerous/Minor Appeasement/Approval Gain]
Okay I think giving all the ships is a good idea:
1. Advertising
2. All the impressions and QM's statements have said that she will protect Ostland's coasts with the ships we give her.
3. We can build more Greatships later, so the loss doesn't truly hurt.
4. Appeasement and major approval from the cult, which will be an excellent asset in the future.
As for the Keelhauling, uh, look, let's not go extreme here.
Also I find it somewhat concerning that there are more arguments and votes to go max Keelhaul than to max Greatships.. implication being that the Greatships are more valuable than Frederick's life, or that questers believe that he can't die or something.
Grabbed BV's plan for this.
-[x] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
-[X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
--[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. (Write-In How Many If Any/Which Greatships) [Major Appeasement/Approval For Each Ship]
---[X] All the Greatships
-[X] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
--[X] The Rambler: An average trading ship, regularly barnacled. [Somewhat Dangerous/Minor Appeasement/Approval Gain]
Okay I think giving all the ships is a good idea:
1. Advertising
2. All the impressions and QM's statements have said that she will protect Ostland's coasts with the ships we give her.
3. We can build more Greatships later, so the loss doesn't truly hurt.
4. Appeasement and major approval from the cult, which will be an excellent asset in the future.
As for the Keelhauling, uh, look, let's not go extreme here.
Also I find it somewhat concerning that there are more arguments and votes to go max Keelhaul than to max Greatships.. implication being that the Greatships are more valuable than Frederick's life, or that questers believe that he can't die or something.
Grabbed BV's plan for this.
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pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
[X] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
-[X] Marvelous Maisel: An extremely large supply ship, apparently used to confer certain supplies to Sea-Born vessels out on the ocean such as medicines that cannot be sourced out on the ocean. Has not been cleaned at all. [More Dangerous/Major Appeasement/Approval Gain]
[X] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
[X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
-[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. - Fist of Frederick, Natasha's Grace
-[X] Marvelous Maisel: An extremely large supply ship, apparently used to confer certain supplies to Sea-Born vessels out on the ocean such as medicines that cannot be sourced out on the ocean. Has not been cleaned at all. [More Dangerous/Major Appeasement/Approval Gain]
[X] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
[X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
-[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. - Fist of Frederick, Natasha's Grace
Guys, seriously, PLEASE let's not do the Triton's Fury. PLEASE!!! Marvelous Maisel is as far as we should go.
I mean... It's the level 4 instead of the level 5. And I'm explicitly voting to have Freddy healed in-between keelhaulings.
Fair enough.
Prussia actually.
Aside from the previously remarked on examples of the Fist of Defiance(6+ Ward Save, gromril gauntlet), our having brought a Jade Wizard, the Light of Summer(if worn) and Freddy having a Fate Point, it's worth remembering that Sigmar has blessed Freddy's body to be capable of handling punishment better.
- Pronouns
- Human/Form/Keyblade
[X] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
-[X] Marvelous Maisel: An extremely large supply ship, apparently used to confer certain supplies to Sea-Born vessels out on the ocean such as medicines that cannot be sourced out on the ocean. Has not been cleaned at all. [More Dangerous/Major Appeasement/Approval Gain]
[X] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
[X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
-[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. - Fist of Frederick, Natasha's Grace
-[X] Marvelous Maisel: An extremely large supply ship, apparently used to confer certain supplies to Sea-Born vessels out on the ocean such as medicines that cannot be sourced out on the ocean. Has not been cleaned at all. [More Dangerous/Major Appeasement/Approval Gain]
[X] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
[X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
-[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. - Fist of Frederick, Natasha's Grace
Vote for a PLAN. Not just for Options.
I expected to still be asleep rather than waking up early, but here I am waking up earlier than expected anyway. Ah well. (... Am still like 7 pages behind too! Aha. More than 7, by the time I finish writing up this post.)
[X] Plan: All In, As Usual
Manann, take the wheel! ... It works, even, because ships have wheels like cars do. Neat.
So.
We're taking a risk here, I know we are.
Not just the risk of "Well shit, we rolled not-great or poorly and are quite injured" or "Well shit, them's the breaks, we died" though that's obvious and something people are aware of. That's life, man. You go into a battle, you take your chances that you might die. Even if it's a battle you've gone into before, even if it's a routine thing, even if it's just a minor thing like cleanup of Beastmen or a pack of Chaos Knights that took over Salkalten...
... Huh. I just realized that. Frederick's father died trying to clear Norscans out of the coast, didn't he? One of Frederick's first major events of the quest was actually the Battle of Salkalten. Mm. I don't remember if Frederick's father died to the Salkalten invader group or to some random group on the coast, but... Man, it's been a long time hasn't it, but.
Anyway!
So, torroar posted a post that talked about the "Choose nothing: the Everqueen will remember this" option. And how, it was just that: remembering. It wasn't... one hundred percent certain that it would be positive. That it would lead to the Everqueen thinking well of the Dwarfs, or of reaching out to the Asrai via Frederick, or any of the things that happened. But. There was a possibility for it.
And that, is what we are trying to do today too, I feel. And what we are taking a chance on by going 'all in.'
Because, while we are risking things... the potential payoffs are great.
It's a military upgrade that helps keep our ships safer or more effective. Helps keep our trade and navy and coast more effective. Helps Ostland.
So what if we actually managed to get the Cult of Manann to look in on this? To get Manann to look in on this, and approve of it?
What if we actually got relations good enough with the Cult and with Manann, that... the Cult would be willing to send us more ships and more sailors to help out, and more people to help sanctify the Lighthouse we are building, or to experiment and see if Manann can bless the Wing-Suit Scouts and who knows --
-- Maybe decades down the line, "The Gulls of Manann" will be a thing, an organization or type of soldiery in the Empire's navy. A group of people who have Manann's blessing to fly over the ships of His waters! Wouldn't that be something, eh? Not only is it a good aid to the Empire, but it's also potentially a cool world-building thing that we would have added to the Empire, to the world.
... I'm not saying this in order to, like, tempt people with shinies. To say that "Vote for our plan, and we'll definitely get these things!" I'm saying that... If you never try, you never succeed. But. That this is the sort of thing that is on the line, and the sort of thing that is possible.
At minimum, I expect (and/or hope?) that if things will turn out well at Marienburg, that @torroar will wind up giving us options like "See if the Cult of Manann would be interested in your Wing-Suits en masse. Maybe it'll become a tradition, maybe it'll become a new job, maybe it'll become a new Order in the Cult, maybe nothing. Maybe something, who knows?"
Is it risky for Frederick to just give away the 5 ships? With no certainty, no guarantee, no control over what those ships are then sent to do?
Yes, yes it is risky.
But that's life in the world of Warhammer, sometimes. Sometimes, it is an act of faith.
And sometimes, faith is rewarded.
But if you don't try, you never succeed.
And I think we should try.
I think it is important and meaningful. Many things could be done, not just to clear up and move from tragedy and mistake, and to fill up a soon-to-be-hole in Ostland's defenses... But also something for the Empire's faiths and maritime power.
Speaking of the Empire's faiths and faithful -- it would be nice if this act also ends up helping out Magnus the Pious and the religious Conclave that meets every year, too. I don't... know if it would help. Maybe the Sigmarites will be displeased. Maybe the Grand Theogonist will actually be pissed that a major Sigmarite took an action like this, and underwent a Manannite contrition ceremony like this, or suddenly gave a lot of power to the Cult of Manann. Or maybe he will understand, and be glad that Sigmarites are no longer at odds with Manannites.
And perhaps if we are lucky, this will help bridge the gap between Marienburg and the rest of the Empire, too. Perhaps empowering the Matriarch of Manann, and even making her feel like she has an ally or at least a friendly person in the form of one of the Elector Counts, will mean that she winds up running herd on the Haendryk worshippers in a way that leads to the Handrich worshippers not wanting to clash with the rest of the Empire's merchants or nobility. That is to say; perhaps this could lead to closer inter-Empire cooperation and understanding? Of improved relations between everyone? That this won't just be "Ostland and Freddy wins, Loser Rutgers and Geisen Drool!" but that the faithful of all the Empire's faiths can work together and have better relations. That corruption and greed is rooted out. And replaced with virtue and cooperation. Or at least, like, replaced with a 'lack of antagonism'/'lack of suspecting others and side-eyeing outsiders.')
All we can do is our best and hardest, and hope that things work out.
But, it is important to try, I think.
And it is important to get a feel for what this world is like from the inside. About the importance and weight of faith and piety and tradition in this world. And of engaging with it. And of the things that can happen in the world, if you do.
... Also, god, I hope everything works out. Not just the rolls for how Frederick does at the penance of course. (Though that's important!) But also that the rolls go well for the rest of the Empire, too. But. It's not like this would magically fix itself if we didn't try our best, or if we tried only a little bit, or tried moderate-hard amounts. (Well, going moderate can work. But going all-in can try to help stack the deck.)
RNGesus and Manann, take the wheel...
[X] Plan: All In, As Usual
Manann, take the wheel! ... It works, even, because ships have wheels like cars do. Neat.
So.
We're taking a risk here, I know we are.
Not just the risk of "Well shit, we rolled not-great or poorly and are quite injured" or "Well shit, them's the breaks, we died" though that's obvious and something people are aware of. That's life, man. You go into a battle, you take your chances that you might die. Even if it's a battle you've gone into before, even if it's a routine thing, even if it's just a minor thing like cleanup of Beastmen or a pack of Chaos Knights that took over Salkalten...
... Huh. I just realized that. Frederick's father died trying to clear Norscans out of the coast, didn't he? One of Frederick's first major events of the quest was actually the Battle of Salkalten. Mm. I don't remember if Frederick's father died to the Salkalten invader group or to some random group on the coast, but... Man, it's been a long time hasn't it, but.
Anyway!
So, torroar posted a post that talked about the "Choose nothing: the Everqueen will remember this" option. And how, it was just that: remembering. It wasn't... one hundred percent certain that it would be positive. That it would lead to the Everqueen thinking well of the Dwarfs, or of reaching out to the Asrai via Frederick, or any of the things that happened. But. There was a possibility for it.
And that, is what we are trying to do today too, I feel. And what we are taking a chance on by going 'all in.'
Because, while we are risking things... the potential payoffs are great.
Remember this bit? It's under our The Third Imperial Fleet category. One of the paragraphs at the end.
It's a military upgrade that helps keep our ships safer or more effective. Helps keep our trade and navy and coast more effective. Helps Ostland.
So what if we actually managed to get the Cult of Manann to look in on this? To get Manann to look in on this, and approve of it?
What if we actually got relations good enough with the Cult and with Manann, that... the Cult would be willing to send us more ships and more sailors to help out, and more people to help sanctify the Lighthouse we are building, or to experiment and see if Manann can bless the Wing-Suit Scouts and who knows --
-- Maybe decades down the line, "The Gulls of Manann" will be a thing, an organization or type of soldiery in the Empire's navy. A group of people who have Manann's blessing to fly over the ships of His waters! Wouldn't that be something, eh? Not only is it a good aid to the Empire, but it's also potentially a cool world-building thing that we would have added to the Empire, to the world.
... I'm not saying this in order to, like, tempt people with shinies. To say that "Vote for our plan, and we'll definitely get these things!" I'm saying that... If you never try, you never succeed. But. That this is the sort of thing that is on the line, and the sort of thing that is possible.
At minimum, I expect (and/or hope?) that if things will turn out well at Marienburg, that @torroar will wind up giving us options like "See if the Cult of Manann would be interested in your Wing-Suits en masse. Maybe it'll become a tradition, maybe it'll become a new job, maybe it'll become a new Order in the Cult, maybe nothing. Maybe something, who knows?"
Is it risky for Frederick to just give away the 5 ships? With no certainty, no guarantee, no control over what those ships are then sent to do?
Yes, yes it is risky.
But that's life in the world of Warhammer, sometimes. Sometimes, it is an act of faith.
And sometimes, faith is rewarded.
But if you don't try, you never succeed.
And I think we should try.
I think it is important and meaningful. Many things could be done, not just to clear up and move from tragedy and mistake, and to fill up a soon-to-be-hole in Ostland's defenses... But also something for the Empire's faiths and maritime power.
Speaking of the Empire's faiths and faithful -- it would be nice if this act also ends up helping out Magnus the Pious and the religious Conclave that meets every year, too. I don't... know if it would help. Maybe the Sigmarites will be displeased. Maybe the Grand Theogonist will actually be pissed that a major Sigmarite took an action like this, and underwent a Manannite contrition ceremony like this, or suddenly gave a lot of power to the Cult of Manann. Or maybe he will understand, and be glad that Sigmarites are no longer at odds with Manannites.
And perhaps if we are lucky, this will help bridge the gap between Marienburg and the rest of the Empire, too. Perhaps empowering the Matriarch of Manann, and even making her feel like she has an ally or at least a friendly person in the form of one of the Elector Counts, will mean that she winds up running herd on the Haendryk worshippers in a way that leads to the Handrich worshippers not wanting to clash with the rest of the Empire's merchants or nobility. That is to say; perhaps this could lead to closer inter-Empire cooperation and understanding? Of improved relations between everyone? That this won't just be "Ostland and Freddy wins, Loser Rutgers and Geisen Drool!" but that the faithful of all the Empire's faiths can work together and have better relations. That corruption and greed is rooted out. And replaced with virtue and cooperation. Or at least, like, replaced with a 'lack of antagonism'/'lack of suspecting others and side-eyeing outsiders.')
All we can do is our best and hardest, and hope that things work out.
But, it is important to try, I think.
And it is important to get a feel for what this world is like from the inside. About the importance and weight of faith and piety and tradition in this world. And of engaging with it. And of the things that can happen in the world, if you do.
... Also, god, I hope everything works out. Not just the rolls for how Frederick does at the penance of course. (Though that's important!) But also that the rolls go well for the rest of the Empire, too. But. It's not like this would magically fix itself if we didn't try our best, or if we tried only a little bit, or tried moderate-hard amounts. (Well, going moderate can work. But going all-in can try to help stack the deck.)
RNGesus and Manann, take the wheel...
- Location
- Underground
Was concern about metagaming your main reason for not giving all the greatships to the Cult?
In light of knowing the kind of person Maghda is, the Sea of Claws and Ostland specifically would not be left without greatships defending it. We're basically just losing direct control of them. Which is a serious sacrifice of our wealth and pride, but not our people's safety.
We can probably even get them to work on things with us if the greatships are required. It will just require cooperation. Which I think is rather the point.
With that in mind, might I suggest adjusting your plan to include all the greatships? I see the appeal of two keelhaulings if you're concerned about losing the light of summer.
What I would like is a bit more information about what each level of magnitude of appeasement would be. I'm not sure two Maisel's is worth a Triton, though. Also, without the light of summer using that Fate Point is more likely. And we only get that once.
I'm honestly not worried about losing the light of summer. We've lost all our clothes in combat multiple times but never lost the light of summer even for a moment.
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