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Elysian Dream (Byzantium in the New World) (EU4 Quest)

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[X] Plan War with Cahokia

Ah, this could go so bad for us.

What are the odds we beat them only to find and even bigger polity on the other side? Or worse, a Chinese colony.
Adhoc vote count started by Parzival95 on Feb 19, 2019 at 5:01 PM, finished with 40 posts and 22 votes.
  • [X] Plan finishing the ideas plus small gains.
    -[X] Institute the Themata Development Office.
    -[X] [90 Diplomatic] While our independent merchants have been a source of great wealth both to themselves and the treasury itself, some risky ventures are beyond even the ability of the increasingly wealthy Emporoi to fund and maintain. This is where the state should intervene, sponsoring trade expeditions and giving these new trade companies the right to exercise certain governmental powers. More sources of trade will only enrich the realm.
    -[X] [60 Administrative] As our territory expands so does the production of valuable trade goods, the lifeblood of our nation. We must ensure as a priority that the free movement of goods out of a settlement is one of the first goals for any developing town. Not only will it increase their prosperity, but it will allow us to quickly evaluate which initiatives will prove more profitable. [Expansion Ideas]
    -[X] [60 Diplomatic] The expansion of the Emporoi has resulted in fierce competition between the merchant houses, many of which are now as wealthy as the dynatoi. As a result a number of families have turned to focus their attention inland where the market is less volatile, and have in doing so exposed weaknesses in our caravans and the availability of goods. We should institute a re-organisation of our colonial logistics immediately. [Trade Ideas] [End]
    -[X] [60 Military] While our artillery is not so advanced as in Europe, especially on land, we can learn from the teething problem the continental wars have exposed. By grouping our artillery into batteries, we can best leverage their sudden surge of destructive power as well as manage them more effectively. Our troops will be confident knowing that any moment their foe could be blasted apart by the wrath of God Almighty. [Quality Ideas] [End]
    -[X] [40 Administrative] Increase Stability. With a series of community initiatives and celebratory festivals you can improve the happiness of your citizens and their faith in the good-will and capabilities of their ruler. The citizen who thinks they live in a time of prosperity is a happy citizen. (Stability +1)
    -[X] Prepare plans for a war of conquest against the Passamaquoddy, Caddo.
    -[X] [2500 Hyperpyra] With the ongoing expansion of Elysia's navy there has been plenty of competition for state contracts among the great lumbermills and shipwrights of the coast. But the time has come to firmly endorse certain companies with imperial favour and subsidy in order to expand their operations. We must ensure our navy never lacks for vital supplies and skilled labourers for construction.
    -[X] [1400 Hyperpyra] [Neo Londinion] The northern theme of Neo Londinion has a commandnig position on the Elysian coast, and so the major settlements there are primarily focused on nautical activities. The fisheries of Nisi Rhodos and great lumbermills of both Neo Limini and Neo Londinion all have thriving communities that are ripe for recruitment into the navy, while the trapping communities inland around the towns of Veria and Dine provide plenty of valuable fur for trade. They have also benefited from the new Vinlandic trade nearby, and providing roads to transport those trade goods to the capital would certainly be helpful.
    -[X] [55 Hyperpyra/-40 Expenses] [20 Vessels] The capability of a nation to defend its borders is often the most important factor in whether it will have to defend them at all. The same applies on the sea as it does on land. The commissioning and maintenance of heavy warships will show that Elysia is willing to fight to preserve her interests and provide her the means to do so.
    -[X] [22 Hyperpyra/-4 Expenses] [50 Vessels] Trade made the merchant republics some of the richest in Europe, capable of toppling small nations if it meant more gold flowing into their coffers. Their large navies were in no small part responsible for this dominance, the sheer quantity of trade ships carrying goods giving them the money to finance their dominance of the sea. We would be wise to follow their example.
    [X] Plan: War with Cahokia
    -[X] Institute the Themata Development Office.
    -[X] [90 Diplomatic] While our independent merchants have been a source of great wealth both to themselves and the treasury itself, some risky ventures are beyond even the ability of the increasingly wealthy Emporoi to fund and maintain. This is where the state should intervene, sponsoring trade expeditions and giving these new trade companies the right to exercise certain governmental powers. More sources of trade will only enrich the realm.
    -[X] [60 Administrative] As our territory expands so does the production of valuable trade goods, the lifeblood of our nation. We must ensure as a priority that the free movement of goods out of a settlement is one of the first goals for any developing town. Not only will it increase their prosperity, but it will allow us to quickly evaluate which initiatives will prove more profitable. [Expansion Ideas]
    -[X] [60 Diplomatic] The expansion of the Emporoi has resulted in fierce competition between the merchant houses, many of which are now as wealthy as the dynatoi. As a result a number of families have turned to focus their attention inland where the market is less volatile, and have in doing so exposed weaknesses in our caravans and the availability of goods. We should institute a re-organisation of our colonial logistics immediately. [Trade Ideas] [End]
    -[X] [60 Military] While our artillery is not so advanced as in Europe, especially on land, we can learn from the teething problem the continental wars have exposed. By grouping our artillery into batteries, we can best leverage their sudden surge of destructive power as well as manage them more effectively. Our troops will be confident knowing that any moment their foe could be blasted apart by the wrath of God Almighty. [Quality Ideas] [End]
    -[X] [40 Administrative] Increase Stability. With a series of community initiatives and celebratory festivals you can improve the happiness of your citizens and their faith in the good-will and capabilities of their ruler. The citizen who thinks they live in a time of prosperity is a happy citizen. (Stability +1)
    -[X] Prepare plans for a war of conquest against the Ottowa, Chickasaw, and Pawnee. If deafeated swiftly enough continue on into Cahokia itself.
    -[X] Send a diplomatic mission to Haudenosaunee (secure their help in the coming war with Cahokia)
    -[X] Send a diplomatic mission to Shawnee (secure their help in the coming war with Cahokia)
    -[X] Send a diplomatic mission to Potawatomi (secure their help in the coming war with Cahokia)
    -[X] [2500 Hyperpyra] With the ongoing expansion of Elysia's navy there has been plenty of competition for state contracts among the great lumbermills and shipwrights of the coast. But the time has come to firmly endorse certain companies with imperial favour and subsidy in order to expand their operations. We must ensure our navy never lacks for vital supplies and skilled labourers for construction.
    -[X] [1400 Hyperpyra] [Neo Londinion] The northern theme of Neo Londinion has a commandnig position on the Elysian coast, and so the major settlements there are primarily focused on nautical activities. The fisheries of Nisi Rhodos and great lumbermills of both Neo Limini and Neo Londinion all have thriving communities that are ripe for recruitment into the navy, while the trapping communities inland around the towns of Veria and Dine provide plenty of valuable fur for trade. They have also benefited from the new Vinlandic trade nearby, and providing roads to transport those trade goods to the capital would certainly be helpful.
    -[X] [55 Hyperpyra/-40 Expenses] [20 Vessels] The capability of a nation to defend its borders is often the most important factor in whether it will have to defend them at all. The same applies on the sea as it does on land. The commissioning and maintenance of heavy warships will show that Elysia is willing to fight to preserve her interests and provide her the means to do so.
    -[X] [22 Hyperpyra/-4 Expenses] [50 Vessels] Trade made the merchant republics some of the richest in Europe, capable of toppling small nations if it meant more gold flowing into their coffers. Their large navies were in no small part responsible for this dominance, the sheer quantity of trade ships carrying goods giving them the money to finance their dominance of the sea. We would be wise to follow their example.
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Sayle said:
If it was properly formatted with an X it should have shown up in the vote tally, and I had no reason to expect otherwise.
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UlseDovThur said:
[X] Plan: Administration
[ ] [140 Administrative] The increasing size of the militia and the more established tagmata is putting increasing strain on the supply system they rely on. By separating this portion of the military entirely from the central bureaucracy, we can improve efficiency at the cost of some oversight. Unfortunately our armies need this innovation if they are to continue at their present sizes.
[ ] [120 Military] The proliferation of artillery in Europe has taught the continental powers the the old ways are no longer sufficient when it comes to protecting against cannon. In response they have adopted new techniques for construction to deflect shot and provide overlapping fields of fire as firearms became more common. We should adopt these new methods for the day when we must defend against the same, even if it requires larger and more expensive bastions.

[ ] [60 Administrative] The new world is empty. Barbaroi may live here or there, but the vast and untamed wilderness must be quelled and set to rights if it is to be of any use at all. We should encourage the establishment of new settlements on our far border to lay claim to these empty territories. [Expansion Ideas]
[ ] [60 Diplomatic] The vital arteries of trade across the world flow through notable cities and ports, all of which are hives of competition between traders and merchants. We must stablish standard presences in these ports who will be able to advise our arriving ships of the best opportunities available to them. [Trade Ideas]
[ ] [60 Military] Morale is the cornerstone of military force. While tales of past glories are certainly helpful, the ancient skill of rhetoric is a key part of inspiring the men. With this in mind we should public military manuals of past exploits and tactics, so that our commanders and orators will have a solid foundation in what works and what doesn't. Tales of valour and victory can convince men to stand and fight against even hopeless odds. [Quality Ideas]

[ ] [100 Administrative] There is always room for tax reform, especially when it comes to poll taxes. Equally there are always projects that cost only time and effort that will improve conditions for the citizens and thus their health - public baths and aqueducts the most obvious among them. It can take a great deal of work on the part of the bureaucracy to put such plans into action, but the returns are worth it. (Increases development and tax income.) [Repeatable]

[ ] [1400 Hyperpyra] [Neo Londinion] The northern theme of Neo Londinion has a commandnig position on the Elysian coast, and so the major settlements there are primarily focused on nautical activities. The fisheries of Nisi Rhodos and great lumbermills of both Neo Limini and Neo Londinion all have thriving communities that are ripe for recruitment into the navy, while the trapping communities inland around the towns of Veria and Dine provide plenty of valuable fur for trade. They have also benefited from the new Vinlandic trade nearby, and providing roads to transport those trade goods to the capital would certainly be helpful.
[ ] [22 Hyperpyra/-4 Expenses] [16 Vessels] Trade made the merchant republics some of the richest in Europe, capable of toppling small nations if it meant more gold flowing into their coffers. Their large navies were in no small part responsible for this dominance, the sheer quantity of trade ships carrying goods giving them the money to finance their dominance of the sea. We would be wise to follow their example.
[ ] [120 Hyperpyra/-40 Expenses] [2 Flotillas] The transport of troops is not simply a matter of cramming them onto a ship and setting sail. Supplies are needed, organisation talent, and ships designed for the purpose. To provide these necessary services, the cost of the ships required to transport one tagma of ten thousand troops has been determined.
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It was so Xed in here.

LonelyWolf999 said:
[X] Plan The Greatest City In The World
-[X] Formalise this new state of affairs, with the land-owning Senators representing the region rather than themselves.
-[X] [90 Diplomatic] As our navy expands with increasing speed, so do the demands on our dockside industries that provide for the new vessels. It may be worth heavily investing in the workshops to create large complexes that are wholely devoted to the production of naval equipment. (Unlocks Naval Manufactories.)
-[X] [60 Military] When our ancestors fled Constantinople they took with them war and draft horses - yet they were not of the finest breeds nor of sufficient stock to improve them. If out kataphracts are to become the terror of the world we must import the finest horses in the world and develop our own breeding stock. [Quality Ideas]
-[X] [60 Diplomatic] Europe is a challenging trade destination that is off limits to most of our merchants because of the sturdy ships required to make the journey. While we cannot do anything for the established trade ships, we can mandate that all new vessels be capable of crossing the Atlantic, which will enable our merchants to travel further afield.. [Trade Ideas]
-[X] [100 Administrative] There is always room for tax reform, especially when it comes to poll taxes. Equally there are always projects that cost only time and effort that will improve conditions for the citizens and thus their health - public baths and aqueducts the most obvious among them. It can take a great deal of work on the part of the bureaucracy to put such plans into action, but the returns are worth it. (Increases development and tax income.) [Repeatable]
-[X] [680 Hyperpyra/-240 Expenses] To safeguard the coast and much of the southern territories will require a number of fortifications. Thusfar the areas most suitable have been identified as the provinces of Neauios, Akai, Odasus, and Nysepios. No doubt there will be more to do after that, but it will at least protect the more developed territories.
-[X] [1000 Hyperpyra] The proposal to turn New Constantinople into a port of world renown is expensive, but you are assured that such major works are needed to attract trade from across the Atlantic. Expanding the traders quarter, abolishing tariffs, increasing the availability of goods and ships and berths and services - all these cost money. The results may even be worth it.
-[X] [700 Hyperpyra] The proposed guardian statues of the Seagate will stand either side of the entrance to the Elysian bay, in stern warning to any aggressor who might attempt to breach the sanctity of the harbour and as an inspiration to Elysian sailors. Ioannes the Visionary will stand on one side, holding one of the Great Ships in one hand and the staff of Moses in the other. Konstantinos the Founder will guard the other, in one hand a scepter and the other a sword. Let none doubt the majesty of the realm they created.
-[X] [55 Hyperpyra/-40 Expenses] [5 Vessels] The capability of a nation to defend its borders is often the most important factor in whether it will have to defend them at all. The same applies on the sea as it does on land. The commissioning and maintenance of heavy warships will show that Elysia is willing to fight to preserve her interests and provide her the means to do so.
-[X] [120 Hyperpyra/-40 Expenses] [1 Flotillas] The transport of troops is not simply a matter of cramming them onto a ship and setting sail. Supplies are needed, organisation talent, and ships designed for the purpose. To provide these necessary services, the cost of the ships required to transport one tagma of ten thousand troops has been determined.
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And for the 1565 turn you also ignored the actual plan that was properly voted for.


[X] Plan: War with Cahokia
 
[X] Plan: War with Cahokia

I wonder if we should start saving some of the monarch points in reserve, for when the heir becomes emperor, so that we can more easily keep up in tech during his reign?
 
if the planned war with cahokia goes ahead i`m sure it will likely not be a problem at all. well if there is succes that is.

personally i say we build up a tiny bit more but some ppl think that going to war is the better plan
 
Redhead222 said:
if the planned war with cahokia goes ahead i`m sure it will likely not be a problem at all. well if there is succes that is.

personally i say we build up a tiny bit more but some ppl think that going to war is the better plan
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The issue with taking time to build up is that Cahokia is also building up and they are doing it faster than us by copying us. The longer we wait the closer they will get to our level so it's best if we attack now.
 
so it be our "high" teck, good quality, low numbers army V there larger or same amount of forces with more manpower behind them...

if we do go to war, here is hoping it goes well!
 
-[X] [55 Hyperpyra/-40 Expenses] [20 Vessels] The capability of a nation to defend its borders is often the most important factor in whether it will have to defend them at all. The same applies on the sea as it does on land. The commissioning and maintenance of heavy warships will show that Elysia is willing to fight to preserve her interests and provide her the means to do so.
-[X] [22 Hyperpyra/-4 Expenses] [50 Vessels] Trade made the merchant republics some of the richest in Europe, capable of toppling small nations if it meant more gold flowing into their coffers. Their large navies were in no small part responsible for this dominance, the sheer quantity of trade ships carrying goods giving them the money to finance their dominance of the sea. We would be wise to follow their example.

Woah woah woah. Hold up there. While I'll allow that you may be able to man that many new ships in extremis, you definitely cannot maintain the crewing requirements over time. Once attrition kicks in you're gonna have to mothball a lot of those ships. Sailors grow up and can join the navy, but they leave the service too for all the usual reasons. While there's a certain degree of padding (lowering requirements, conscripting skilled sailors, conscripting regular people and trying to train them), once you go over your capacity you'll be chewing into that padding until - bluntly put - you simply won't have the manpower to keep those ships afloat. At which point they'll be mothballed.

Heavy Carracks (Heavy Ships) {4 Sailor Capacity} [-40 Upkeep] [50 Cannon]: 14 Vessels
Caravels (Light Ships) {1 Sailor Capacity} [-4 Upkeep] [13 Cannon]: 85 Vessels
Flute (Transports) [-40 Upkeep] [5 Cannon]: 3 Flotillas
Sailor Capacity: 141/167

Just commissioning new ships eats into the padding. Usually it doesn't matter because they're quickly replenished by your excess (right now you gain 26, and commissioning a heavy ship takes 3 and a bit - a light ship just under 1), but go over that number and those losses won't be replenished at all.
 
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Where are the extra ten sailors accounted for? (14 x 4) + 75 is 131, rather than 141, so I don't know what we're missing.
 
Rui said:
What is the absolute maximum that we can construct and maintain? I'll change the plan to how many ships you say.
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It's in the capacity and what they cost. You could go slightly over short term, but that's not sustainable.

So you could afford 26 more light ships or 6 heavies, or some combination of the two.
 
Well, 20 caravels and a new carrack would require 24 capacity, if I'm reading that correctly.
 
UlseDovThur said:
[X] Plan: War with Cahokia
-[X] Institute the Themata Development Office.
-[X] [90 Diplomatic] While our independent merchants have been a source of great wealth both to themselves and the treasury itself, some risky ventures are beyond even the ability of the increasingly wealthy Emporoi to fund and maintain. This is where the state should intervene, sponsoring trade expeditions and giving these new trade companies the right to exercise certain governmental powers. More sources of trade will only enrich the realm.
-[X] [60 Administrative] As our territory expands so does the production of valuable trade goods, the lifeblood of our nation. We must ensure as a priority that the free movement of goods out of a settlement is one of the first goals for any developing town. Not only will it increase their prosperity, but it will allow us to quickly evaluate which initiatives will prove more profitable. [Expansion Ideas]
-[X] [60 Diplomatic] The expansion of the Emporoi has resulted in fierce competition between the merchant houses, many of which are now as wealthy as the dynatoi. As a result a number of families have turned to focus their attention inland where the market is less volatile, and have in doing so exposed weaknesses in our caravans and the availability of goods. We should institute a re-organisation of our colonial logistics immediately. [Trade Ideas] [End]
-[X] [60 Military] While our artillery is not so advanced as in Europe, especially on land, we can learn from the teething problem the continental wars have exposed. By grouping our artillery into batteries, we can best leverage their sudden surge of destructive power as well as manage them more effectively. Our troops will be confident knowing that any moment their foe could be blasted apart by the wrath of God Almighty. [Quality Ideas] [End]
-[X] [40 Administrative] Increase Stability. With a series of community initiatives and celebratory festivals you can improve the happiness of your citizens and their faith in the good-will and capabilities of their ruler. The citizen who thinks they live in a time of prosperity is a happy citizen. (Stability +1)

-[X] Prepare plans for a war of conquest against the Ottowa, Chickasaw, and Pawnee. If deafeated swiftly enough continue on into Cahokia itself.
-[X] Send a diplomatic mission to Haudenosaunee (secure their help in the coming war with Cahokia)
-[X] Send a diplomatic mission to Shawnee (secure their help in the coming war with Cahokia)
-[X] Send a diplomatic mission to Potawatomi (secure their help in the coming war with Cahokia)
Note: the Diplo missions happen before we attack.

-[X] [2500 Hyperpyra] With the ongoing expansion of Elysia's navy there has been plenty of competition for state contracts among the great lumbermills and shipwrights of the coast. But the time has come to firmly endorse certain companies with imperial favour and subsidy in order to expand their operations. We must ensure our navy never lacks for vital supplies and skilled labourers for construction.
-[X] [1400 Hyperpyra] [Neo Londinion] The northern theme of Neo Londinion has a commandnig position on the Elysian coast, and so the major settlements there are primarily focused on nautical activities. The fisheries of Nisi Rhodos and great lumbermills of both Neo Limini and Neo Londinion all have thriving communities that are ripe for recruitment into the navy, while the trapping communities inland around the towns of Veria and Dine provide plenty of valuable fur for trade. They have also benefited from the new Vinlandic trade nearby, and providing roads to transport those trade goods to the capital would certainly be helpful.
-[X] [55 Hyperpyra/-40 Expenses] [3 Vessels] The capability of a nation to defend its borders is often the most important factor in whether it will have to defend them at all. The same applies on the sea as it does on land. The commissioning and maintenance of heavy warships will show that Elysia is willing to fight to preserve her interests and provide her the means to do so.
-[X] [22 Hyperpyra/-4 Expenses] [10 Vessels] Trade made the merchant republics some of the richest in Europe, capable of toppling small nations if it meant more gold flowing into their coffers. Their large navies were in no small part responsible for this dominance, the sheer quantity of trade ships carrying goods giving them the money to finance their dominance of the sea. We would be wise to follow their example.

I'd rather not invade the northern tribes because they have already converted to Christianity so I figure given enough time they'll simple be absorbed the same way we absorbed the Yamasee in Florida.

Right now Cahokia is our only rival in America and they are becoming more developed by the day so it is probably best that we take them out now rather than later.
Edit: I also believe that now that we have hit the end of the military ideas line (for now? Not an EUIV player) it is the best time to do this. Any longer and they will have caught up to us even more.

And stability sense we'll probably need it for this fight.

I'd also like to keep at the ship ratio of 1 heavy ship for every 5 light ships.
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For some reason your plan isn't showing up correctly in the tally system, at least for me.

@Sayle Just thought I'd tag you to avoid a repeat of the situation last turn.
 
Given that the QM confirmed that we have the option to arrange a marriage for our heir, does anyone want to do that? How about we arrange a marriage between him and a daughter of the royal family of the Haudenosaunee? That could allow for us to strengthen ties between the Greeks and the Barbaroi.
 
That seems like an excellent idea, Ptolemy, especially if we will soon be expecting their aid in war.
 
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