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Elysian Dream (Byzantium in the New World) (EU4 Quest)

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It's nice that we have a census available in the turn info screen.
We might also benefit from listing our current alliances and vassals.

@Sayle
Are the Cahokia totemist or have they started to convert?
What are the current statuses of the Chickasaw and the Ottawa since they're the only tribes between Elysia and Cahokia? Do they have an alliance with Cahokia?
Also I like the little symbol you put on the map for the Knights of Rhodes.
 
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Really, what everyone in Europe should be worried about isn't the Big Blue Blob or the Ottomans.

They should be scared of the fact that Prussian Space Marines have arrived :V
 
JamesShazbond said:
I feel like Economic is more generally useful than expansion, which is only for filling out grey spots on the map. At this point, we've pretty much shut Europe out of North America, so I don't feel any particular rush to colonize faster. We'd be better served bringing out the potential of the vast lands we already have, and Economic is perfect for that. More tax, cheaper buildings, increased centralization, more trade goods, and cheaper development to turn the wilderness into a real empire.
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That's only if the economic group works like the EU4 idea group, but it likely doesn't. It's as much a philosophy and culture as it is a set of bonuses. The same is true of expansion, except that we know Sayle uses the colonists mechanic. If we're going by EU4 mechanics, then Economic is pretty much a useless idea group, it's never worth taking except in multiplayer late game or you start with an utterly crap economy, and never worthwhile in single player. All of its bonuses can't match up to the costs conserved by any one of the major Military idea groups (Quantity, Quality, Offensive, Defensive), and even worse it doesn't affect trade income, which is our biggest income source at the moment, whereas expansion adds trade power and merchants, and colonists can also be used to increase development in existing provinces.

From a narrative point of view, the philosophy of expansion is much better than economic, because it encourages growth in unsettled or low settlement areas. It's not purely for filling out grey spots on the map. Take a close look at the descriptions of the expansion idea group and the investments we have available:

[ ] The great expanses of Elysium are untamed and for the taking, and if we do not make haste we will soon play host to other powers who sup from this bountiful land. New settlements must be built, new incentives pronounced, and the banner of the Empire brought to the uttermost west. [Expansion Ideas - Admin]

[8500 Hyperpyra] The great fields of cotton and tobacco are the source of much of Elysia's wealth, but imperial investement has been primarily focused on more urbanised factors. Enticing people to move outside of the settlements and into the wilderness is an important factor in ensuring these novel industries thrive and remain competitive with the rest of the world.
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Note that this is a building for our existing territory, not outside of the claimed borders. And also:

[ ] [4000 Hyperpyra] The dyantoi have been suggesting imperial subsidy and investment in farming and ranching for so long it feels as though the first Word may have been 'latifundia' instead of 'Let there be Light'. Such an endeavour would be enormously expensive, and you are uncertain as to when it would return the investment in full. Still, the production of foodstuffs is one of the most fundamental measure of a nation's strength, and it may be worth the cost for that alone.
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Historically, the establishment of vast farms, both for foodstuffs and for cash craps in North America was tied directly to immigration and settlement expansion policies. Governments granted almost free land to people who were willing to settle in new and undeveloped areas, creating a mass rush of immigration and migration. This is predicated on having vast amounts of land up for grabs -- that means we need to claim those borders and encourage people to move in.

In 1803 the Louisiana Purchase took place, doubling the size of the country. By 1840 almost 7 million Americans had migrated westward in hopes of securing land and being prosperous...Many of the pioneers who settled the west became cash croppers and grew marketable products...The Homestead Act became law...provided 160 acres of unoccupied land to settlers if they improved the land and lived there for five years. Land rushes, similar to races, often occurred when land was opened up for settlement. People would race off to stake their land claim, sometimes as many as 50,000 people at a time.
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It was exactly the same in Canada:
"a stalwart peasant in a sheep-skin coat, born on the soil, whose forefathers have been farmers for ten generations, with a stout wife and a half dozen children, is a good quality."....After decades of landless tenant occupation on tiny farms in Europe, free 160 acre homesteads in the Canadian West appealed to these poor eastern European agriculturalists.
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While the timeframe of the mass immigration was much later, it doesn't change the core principle of the idea. To encourage people to have lots of kids, get immigrants, and develop our agricultural base, we need tons of cheap land. Having the east coast is not enough. The higher our trade volume, the more expensive the coastal land will be, and we've already been settled in the east for about a hundred years.


The essential point is that Expansion idea group is not just about setting up borders. It's about increasing the rate of settlement and growth levels across the country. If we want more people and development, we need expansion. Economic makes us more efficient, but expansion gives us a bigger base. It's a fundamental rule of economics that GDP = productivity * population. Either your technology becomes more efficient, or you get a bigger population. But population is far more useful in other ways, and harder to catch up on when you're behind.
 
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How ironic that a plan that ignores the Expansion group should be called "filling in the gaps". I'm not a fan of surrendering land to the Vinlanders, especially where we already have land on both sides, but if it temporarily secures the border and allows us to look elsewhere, all the better.

[x] plan strong fences make good neighbors
 
Skywalker_T-65 said:
Really, what everyone in Europe should be worried about isn't the Big Blue Blob or the Ottomans.

They should be scared of the fact that Prussian Space Marines have arrived :V
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Just have to hope that the Ottos piss off Prussia one way or another and get cut down to size. Cause the Ottos should be able to crush the Mamelukes in a couple of wars and unless it gets bogged down in India its going to spread like a plague in Africa and beyond until the Western and Eastern military finally surpass them in what, 100~ years in game?

Or Ottos collapse under its own weight.
 
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Money Maketh Man = 13 (including broken vote from bottom of tally)

strong fences make good neighbours = 12
Adhoc vote count started by Ptolemy on Feb 15, 2019 at 8:31 AM, finished with 63 posts and 30 votes.
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Well, 14 for each now. Hopefully we'll get a decisive tie-breaker, and one will get a big lead before the QM closes the vote.
 
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