Their Light Will Be Ours [Stellaris]
- Thread starter Evenstar
- Start date
- Original Sci-Fi
Raiu
Per Aspera Ad Astra
- Location
- United States
The unfortunate thing, however, is that we do not have dedicated munitions at this time. The key thing is that we now have a weapon beyond suicide ramming the enemy, even if it is a very, very ineffective weapon. Right now, I'm picturing the asteroid harness, in its current state, as a stopgap weapon until we research/beg/steal/borrow/barter an actual weapon. After we get a true weapon, the asteroid harness will still be useful as a small scale ship capture device, though some upgrades may need to be done to do so effectively.
[X][Sparks]Warp Perturbation
[X][SCIENCE]Hybrid Vigor
[X][Discard]Independent Enterprise
Rockeye
Plausible Engineer
- Location
- Midwestern U.S.
The asteroid harness requires us to get right up next to a target and spend hours putting a net around it. More of a salvage tool than a capture one.
I think we have time. And if war does break out, we can tell the Sparks "Give us weapons tech right now or we won't be able to help you defend the gaia world."
[X][Sparks]Warp Perturbation
[X][SCIENCE]Hybrid Vigor
[X][Discard]Terrestrial Agriculture
[X][SCIENCE]Hybrid Vigor
[X][Discard]Terrestrial Agriculture
- Location
- Croatia
That is what I meant. The thing we pick during this choice is shared. I have used turn instead of choice. If I understand it right, stuff under the tag [Sparks] is shared. So yes, just the bonus tech.
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10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
[X][Sparks]Warp Perturbation
[X][SCIENCE]Non-Invasive Genefixes
[X][Discard]Terrestrial Agriculture
A bit risky choice, but I think the reward will be great, and the risk not all that bad. I don't like ruggedized robots. They seem like they densify robots (higher cost -> higher reward) instead of improving them. That's not needed till we start moving bots around.
[X][SCIENCE]Non-Invasive Genefixes
[X][Discard]Terrestrial Agriculture
A bit risky choice, but I think the reward will be great, and the risk not all that bad. I don't like ruggedized robots. They seem like they densify robots (higher cost -> higher reward) instead of improving them. That's not needed till we start moving bots around.
[X][Sparks]Warp Perturbation
[X][SCIENCE]Hybrid Vigor
[X][Discard]Terrestrial Agriculture
I agree with Veekie that we should start Hybrid Vigour as it can eliminate some of the potential negatives that overspecialization causes in the future, which we've already seen demonstrations of already within the narrative.
[X][SCIENCE]Hybrid Vigor
[X][Discard]Terrestrial Agriculture
I agree with Veekie that we should start Hybrid Vigour as it can eliminate some of the potential negatives that overspecialization causes in the future, which we've already seen demonstrations of already within the narrative.
- Location
- Croatia
That is not what Hybrid Vigour does. It does theoretical work on possible generalist form, as a cross between several other forms. This means it can draw benefit from multiple forms, and while not being able to excel in a single area as a dedicated form, it can become pretty good in desired area.
However, do we want to upgrade a Hybrid Form? Currently our population is split between:
20% Klaxes Thoughtform
25% Klaxes Tradeform
30% Klaxes Workform
5% Klaxes Warform
20% Hybrid Klaxes
Which means we have 20% Scientists, 25% traders (which I'm guessing is administrative jobs), 30% workers (trades), 5% soldiers and 20% which are split between some of those forms. This research would do theoretical work to advance the Hybrid Klaxes, which haven't been upgraded with Bioengineering as much as other forms. Considering that our character is a Hybrid form, this means some buffs for us 10 years down the line (and 1 more research action). It does not prevent any sort of malus, and I don't remember any narrative which speaks of such malus.
So it's a start to working on a boost to 20% of our population, and not prevention of of some malus.
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Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
[X][Sparks]Warp Perturbation
[X][SCIENCE] The Darkstar Array
[X][Discard] Terrestrial Agriculture
Warp Perturbation because it makes secret communication easier.
Darkstar Array solely for the Science!! of it. Otherwise prefer equilibrium theory because if the increased RM efficiency.
Terrestrial Agriculture because it's kind of the least useful until we move to a more land-y planet. Still quite good for terraforming practice but ~
[X][SCIENCE] The Darkstar Array
[X][Discard] Terrestrial Agriculture
Warp Perturbation because it makes secret communication easier.
Darkstar Array solely for the Science!! of it. Otherwise prefer equilibrium theory because if the increased RM efficiency.
Terrestrial Agriculture because it's kind of the least useful until we move to a more land-y planet. Still quite good for terraforming practice but ~
- Location
- Croatia
Our current Memes are:
Eugenics, Specialization, Self-Modification, SCIENCE!! and Workability.
Workability was gained just last year, and it represents working out of speciality ( I think, the text is a bit vauge), which is something Klaxes are bad at, but Xartaxes is decent due to being a Hybrid form. However that may not be a bad thing. Who would sent a Thoughtform to war, or have a Warform lead a research team? Problem is when somebody excels at something which is not his form. We do currently live in a society where you are limited by your birth, since Form switching is not a existing technology (it was available to pick during the 3000 Tech selection).
The Hybrid Vigour is a starting tech for a general boost to Hybrid forms, which clears up some lack of stats for those born with Hybrids, but doesn't actually do anything for the malus for working out of specialty. To counter the inherent Klax weakness you need to either switch everybody to Hybrid form or work around it.
To clear it out, this is not that kind of hyperspecialization, it's a trade specialization. A Thoughtform is perfectly capable of researching chemistry, physics, biology, languages, music and so on. If it however needs to lift 100 kilograms, a better choice would indeed be a multidisciplinary expertise/form.
And what is wrong with rapid deployment retrovirus? If it's safely synthesized and prepared, it's not dangerous. It's a tool. It's like calling a car too dangerous. It's a well used method in biochemistry and molecular biology.
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- Location
- Queensland, Australia
[X][Sparks]Warp Perturbation
[X][SCIENCE]Hybrid Vigor
[X][Discard]Terrestrial Agriculture
I at least want to have started down the hybrid tech tree before we start non-invasive genefixes. Because that Tech is likely to wipe it out. After all, if you can change your form at will, why would you keep an inferior version? And everything we 'know'for sure would say hybrids are just straight up inferior without some research into them.
[X][SCIENCE]Hybrid Vigor
[X][Discard]Terrestrial Agriculture
I at least want to have started down the hybrid tech tree before we start non-invasive genefixes. Because that Tech is likely to wipe it out. After all, if you can change your form at will, why would you keep an inferior version? And everything we 'know'for sure would say hybrids are just straight up inferior without some research into them.
Evenstar
Triple Jump Unlocked
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Just the bonus tech.
You and me both. There's a reason why this is on a five-year cycle.
- Location
- Croatia
So your argument for picking Hybrid Vigor is the fact that there is a superior action and as such you want to pick a inferior action now so that we may do what exactly? You just described a waste of a action. If it was a prerequirement I would understand picking it, but it's not.
Likewise, there is no indication that Hybrid Vigor will get deleted by the ability to switch Forms. It may be less useful then (though it will still have it's uses, it will be just that hardly used blade in a Swiss knife), and as such it may be hard to convince others to choose it for research.
Apologies if I come as annoying during last few posts, it's just that from my perspective people are picking Hybrid Vigor for reasons which are factually wrong (there is no malus which we need to correct via Hybrid Vigor). I consider the research itself a decent boost and a good all around pick, but I do want people to pick it for what it is, not for what they think it is. It's also perfectly possible I'm the one in the wrong in regards to the interpretation of what research does, in which case my apologies.
[X][Sparks]Warp Perturbation
[X][SCIENCE]Jump-Capable Shuttlecraft
[X][Discard]Terrestrial Agriculture
[X][SCIENCE]Jump-Capable Shuttlecraft
[X][Discard]Terrestrial Agriculture
- Location
- Queensland, Australia
Actually, I think Hybrid Vigour is superior right now. Probably not explaining myself the best admittedly. I also don't think Hybrid Vigour will get deleted, but I suspect it might be made rare if we reinforce our specialisation meme too much more and lose Workability.
As for the lack of a malus, we actually have already seen strong hints that there is a malus. It's just because our character is a hybrid that we aren't being hit by it anywhere near as much.
The way I figure it is that if our character was a specialised form, then during the diplomacy/trade arc we might have been locked into 'default' options, and been unable to do write-ins or something. Basically, we know that Klaxis in their specialty are great. But they are also miserable outside it without training.
Which is why we got the Workability meme after completing the diplomacy mini-arc. Because we were working outside our specialty without training and we're okay at it whilst only making a few forgivable and easy errors. Normal Klaxis would probably need consistent critical success equivalents to pull off that same level of 'skill'. So people wanted to know what the hell was going on that they'd missed.
Or at least, that's my interpretation.
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Evenstar
Triple Jump Unlocked
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- She/Her
@Raron, Re: Workability:
Workability, like all memes, is deliberately broad and vague: much like SCIENCE!!, Paranoia or Meditocracy, the central concept is affected hugely by its cultural environment. If we were to inherit Meritocracy from the Lights, for example, it would be highly unlikely to look the same as their rather ruthless and cutthroat power games.
The current Klaxes interpretation of Workability is along the lines of "there's such a thing as 'good enough'." It's the cultural willingness to try working with skills you know you have no talent at, or attempt ideas you doubt will succeed. In a less reserved culture like the Lights', it could be summed up by "hold my beer, and watch this!"
In our society, the results are subtler - it's expressed more like the philosophy behind the Journal of Negative Results. "I have not failed to create a better lightbulb: I've found five thousand ways that don't work."
I'd like to emphasize, however, that all memes are double edged. Specialization makes us brittle as it makes us stronger. SCIENCE!! gives us faster technological progress, but at higher associated risk. The Lights' Paranoia keeps them safe from good deals as well as bad ones, and while their Meritocracy puts their best in positions of power, it's also a major cause of their crippling infighting.
As such, Memetic decisions aren't so much a matter of what's most powerful as they are a matter of playstyle.
Workability, like all memes, is deliberately broad and vague: much like SCIENCE!!, Paranoia or Meditocracy, the central concept is affected hugely by its cultural environment. If we were to inherit Meritocracy from the Lights, for example, it would be highly unlikely to look the same as their rather ruthless and cutthroat power games.
The current Klaxes interpretation of Workability is along the lines of "there's such a thing as 'good enough'." It's the cultural willingness to try working with skills you know you have no talent at, or attempt ideas you doubt will succeed. In a less reserved culture like the Lights', it could be summed up by "hold my beer, and watch this!"
In our society, the results are subtler - it's expressed more like the philosophy behind the Journal of Negative Results. "I have not failed to create a better lightbulb: I've found five thousand ways that don't work."
I'd like to emphasize, however, that all memes are double edged. Specialization makes us brittle as it makes us stronger. SCIENCE!! gives us faster technological progress, but at higher associated risk. The Lights' Paranoia keeps them safe from good deals as well as bad ones, and while their Meritocracy puts their best in positions of power, it's also a major cause of their crippling infighting.
As such, Memetic decisions aren't so much a matter of what's most powerful as they are a matter of playstyle.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
From a physical perspective researching hybrid vigor first will mean that the results of switching firms - and thus genetic and epigenetic factors - will have more attention paid to them. Conversely, performing the outpatient switch research means that we'd have a larger pool of data on the impact of hybridized strains. But we'd decrease our pool of research candidates while collecting it.
Edit: also, please refer to the trait selection threaark.
Edit: also, please refer to the trait selection threaark.
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Rockeye
Plausible Engineer
- Location
- Midwestern U.S.
I don't mind the specialization playstyle. We have different people for different tasks - adapting to crazy new situations may suffer some, but it's something to deal with and a drawback along the advantages highly skilled specialists give us.
You know, without the high bonuses our specialists gave us back when we flung a potato gun drone at the precursor cruiser we probably would have either not gotten anything useful out of it, or lost the ship with all hands.
Edit: ...I looked back on the rolls and apparently that was almost entirely a cutspawn and self-modification-meme operation, because it was totally unplanned and seat of the pants. Guess I'm wrong.
You know, without the high bonuses our specialists gave us back when we flung a potato gun drone at the precursor cruiser we probably would have either not gotten anything useful out of it, or lost the ship with all hands.
Edit: ...I looked back on the rolls and apparently that was almost entirely a cutspawn and self-modification-meme operation, because it was totally unplanned and seat of the pants. Guess I'm wrong.
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More that its an inherently selfreplicating process, thus some extra precautions should be taken.
Pretty much it yes. Hyperspecialization is useful, but specializing exclusively into it has pitfalls, especially as hybrid forms get wiped out. Hybrid Vigor, in essence, is taking advantage of political climate to ensure we don't veer so sharply into an extreme that we get trapped there.
Generally speaking you want hyperspecialized commoners and generics because they are incredibly efficient ways to make use of social resources, you want generalist heroes and leadership who can consider things with less blindspots.
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- Location
- Queensland, Australia
Basically? We want to generate a bedrock of general competence that we don't have yet. And then have the specialists who have determined that they're going to be focused on a single topic, and thus are the single best at doing anything in that topic... At the disadvantage of needing help with anything else.
Using an example that I think won't be distorted too much by the differences and my lack of knowledge... Damage Control in the Pacific during WW2.
We're currently the Japanese. We want to be the Americans. The differences? The Japanese had a bunch of dedicated DC teams, and those are the only ones that received damage control training and were expected to do damage control. Which meant that they were great... The first time or two they could get access to the area damaged. Afterwards the casualties started adding up, and then there's the times they couldn't even get to the biggest problem spot due to other damage.
Whereas the Americans gave everyone a basic level of DC training, and then had the specialists who got even more. So the normal sailors would start trying to contain the damage before the DC team even got there, and once the DC team got there they'd 'recruit' the nearby personnel when more bodies were needed to deal with all the different damaged areas, with the DC team members acting as guides, directors, leaders and experts.
Which meant damage started getting reduced immediately everywhere, and then the experts arrived to actually fix things. And because they could 'recruit'additional personnel and not need to hold their hands the entire time, they were a lot more resistant to losing capabilities due to casualties.
Or simplified, we're currently all specialists really, or at least we're trying to be. Which means the moment something we haven't expected turns up that doesn't fit into any of our specialties, we are in big trouble.
We instead want to be a species of optimised generalists as a baseline who then optimise further into specialists and hyper-specialists. Because that means we get almost the same benefits as if we'd focused on specialists, but if something enexpected happens we don't need to start from the bottom and work our way up, or adjust a very specialised structure to deal with something it wasn't meant to deal with. All before we run out of time to deal with whatever it is.
Again, this is all my own opinion and I think I haven't managed to confuse myself here, so it should be okay...
Using an example that I think won't be distorted too much by the differences and my lack of knowledge... Damage Control in the Pacific during WW2.
We're currently the Japanese. We want to be the Americans. The differences? The Japanese had a bunch of dedicated DC teams, and those are the only ones that received damage control training and were expected to do damage control. Which meant that they were great... The first time or two they could get access to the area damaged. Afterwards the casualties started adding up, and then there's the times they couldn't even get to the biggest problem spot due to other damage.
Whereas the Americans gave everyone a basic level of DC training, and then had the specialists who got even more. So the normal sailors would start trying to contain the damage before the DC team even got there, and once the DC team got there they'd 'recruit' the nearby personnel when more bodies were needed to deal with all the different damaged areas, with the DC team members acting as guides, directors, leaders and experts.
Which meant damage started getting reduced immediately everywhere, and then the experts arrived to actually fix things. And because they could 'recruit'additional personnel and not need to hold their hands the entire time, they were a lot more resistant to losing capabilities due to casualties.
Or simplified, we're currently all specialists really, or at least we're trying to be. Which means the moment something we haven't expected turns up that doesn't fit into any of our specialties, we are in big trouble.
We instead want to be a species of optimised generalists as a baseline who then optimise further into specialists and hyper-specialists. Because that means we get almost the same benefits as if we'd focused on specialists, but if something enexpected happens we don't need to start from the bottom and work our way up, or adjust a very specialised structure to deal with something it wasn't meant to deal with. All before we run out of time to deal with whatever it is.
Again, this is all my own opinion and I think I haven't managed to confuse myself here, so it should be okay...
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