Their Light Will Be Ours [Stellaris]

I can see why molting the shell repeatedly as they grow larger would be bad, but I don't really see why shells would be more expensive than skin + bones, especially in an underwater-evolving life form. The like "slowly fills in" thing is interesting. Is it like how children's brain pan slowly solidifies?

Maybe use pedipalps as the fine-manipulation method? They're already delicate food eating things, so it vaguely makes sense even if it means building tools using your lips. You could also just write it off as a highly developed proprioceptive sense + eyes. Like, you don't need a great tactile sense to do manipulation. You just need delicate and steady manipulators.

I'd kind of assumed they mostly ate meat or fruit-alikes because most herbivores are pretty dumb. You don't need to be smart if you're an herbivore.
Octopuses dont know what their limbs are doing unless they are watching them do it. So there is precedent.
 
Octopuses dont know what their limbs are doing unless they are watching them do it. So there is precedent.
My understanding of octopi is that that's a matter of decentralization and the visual stuff is just to bring in the more centralized part of the brain, which then more strongly directs the arms.

The shell/skin dialectic of tool use is whether shell is sufficiently sensitive and flexible.

My opinion for the former is that one doesn't need to rely on texture to develop tools, pressure is sensitive. And as far as finding faults in rocks to perform knapping goes, tapping and feeling the result/listening to the resultant vibrations would be sufficient.
(Or you could always just say that there are texture sensitive nerve cells on the skin that burrow through porous sections of the shell. *shrug*)
My opinion for the latter is that yeah you need delicate yet strong manipulators. I kinda want to pretend pincers are sufficient for using tools but realistically they aren't. They might be decent for creating tools due to their strength tho.

As far as evolutionary klaxipology goes, as giant energy hungry creatures they'd maybe be more inclined toward traps rather than tools per se, unless they made tools to harvest eels or something?
 
@Umi-san:
1: Bone takes a lot of energy to manufacture, and a full shell means a lot more bone than just an internal skeleton. (Because you're making cylinders instead of rods, the volume of bone increases dramatically - I wouldn't be surprised if it squared.)

2: Not the weirdest idea I've heard by a long shot. The person I brought this to suggested "prehensile tongue."

3: You've got the causation exactly backwards: herbivores are dumb because they can't support large brains while eating calorie-poor foods like grass.

Thanks for the other thoughts!
 
Well, I can think of a couple of elements.
-I imagine for modern Klaxes a lot of their caraspace is nearly cosmetic rather than defensive(not unlike human skin being pretty much hairless and defensively irrelevant beyond the biological barrier relative to our closest evolutionary cousins). Pretty likely to be concurrent to their evolution as tool users, especially if you insert a global disaster which wiped out the primary predators above their size category.

-Tool limbs, I think if you were to emphasize on the younger forms and the early development of genemodding, its possible with a bit of a stretch to develop tool-species, or even use immature stages as tools(I got the impression that Klaxes spawn were significantly morphologically different with more than one metamorphosis before the adult stage, where its possible the juvenile scavenger forms are usable as fine manipulators where the adult hunter forms are not).

-One way to bypass caloric requirements is to have extended sessile/hibernation periods. That said aquatic species do play well with having a lot of meat based nutrition, as a lot of large aquatic creatures have large fat deposits to provide thermal insulation. Crabs doing whale ranching?
 
You've got the causation exactly backwards: herbivores are dumb because they can't support large brains while eating calorie-poor foods like grass.
I've read this before, but it's always sort of hand waved (aka I like math and thus far people are like "everyone knows that....") and seems less like something inherent to the role and more like a metabolic deficiency. Not that "herbivores don't need to be smart" and "herbivores can't afford to be smart" are contradictory.

Edit: Also, apparently crab exoskeletons are chitin fortified by calcium carbonate, rather than bone. Still pricy but a cool adaption of chitin and use of the pretty prevalent (in the ocean) carbonate.

I feel like veekie's whole "use the young as tools" idea is good, but a bit too close to that one sci-fi series Prador Moon or something.
 
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I feel like veekie's whole "use the young as tools" idea is good, but a bit too close to that one sci-fi series Prador Moon or something.
Never heard of it, just thought its a natural progression for a species which doesn't consider its young to be people until they achieve sentience as adults, and with a high proficiency in genetics(and in turn the predecessors of selective breeding/crossbreeding epigenetic stimulations), to adapt the most common lower lifeform available towards utilitarian purposes.
 
What if they were hermit-crab like (sorta)? As in, their natural shell is pretty soft/weak/cheap, and they get by on stealing the shells of more sturdy/stupid creatures?
 
Never heard of it, just thought its a natural progression for a species which doesn't consider its young to be people until they achieve sentience as adults, and with a high proficiency in genetics(and in turn the predecessors of selective breeding/crossbreeding epigenetic stimulations), to adapt the most common lower lifeform available towards utilitarian purposes.
They arguably don't need to do breeding/cross breeding to eventually lead them to genetics - they could start with lenses and cellular anatomy and move down. But yeah, that makes sense and would be likely especially if performed with the awareness that how you're treating/shaping young now shapes them later.

This furthermore fits with the idea of slowly growing partial shells. As an example of the attitude they take. They could shape their young's shells as they grow - in the same way that people have flattened/peaked foreheads of their kids - and in doing so shape their range of choices in a very basic way.
 
What if they were hermit-crab like (sorta)? As in, their natural shell is pretty soft/weak/cheap, and they get by on stealing the shells of more sturdy/stupid creatures?

That requires there to be shells of giant creatures though.

That said, perhaps it would be more feasible to just steal the shell material in pieces, then work those into a mosaic of a shell.
 
Yep. Was thinking that a big part of it is cultural, if they have culturally ingrained deeply practices of shaping life, including their own presentient young, to their uses, then theres going to be a lot more looking into ways to do it better, and a lot more of the cautions built into social expectations
 
What if instead of being crabs the Klaxes are actually octopi with accretionary accumulations of shell and sand, like sea anemone but in crab form.
 
I've read this before, but it's always sort of hand waved (aka I like math and thus far people are like "everyone knows that....") and seems less like something inherent to the role and more like a metabolic deficiency. Not that "herbivores don't need to be smart" and "herbivores can't afford to be smart" are contradictory.

It looks like there was actually a recent study about wether human brains are unusually energy-hungry.

A: Nope, they aren't. We devote about as much of our daily energy budget to our brains as many others in our clade, including tree shrews.

Further examination of the claim that we have unusually large brains shows that our brains are not unusually large among animals: the actual claim is more nuanced, which is that our brains are unusually large for an animal of our body weight.

So the answer, as is usual with science, gets more complex the more you investigate it. Widely-applicable models like the Theory of Evolution or Theory of Gravity are remarkable because they are rare.

Reading between the lines here and hypothesizing: Brain size scales with body size because larger bodies mean more sensorimotor signals to process. Encephalization quotient, then, might be a proxy for how much of the brain isn't dedicated to "signals processing", which itself might be a proxy for intelligence. These relationships appear to hold for mammals, so this model accurately predicts that dolphins are relatively intelligent animals.

However, avians and reptiles have very different brain structure from mammals, so this double-indirect proxy doesn't accurately predict their intelligence levels. Some hypotheses:
1: Brains in general can get smarter without getting larger, but this has only been selected for in avians.
2: Bird brains' neuroanatomy gives them specifically the ability to get smarter without getting larger.
3: The scale factor for avian brain sizes is different, and therefore a mammal baseline gives bad results.

Examining the animals outlined in the study, it looks like the other comparable extant mammals are much smaller than us, and therefore their brain's energy expenditure is unsurprising. They have a similar brain-to-body-size ratio to us, but because they are much smaller, a much greater portion of that brain mass has to be devoted to the autonomous nervous system.

So then this ought to predict that humans have unusually fast metabolisms for a large animal. (Googling now...)

...and indeed this is the case.

So to summarize:
Compared to all other mammals:
1: Humans have slow metabolisms, as expected for a large animal.
2: Humans have slightly-above-average brain size, but don't stand out.
3: Humans don't use an unusually large portion of our daily energy budget on our brains.
4: Humans are unusually large - in the top quarter of all species.

Compared to other mammals of a similar body size:
1: Humans have unusually fast metabolisms.
2: Humans have astonishingly big brains. (Encephalization quotient of ~7.5: the same calculation produces a value of ~4.5 for dolphins and a value of ~2.5 for chimps, orcas and elephants.)
3: We don't know for sure if we use an unusually large portion of our daily energy budget on our brains, but I would expect the answer to be "yes."

My personal conclusion:
Humans are unusual in that they've preserved the brain-to-body-size ratio, metabolic rate, and percentage energy expenditure of the brain of a much smaller animal. None of this is unprecedented: what's weird about us is that we've retained these traits that other species lose as they grow bigger.

This suggests that there's selection pressure against higher metabolic rate and higher proportion of energy spent on the brain in megafauna, which makes sense when you consider the relative strength of a human vs. e. g. a chimpanzee. In a bare-knuckle match between a modern human and a chimpanzee, I'd bet on the chimp.

However, these traits have reason to exist, because they're adaptive when you're a tiny little tree shrew. You need all that brain just to manage your senses and reflexes. You also need that high metabolic rate so you can explode into action when you're about to be eaten by a predator.

So this results in the surprising conclusion that the human brain might be an atavistic trait! Far from being "more evolved" than other species, the secrets of intelligence might rest in a very small shrew-like creature we happened to retain some genetic code from.
 
I like science crabs.
Same.

Just to reassure you all, I'm not going to abandon the overall morphology of the Klaxes at this point: everything described onscreen for them remains canon. Fortunately, I've been sparing with the details for exactly this reason, so I don't have to sacrifice much-if-any accuracy in the name of consistency. (Coconut crab adaptations get me most of the way, while still keeping the overall morphology something that you'd definitely describe as "a giant alien crab!!" if it happened to appear on your front lawn.)

As a side note, the person I consulted also said it would be "unsustainable" for me to write a continuing series of stories from the perspective of a truly alien species, because their actions would often be immoral-by-human-standards to such a degree that it would repel my audience and prevent them from sympathizing: and if I didn't repel my audience, they'd probably all be sociopaths: and if they weren't, then I'd be dangerously desentizing them to sociopathic behaviour.

So, uh, yeah. I take their advice on biology, not their advice on writing.

What if they were hermit-crab like (sorta)? As in, their natural shell is pretty soft/weak/cheap, and they get by on stealing the shells of more sturdy/stupid creatures?

Yep, this is the actual strategy used by coconut crabs until their adult shell hardens. I see no reason for Klaxes spawn not to adopt the same tactic, and the adaptation of "carrying a house" - a very rudimentary form of tool use - suggests a pathway to more complex manual dexterity.
 
Same.

Just to reassure you all, I'm not going to abandon the overall morphology of the Klaxes at this point: everything described onscreen for them remains canon. Fortunately, I've been sparing with the details for exactly this reason, so I don't have to sacrifice much-if-any accuracy in the name of consistency. (Coconut crab adaptations get me most of the way, while still keeping the overall morphology something that you'd definitely describe as "a giant alien crab!!" if it happened to appear on your front lawn.)

As a side note, the person I consulted also said it would be "unsustainable" for me to write a continuing series of stories from the perspective of a truly alien species, because their actions would often be immoral-by-human-standards to such a degree that it would repel my audience and prevent them from sympathizing: and if I didn't repel my audience, they'd probably all be sociopaths: and if they weren't, then I'd be dangerously desentizing them to sociopathic behaviour.

So, uh, yeah. I take their advice on biology, not their advice on writing.



Yep, this is the actual strategy used by coconut crabs until their adult shell hardens. I see no reason for Klaxes spawn not to adopt the same tactic, and the adaptation of "carrying a house" - a very rudimentary form of tool use - suggests a pathway to more complex manual dexterity.
Yeah, no. That is just silly. The average person is able to make the distinction between actual in-person moral behavior, and the moral behavior of fiction characters. This is why we are able to write interesting stories with villains as their protagonist, or write stories about anti-heroes, or about actual sociopaths and psychopaths (Hannibal Lector anyone?).

I know you already know this, but I will say it anyway for the audience. Writing fictional stories is an escape. We use it as a window into a life other than our own. Sometimes the people we watch are bad people, yet we find ourselves invested in their struggles all the same. Sometimes they are good people, and we root for goodness to triumph over evil, as it so often does not in the real world.

As for crabs, coconut crabs are my favorite kind of crabs that arent mirelurks. Hermit crabs make a close second. This pleases me.
 
Man, I'm glad I came back to the thread. Now I have this mental image of not!Coconut Crab Rancheros riding not!Dolphins to herd not!Blue Whale pods.

Yee-haw.
 
I keep thinking of the "crab holding a knife" gif as an angry young klaxes, but that's constantly more wildly inaccurate, oh well.
 
3005: Regarding Secretaries
Sighing, you flip back to the secretary requisition form, and begin to read. Might as well get this whole process underway up front.

... Wait a moment, what's this tucked in under the front page? Another letter?

You slip a claw in, and tear it open.

Director Xartaxes:

As a new Director, you may be unaware of the fact that Directorate Chairs are actually composed of many smaller sub-duties. Currently, you fill the following positions:
- Chair of Interstellar Exploration
- Chair of Warp Physics
- Director of Exploratory Research
- Exploratory Infrastructure Director
- Director of Anomalous Studies
- Interstellar Ambassador of the Klaxes Directorate
- Interstellar Missions Director
- Sky-Survey Director
- Reverse-Engineering Program Director
- Admiral of the Interstellar Fleet

Traditionally, Directors keep the portions of their responsibilities that they have the most expertise and interest in, and delegate the rest to sub-chairs and aides. However, it appears that you've been trying to do without any delegation whatsoever.

This has been manageable so far for you, partly due to others stepping in to claim authority that's technically not theirs, partly due to your own personal administrative zeal. However, as the scope of your duties grows, this ramshackle solution is unlikely to hold.

I'm not saying you need to turn over everything - in fact, I'd recommend against it, since your personal acumen is why you have a directorship in the first place - but you ought to at least review what you're working with and how.

I'm sure you're familiar with the five levels of advisory support available from your time as a Director on smaller boards. However, given that your last Board position was in 2993, I suspect you may need the following refresher on them.If you don't, feel free to skip past to where I discuss your management style.

Level 1: No support.
The Director makes all Decisions regarding that particular area of their authority, as frequently and as finely-grained as practical.

Level 2: Recorder support.
The Director makes a detailed plan for an extended period, and then entrusts that plan to the Recorders for implementation. Further Decisions are only made if the Recorders deem it necessary to deviate from the plan due to some unexpected circumstance.

Level 3: Synthesis support.
The Director is presented with recommended courses of action by Synthesis advisors, and selects from among those options, possibly with minor modifications.

Level 4: Full support.
Both the Recorders and Synthesis work together with the Director to draft and implement long-term plans.

Level 5: Full delegation.
The Director only provides a broad strategic overview, and entrusts a sub-chair with implementation details.

Examining your current system, it seems to approximate the following levels for your narrower positions:

Exploratory Grant Committee Chair: 2
Exploratory Infrastructure Director: 1
Director of Anomalous Studies: 3
Interstellar Ambassador of the Klaxes Directorate: 5
Interstellar Missions Director: 1
Sky-Survey Director: 3
Reverse-Engineering Program Director: 5
Admiral of the Interstellar Fleet: 5

This approach seems just a bit haphazard. I recommend seriously considering which areas of your duties you actually want to interface with, what level of detail you actually need, and allocating as many staff as necessary to make that possible for you.

Faithfully yours,
Sponsor Varashta

You blink a moment at the signature - who signs their letters "faithfully" anymore? - but it's a small thing. Varashta is clearly still looking out for you, as your, ah, Sponsor. You wouldn't be surprised if he had a claw in arranging the "unofficial delegation" he mentioned.

- Oh, there's a postscript. "By the way, the Reader who's been preparing your interstellar survey reports was an utter incompetent who fed you garbage data. Though a Recorder review caught him out, I recommend taking a closer interest in the scanning program, at least for the next year or two."

You make a disgusted clicking noise in the back of your stomach.

What level of support do you request, and for which programs?

Exploratory Grant Committee Chair:
This is the Chair responsible for specifying what research the exploratory program will fund.
(Your level of investment here determines the detail level and frequency of Research Grant Cycles.)

[ ][Grants] No Support

Status updates from the research programs appear on a yearly basis, and grant money may be redirected from year to year. This allows you to hasten research by appropriating funds from other areas: however, the atmosphere of financial uncertainty this creates emphasizes short-term results.

[ ][Grants] Recorder Support [Current Level]

All research is coordinated based on five-year grant cycles.
Every five years, you dictate all grant expenditures for the next five years.
Major changes to our research base may result in requests for clarification.

[ ][Grants] Synthesis Support

You will select a synthesis-defined set of grant allocations each year. Note that this policy has a tendency to emphasize short-term results.

[ ][Grants] Full Support

Every five years, you will select a Synthesis-constructed research plan. Any necessary modifications will be done by Synthesis and the Recorders.

[ ][Grants] Full Delegation

You will never be presented with Decisions regarding research grants unless you specifically seek them out. Note that this is one of your primary responsibilities as Head of Warp Physics, so this level of delegation would reflect poorly on you.

Exploratory Infrastructure Director:
This is the Chair responsible for specifying what industrial projects the exploratory program should pursue.
(Your level of investment here determines the detail level and frequency of Industry Turns.)

[ ][Industry] No Support [Current Level]

You select an exact set of Industry Projects to pursue every year for every World and Orbital the Klaxes possess. This level of investment is likely to step on the toes of some Sponsors.

[ ][Industry] Recorder Support

You will set out an Industrial Plan every five years. Any necessary adjustments to this plan will be handled by Recorder aides. (Major changes to our technology base may result in requests for clarification.)

[ ][Industry] Full Support

Every five years, you will select a Synthesis-constructed industrial policy. Any necessary modifications will be done by Synthesis and the Recorders.

[ ][Industry] Full Delegation

You will never be presented with Decisions regarding Industry Projects unless you specifically seek them out.

Director of Anomalous Studies:

This is the Chair responsible for analysis of events and technologies beyond our current understanding.
(Your level of investment here determines the detail level and frequency of Research Project Turns.)

[ ][Anomalies] No Support

You will personally oversee the research of anomalous items and events. Status updates from the anomaly programs will be handled as yearly mission reports and/or Crisis Turns.

[ ][Anomalies] Recorder Support

Every five years, a catalogue of all recorded anomalies will be presented to you. You will use this to plan your investigations over the next five years.

[ ][Anomalies] Synthesis Support [Current Level]

Whenever an Anomaly requires action on your part, Synthesis will present you with recommended courses of action to choose between.

[LOWER LEVELS OF ENGAGEMENT UNAVAILABLE DUE TO MAD SCIENTIST TRAIT]

Interstellar Ambassador of the Klaxes Directorate:

This is the Chair responsible for diplomatic relations with alien polities.
(Your level of investment here determines the detail level and frequency of Diplomacy Turns.)

[ ][Diplomacy] No Support

Every year, you will select from a slate of Diplomacy actions to take regarding all alien polities we have contacted. You will personally negotiate all major trade deals, using Crisis Turns if necessary. Note that taking on this level of personal responsibility for the fate of the entire Klaxes Directorate is likely to make the other Directors feel you're overstepping your authority.

[ ][Diplomacy] Recorder Support

Every five years, you will detail a foreign policy strategy to take regarding each alien polity. While better than personally assuming all responsibility for this area, this is still outside your area of expertise.

[ ][Diplomacy] Synthesis Support

Every year, you will select from a set of yearly foreign policy goals suggested by Synthesis. Though less then you might want, this is likely the most diplomatic engagement you can get away with without causing concern in the other directors.

[ ][Diplomacy] Full Support

Every five years, you will select a Synthesis-constructed foreign policy stance for each alien polity.

[ ][Diplomacy] Full Delegation [Current Level]

You will never be presented with Decisions regarding Diplomacy unless you specifically seek them out.

Interstellar Missions Director
This Chair is responsible for the planning and execution of missions to alien star systems.
(Your level of investment here determines the detail level and frequency of Exploration Turns. Regardless of your level of investment, Crisis Turns may occur during exploration missions.)

[ ][Missions] No Support [Current Level]

Every year, you will be presented with a star map and required to plot the exact jump path for any exploratory mission you wish to undertake. Missions to explored star systems will reuse the previous mission's jump path if you do not otherwise specify. Crisis turns will frequently occur during missions.

[ ][Missions] Recorder Support

Every five years, you will select a set of exploratory targets. Mission plans reaching those targets will then be plotted and executed over the next five years, adapted to circumstances. Crisis turns will rarely occur during missions.

[ ][Missions] Synthesis Support

Every year, you will select from Synthesis-constructed sets of possible exploratory missions.

[ ][Missions] Full Support

Every five years, you will select a Synthesis-constructed mission schedule for the exploratory program. Crisis turns will rarely occur during missions.

[ ][Missions] Full Delegation

You will never be presented with Decisions regarding Exploratory Missions unless you specifically seek them out, and Crisis Turns will only occur if a mission goes so badly wrong that the consequences personally affect you. Note that this is one of your primary responsibilities as Head of Interstellar Exploration, so this level of delegation would reflect poorly on you.

Sky Survey Director

This Chair is responsible for the allotment of telescope time to interstellar observation.
(Your level of investment here determines the detail level and frequency of Survey Turns.)

[ ][Survey] No Support

Each year, you will be presented with a set of observation proposals to allocate telescope time to.

[ ][Survey] Recorder Support

You will schedule telescope time in five-year blocks rather than one-year blocks.

[ ][Survey] Synthesis Support (Current Level)

You will select a Synthesis-compiled telescope timetable each year.

[ ][Survey] Full Support

Every five years, you will select a Synthesis-proposed observation schedule.

[ ][Survey] Full Delegation

You will never be presented with Decisions regarding the Sky Survey unless you specifically seek them out. Note that this is one of your primary responsibilities as Head of Interstellar Exploration, so this level of delegation would reflect poorly on you.

Reverse-Engineering Program Director

This chair is responsible for the adaptation of alien technologies for use by the Klaxes.
(Your level of investment here determines the detail level and frequency of Reversal Turns.)

[ ][Reversal] No Support

You will personally oversee the reverse-engineering of alien technologies.
Status updates from the reverse-engineering programs will be handled as yearly mission reports and/or Crisis Turns.

Though you'd love to bring your expertise to bear on Light technologies, you suspect Director Archakta wouldn't appreciate you being underfoot while he works.

[ ][Reversal] Recorder Support

Every five years, you will specify a general policy to take regarding reverse-engineering of alien technologies.

[ ][Reversal] Synthesis Support

Every year, you will choose from a set of synthesis-presented plans for prioritizing your research into alien technologies.

[ ][Reversal] Full Support

Every five years, you will choose a presented policy to take regarding reverse-engineering of alien technologies.

[ ][Reversal] Full Delegation (Current Level)

You will never be presented with Decisions regarding reverse-engineering unless you specifically seek them out.

Admiral of the Interstellar Fleet

This chair is responsible for the management of the Klaxes jumpship fleet.
(Your level of investment here determines the detail level and frequency of Jumpfleet Turns.)

[ ][Jumpfleet] No Support

You will personally oversee the design, commissioning, crewing, and assigned harbors of all jumpships on a yearly basis. Refits and shipbuilding will be done with module-level detail.

[ ][Jumpfleet] Recording Support

You will personally oversee the design, commissioning, crewing, and assigned harbors of all jumpships.
These allocations will only be changed every five years, but refits and shipbuilding will be done with module-level detail.

[ ][Jumpfleet] Synthesis Support

Every year, Synthesis will present management options for your jumpfleet, including proposed ship designs and crew complements.

[ ][Jumpfleet] Full Support

Every five years, Synthesis will present management options for your jumpfleet, including proposed ship designs and crew complements.

[ ][Jumpfleet] Full Delegation (Current Level)

You will never be presented with Decisions regarding the Jumpfleet unless you specifically seek them out.

Reporting Policy:
This is your directive regarding how frequently your aides and advisors should report to you.

[ ][Report] Maximum Detail

You want yearly reports containing all the information that you would have if you had made the decision yourself. You don't care if your subordinates resent all the necessary paperwork.

[ ][Report] Keep Me In The Loop

You want brief updates every year on everything that didn't need your personal attention, just to make sure everything is ticking over smoothly. If there's nothing to report, you want a report saying that there's nothing to report.

[ ][Report] Focus On Your Real Job

Paperwork mostly gets in the way. You only want updates from your subordinates when they make significant progress, encounter significant complications, or genuinely want your input.

[ ][Report] Only If You Need Me

You trust your people to know what they're doing. You only want to be bothered if there's a major concern that needs addressing.

[ ][Report] Fix Your Own Damn Mistakes

You'd prefer to only address those issues that your subordinates are genuinely incapable of handling on their own.
 
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