Their Light Will Be Ours [Stellaris]

We can select one extra technology from ANY field due to SCIENCE!!, and we can select one extra specifically Subspace Physics technology due to the research agreement with the Sparks. The Sparks will also get the extra subspace tech we research, and we'll get the extra subspace tech they researched- unless I'm misunderstanding that?

Yes, this is 100% correct.
 
Re: quantum computing. We get to force-discard one tech and draw a new one guaranteed to be a never-drawn tech. This should go to a tech we don't want, and ideally go to a field with few options to choose from and/or a lot of never-drawn techs.
Adhoc vote count started by Rockeye on Oct 23, 2018 at 12:07 AM, finished with 36 posts and 13 votes.
Adhoc vote count started by Rockeye on Oct 23, 2018 at 12:07 AM, finished with 18 posts and 9 votes.
 
[X]Orbital Shipyards

We need the shipyards to actually be able to build at a decent rate larger ships. And those are going to the combat and expansion ships we need. It also means we can probably start building more than one ship at once. Also very important.

If we already had orbital shipyards, I'd go for shuttles. As we don't, well... Shipyards first in my opinion.

Also, in my opinion our SCIENCE! Tech should probably have Hybrid Vigour as one of the 'finalists'for picking. We need to start investigating the hybrid tech branch before we go too far down the specialisation branch, and we're pretty far down it already. Otherwise we are likely to see it either locked off, or much harder/rarer.
 
In terms of long term strategy - do we want to focus all our energy on warp physics and get ahead there? Do we want to try to catch up to the Lights in robotics and industry (and void engineering), making up for their head start? Work on military projection? Work on theory stuff? Push even harder on our genetics advances, or logistics, sharpening the big advantage we do have?

Hell, I don't know. At any rate, here's my shortlist for SCIENCE!!

Subspace:
[ ] Subspace Equilibrium Theory
Increases the efficiency and integrity of subspace bubbles. Efficiency is nice, integrity - does this mean more stable, less accident-prone warps? Hmm. At any rate, it's also theoretically important.

[ ] Subspace Cartography
Mapping and gathering lots of subspace data to understand the dangers of the Warp - very important long term, and also beneficial in the medium term to warn us of dangerous subspace terrain.

[ ] Subspace Field Penumbras [possibly dangerous?]
Theory theory and more theory. The more we understand about the weird phlogiston world of warp, the better off we are in the FTL-era of the universe in the long run.


Computing:
[ ] Hierarchical Drone Algorithms [DANGEROUS]
GLOBALIZED ROBOT WONDERS!!! Like our soon-to-be-finished global logistics network, but better, probably!!! It also improves all the drone buildings. Then again, we already chose one definitely dangerous and a probably-dangerous and a maybe-dangerous tech. Might want to space it out a little. Plus, wonders sound expensive.

[ ] Warpslip Hardening
Minimized warp core + drone warp computer = small jumpship drones maybe? I like the idea of that. Could be militarily useful, though we can't let that distract us from longer-term theory advances TOO much.


Genetics:
So we could either double down on the move towards hyperspecialization that Form Based Education gave us - the specialization gives us some advantages and disadvantages - or try to balance back in the other direction and look at more individualized, specialized gene fixing. I'm not a fan of giving too much effort to hybrids and cutspawn, but that's just my personal opinion. A lot of you guys clearly think it's a good idea so it goes on the shortlist.

[ ] Hyperspecialization [possibly dangerous?]
--Double down on SPECIALIZATION and EUGENICS--

[ ] Non-Invasive Genefixes [possibly dangerous?]
[ ] Hybrid Vigor
--Adaptability Theory-- plus even faster changes to our genetics, for Non-Invasive Genefixes


Sociology & Political Science:
With only three options there's not a huge amount of extra stuff in here to pick from. We could push more on the military readiness, but there's lots and lots of other stuff to use SCIENCE!! on that might be more important.

[ ] Coordinated Voidborne Tactics
If we want to double down on military preparations. I don't think it's super necessary - we have one specifically military tech and a couple that will be handy for the military (quantum-safe encryption - cyberwar, minimized warp cores - more capable ships later) selected already. I'm mostly worried about losing access to this for a while if it decays on the next grant cycle.


Xenology:
None of these seem very urgent to me, though the Nova Codex would be interesting. Though it should be noted, we will be discarding everything we don't use and won't see it again for a while. At any rate, skipping.


Industry:
[ ] Metamaterial Theory
Theory is useful. More advanced materials studies like the stuff for the space elevator, or the precursor plastics, are a neat idea.

[ ] Second-Shells
Crabs wearing powered armor just sounds cool. It'll probably help our brave explorers survive longer, too!


Void Engineering:
Lots of good stuff here. The practical business of actually getting out into space.

[ ] Jump-Capable Shuttlecraft
Minimized drive cores + shuttlecraft can probably produce some very impressive little machines, on a sober budget. Two small ships might be less capable than one large ship but they're a lot more flexible.

[ ] Orbital Shipyards
Expanded shipbuilding capabilities are desired. Doing more with less sounds like the Klaxes way, but why not just build more? More ships, bigger ships, faster. If we want a true interstellar presence, we're going to need lots of ships, after all.

[ ] Microgravity Electrolysis [Dangerous]
Having a steady supply of orbital-produced fuel will be a critical step towards being a true interstellar civilization. (We're gonna need an asteroid miner soon, boys 'n girls.)

[ ] Voidborne Salvage Operations
Expanding our exploration ships' salvage capabilities could lead to more and better discoveries like our shiny precursor warp core. But there's so much else to research...

[ ] The Darkstar Array [Permanent, Unique]
BECAUSE SCIENCE THAT'S WHY
 
Last edited:
Unlocked Orbital Industry Project: Asteroid Mining Bay
A dedicated section of this orbital habitat allows it to process asteroids for useful ore. Though the required technology is still in its infancy, even this early refinery pays for the fuel expended in an asteroid's capture several times over.

Cost: 100 Raw Materials
Adds Asteroid Storage: 10,000
Adds Manufacturing: 50 Asteroid -> 10 Raw Materials

I'm not so certain how viable this is. The max asteroid we can capture is 150. That means producing just 30 Raw materials per trip. And that 30 Raw won't even be sufficient to create 10 fuel.
 
I'm not so certain how viable this is. The max asteroid we can capture is 150. That means producing just 30 Raw materials per trip. And that 30 Raw won't even be sufficient to create 10 fuel.
Whoops, there is a 2x missing on the capture harness. Fixed.
Adhoc vote count started by Evenstar on Oct 23, 2018 at 10:35 AM, finished with 32 posts and 11 votes.
 
Probably still not worth it untill we get the orbital refinery. Fuel is expensive, and transport capacity is limited.
 
[X] Orbital Shipyards
[X] K-Killer Spawnshield


Bigger ships and industry is great, along with a actual defensive tech against Light weaponry would be a great boon.

Can we get a estimate when we would acquire new propulsion and weapon systems from the Light technologies?
 
Last edited:
In terms of long term strategy - do we want to focus all our energy on warp physics and get ahead there? Do we want to try to catch up to the Lights in robotics and industry (and void engineering), making up for their head start? Work on military projection? Work on theory stuff? Push even harder on our genetics advances, or logistics, sharpening the big advantage we do have?

Broadly speaking we should:
-Maintain our lead on Warp Physics and Bioscience. Its our advantage for a good while. Being able to jump further and more accurately, especially with a Precursor jumpdrive to work with, is hellishly important, we'd be running a bluewater navy to their shallows.
-Keep at least one item on theoretical techs. Applied techs are competitively important, but you always want more theory to prepare for the next applied. More than that is excessive unless we're running out of good applied techs, unless its Rare stuff.
-We need to get our industrial techs to the point where we can actually build a fleet, not just super prototypes.

Genetics:
So we could either double down on the move towards hyperspecialization that Form Based Education gave us - the specialization gives us some advantages and disadvantages - or try to balance back in the other direction and look at more individualized, specialized gene fixing. I'm not a fan of giving too much effort to hybrids and cutspawn, but that's just my personal opinion. A lot of you guys clearly think it's a good idea so it goes on the shortlist.
The reason to push Hybrids is that later techs require multidisciplinary expertise, and hyperspecialization can cripple development, especially as we push theoretical physics.

[ ] Non-Invasive Genefixes [possibly dangerous?]
Totes dangerous. Non-Invasive Genefixes is another word for rapid deployment retrovirus

[ ] Coordinated Voidborne Tactics
If we want to double down on military preparations. I don't think it's super necessary - we have one specifically military tech and a couple that will be handy for the military (quantum-safe encryption - cyberwar, minimized warp cores - more capable ships later) selected already. I'm mostly worried about losing access to this for a while if it decays on the next grant cycle.
Main reason against this is that we don't HAVE anything in space worth coordinating. We got one capital ship explorer and...thats all folks.

[ ] Jump-Capable Shuttlecraft
Minimized drive cores + shuttlecraft can probably produce some very impressive little machines, on a sober budget. Two small ships might be less capable than one large ship but they're a lot more flexible.
You want crazy? Warpslip Hardening + Miniaturized Drive Cores + Jump Capable Shuttlecraft => Long distance raiders.
[ ] The Darkstar Array [Permanent, Unique]
BECAUSE SCIENCE THAT'S WHY
Actually the main benefit of exploiting singularity lensing for telescope work is that we can 'see' a ridiculously far distance with telescopes. Which is good for finding systems to scout without the time and expense of physically going there.
 
Totes dangerous. Non-Invasive Genefixes is another word for rapid deployment retrovirus

I still want to do it though.

You want crazy? Warpslip Hardening + Miniaturized Drive Cores + Jump Capable Shuttlecraft => Long distance raiders.

To be frank, I don't see the advantage.

Fuel consumption is equal for big and small ships. Given that that is our primary limitation in ship based operations, there's no real advantage in making ships smaller. Yeah, we'll be able to build more, but they'll just sit around without fuel.

Using crew allows and larger ships allows each unit of fuel to be used by a more capable ship.
 
Last edited:
I'm with ebbor on both these. Still want warpslip hardening, but it can wait till after equilibrium theory.
 
I honestly think our size of 150 is perfect for a ship. Sure, it can't be mass produced as a smaller ship, which would in theory mean we can explore more (until we would get limited by the fuel and cargo they can carry, efficiency can only get you so far), and it can't carry as many tools as a bigger ship, which should in theory be better at economical and military applications (more guns and harvesters), but it's a mix of both. We want to eventually get both of those, for specialized roles (scouts and colony ships), but I see no reason to rush it as it currently stands. And with time, we may acquire that technology from the Light factions.
 
3005 Research Grant Cycle: Final Grants & Deck Manipulation
Current tally seems like a landslide for Orbital Shipyards, and discussion's moved on to SCIENCE!! voting, so it looks like it's time I put up our final Research vote.

Already Locked In:
Minimized Warp Core
Quantum-Secure Encryption
Telomere Management
Interstellar War Doctrine
Cultural Analysis: Far-Flung Lights
Submersible Droneswarms
Orbital Shipyards

Select one option from each of the following categories:
Joint Warp Research Grant With The Sparks:

[ ][Sparks]Subspace Field Harmonics
[ ][Sparks]Warp Perturbation
[ ][Sparks]Instantaneous Translation
[ ][Sparks]Subspace Equilibrum Theory
[ ][Sparks]Subspace Cartography
[ ][Sparks]Subspace Field Penumbras

Academy for the Advancement of the SCIENCE!!s Grant:

[ ][SCIENCE]Terrestrial Agriculture
[ ][SCIENCE]Metamaterial Theory
[ ][SCIENCE]Ruggedized Robotics Platforms
[ ][SCIENCE]Second-Shells
[ ][SCIENCE]Independent Enterprise
[ ][SCIENCE]Coordinated Voidborne Tactics
[ ][SCIENCE]Xenoarchaeological Codex: Nova
[ ][SCIENCE]Xenopropaganda
[ ][SCIENCE]Diplomatic Miniclimates
[ ][SCIENCE]Hyperspecialization
[ ][SCIENCE]Radiation Hardening
[ ][SCIENCE]Hybrid Vigor
[ ][SCIENCE]Non-Invasive Genefixes
[ ][SCIENCE]Hierarchical Drone Algorithms
[ ][SCIENCE]Adversarial Examples
[ ][SCIENCE]X-Ray Interferometry
[ ][SCIENCE]Warpslip Hardening
[ ][SCIENCE]Subspace Field Harmonics
[ ][SCIENCE]Warp Perturbation
[ ][SCIENCE]Instantaneous Translation
[ ][SCIENCE]Subspace Equilibrum Theory
[ ][SCIENCE]Subspace Cartography
[ ][SCIENCE]Subspace Field Penumbras
[ ][SCIENCE]K-Killer Spawnshield
[ ][SCIENCE]Jump-Capable Shuttlecraft
[ ][SCIENCE]Voidborne Salvage Operations
[ ][SCIENCE]Fusion-Pumped Lasers
[ ][SCIENCE]Microgravity Electrolysis
[ ][SCIENCE]The Darkstar Array

Quantum Computing Discard:

[ ][Discard]Terrestrial Agriculture
[ ][Discard]Metamaterial Theory
[ ][Discard]Ruggedized Robotics Platforms
[ ][Discard]Second-Shells
[ ][Discard]Independent Enterprise
[ ][Discard]Coordinated Voidborne Tactics
[ ][Discard]Xenoarchaeological Codex: Nova
[ ][Discard]Xenopropaganda
[ ][Discard]Diplomatic Miniclimates
[ ][Discard]Hyperspecialization
[ ][Discard]Radiation Hardening
[ ][Discard]Hybrid Vigor
[ ][Discard]Non-Invasive Genefixes
[ ][Discard]Hierarchical Drone Algorithms
[ ][Discard]Adversarial Examples
[ ][Discard]X-Ray Interferometry
[ ][Discard]Warpslip Hardening
[ ][Discard]Subspace Field Harmonics
[ ][Discard]Warp Perturbation
[ ][Discard]Instantaneous Translation
[ ][Discard]Subspace Equilibrum Theory
[ ][Discard]Subspace Cartography
[ ][Discard]Subspace Field Penumbras
[ ][Discard]K-Killer Spawnshield
[ ][Discard]Jump-Capable Shuttlecraft
[ ][Discard]Voidborne Salvage Operations
[ ][Discard]Fusion-Pumped Lasers
[ ][Discard]Microgravity Electrolysis
[ ][Discard]None
 
The Asteroid Harness is giving me flashbacks to Homeworld and those glorious glorious capture ships. Why blow something up when you can borrow it, you know, forever.

Beyond that, we now technically have a weapon to put on our ships. In essence, we have an oversized sling, ready to throw nice big rocks at space goliath.

As cool as unlocking a wonder would be, we do not have anywhere close to the amount of materials needed to successfully pull it off. The Microgravity Electrolysis would be an extremely useful thing, but I don't see Ok, scratch that, M.E. actually gives us access to Orbital Silos, which means we'd be able to keep our fuel in space and not have to pay gravity the exit fee for every bit of fuel we send up. That's extremely useful, and who knows, more experiments on how fire works in 0G could be good for our SCIENCE!!! meme. Granted, such experiments would be "Can Reaction Mass create a false aurora if detonated in significant quantities?"

Fusion Pumped Lasers is also an interesting tech, since it will allow us to move away from the Giant-Techno-Sling and into some proper weaponry, which would be a good deterrent for a while. Not as useful as having a proper shipyard, so onto the back burner it goes.

So, time to do some approval voting.

[X]Microgravity Electrolysis
[X]Orbital Shipyards
Rocks are not free citizen.

First you must have a nearby debris field. Then you must survey the field for an appropriate rock. Then you must accelerate the rock in a controlled manner such that it's new trajectory can intercept the target. During acceleration pray that your survey did not miss faults in the asteroid, such that it breaks up during the acceleration. Then pray that it doesn't break up during transit. Then pray that the target does not maneuver out of the way of the ballistic projectile, which they most certainly will. Then pray that it does not break up on impact, scattering its kinetic energy over a much broader area, doing less damage.

It is more cost effective to have a dedicated warship carry dedicated munitions that will be smaller, denser, and easier to accelerate in a controlled manner.
 
Okay, so remember with Sparks we get accelerated progress, but no relative advantages.
So we should look at it in terms of what benefits them or us more.

[ ][Sparks]Subspace Field Harmonics

A prereq to larger ships. Benefit to the Sparks, who have better industry to make them, than us, who can barely squeeze a ship out.

[ ][Sparks]Warp Perturbation

FTL commmunications. Benefit neutral, we both can talk to people, but we both only have each other to talk to.
Strategically useful of course...if we had the ships to do anything with that.

[ ][Sparks]Instantaneous Translation

Nope. Not sharing Precursor OP techs with them.

[ ][Sparks]Subspace Equilibrum Theory

Theory based. Benefit neutral, since better drives are just that.

[ ][Sparks]Subspace Cartography

Able to chart out Subspace.
We're actually better off doing this alone, because we have the better explorers, and it'd determine landgrab approaches

[ ][Sparks]Subspace Field Penumbras

Pure theory. Benefit neutral.


[X][Sparks]Warp Perturbation
[X][SCIENCE]Hybrid Vigor
[X][Discard]Terrestrial Agriculture

So we share FTL comms, get the Hybrid Vigor implemented while its politically favorable(due to a successful Hybrid leader), and we don't really need land agriculture any time soon.
 
So thinking about Join Grant with sparks, and there are pros and cons to each pick. As it currently stands the only technological advantage we have over them in terms of Warp is the fact that we recovered a experimental engine from the Precursor ship. This has given us two new Unique techs so far, and since we share everything we pick during this turn, I'm not willing to offer Instantaneous Translation to them. It's of great tactical advantage in a war and in combination with their calculation and industry power, give them a perfect hit and run tactics. The other technologies are FTL communications, efficiency, sensors and a unknown. The Sparks already have better sensors then us, which may render this tech useless to them, and may spoil our relationship with them. Most useful tech for Sparks is probably efficiency since they have actual ships which can freely explore (we know that the Spark shuttle was only a bit more efficient then our own engine, so with last research they should be on par or our ship could be even greater, this is may be a major improvement of their range if we pick this). Which leaves the final option of FTL communications, something which we know they don't have, and which would be of great use to both of our polities along with opening several other options of diplomacy with the other Lights and unknown aliens in our system.

[X][Sparks]Warp Perturbation

Science option should be one which would in theory boost our efficency. I should probably explain what I see as our next 5 year Industry project. After we finish Global Logistics Processing Network next year, it would be wise to start up production of drones, which will cost us a year. Then we will need to develop further spacelift capacity to supply the second ship which will slowly exit production, and prepare for further upgrades to station. With Drones incoming consistently from 1-2 action costs which will remain after spacelift upgrades, Rugged Robotics will enable us to utilize them more after they are done at the end of a 5 year period.
And yes, before somebody asks, we have regressed to a 5 year period of planned economics. Somehow.

[X][SCIENCE]Ruggedized Robotics Platforms


For Discard, I just ran the tally, saw what nobody voted for, and picked that.
[X][Discard]Terrestrial Agriculture
 
Last edited:
... since we share everything we pick during this turn...

I don't think we share EVERYTHING we learn about warp physics this turn, just the bonus tech? @Evenstar?
Adhoc vote count started by Rockeye on Oct 23, 2018 at 11:46 AM, finished with 9 posts and 4 votes.

  • [X][Sparks]Warp Perturbation
    [X][SCIENCE]Hybrid Vigor
    [X][Discard]Terrestrial Agriculture
    [X][SCIENCE]Ruggedized Robotics Platforms
    [X][Discard]Independent Enterprise
 
Back
Top