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Zootopia
- Thread starter open_sketch
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No, he's the fox in this situation.
Wow, and the second weekend numbers report only a 33.4% drop, which is very small for a movie of this type. Looks like they have a real financial smash on their hands.
Only time can tell if it'll compete with Frozen, but it looks like it'll easily get into at least second place of the studio's digital films.
Only time can tell if it'll compete with Frozen, but it looks like it'll easily get into at least second place of the studio's digital films.
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Oh my god that was fucking amazing.
I loved every minute of it.
(I think I cried)
I loved every minute of it.
(I think I cried)
Hm... not according to my headcanon!
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I saw this on Saturday, absolutely fantastic, probably the best animated movie I've seen in the last couple of years, or possibly movie period. Also, the last time a piece of media engaged me on this emotional level was when I played through Undertale so make of that what you will. Instant recommendation. 11/10 will watch again.
Also I still can't believe the best examination of institutional prejudice and discrimination I've seen in years was a Disney movie about talking animals.
Also I still can't believe the best examination of institutional prejudice and discrimination I've seen in years was a Disney movie about talking animals.
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That scene where she confronts Wilder under the bridge? Most emotional scene I've witnessed in a movie. Bar none.
trob030490
Professor Kokonoe
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- she/her
Saw it again last night!
Did ZPD seem underequipped and underarmed to anyone in the Zootopia cartoon?
Judy as seen has a belt with pockets and radio, but her only equipment we see is the anti-fox pepper spray her father gave her and she provided herself. The only departmental equipment we see her use is her radio and cell phone. And handcuffs she pulls out of hammerspace to cuff a rabid Mr. Manchas with and restrain him. Maybe they fold up alot and are highly collapsible.
So besides her uniform, radio, and cuffs, she's only got hand to hand combat training, which focuses more on her kicking ability and speed.
Her uniform is also kevlar according to the art book.
That's all the department provided her, not even a taser or nightstick.
Concept art showed the ZPD SWAT units are named TUSK and have the tranquilizers and swords. The preview teaser trailer had Judy with a tranq pistol, called an elephant tranq but seemed designed to be used on a variety of species since she hits Nick with it.
Mayor Lionheart's private wolf security group used taser dart guns and net guns.
And the Breaking Bad parody sheep gangster had that air gun to deliver the chemical weapon bullets.
Defensively, ZPD has different armor for officers as well, one page mentions that while Judy the rabbit uses kevlar, bigger animals like the elephant, rhino and bear officers wear steel and titanium. I'd assume these are inserts because full plate armor would hinder movement and look less contemporary and more ancient, old technology.
The ZPD also seems to have a megafauna bias. At the end of the film, Nick and Judy are the smallest officers we see, of both predator and prey groupings. Before these two the smallest officer seems to have been the wolves.
Little Rodentia going by some initial concept art appears to have its own police force, to prevent 'Attack of the 50 Foot Rabbit' scenarios that happened in the film. Judy is a rather loose cannon cowboy (cowgirl?) cop in many ways considering her accidental collateral damage, though it wasn't at 'Lethal Weapon' levels.
Like a lot of people, I also liked the film. The world building and plot and characters were all solid. Action was good and cinematography was clear.
The message and themes were also good. Broadly applicable to many subjects in a general term.
Judy as seen has a belt with pockets and radio, but her only equipment we see is the anti-fox pepper spray her father gave her and she provided herself. The only departmental equipment we see her use is her radio and cell phone. And handcuffs she pulls out of hammerspace to cuff a rabid Mr. Manchas with and restrain him. Maybe they fold up alot and are highly collapsible.
So besides her uniform, radio, and cuffs, she's only got hand to hand combat training, which focuses more on her kicking ability and speed.
Her uniform is also kevlar according to the art book.
That's all the department provided her, not even a taser or nightstick.
Concept art showed the ZPD SWAT units are named TUSK and have the tranquilizers and swords. The preview teaser trailer had Judy with a tranq pistol, called an elephant tranq but seemed designed to be used on a variety of species since she hits Nick with it.
Mayor Lionheart's private wolf security group used taser dart guns and net guns.
And the Breaking Bad parody sheep gangster had that air gun to deliver the chemical weapon bullets.
Defensively, ZPD has different armor for officers as well, one page mentions that while Judy the rabbit uses kevlar, bigger animals like the elephant, rhino and bear officers wear steel and titanium. I'd assume these are inserts because full plate armor would hinder movement and look less contemporary and more ancient, old technology.
The ZPD also seems to have a megafauna bias. At the end of the film, Nick and Judy are the smallest officers we see, of both predator and prey groupings. Before these two the smallest officer seems to have been the wolves.
Little Rodentia going by some initial concept art appears to have its own police force, to prevent 'Attack of the 50 Foot Rabbit' scenarios that happened in the film. Judy is a rather loose cannon cowboy (cowgirl?) cop in many ways considering her accidental collateral damage, though it wasn't at 'Lethal Weapon' levels.
Like a lot of people, I also liked the film. The world building and plot and characters were all solid. Action was good and cinematography was clear.
The message and themes were also good. Broadly applicable to many subjects in a general term.
Nice, Trob!
One of my twitter followers commented they had an annoyance with fanartists doing humanization of Judy and Nick as the same race. Doesn't really matter what race they are, so long as they're different.
Judy, being on parking duty (also not in the system), probably wasn't equipped with takedown gear. I wouldn't say that's representative.
Different precincts for different sizes, perhaps. Judy specifically was assigned to precinct 1/the downtown one. So most likely, this is the biggest, baddest, most impressive precinct.
And, yea, some size bias. I'm betting on the whole, they like having their cops be a little bigger than many of the targets. Larger small-animals in Rodentia, probably, and such.
One of my twitter followers commented they had an annoyance with fanartists doing humanization of Judy and Nick as the same race. Doesn't really matter what race they are, so long as they're different.
Judy, being on parking duty (also not in the system), probably wasn't equipped with takedown gear. I wouldn't say that's representative.
Different precincts for different sizes, perhaps. Judy specifically was assigned to precinct 1/the downtown one. So most likely, this is the biggest, baddest, most impressive precinct.
And, yea, some size bias. I'm betting on the whole, they like having their cops be a little bigger than many of the targets. Larger small-animals in Rodentia, probably, and such.
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Is anyone else concerned that at the end of the movieboth our protagonists are mobbed up?
What worries me is that the reasonable authority figure shown in the movie is the local mob boss. The first witness went running to the mob instead of the police or the politicians for several good reasons. Mr. Big was also the only authority figure who wasn't blatantly biased (Chief Bogo,) corrupt (Mayor Lionheart,) or a full blown criminal mastermind (Assistant-then-Mayor Bellwether.)
Going by the movie, Zootopia is screwed - and that's without looking at the racial conflict from the movie.
On the bright side, the movie was great and it left plenty of plot hooks dangling for the inevitable sequel to have a chance of being more than a blatant money grab with no story, world-expansion, or plot significance.
Going by the movie, Zootopia is screwed - and that's without looking at the racial conflict from the movie.
On the bright side, the movie was great and it left plenty of plot hooks dangling for the inevitable sequel to have a chance of being more than a blatant money grab with no story, world-expansion, or plot significance.
Oh, it occurs to me- Tranqs are probably species or size category specific. So you may have several in a squad car, but you probably don't just walk around carrying generic 'tranqs.' And Judy seems like she'd travel light.
Wasn't the biggest reason because "he was a driver who worked directly for the mob"? The attack literally happened inside Mr. Big's car, after all.
And Mr. Big was going to kill Nick, and kill Judy for being with Nick. He didn't exactly come across to me as a reasonable guy til he found out what Judy did.
And Mr. Big was going to kill Nick, and kill Judy for being with Nick. He didn't exactly come across to me as a reasonable guy til he found out what Judy did.
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- Location
- Massholistan
I think Nicholai is talking about Mr. Otterton, not the Driver. But the same point still applies, I mean he was the personal florist to the largeST crime boss in the city. It seems reasonable that someone with those ties would go to his boss first. Plus considering he went to Yoga first it didn't seem like he was in all that much of a hurry either.
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Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
That was hardly institutional prejudice. It was entirely overt.I saw this on Saturday, absolutely fantastic, probably the best animated movie I've seen in the last couple of years, or possibly movie period. Also the last time a piece of media engaged me on this emotional level was when I played through Undertale so make of that what you will. Instant recommendation. 11/10 will watch again.
Also I still can't believe the best examination of institutional prejudice and discrimination I've seen in years was a Disney movie about talking animals.
Actually what I meant was "the least problematic, corrupt, or biased authority figure runs the local mob." I didn't say he was good, just the best option on the table.
Once Mr. Big found out they were investigating a problem in Mr. Big's "sphere of influence" he was quite helpful. He also aided them later when they brought Duke Weaselton in for "aggressive questioning." On top of that, Mr. Big probably knew that Duke nearly got his daughter, Fru Fru, killed. (Or nearly killed her. Depends on your interpretation of events.) What did Mr. Big do? He apparently held onto Duke instead of summarily "icing" him.
For a mob boss that's pretty reasonable.
(Note we have no idea what happened to Duke after the movie's resolution - I assume it was unpleasant.)
That said, again, it gives the film-makers a lot of dangling plot hooks to build a plotline for a sequel out of.
Once Mr. Big found out they were investigating a problem in Mr. Big's "sphere of influence" he was quite helpful. He also aided them later when they brought Duke Weaselton in for "aggressive questioning." On top of that, Mr. Big probably knew that Duke nearly got his daughter, Fru Fru, killed. (Or nearly killed her. Depends on your interpretation of events.) What did Mr. Big do? He apparently held onto Duke instead of summarily "icing" him.
For a mob boss that's pretty reasonable.
(Note we have no idea what happened to Duke after the movie's resolution - I assume it was unpleasant.)
That said, again, it gives the film-makers a lot of dangling plot hooks to build a plotline for a sequel out of.
I wonder how the public views Judy after the events of the film.
She was in public for two major cases, and in the first one the interview she gave likely didn't endear her to predators, but the mayor and chief mentions she became a rallying cry for other people. I can imagine in-universe reactions and theories about Judy.
And how much credit did Nick, the chief and other people get?
Talking about more in-universe characterization, some of the trailers show Chief Bogo being dismissive of Judy. I've seen some alternative interpretations of this.
The themes of the movie seem to lead the audience to believe Bogo is prejudiced against Judy, which is why he's so dismissive of her biggest she isn't a megafauna species and assigns her to a bad meter maid duty.
That could be a factor, or indeed the major factor in his actions, emotional displays, and decisions.
He could have given her meter maid duty due to it being a regular hazing procedure.
Another possibility could be more positive, he wanted her to learn the layout of the city, and this was the best way. Though if this was the case he could have tried explaining it to her. However, he is her superior officer, and might expect the new recruit to follow orders.
Another reason could have been, he didn't have any officers to assign her to since everyone is busy with the missing person's mammal's cases, so he didn't want to send a rookie on a dangerous assignment alone better they had worked their way up and gotten more field experience. Though if that's the case I feel he could have just assigned her to group and have her follow along.
In support of their interpretation, theory.
He only really becomes very angry once she takes initiative and chases a robber of a crime in progress she sees, which he deliberately calls out as insubordination. And then tries to get her fired once its clear she won't stand down and tries to take an active case. One reason for that is due to the amount of collateral damage during the chase. The other reasons might be that the thief was stealing what the chief thought was rotten food, a petty crime Judy caught for a lot of destruction. Not realizing how important that rotten looking material was for making the plot important chemical.
He does become supportive of her after she finds the missing mammals, comforting her when she thinks she's started a large amount of social unrest, reminding her that it isn't all her fault and there's lots of factors involved. Though that was also done in front of the Assistant Mayor who favors Judy, and before the chief only yelled at Judy when they were alone, calming down when the weasel's wife came in.
How did you all view the chief?
Race is one way to do it, as the film did show predators and prey had their own bias against each other and identified with very visible traits, but there could be other metaphors like gender thrown in too.
Zootopia's main dividing factor that was seen was species differences, beyond the predator prey focus of the film. In-universe there wasn't much discrimination, that the audience saw, of gender and other physical or mental traits. Despite that, I feel the commentary the film makes can still be applied to that concept.
The standing of predators in Zootopia society is interesting.
Judy herself even speaks down about predators during her interview, and doesn't seem to realize what she is doing is wrong even after Nick confronts her.
"Of course you're a good person Nick, you're different from them."
"Them?"
Nick also isn't exempt from this behavior, considering how dismissive he is of Judy.
On the other hand, the leader and various important figures in Zootopia are predators, despite the city being 90% prey. The police department has a very large amount of predators considering that fact that they're only 10% of the overall population.
She was in public for two major cases, and in the first one the interview she gave likely didn't endear her to predators, but the mayor and chief mentions she became a rallying cry for other people. I can imagine in-universe reactions and theories about Judy.
And how much credit did Nick, the chief and other people get?
Talking about more in-universe characterization, some of the trailers show Chief Bogo being dismissive of Judy. I've seen some alternative interpretations of this.
The themes of the movie seem to lead the audience to believe Bogo is prejudiced against Judy, which is why he's so dismissive of her biggest she isn't a megafauna species and assigns her to a bad meter maid duty.
That could be a factor, or indeed the major factor in his actions, emotional displays, and decisions.
He could have given her meter maid duty due to it being a regular hazing procedure.
Another possibility could be more positive, he wanted her to learn the layout of the city, and this was the best way. Though if this was the case he could have tried explaining it to her. However, he is her superior officer, and might expect the new recruit to follow orders.
Another reason could have been, he didn't have any officers to assign her to since everyone is busy with the missing person's mammal's cases, so he didn't want to send a rookie on a dangerous assignment alone better they had worked their way up and gotten more field experience. Though if that's the case I feel he could have just assigned her to group and have her follow along.
In support of their interpretation, theory.
He only really becomes very angry once she takes initiative and chases a robber of a crime in progress she sees, which he deliberately calls out as insubordination. And then tries to get her fired once its clear she won't stand down and tries to take an active case. One reason for that is due to the amount of collateral damage during the chase. The other reasons might be that the thief was stealing what the chief thought was rotten food, a petty crime Judy caught for a lot of destruction. Not realizing how important that rotten looking material was for making the plot important chemical.
He does become supportive of her after she finds the missing mammals, comforting her when she thinks she's started a large amount of social unrest, reminding her that it isn't all her fault and there's lots of factors involved. Though that was also done in front of the Assistant Mayor who favors Judy, and before the chief only yelled at Judy when they were alone, calming down when the weasel's wife came in.
How did you all view the chief?
imo while race is a may to represent it, I felt the message was about prejudice in general and discrimination, so their could be other metaphors gotten in.
Race is one way to do it, as the film did show predators and prey had their own bias against each other and identified with very visible traits, but there could be other metaphors like gender thrown in too.
Zootopia's main dividing factor that was seen was species differences, beyond the predator prey focus of the film. In-universe there wasn't much discrimination, that the audience saw, of gender and other physical or mental traits. Despite that, I feel the commentary the film makes can still be applied to that concept.
There was the general society mistreatment of predators in cases.
The standing of predators in Zootopia society is interesting.
Judy herself even speaks down about predators during her interview, and doesn't seem to realize what she is doing is wrong even after Nick confronts her.
"Of course you're a good person Nick, you're different from them."
"Them?"
Nick also isn't exempt from this behavior, considering how dismissive he is of Judy.
On the other hand, the leader and various important figures in Zootopia are predators, despite the city being 90% prey. The police department has a very large amount of predators considering that fact that they're only 10% of the overall population.
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That's one interpretation. The one I prefer is that police work can be quite hazardous in our world, and that's before you look at the size disparity in Zootopia. Hopps being so much smaller than the rest of the police force means she'll be at a significant disadvantage should she end up tangling with one of the larger animals of Zootopia.
Put it in perspective -
In our world an average man or woman, armed with the tools our law enforcement personnel are issued by default, can be expected to face down an average criminal without it being an insane risk. Contrast that with Officer Hopps who is roughly the size of Chief Bogo's arm. If you're being uncharitable, she's the size of his forearm.
All things being equal, an altercation between the two of them will always end badly for Officer Hopps.
Chief Bogo knows this. I don't mean he's thought this through - I mean he knows based on real life experience, anecdotal evidence, and personal bias. In his mind he classifies Officer Hopps as someone who will never be able to handle dangerous situations because of her size disadvantage. It also explains why Bogo is so angry when Officer Hopps assigns herself to the case. She's putting herself in harms way - and by extension she's putting all the police officers who will be trying to help her in harms way.
Why? Because Chief Bogo knows she's going to lose any fight she gets into with anything larger than her.
Putting her on meter maid duty was something she could do well - based on racial expectations of what bunnies are good at - while keeping her safe. From Chief Bogo's initial, biased viewpoint that's the best he can do for her.
Now contrast that with his stance on Officer Hopps once she proves that she is a fully capable officer. He treats her with respect and tries to keep her from resigning. She's challenged his worldview so he's not defaulting to generic bias in his mind - he's thinking instead of knowing. He's reassessed her and treats her just the same as he would any valued officer under his command.
Want proof? When the Mayor calls in that "Officer Hopps is down!" the Chief is one of the first police to arrive on the scene, just like he did when he got the emergency call that she and Wilde were being chased by a feral predator.
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
And at the end when be threatens Nick with parking duty, he pulls a bait and switch and throws both him and Judy at drag racers.
The discussion of Hopps connections above made me think of in-universe conspiracy theories.
I'm sure you've all heard of Judy Hopps. The hero that's been dominating our mass media cycle. Anyone find this a little suspicious? The media adoring this all new rookie? Yes, I know she broke two big cases but let's look at them.
Her first case she takes down the mayor! The mayor! And then she gets her buddy Bellwhether in charge. Some of the smarter people might say that it was to further her career and point to all the kickbacks Bellwhether gives the Hopps, but even though they come close, they don't see the real truth. They don't look deep enough.
They still think Bellwhether's the top of the food chain.
Look as soon as Bellwhether displeases her, bam! She gets knocked out too. What are the odds of that happening? Is it a coincidence that everyone that steps on her tail keeps knocked over?
I'm telling you, everyone's in that hare's pocket. All the crime bosses are talking about her. The chief won't stop talking about her. The talking heads on the news ain't stopping. Everyone's talking about her! It's so obvious people. She ain't some city employee just scamming taxes and glory. She's the boss! She controls it all!
WAKE UP SHEEPLE.
I'm slightly surprised that the force paired the two smallest officers together, even if they're good friends. I would've thought the chief would assign someone like the rhino squad to them as well.
I like this interpretation as well.
Though it bugged me that the Mayor called her Officer Hopps. Wasn't she not a cop at that time?
One emotional moment of the film that got me, was the hospital jumpscare. It's so obvious too and I still jumped when it happened. I take comfort that the 8 foot tall man next to me did too.
I'm sure you've all heard of Judy Hopps. The hero that's been dominating our mass media cycle. Anyone find this a little suspicious? The media adoring this all new rookie? Yes, I know she broke two big cases but let's look at them.
Her first case she takes down the mayor! The mayor! And then she gets her buddy Bellwhether in charge. Some of the smarter people might say that it was to further her career and point to all the kickbacks Bellwhether gives the Hopps, but even though they come close, they don't see the real truth. They don't look deep enough.
They still think Bellwhether's the top of the food chain.
Look as soon as Bellwhether displeases her, bam! She gets knocked out too. What are the odds of that happening? Is it a coincidence that everyone that steps on her tail keeps knocked over?
I'm telling you, everyone's in that hare's pocket. All the crime bosses are talking about her. The chief won't stop talking about her. The talking heads on the news ain't stopping. Everyone's talking about her! It's so obvious people. She ain't some city employee just scamming taxes and glory. She's the boss! She controls it all!
WAKE UP SHEEPLE.
That's actually not that bad of a job. It doesn't seem as high risk as the undercover work mentioned, but not as demeaning as meter maid duty.
I'm slightly surprised that the force paired the two smallest officers together, even if they're good friends. I would've thought the chief would assign someone like the rhino squad to them as well.
I like this interpretation as well.
Though it bugged me that the Mayor called her Officer Hopps. Wasn't she not a cop at that time?
One emotional moment of the film that got me, was the hospital jumpscare. It's so obvious too and I still jumped when it happened. I take comfort that the 8 foot tall man next to me did too.
An effect that scale can have on population: Bunnyburrow? Pop 81 million
Putting roughly similar size people together makes sense. Put Judy and a Rhino together, and the odds of them coming into a situation where they *have* to split up increases (and/or the number of times one is fairly useless in a situation), while Nick can follow most of the places Judy can.
Like, you don't see Francine with the wolves either. The partnerships tend to be different species, but not too far apart in scale.
I've seen fanart of Judy with a headscarf, which I think fits
Scale seemed the next biggest. Bogo got lots of respect in a way Bellweather did not.
Remember, she's playing Judy as the heroic officer killed by the savage predator. So to Bellweather, she's a hero.
Putting roughly similar size people together makes sense. Put Judy and a Rhino together, and the odds of them coming into a situation where they *have* to split up increases (and/or the number of times one is fairly useless in a situation), while Nick can follow most of the places Judy can.
Like, you don't see Francine with the wolves either. The partnerships tend to be different species, but not too far apart in scale.
I've seen fanart of Judy with a headscarf, which I think fits
Scale seemed the next biggest. Bogo got lots of respect in a way Bellweather did not.
Remember, she's playing Judy as the heroic officer killed by the savage predator. So to Bellweather, she's a hero.
At that time, he was probably the best option because they were conducting a highly unofficial, probably illegal investigation.
Mostly he only became reasonable, not when Judy revealed she was looking into Otterton, but only due to the 'save-the-daughter' thing.
Mostly he only became reasonable, not when Judy revealed she was looking into Otterton, but only due to the 'save-the-daughter' thing.
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TBH if you're making one Muslim I would pick Nick. It works with the parallels starting from the press conference noticeably better.I've seen fanart of Judy with a headscarf, which I think fits
Depends on region, for US/most western nations I would agree, but at least one person I saw doing it was Malaysian, and was specifically using Malaysian stereotypes. (Nick being Chinese in this case).
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Yeah, changes based on your target audience.
On the subject of guns, it wouldn't surprise me if the society never invented firearms. The producers talked about how the entire Homo Sapient race, and by extension the entire Ape-gene, does not exist in the Zootopia world. Certain branches of human thought, like the progression of weapon development and national borders, seem to be largely nonexistent.