And really, the whole thing with Manchas going nuts some time after being bitten by Otterton? That fits so perfectly with rabies that the canon explanation (him being hit by a dart that somehow neither Hopps nor Wilde heard whizzing through the air or noticed sticking out of his neck after it hit) almost felt like a retcon.
I don't entirely disagree, but I'd like to note that you're seeing a plothole here where there isn't one. There was no dart; it was a capsule that shattered on impact. So, the only debris would've been a few shards of glass in a room already partially shredded, which just leaves a small sound partly muffled by fur and for which Nick and Judy have no context even if they did hear it.
 
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I'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me?
I'm just wondering what kind of blueberries you have that look like darts.
I don't entirely disagree, but I'd like to note that you're seeing a plothole here where there isn't one. There was no dart; it was a capsule that shattered on impact. So, the only debris would've been a few shards of glass in a room already partially shredded, which just leaves a small sound partly muffled by fur and for which Nicke and Judy have got no context even if they did hear it.
Wouldn't be glass, would be a plastic of some sort, like a paintball. Given how a syringe punctured it. But it would be hard to hear for Judy and Nick, given they were on the other side of a door.
 
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Oh, huh. Don't know how I got it into my head that it was a syringe gun.

Regardless, I think rabies would have been better.


EDIT: oh, of course. Bellwether uses a dart gun to poison Nick during the climax. I got that mixed up with the pellet gun Doug was using.
 
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Wouldn't be glass, would be a plastic of some sort, like a paintball. Given how a syringe punctured it.
I wondered how the serum didn't leak out of what looked to me like a glass sphere with a small hole for fluid to be poured into. That does make more sense.

All that said, I kind of like Blake's rabies idea, but I also think it would be a fairly complex element to introduce in a film that was otherwise very tight. I suspect you could do it, but I'm not sure how.

Plus, honestly, I don't really agree with the statement that "having a lolevil villain behind everything took away from that." because my read of the situation was that those systemic prejudices clearly already existed, and Bellwether wasn't behind them so much as exploiting them. Which has a lot in common with how traditional power structures play divide and rule on marginalised groups.
 
Plus, honestly, I don't really agree with the statement that "having a lolevil villain behind everything took away from that." because my read of the situation was that those systemic prejudices clearly already existed, and Bellwether wasn't behind them so much as exploiting them. Which has a lot in common with how traditional power structures play divide and rule on marginalised groups.

I know. I just feel like 1) having the madness be a natural/accidental event would fit those themes a bit better, and 2) using rabies (a real life disease known to effect mammals) would have been a much cleverer use of the "city of mammals" premise than making up a fictional toxic plant.
 
The problem with a disease like rabies, is that it'd basically turn into what is effectively a zombie film.
How do you quarantine a city like Zootopia? How do you have doctors develop a treatment for a disease never before seen and who have no idea how it's transmitted (at first). And given it's long incubation time, if someone was infected, you wouldn't know until long after and given how no one knows anything about the disease, they have no way to test. Especially on a city-wide scale.
It would be too much to fit into a movie. At least without causing it to be bloated.

A chemical agent works because even if it eventually wore off, a short time-frame is all that's needed to change the balance of power. And that might be even worse because then predators could go savage and then come out of it, and you'd never know. They'd be like ticking time-bombs that can go off multiple times. Which would explain how the concept-Zootopia could've come into being and why the collars were able to be created.
 
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The problem with a disease like rabies, is that it'd basically turn into what is effectively a zombie film.
How do you quarantine a city like Zootopia? How do you have doctors develop a treatment for a disease never before seen and who have no idea how it's transmitted (at first). And given it's long incubation time, if someone was infected, you wouldn't know until long after and given how no one knows anything about the disease, they have no way to test. Especially on a city-wide scale.
It would be too much to fit into a movie. At least without causing it to be bloated.

A chemical agent works because even if it eventually wore off, a short time-frame is all that's needed to change the balance of power. And that might be even worse because then predators could go savage and then come out of it, and you'd never know. They'd be like ticking time-bombs that can go off multiple times. Which would explain how the concept-Zootopia could've come into being and why the collars were able to be created.

Obviously, the final third or so of the movie would have to be completely different, and the plot wouldn't have been wrapped up so neatly and happily at the end. Maybe that could have made for a worse movie overall, but handled correctly it could have also been better, at least to my taste.

Either way, the movie is still great as it is.
 
You also run into the issue that if this rabies is only effecting predators (or at least that them getting infected is way worse because they go mad and kill people) then you've got actual reason to do a Cuban styled quarantine. Which I don't think is the message that the film wants to spread.
 
You also run into the issue that if this rabies is only effecting predators (or at least that them getting infected is way worse because they go mad and kill people) then you've got actual reason to do a Cuban styled quarantine. Which I don't think is the message that the film wants to spread.

IRL, rabies ultimately has the same effect on herbivores. Its just less common among them, largely because a bloodlusted herbivore is going to kick or gore instead of biting, and so they're less likely to spread it.
 
IRL, rabies ultimately has the same effect on herbivores. Its just less common among them.
Yes, but if they're not the ones being affected or if them going crazy is far less deadly to the overall populace then you've made prejudice actually have reason behind it. A rabbit might give you a bit of a nip but a Tiger will rip your head off.

This is completely contrary to the whole damn point of the film. It's also kind of homophobic if you're comparing it to AIDS because a gay man with AIDS was no more threat to you than a straight man.
 
I know. I just feel like 1) having the madness be a natural/accidental event would fit those themes a bit better, and 2) using rabies (a real life disease known to effect mammals) would have been a much cleverer use of the "city of mammals" premise than making up a fictional toxic plant.
Ehhh, swings and roundabouts. For my part, I think the way the film didn't have a clear real-world analogue for its prejudices and the effects they had allowed the story to more clearly dissect mechanisms behind unconscious biases. In a like manner, I feel that having the madness be a natural/accidental event would take the story away from being entirely about people, and how we treat each other.
 
IRL, rabies ultimately has the same effect on herbivores. Its just less common among them, largely because a bloodlusted herbivore is going to kick or gore instead of biting, and so they're less likely to spread it.
Cool, and IRL, rabies doesn't have a cure. So that would be nice to have.
Only a two treatments that don't always work and usually leave nerve damage if they do. Fun times for the city ahead.
This is completely contrary to the whole damn point of the film. It's also kind of homophobic if you're comparing it to AIDS because a gay man with AIDS was no more threat to you than a straight man.
Beware the gay predators, they're gonna get you!
:rolleyes:
 
Yes, but if they're not the ones being affected or if them going crazy is far less deadly to the overall populace then you've made prejudice actually have reason behind it. A rabbit might give you a bit of a nip but a Tiger will rip your head off.

This is completely contrary to the whole damn point of the film. It's also kind of homophobic if you're comparing it to AIDS because a gay man with AIDS was no more threat to you than a straight man.

:rolleyes:

It wouldn't be a direct parallel with aids, any more than any of the animal species were with specific human ethnicities. I was just drawing a loose comparison.

A bloodlusted herbivore is also not necessarily less likely to kill you than a carnivore, just less likely to spread the infection.

Anyway, this isn't a hill I'm prepared to die on. Just a random thought about something I'd have personally liked better.
 
Also, in fairness, not all herbivores are little rabbits who will only 'give you a nip'.

Rabid hippos or a bloodlusted Chief Bogo? Yeah, that's a scary thought.
 
The idea of Zootopia's plot without a real villain being responsible for it all, but just normal mismanagement, corruption, and political opportunism would be a very interesting way of looking at things, especially when you look at how historical and modern racism in the United States actually operated. It's a decent idea, but perhaps not something that would have gotten across very well in a first movie. A sequel, I can well imagine.
 
Wouldn't be glass, would be a plastic of some sort, like a paintball. Given how a syringe punctured it. But it would be hard to hear for Judy and Nick, given they were on the other side of a door.
It was pretty much this thing, but altered to look "sciencey".

fictional toxic plant
especially when you look at how historical and modern racism in the United States actually operated.

Morning glory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Phencyclidine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(not completely serious)
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It's fairly obvious that he didn't bother to actually watch the film.
1: Judy's parents use Night Howlers to keep pests out of their carrots, they don't grow wild on the farm.
2: Judy recognizes exactly what it is, lists it's scientific name, and states that it's a "Class 2 Restricted Flora".
Chief Bogo is the one to think they are rotten onions.
3: Night Howlers cause mammals to go completely berserk until they get a unspecified treatment for the condition.
4: Otterton rambled about Night Howlers before he got dosed, not after.
5: Nick is denied service at the ice cream shop because he is a Fox, not because he is a Predator.
6: The Night Howler was administered with gel pellets, not darts.
7: Lionheart was not framed, and was not given back his position as Mayor.
 
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The idea of Zootopia's plot without a real villain being responsible for it all, but just normal mismanagement, corruption, and political opportunism would be a very interesting way of looking at things, especially when you look at how historical and modern racism in the United States actually operated. It's a decent idea, but perhaps not something that would have gotten across very well in a first movie. A sequel, I can well imagine.
I think you need to make the plot revolve around looking for a villain so you can undermine it with the reveal then.
 
I think you need to make the plot revolve around looking for a villain so you can undermine it with the reveal then.

Sure. A plot catalyzed by a string of missing person cases in a cop film does suggest a serial killer or the like.



Heh. I did briefly think of PCP when they heard about Otterton's episode, before Manchas turned.
 
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EDIT: oh, of course. Bellwether uses a dart gun to poison Nick during the climax. I got that mixed up with the pellet gun Doug was using.
Just saw this edit - nope, it's still a pellet gun. It is, in fact, the same pellet gun, which Bellwether retrieved from the case that was dropped during the chase. That's, you know, how Judy came up with the idea of replacing the serum pellet with blueberries, because she knew Bellwether would get her hands on the gun. Sorry Blake, this notion of darts really seems to have come out of nowhere.
 
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Just saw this edit - nope, it's still a pellet gun. It is, in fact, the same pellet gun, which Bellwether retrieved from the case that was dropped during the chase. That's, you know, how Judy came up with the idea of replacing the serum pellet with blueberries, because she knew Bellwether would get her hands on the gun. Sorry Blake, this notion of darts really seems to have come out of nowhere.

Weird. On the wiki it says it was a dart gun.

Hell, even the video Sydonai just shared says dart gun.
 
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Yeah, I think Fernandel is right that it'd work better as a sequel. Once Judy and Nick have had their experience of a villain behind seemingly random disappearances, that's a decent setup for subverting that expectation when something similar starts happening.
 
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