Point. We may need a dedicated Spoiler thread.
Zootopia
- Thread starter open_sketch
- Start date
- Movies
Though don't most movie threads morph into spoiler threads once the movie's been out for awhile?
Then the title need "[SPOILERS]" added onto it.
Just gonna pop in to drop this off.
Possible Blu-Ray goodies to be coming~
Blu-ray Forum - View Single Post - Zootopia 2D/3D (pre-order)
Possible Blu-Ray goodies to be coming~
Blu-ray Forum - View Single Post - Zootopia 2D/3D (pre-order)
TURBODERP
aptly named
- Location
- why would I tell you
BAH GAWD I NEED IT NOW
One big question I have is: Is there going to be a full commentary?
I always hate it when extras skip on that most simple but enlightening bit of extra.
trob030490
Professor Kokonoe
- Pronouns
- she/her
If there is a sequel that is legit instead of a Disney straight to DVD one they often do I'm gonna need ya'll to use that butch mohawk honey badger lady design.
This is not negotiable.
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Finally got around to seeing it. Pretty damn good film, laid it on a bit thicker than needed at parts but it is a Disney film so making sure the kids understand has me entirely forgive that. The one odd thing I noticed is that for a film that says "prejudice is bad" there was sure a lot of "everyone of this species is the same" being shown around. Like the Howl scene was hilarious, but transpose that to race and wee lad, that ain't good.
- Location
- UK
Eh. It's a film about discrimination in general. You could transpose it to race and get a prejudicial stereotype, but transpose it to, say, gender and you have actual physical differences (men don't have monthly PMS and women do, for instance) that result in different behaviour. Same with disabilities.
I wouldn't worry about it. Put it on a similar level to how Judy rapidly thumps her foot on the floor when angry, or twitches her nose in some other situations.
If you had the heroes distracting a group of female guards with free tampons I think we'd have an issue
Also, I have to note the irony of the Angry Birds trailer playing before this film, which looked like it could have been outright produced by the alt-right Trump supporters
- Location
- UK
I've seen the Angry Birds trailer. Can't say I noticed it being political.If you had the heroes distracting a group of female guards with free tampons I think we'd have an issue
Also, I have to note the irony of the Angry Birds trailer playing before this film, which looked like it could have been outright produced by the alt-right Trump supporters
"Let us welcome in these foreigners with open arms, ignoring the one bird who warns us against them. Oh noes, it turns out they were evil and after our womenfolk/eggs. Let us now proceed to bomb them from afar. Especially their leader with the not stereotypical at all beard."
Like, I don't think it was intended to mirror the real life situation; the game far predates the film after all. But goddamn it was timed poorly.
AnimalKrazed
Caw Caw!
- Location
- Above You
I'm just going to leave this fanart here.
Source: MarionetteJ2X on DeviantArt
I like this idea very much, how about you guys.
Source: MarionetteJ2X on DeviantArt
I like this idea very much, how about you guys.
- Location
- UK
But Nick, if you did that, you'd have to arrest yourself
Perhaps, but I doubt he would be that direct.
Hopps? She could be scary even taking any Yandere possibilities off the table.
- Location
- Challenge God? y/n
Before you wreck yourself.
I picture him not actually saying that, but saying it with a look ^^
Strunkriidiisk
THE LEGEND
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Subtle finger-across-the-throat motion and he can look like he's just innocently scratching an itch when Judy wheels on him.
- Location
- UK
... amusing and all, but if he murdered someone then he's already wrecked himself.
Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
Having just got back from seeing the film, it's interesting how well the beginning is coded to lull the viewer into sympathising with Judy's view as the marginalized outsider.
It's more than just the greater narrative, it's unspoken details like how Bunnyburrow station has room for all the different levels of the carriage to have their own exits, but the city station only has the one 'normal' sized exit. Also, things that just aren't said, like how Chief Bogo doesn't try to justify putting Judy on parking duty, despite the fact that viewed objectively it's a pretty sensible move. It gives the new recruit a safe position to explore the city and get a sense of the streets for their first day on the job - although Bogo is obviously being more than a bit of a jerk about it.
All of which means when the viewer runs into Nick, who is so obviously coded as the Loveable Rogue type, you see him from the view of an authority figure whose internal narrative is turning sour. For a startlingly long time I found it really easy to see him as an antagonistic figure, mentally approving of Judy's 'ingenuity' in abusing her authority to keep him on her leash.
When Judy first comes across Nick, he seems like a kind of narrative payoff for her hard work - you did your time ticketing cars, here's your chance to do A Good Deed, the kind of thing you came to the city to do. So when it turns out to be a scam, it poisons an otherwise good day, casting Nick as the catalyst for the string of events and realisations that try to trample Judy's dream. So when she realises he's her lead to finding Emmett, there's a certain sense of 'at last, delicious payback' to how she treats him…
But if the film had followed Nick up until that point, you'd have a tale of a guy living hand-to-mouth through ingenuity and harmless (mostly legal, even) hustles, until a police officer yanks him out of his life (and he clearly doesn't have a stable income*, so yeah, time is money) and entraps him via her authority with a vindictively gleeful ironic echo of how he… Uh, stiffed her some pocket change.
By himself, he's a Loveable Rogue type character just trying to get by and not really harming anybody. But Judy's narrative casts him as a petty crook, which justifies (to herself) yanking him around for the sake of her dream, her job, her priorities. It's a pretty slick piece of foreshadowing and setup for Judy's eventual realisation and triumph over her own prejudices. Her biases are on display from the outset, simply allowed to slip under the radar as much as real peoples are.
* The actual economics of Nick's situation are kind of nonsense, but he's clearly a drifter with shabby clothes (that shirt looked positively grimy when I first saw it) and treated like an outcast by society. He seems slick and confident, but then, never let them see they get to you. Was he homeless before the city turned on predators? I don't know, but it seems to fit.
It's more than just the greater narrative, it's unspoken details like how Bunnyburrow station has room for all the different levels of the carriage to have their own exits, but the city station only has the one 'normal' sized exit. Also, things that just aren't said, like how Chief Bogo doesn't try to justify putting Judy on parking duty, despite the fact that viewed objectively it's a pretty sensible move. It gives the new recruit a safe position to explore the city and get a sense of the streets for their first day on the job - although Bogo is obviously being more than a bit of a jerk about it.
All of which means when the viewer runs into Nick, who is so obviously coded as the Loveable Rogue type, you see him from the view of an authority figure whose internal narrative is turning sour. For a startlingly long time I found it really easy to see him as an antagonistic figure, mentally approving of Judy's 'ingenuity' in abusing her authority to keep him on her leash.
When Judy first comes across Nick, he seems like a kind of narrative payoff for her hard work - you did your time ticketing cars, here's your chance to do A Good Deed, the kind of thing you came to the city to do. So when it turns out to be a scam, it poisons an otherwise good day, casting Nick as the catalyst for the string of events and realisations that try to trample Judy's dream. So when she realises he's her lead to finding Emmett, there's a certain sense of 'at last, delicious payback' to how she treats him…
But if the film had followed Nick up until that point, you'd have a tale of a guy living hand-to-mouth through ingenuity and harmless (mostly legal, even) hustles, until a police officer yanks him out of his life (and he clearly doesn't have a stable income*, so yeah, time is money) and entraps him via her authority with a vindictively gleeful ironic echo of how he… Uh, stiffed her some pocket change.
By himself, he's a Loveable Rogue type character just trying to get by and not really harming anybody. But Judy's narrative casts him as a petty crook, which justifies (to herself) yanking him around for the sake of her dream, her job, her priorities. It's a pretty slick piece of foreshadowing and setup for Judy's eventual realisation and triumph over her own prejudices. Her biases are on display from the outset, simply allowed to slip under the radar as much as real peoples are.
* The actual economics of Nick's situation are kind of nonsense, but he's clearly a drifter with shabby clothes (that shirt looked positively grimy when I first saw it) and treated like an outcast by society. He seems slick and confident, but then, never let them see they get to you. Was he homeless before the city turned on predators? I don't know, but it seems to fit.
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- Patriarchova
I loved this movie.
There are a ton of movies - kids' movies and otherwise - that tackle prejudice, but this is one of the very few that gets intersectionality.
There is one thing they could have done better though, in my opinion.
There are a ton of movies - kids' movies and otherwise - that tackle prejudice, but this is one of the very few that gets intersectionality.
Carnivores are a stigmatized minority, with the lion mayor being in a precarious political situation because of his species. There's also a whole different stigma associated with size, so that Hopps - despite being a member of the herbivorous majority - also faces discrimination for being small. The cityfolk vs rural farmers classism wasn't even a fantasy counterpart culture thing, that was just true to real life. And then there's specific stereotypes attached to individual species, like foxes being seen as untrustworthy.
There is one thing they could have done better though, in my opinion.
The whole conspiracy with the sheep politician drugging predators. The movie overall seemed to be about systemic prejudice and unconscious biases, and having a lolevil villain behind everything took away from that.
I think it would have been better if, instead of a mind-altering poison, the madness was caused by Zootopia's first exposure to the rabies virus. Rabies is a previously unknown disease unlike anything their doctors have seen before. Much as AIDS was first associated with a persecuted minority (homosexuals) and sometimes used as a justification for further persecution before it spread to the majority as well, rabies could initially be seen as a "predator disease" that their savage ancestry makes them uniquely susceptible too, until the first herbivore cases start appearing. They could have still kept the mystery plot with the patients disappearing and the mayor covering it up, since rabies has a long incubation time before becoming symptomatic, so that kind of quarantine wouldn't be effective at preventing new cases. Likewise, you could still have a cynical herbivore politician using the situation to her advantage, she just wouldn't be as much of a pure villain.
And really, the whole thing with Manchas going nuts some time after being bitten by Otterton? That fits so perfectly with rabies that the canon explanation (him being hit by a dart that somehow neither Hopps nor Wilde heard whizzing through the air or noticed sticking out of his neck after it hit EDIT: forgot it was a pellet, not a dart. This particular detail isn't an issue) almost felt like a retcon.
I think it would have been better if, instead of a mind-altering poison, the madness was caused by Zootopia's first exposure to the rabies virus. Rabies is a previously unknown disease unlike anything their doctors have seen before. Much as AIDS was first associated with a persecuted minority (homosexuals) and sometimes used as a justification for further persecution before it spread to the majority as well, rabies could initially be seen as a "predator disease" that their savage ancestry makes them uniquely susceptible too, until the first herbivore cases start appearing. They could have still kept the mystery plot with the patients disappearing and the mayor covering it up, since rabies has a long incubation time before becoming symptomatic, so that kind of quarantine wouldn't be effective at preventing new cases. Likewise, you could still have a cynical herbivore politician using the situation to her advantage, she just wouldn't be as much of a pure villain.
And really, the whole thing with Manchas going nuts some time after being bitten by Otterton? That fits so perfectly with rabies that the canon explanation (
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- Patriarchova
I'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me?