So this isn't actually Yui, it's just a copy/paste of her mind with her soul still in the Eva?
Regarding soul and mind, I think I'll choose the same solution to "Culture explores 40k" in AO3: each time a mind is copied/revent/backup, another identical "soul" is created. If the old soul had perished, some of the "material" will be reused. How much that is still the same person is entirely up to personal interpretation.
For the Yui's soul in the Eva, without the mind, the soul just dissolved.
Of course, that may affect the ability to generate AT field, and if you remember which episode featured a rain in this timeframe, it might be bad :p.
 
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I'll have to check out that fic. I would've guessed (well, my first guess, never settle for just one) that a soul in 40K, from a Culture perspective, might be regarded as analogous to a realtime-mirrored mindstate maintained by the not!simulation that is the Immaterium?

Culture Mind: "So this particular universe comes with automatic RAID1 for mind-states as a standard feature? That's seriously cool."
Somebody then explains about Daemons and Necrons.
Culture Mind: "That's seriously un-cool. We're going to have to fix that."
 
I'll have to check out that fic. I would've guessed (well, my first guess, never settle for just one) that a soul in 40K, from a Culture perspective, might be regarded as analogous to a realtime-mirrored mindstate maintained by the not!simulation that is the Immaterium?

Culture Mind: "So this particular universe comes with automatic RAID1 for mind-states as a standard feature? That's seriously cool."
Somebody then explains about Daemons and Necrons.
Culture Mind: "That's seriously un-cool. We're going to have to fix that."
The author nerfed the Culture quite a bit, though (still stomp everybody else). So it may not for everybody.
 
Funny thing about that fic is that the Culture was nerfed in unbelievable ways, such as not getting their greedy paws into the prophecy business almost immediately (though it seems like something like it will happen now that things are in the end stages if it gets started again; because the Eldar Farseers see a opportunity to free Isha if they cooperate).
I guess it can be handwaved away as Chaos, Necron and the Eldar working furiously to cutoff all futures where it happened earlier.
 
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That author basically realized that he wasn't quite capable of writing Culture up to their normal standards, so he did his best and just gave them crazy fast research time and a few other tweaks; hence the nerf. Even still, a lot of us gave him a bit of flak at how badly they were able to predict the behavior of Orks...
 
Well, fair enough, the Culture was also bad at predicting the behavior of the Chelgrians. Something about them being a carnivorous race apparently threw off their statistics.
 
So this isn't actually Yui, it's just a copy/paste of her mind with her soul still in the Eva?

With NGE metaphysics, it would be something like the brain dumps they do of Rei periodically (Yui's soul can't be removed from the Eva via download). Probably the Mind could converse with simulated Yui (although just reading the downloaded data directly would be more efficient, I can see a quirky Culture Mind wanting to have a conversation), but simulYui wouldn't have any consciousness/perception/qualia.

The problem, of course, is that the Culture books have totally incompatible metaphysics with NGE. Thus, the writer is forced to come up with an amalgamation of a system where the soul, mind, and body are separate but somehow linked things on the one hand (hence why Rei doesn't get her memories back automatically when they put her soul into a new body - they have to download her memories separately) and a system where the soul and mind don't exist (and any mental stuff is an epiphenomenon of an 'intelligent' physical system and/or data thereon, whether that is a brain or a computer, and the copy-consciousness problem is ignored iirc) on the other hand. A tough problem, but with a combination of khazit's authorial wizardry and some willing suspension of disbelief on our part we can get where we want to go :3

Another problem you run into is whether an Eva will still be able to do Eva things with an AI in its brain and the person who was previously inhabiting the Eva removed. There are two levels of this - if Yui's soul has somehow been removed during the brain data dump, there's nothing to keep Shinji from getting tanged and his soul sucked into the Eva. Assuming this doesn't happen, the second question is whether the Eva can generate its Eva-sized AT field without a buffer soul in there (it's the Eva's AT field the pilot extends when piloting, not his own). In the long term, a dummy plug approach (constructing an "artificial soul" to stuff into the body, with the details of what this is and how it was done never explained, and even the extra-series Confidential Information unclear as to exactly what's going on) might get you around both of these issues and allow the AI that the Mind has put into the Eva's brain to do what it's supposed to do. You'd have to find a way to fabricate it, but I'm sure NERV's machinery that does this can be hacked - maybe there's a buffer overflow vulnerability in the firmware of the device or the PLC that controls it, maybe Aoba wanted to torrent shit overnight and set the wifi password to '#420blazeit', etc.

Of course, the other question is how was this all done from a test plug, given we don't know those are hooked up to the Evas? Though the semantics of test plugs are unclear enough in NGE that this can be handwaved pretty easily imo.

e: missed a bunch of replies above this, whoops!
 
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although just reading the downloaded data directly would be more efficient, I can see a quirky Culture Mind wanting to have a conversation
Now now now, we don't mention meatfucking in civilized conversation, do we :p ?
Well, I just assume the test plugs needed to be connected to the Eva to do their testing. The series was hazy enough in this regard that I feel I can declare handwavium in this.
 
So imagine her surprise that morning, not that anyone could have noticed the very subtle changes in her facial expression, even if that observer were incomprehensibly intelligent and hampered only by the lack of a baseline to compare to, when she saw a darkness alongside the Third Child.
Uh oh.

Then she notices Eva going dull and Shinji gaining another shade.

"... Please don't eat me, Shinji-kun."


Joke aside, this is BIG event for the mind.
 
Just for fun: estimation of the Mind's subjective age:
Look to Windward said:
~ Back in reality, about half a second. The avatar smiled. ~ Here, many lifetimes
We know that the twin Novae battle took place 803 years earlier, near the end of the Idiran War.
Said war lasted 48 years.
The Lasting Damage was created near the war, so let's ignore those few years.
Assume Banks converted the time to Earth standard for the convenient of the readers ( :p ), and conservative estimation of "many" equal 3, and assume a "lifetime" in the context of talking to a Chelgrian was around 100 years, and not the Culture 400.
We have (803+48)*24*365*3600*2*3*100 = 16,102,281,600,000
More than 16 trillion year old :p.
 
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Well, I like the solution of:

"This particular creature and type of creature makes use of a soul (some sort of metaphysical connection to something elsewhere) to behave in a sane and reasonable and conscious way, because doing so has (list of benefits). However, it is not innately required for a mechanical or biological creature to have a soul to behave in a sane and reasonable and conscious way, and a soulless copy of this creature could be modified in one of a number of ways to do perfectly fine without it, and behave and think similarly, it will just not have (list of benefits of a soul based design), and would instead have (list of benefits of a soulless design)."
 
And a few more maybe, like: if you make a copy, here are the circumstances that will spawn a new soul for the copy, and here are some alternate methods to prevent that, and here is a way to move it about to another location, and the problems in doing that, etc.

And I guess some of the benefits of a soul are a method of last resort for the continuation of self, and the problems are it is a single point of failure in the possible destruction of the self, as well as how it's existence, once you have it, adds complexity to the copying and when you get one, you can't have it destroyed and still be you, etc.
 
Expect new chapter next week. Also, would be the last chapter before June. (Exams are coming, and coming hard). Here's a teaser.
Imagination, it was often said, was one of the most basic indications of sentience.

In the broadest sense, imagination began when the first creature, with even the barest semblance of self-awareness, put its head, or limb, or torso or whichever body part that housed its equivalent of the brain, to use and tried to imagine, to draw a picture of anything - be it objects, actions, or a combination of the two – that it had never perceived with its sensory organs. For most humanoid races, said imagination often led to, or contributed greatly to, the development of art, science, religion, philosophy, and all their associated problems.

And like any great human artist, the Mind loved to imagine, too. Except it did that (like pretty much everything it did, if it was to be honest) much better.

Infinite Fun Space, its kind called it. The land of infinite fun! In some ways, the ultimate proof of the Minds' inhuman nature, despite all of their very human morals and quirks. Also, a reminder of how remote they were from their human peers, and how easy it was to lose themselves to the wonderfulness of their own intellect (which Would Be Irresponsible).

For the former Masaq Hub Mind, with all its excessive processing power, with little to no things to take care of, Infinite Fun World Building was pretty much the only thing it could do. Of course, being the responsible agent it was, the Mind had kept various simulations of the planets running: since it lacked a lot of relevant data, being constrained by the laughably crude, inaccurate, and insultingly simple senses of a meatbag, plus whatever data these Earthling had managed to figure out, the number of simulations grew exponentially, just to cover all the possible unknowns.

Still, it had a lot of processing room left over, and from a feeling that was best described as the Minds' equivalent of nostalgia, it had spent some time modeling its old home, accurate down to the atomic level, complete with everything in the original star system, plus a few relevant nearby celestial objects.

And so, in the Mind's mind, Masaq slowly spun in its circle around the star Lacelere, bereft of any intelligent soul, save for the Mind itself.

Well, the Mind, and currently, the human female it had fished out of the abomination.
 
What did you think of my suggestion there? With the nature of souls and such? And the pros and cons and possible technologies involving them and a sane way of looking at them when you are in a high tech society and they are still a thing?
 
1.6
Sorry for the delay, here's the last of the "introduction" arc. I promise that we'll see some action next time. :p
1.6
Imagination, it was often said, was one of the most basic indications of sentience.

In the broadest sense, imagination began when the first creature, with even the barest semblance of self-awareness, put its head, or limb, or torso or whichever body part that housed its equivalent of the brain, to use and tried to imagine, to draw a picture of anything - be it objects, actions, or a combination of the two – that it had never perceived with its sensory organs. For most humanoid races, said imagination often led to, or contributed greatly to, the development of art, science, religion, philosophy, and all their associated problems.

And like any great human artist, the Mind loved to imagine, too. Except it did that (like pretty much everything it did, if it was to be honest) much better.

Infinite Fun Space, its kind called it. The land of infinite fun! In some ways, the ultimate proof of the Minds' inhuman nature, despite all of their very human morals and quirks. Also, a reminder of how remote they were from their human peers, and how easy it was to lose themselves to the wonderfulness of their own intellect (which Would Be Irresponsible).

For the former Masaq Hub Mind, with all its excessive processing power, with little to no things to take care of, Infinite Fun World Building was pretty much the only thing it could do. Of course, being the responsible agent it was, the Mind had kept various simulations of the planets running: since it lacked a lot of relevant data, being constrained by the laughably crude, inaccurate, and insultingly simple senses of a meatbag, plus whatever data these Earthling had managed to figure out, the number of simulations grew exponentially, just to cover all the possible unknowns.

Still, it had a lot of processing room left over, and from a feeling that was best described as the Minds' equivalent of nostalgia, it had spent some time modeling its old home, accurate down to the atomic level, complete with everything in the original star system, plus a few relevant nearby celestial objects.

And so, in the Mind's mind, Masaq slowly spun in its circle around the star Lacelere, bereft of any intelligent soul, save for the Mind itself.

Well, the Mind, and currently, the human female it had fished out of the abomination.

She almost jumped when she turned to the direction the voice came from and found a strange silver creature just appeared out of nowhere. It looked eerily similar to a human, or at least a very good statue made out of silver, but, she noticed, many of the little details were simply off. It was very tall, nearly two meters in height, and there was something on its face, beside the oddly shaped nose, that made her feel uneasy.

She tried to remember where she was before waking up here, but all she got was a jumbled, chaotic mess of unrecognizable sounds and images. However, she could tell that a long time had passed.

And that the last thing she clearly remembered was the Contact experiment. So the mess, she realized, must be memories from the Eva.

Now here she was, wherever or whatever here was. Was this Instrumentality? Was this an illusion made by the Eva? A trick by the children of Adam? Something else entirely?

She noticed the silver thing was still smiling at her, and realized she had spaced out for a while. Before she could say anything, the thing said, in the same almost-too-perfect Japanese, with an unnaturally warm tone which put her instantly on edge - the same voice she'd heard earlier:

"Don't worry, you're safe here. I've just got you out of the computational substance of that purple robot-thing – I believe the technical term is 'Eva' – a bit ominous, if you ask me. I have to ask: How did you end up in there? That thing could barely support the human mind-state, and is certainly not even remotely compatible."

"Wait… What? What are you? Where is here?" she asked, and then looked around. The grasslands were still waving in the gentle wind. She tried to look far away, and could not see any sight of a containment unit: wherever here was, it did not seem to be affected by the Second Impact.

The humanoid spoke:

"I am an Artificial Intelligence – so to speak – called a Mind. Technically, we are in a special dimension of the real universe called Hyperspace, with you being a digital code stored inside my own substance. The visual you're seeing is a simulation of a habitat that I was very familiar with."

"You mean all of this is fake?" she asked. The silver being made a gesture that seemed to mean agreement.

Yui bent down, picked up a handful of grasses and dirt. It felt real in her hand. She squeezed it gently, and the dirt crumbled and the crushed grasses leaked the sweet scent of freshly cut lawn. Looking closely, Yui Ikari could pick out all the little details: the veins and roots of the grasses, the little crumbs of different materials of the dirt. All looked utterly, convincingly real. And yet, the word SIMULATION still hovered near the bottom of her vision.

If this thing was able to create a simulation this detailed, as well as its claim of housing the "digital code" of her mind, then it must have more processing power than any computer in existence – at least, in existence when she went through with the experiment. And she had no idea what "hyperspace" meant. Then again, she had no idea how many years had passed since the day she'd decided to go through with her plan.

She briefly entertained the thought that mankind had avoided the Third Impact, and had in time managed to achieve such scientific advancement, but quickly ruled that out. Third Impact was inevitable, inescapable; there was no stopping it. The fact that the thing in front of her was relatively inhuman only supported that theory. At least, she thought, her plan and not SEELE's seemed to have been successful. She only hoped that Shinji and Gendo had had the strength of will to return to their own selves. That, and enough people coming back for mankind to rebuild. And Fuyutsuki to come back, too.

What she didn't expect was that the memories from her time in the Eva, it seemed, were entirely incomprehensible.

This "Mind" thing speaking Japanese could be explained simply enough: if it could extract her soul from the Eva and put it inside a computer, it could read her mind, too.

God only knew how many years had passed. She wondered what had happened to the human race - was she the only human left alive? How far had she floated away in space, and for how long?

So she asked.

"Do you know about my home planet? What happened to the human race? Which year is this year?"

"Yes, I know about Earth. In fact, our realspace anchor is on Earth right now. The species homo sapiens, given the scientific name the locals give themselves, is puttering around nicely, though they've hit a few snags recently. And the year is 2015. I take it you were expecting to be floating in space for quite some time, and that I was an alien?" it chuckled. "Well, I am extraterrestrial, alright, but special circumstances have led me here. I also take it you were aware of being put inside that thing. Now, I can't help but being curious about that. Could you shed some light on the whole story?"

"You don't know?" Yui asked, while her mind was reeling: if this thing was saying the truth, not only had Third Impact not happened – it would be too early according to the Dead Sea Scroll, but an unexpected new variant had entered the picture; actual aliens, visiting Earth. There was no way mankind could have advanced enough to build a machine capable of such simulation in such a short timespan. Whoever these newcomers were, they had to have to the Eva in order to pull this stunt. It was even possible that they had already taken over the cyborg – the thought of the greatest weapon in existence falling out of the control of mankind filled her with dread.

"As fabulous as I am, there are still things I'm not aware of, Miss…?"

"Ikari. Yui Ikari. But if this is your simulation, you surely would be able to take that knowledge directly from my mind?" She narrowed her eyebrows.

The silver humanoid made a face, gave her the impression that she had insulted it somehow. "Oh, mind reading like that would be terribly fucking impolite, don't you think? Unless you want me to, of course."

"Who built you, and where are you from, anyway?"

"By a civilization much more advanced than your own, from a parallel universe."

"Parallel? Universe? What are your kinds doing here? What do you want from mankind? How did you gain access to the Eva?"

"Well, I assure you, my intention is genuinely benign. And no, I am alone here, I did not come with an invasion force." The thing paused. "Through an … unexplainable accident, I ended up equally unexplainably connected to an Earthling who happened to be the pilot of that cyborg. I have been helping him out since then." It widened its smile. "I've noticed that you share the same family name, and that, in the Eva, your mind-state specifically reject any one except him. Based on the age difference and your impression of your own appearance – what I used to construct your virtual body, and the way you just react, you're likely his mother. And based on the abnormal behaviors, mysterious background, and the unusual appearance that strangely resembles you of another pilot, I must guess that she is, in fact, the result of an imperfect attempt to clone you, likely to gain access to the abomination that are the Eva."

Clone? What the… Before she could finish that thought, the thing continued."Now, would you please tell me what had happened since the beginning? Why did you put yourself inside that thing? What is NERV's plan? Where did the Angels and the Evas come from?" The thing looked directly into her eyes.

"Wait, the pilot - you mean my son? Shinji?"

"That's the one. Shinji Ikari."

"And what do you mean 'connected'?"

"That is, I believe, we have an electronic connection to his brain. Who created that bridge, and how, I don't know. Through that connection, I can limitedly interact with the outside world. And that's also how I got you out of the Eva."

"Can you … control him?" she asked nervously.

"Well, not against his will. I can send electric signal through his neurons, but I can't stop him from sending his own. The result would be akin to a seizure." The robot, as Yui'd labeled it, broadened its smile, showing a row of silver teeth. "That would be terrible, though. So don't worry about it. I wouldn't do something like that."

She paused, pondered over what the Mind just said. On one hand, assuming what it'd said was true, who knew how much of the Scenario it had altered. And while it seemed sincere, she knew better than to trust a total mystery like that. On the other hand, it was not like she had a lot of options – as far as she could tell, in its simulation, this "Mind" thing must be pretty much god.

And truth be told, Yui was worried about her son, too. If SEELE found out about this machine, it wouldn't end well for Shinji. So, she decided, she would cooperate with it for the time being. She still believed that Third Impact was both inevitable and necessary for the development of mankind, but clearly the Dead Sea Scrolls were incorrect: nowhere in them were aliens (well, beside the Angels) mentioned, and if she could coax some scientific knowledge out of this thing, then maybe it would be even possible to break through the limit of humanity without having to go through Impact (hah, fat chance, she thought). So she took a breath, and told the silver avatar.

"How about this: you tell me what I want to know about what is happening in the outside world, and I'll tell you what all this bullshit is about."


~And… about done. We'll know who the poor wretch is soon enough. Don't you feel bored sitting in here for so long?

~Well, kind of. But I had to get used to it. How long until…

~Done. Oh, oh! Hey, Ikari, I think you would like to know, but … it could be a bit different than you would have thought. Just stay calm, there are reasons for everything, OK?


~Um… Sure, but what are you talking about? You talked to the soul in the Eva?

~Yes, we talked. Just try to stay calm, kid. Now I know for certain we're not safe here, so better keep this secret. There was a pause. Then, a new voice.

~Hello, Shinji.


It took him a good three second to recognize the voice. It had been too long. Then, poor kid almost fainted on the spot.
 
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Maybe I've just been hanging out in the wrong sections of the internet, but your Yui is a much nicer person than the fan interpretations I am used to.
 
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