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You Are Wrong About Skaven Morality, or, Stop Citing The Warhammer Wiki You %*$%'s

Telvos said:
I've posted it elsewhere, but might as well add it here:
My head cannon version of the Skaven:
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And I've posted my own head cannon before as well;
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Faith, Steel and Fanfiction! (Warhammer Fantasy) Fantasy

Okay then. starting out with head-canon on Skaven sexes and gender, just to get that issue out of the way, with a little rephrasing of canon imformation. TLDR they don't. A bit stream-of-thought, mostly just to have it written down somewhere, and almost certainly lacking some of the...
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The Laurent said:
E2: Historically almost all slave revolts and peasant revolts have failed. Using that to argue that actually the peasants didn't lack power or else they'd successfully revolt would be seen as pants-on-head stupid if said about human societies.
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Haiti was massively successful, and if the USA wasn't a hypocritical slaveholding hellhole at the time when they went to the USA for help, and if there hadn't been a giant earth quake that decimated the island's economy to this day... well, if whatifs were easy to predict Alt History wouldn't be such a major genre.
 
Tithed_Verse said:
Haiti was massively successful, and if the USA wasn't a hypocritical slaveholding hellhole at the time when they went to the USA for help, and if there hadn't been a giant earth quake that decimated the island's economy to this day... well, if whatifs were easy to predict Alt History wouldn't be such a major genre.
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This isn't wrong but it doesn't really contradict The Laurent's point. "Almost all" does not mean all of them. On average Haiti was unfortunately very much not the norm in terms of success.
 
So, like, anyone else notice the parallel between the 13 clans of skaven and the 12 tribes of Israel? Just me?
 
Tithed_Verse said:
So, like, anyone else notice the parallel between the 13 clans of skaven and the 12 tribes of Israel? Just me?
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Skaven don't have 13 clans.

They have a Council of 13, which has twelve seats and a ceremonial 13th for the Horned Rat. Four of those seats are held by the four Great Clans, but there are countless lesser clans that aren't on that level.
 
Especially considering that the Skaven are also very clearly based on the Nazis in more than a few ways too. Like, I'm not going to claim GW are the undisputed masters of tact or anything, but I'd still think they'd have more than enough sense to not deliberately be comparing their Nazi analogue to Israel of all places.
 
Also comparing IRL groups to rats (or the negative rat stereotype faction) is generally not a good thing to do.
 
13th Bee said:
Also comparing IRL groups to rats (or the negative rat stereotype faction) is generally not a good thing to do.
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In all fairness to Tithed_Verse, my impression is that Verse was not personally comparing Jews to the skaven, or skaven to the Jews.

Verse appeared to be speculating* that Games Workshop had already done this thing.

So I don't think it's fair to Verse to condemn them for drawing negative comparisons when they are attempting to identify negative comparisons in someone else's work of fiction.

Otherwise you create perverse incentives to say things like "you know who would think of calling this work anti-Semitic? An anti-Semite!"
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*(Now, in this case, I think Tithed has insufficient evidence, for reasons others have pointed out already, to be clear)
 
Everytime I come back to this thread it's warcrimes or really good lore info. I love being a skaven main I understand nothing and just watch in my hidey hole.

Also on the whole underempire slave revolt I feel like no matter how many skaven on skaven there is the council will never be over turned. Few reasons I think so is one natural distrust in the higher echelons mean soviet style loyalty checks and two skaven slaves have no armor, gear, weapons or seemingly any power over the actual nukes and guns that some clans have. However as I said I'm a dumb skaven who lives under a rock in a dwarf hut.

Edited for a grammer line.
 
The council might get expanded or rearranged drastically though, that's happened a few times.
Plus we need to factor in how much of Skaven *history* is a black hole there have probably been breakaway factions that have lasted from decades to centuries. We just don't hear about them because such is embarrassing to the council.

I mean if those vampire pirate Skaven on the Skabbrus grew into their own small minor clan...mainstream skavendom sure as heck would not celebrate it.
 
Maybe rearranged but I for some reason have a pessimistic view on the newcomers being there for long. All the clans at the table would either want drastic change or just be power grabbers who lead a revolt so they weren't at the bottom anymore. I feel like it would be a split council at best with half being truly wanting reform and the other half just wanting to never go back to the warpstone mines and doing anything to not go back. However if a true revolt happend and the best circumstances where no horrid dictator esque skavens take power where to happen, I truly do believe skavendom would prosper for once. Also I wish the skaven zombie pirates where expanded upon, that sounds so so damn cool.
 
catsweeb said:
Also, I wish the Skaven zombie pirates were expanded upon, that sounds so so damn cool.
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Here is the existing context for those not currently aware:
warhammerfantasy.fandom.com

Skabrus

The Skabrus is perhaps the most obscene vessel to ever sail the seas, the reanimated hulk of an Orb Leviathan manned by a crew of Undead Skaven that serves in the Dreadfleet of the Vampire pirate Count Noctilus.[2a] An enormous cadaver the size of a Skaven underwarren, the sea-monster's insides...
warhammerfantasy.fandom.com warhammerfantasy.fandom.com
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Skretch

"Warp... must have warpstone, yes-yes... catch-catch it! Sniff it out... give it to Vampires, yes, but not all of it, not all... no-no, Skretch keep-keep some for himself... Must... feed..." —Skretch Half-Dead[2b] The Skaven rat-lord known as Skretch, Warlord of Clan Skurvy, was once a...
warhammerfantasy.fandom.com warhammerfantasy.fandom.com

To be fair CA brought Count Noctilus into Total Warhammer, so it could happen! I think a Naval Warhammer fantasy game got released some years back but did so badly upon release that only Orks, Bretonnia and Empire stuff got into it.
 
I'm saddened we may never see the "Skurvy Skaven" that makes me wanna cry a single tear. I hope someday some dev decides enough is enough and skaven get the new new new new new new new lords of Thanquol and Skretch. Why skaven doesn't have enough dlc's with unique mechanics after all.

Also the idea that this undead Skaven is sailing the sea's would be horrifying if you lived in universe. Like who would live near the coasts with that on the loose.
 
16 characters said:
So out of curiosity, what tier do you put things like Rhunrikki Strollar and Divided Loyalties then?
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In matters of personal taste? All three are excellent but if i had to rank em..

Drunken dynasty >= rhunrikki Strollar >> divided loyalities >>> the gotrek and felix saga >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything else games workshop has ever made
 
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Alex said:
If you want some irl pirate skaven models Punga Minatures produces a bunch of pirate "ratmen" that can be used in fantasy, aos or bloodbowl.
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You're a Saint, thanks a ton I really want to roll out a random pirate skaven army that makes no sense at all. I will run all jezzails with lil pirate hats glued on.
 
catsweeb said:
You're a Saint, thanks a ton I really want to roll out a random pirate skaven army that makes no sense at all. I will run all jezzails with lil pirate hats glued on.
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Maybe also some little shoulder rats with parrot feathers glued on?

More Generally does anyone know what's going on with Skaven and Warhammer The Old World? I heard they are not planning to include them at all but I don't know if that will last given how they could easily make up new clans and whatnot.
 
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