Snowfire
Polyglot of Chimera
- Location
- Wordcats
She's also still doing half damage to our marines, and we have three ships to keep her HCs away or counterboard if necessary.
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You Are: A sector admiral of a strained imperium.
- Thread starter Packrat
- Start date
- Original Sci-Fi
She's also still doing half damage to our marines, and we have three ships to keep her HCs away or counterboard if necessary.
- Location
- Somewhere in the stacks
- Pronouns
- She/Her
If we have to kill her the inquiry is just going to be the worst.
- Location
- United Kingdom
A faux pas true, but not one where you can say 'Hey, I had to destroy her because she wouldn't accept the surrender of a enemy ship'. Its not exactly a great defence, and although its a faux pas, it can be easily written off as her being eager to destroy the enemies of the imperium, even if she did it in bad taste.
And us proving her guilt is going to be hard to do considering we can't record this conversation, and our word means little as a commoner. I also suspect that as you said, she likely has contingency plans for us if we end up not working with her.
Snowfire
Polyglot of Chimera
- Location
- Wordcats
"She directly opened fire on our ship after we interceded to prevent her from dishonouring the fine name of the Imperial Navy by refusing the surrender of a defeated foe."
*appends sensor records*
I mean, yes, it'll be horrible, but I very much doubt that it will end with us losing much. Especially if we tell the Governor what we were actually being offered. I suspect he'd believe us, and if we don't start the shooting, I could see his own political influence coming down on things. Getting the House Imperial on side is very much in our long-term benefit.
Note: I have no intention of opening fire on her unless she fires on us. If I can get her to fire on us, however, then whatever comes of that is on her own head. Might even get us a HC or two out of the bargain
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- Location
- United States
We always have the "if you try and kill those people indiscriminately, not only will we never work for you, we will actively work against you and fight you right now." Card if we really want her to back off.
@Snowfire @Satar besides the hard negotiations we have to make it clear how our original plan and our own actions will lead to war. How what we"ll do will lead to a weakened NASP declaring war on the Imperium. Not as immediately, but it will happen. I already described all of the possible effects of the infrastructure bombardment and we discussed other ways we can provoke NASP, like turning the monitor into a mobile museum ship.
There aren't dozens of ships on a low end estimate but there are still enough to give NASP hell, including the three battleships that are currently over Imhotep.
Not become the ducal attack dog so we remain the attack dog of the empress and her family? Reinhard will be a pawn until he gets to the point he has enough power to stop being one.
She isn't lying. Packrat foreshadowed a ducal house that wants to overthrow the Imperial dynasty will try to hire us out. The next update we received word of the Ducal Scion arriving. She has no incentive to leave us out to dry and leave someone else to save our career in exchange for loyalty when she can protect us and secure our loyalty.
She is trying to buy us out. She is promising us a Share, more than one promotion in the Navy, political protection from Fleet Command and having our actions spun in the way that makes Reinhard a hero to the Imperium, in exchange for playing along and siding with her father.
This quest can be described as Packrat giving us unambiguously bad choices and choices that are good and bad.
Packrat had already answered this. Their infrastructure is good enough that infrastructure bombardment is going to be less bad than the bombardment in WW2. What we voted for before isn't a war crime by any definition and it would only happen for as long as they refused to pay tribute.
There aren't dozens of ships on a low end estimate but there are still enough to give NASP hell, including the three battleships that are currently over Imhotep.
Not become the ducal attack dog so we remain the attack dog of the empress and her family? Reinhard will be a pawn until he gets to the point he has enough power to stop being one.
She isn't lying. Packrat foreshadowed a ducal house that wants to overthrow the Imperial dynasty will try to hire us out. The next update we received word of the Ducal Scion arriving. She has no incentive to leave us out to dry and leave someone else to save our career in exchange for loyalty when she can protect us and secure our loyalty.
She is trying to buy us out. She is promising us a Share, more than one promotion in the Navy, political protection from Fleet Command and having our actions spun in the way that makes Reinhard a hero to the Imperium, in exchange for playing along and siding with her father.
This quest can be described as Packrat giving us unambiguously bad choices and choices that are good and bad.
Packrat had already answered this. Their infrastructure is good enough that infrastructure bombardment is going to be less bad than the bombardment in WW2. What we voted for before isn't a war crime by any definition and it would only happen for as long as they refused to pay tribute.
- Location
- United Kingdom
Just think of the paperwork!!
dragon
Ancalagon the Black
- Location
- The Skies of Arda
Hey, new player here. So, reading this quest, the mc has done some very shady things like turning a blind eye to smuggling for political gain, promoting officers that aren't fit for their positions for political gain, turning over technical not-pows for vivisection and torture for political gain, and planning to destroy the infrastructure of chuang ma likely to result in megadeaths and is only not genocide because most of the deaths will be caused indirectly. When it comes down to it, I don't think the mc will turn down a lucrative offer for political advancement on moral grounds.
I think the war, both with nasp and the civil war is just a matter of time, with the question being which one happens first. If we keep the peace with nasp tensions will keep increasing at home exacerbated by the additional burden of service to get out of debt bondage. Then nasp will strike whoever wins. We've seen nasp has expansionistic tendencies by their subversive actions on imhotep. When it come down to it, a war now with nasp, before internal tensions get worse is more likely to preserve the imperium's existence and set the stage for winning the civil afterwards. So, I think mc would go for it from that angle.
That leaves how trustworthy she is. She could certainly scapegoat the mc for the genocide, but that would deprive her of his services. The services of the greatist strategist in the imperium. Services she needs if she wants to come out on top. I wouldn't put it past her to use it as blackmail, but if she's telling the truth then imperium culture is willing to accept such actions and by the time she doesn't need our services, selling us out to another culture won't be an option because we've already won. I think scapegoating is only an issue if we lose.
I definitely see him going for it. We just need to make sure we transfer our loyal officers with us when we leave.
@Packrat I would like to congratulate you on writing a main character which I find morally reprehensible but still interesting and well written. Thank you for your efforts in writing this quest.
I think the war, both with nasp and the civil war is just a matter of time, with the question being which one happens first. If we keep the peace with nasp tensions will keep increasing at home exacerbated by the additional burden of service to get out of debt bondage. Then nasp will strike whoever wins. We've seen nasp has expansionistic tendencies by their subversive actions on imhotep. When it come down to it, a war now with nasp, before internal tensions get worse is more likely to preserve the imperium's existence and set the stage for winning the civil afterwards. So, I think mc would go for it from that angle.
That leaves how trustworthy she is. She could certainly scapegoat the mc for the genocide, but that would deprive her of his services. The services of the greatist strategist in the imperium. Services she needs if she wants to come out on top. I wouldn't put it past her to use it as blackmail, but if she's telling the truth then imperium culture is willing to accept such actions and by the time she doesn't need our services, selling us out to another culture won't be an option because we've already won. I think scapegoating is only an issue if we lose.
I definitely see him going for it. We just need to make sure we transfer our loyal officers with us when we leave.
@Packrat I would like to congratulate you on writing a main character which I find morally reprehensible but still interesting and well written. Thank you for your efforts in writing this quest.
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avatar11792
Et Sic Incipit
- Location
- Planet Earth, North America
...I'd be ok with her offer of transferring a Share to us, spares our Wealth for other things. I'm also okay with joining her, as she seems to have access to more information on the larger strategic picture than we do. She also seems to be even remotely close to us in terms of talent and maybe intellect, if not ruthless; I kinda like her.
Granted, I suck at actual plan-making, so... *crosses fingers*
Granted, I suck at actual plan-making, so... *crosses fingers*
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It is quite simple, yes, due to how we came to have this conversation we're either walking out of here as enemies or allies. I think we stand a far, far better chance successfully working with her House by walking out of here as allies.
She's not going to just meekly accept our declining her offer here, regardless of whether she can do anything in the moment. Once she gets back to Imperial space, if we decline her offer after the humiliating way we intervened for the monitor, we're going to be facing worsened relations with Fleet Command, House Arril, and House Jamoor in preparation for either a hard sell or getting us killed.
She isn't that stupid or suicidal. She"ll back off and the third House that doesn't like us will be the strongest of the seven. If she dies Reinhard will still have made enemies of half the Ducal Houses. This goes back to cornering Reinhard as having to side with and hide under the protection of the Imperial dynasty.
@fasquardon I missed your post but when I believed infrastructure bombardment would lead to genocide, @Packrat said it won't because of their futuristic infrastructure and organization. Wartime stockpiles, personal emergency stockpiles, redundant infrastructure, war resistant infrastructure and localized infrastructure makes it harder to wipe out a large portion of the population by targeting infrastructure.
It won't. As a new player you missed out on the commentary Packrat provided on and the reasoning of the players by only reading the threadmarks. Much of what you said has already been covered in the last eleven pages.
Most of us don't have a problem with it on moral grounds. The dilemma is what we get out of it, the issue of being manipulated by House Arslan and whether this will make it possible for us to eventually become Emperor or not.
dragon
Ancalagon the Black
- Location
- The Skies of Arda
I think advancement, to emperor or otherwise, is more likely under house arslan than the imperial house. To them, our services are more valuable. They intend to disrupt the staus quo in a manner that makes rapid advancement possible. The status quo doesn't favor us.
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Just as a note, I am finding that I get the writing kick more often than it is sensible to post updates, so here is a secondary quest in the same universe with a different focus:
Attending Fleet Academy - Original - Sci-Fi
I also deny all accusations that it will influence your ultimate arch nemesis here in this quest.
Attending Fleet Academy - Original - Sci-Fi
I also deny all accusations that it will influence your ultimate arch nemesis here in this quest.
- Location
- United Kingdom
[X] Accept her terms
It seems to me that we aren't getting out of this without making some enemies, either on our own side or on our enemies side. Let's just go for it, if we ever need to back off, then we can turn on her in the future.
I would ask people to strongly consider whether we could really win a fight against not just her, but her family and friends. This isn't a pleasant option, it pushes our plans a lot faster than we'd like, but it does mean we get some benefits out of this, including an alliance, title, money and the backing of a noble and powerful house.
It seems to me that we aren't getting out of this without making some enemies, either on our own side or on our enemies side. Let's just go for it, if we ever need to back off, then we can turn on her in the future.
I would ask people to strongly consider whether we could really win a fight against not just her, but her family and friends. This isn't a pleasant option, it pushes our plans a lot faster than we'd like, but it does mean we get some benefits out of this, including an alliance, title, money and the backing of a noble and powerful house.
That will be ameliorated by the purchasing of a Share and the successful actions we've taken.
How are we more likely to do it than in the Imperial Navy? The status quo is already being disrupted. A NASP war and civil war are going to happen and our character can't prevent that.
Why did you say that twice?
Now, lets be fair. The absolute best way to get Wealth would be as the admiral of a victorious ducal fleet over New Atlanta, firing the duke out of an airlock before sending your assault landers to seize and loot the Imperial Palace and its two thousand years of stockpiled treasure.
dragon
Ancalagon the Black
- Location
- The Skies of Arda
[X] Accept her terms
[X] No, We Are Still In Active Combat
We are also quite good at making loyal officers, and arslan has an interest in putting forces under us to take advantage of our skill.
[X] No, We Are Still In Active Combat
the imperial navy fears us and desires for us to stagnate. They won't put us in charge of anything more substantial until everything is on fire. Advancing under the imperial house means advancing despite their opposition, not because of their support. We are very likely to be kept in our position, which carries significant risk of dying during the opening stages of the war, as our forces are only meant as a tripwire.
We are also quite good at making loyal officers, and arslan has an interest in putting forces under us to take advantage of our skill.
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Dragon you missed out on too much information from not following the quest from the beginning. Your first two sentences are not true.
There are more posts to look for to support my argument if you're still not convinced. He has told us a good posting is guaranteed with a Share and PC over 100. If we have one or neither then we have to spend 50 PC to get it. We're not going to stay in our position after the 8 turns unless we decide we want to. We have done too much to be ignored by the players of the Imperium. You also seem to be under the impression that a civil war will happen because of House Arslan. It won't. The Empress has no clear heir and there are three more ducal houses we know nothing about. A civil war is likely to be a three way or more war. That the Imperium is better off having a war with NASP before a civil war is a point I've raised before, but it isn't that simple. A war will massively weaken the Imperial Navy fleet again and there is the question of when the Empress dies or when the war will start. The later it starts, depending on our actions, the better position the Imperial dynasty will be and the weaker NASP will be. The Imperial dynasty is going to take the most damage no matter when the war happens.
dragon
Ancalagon the Black
- Location
- The Skies of Arda
i'll grant that advancement under the imperial house isn't impossible.
I maintain that taking the offer to work with house arslan will lead to better, faster advancement because the imperial house wants to secure their current power and arslan wants to disrupt things which will open up positions that would otherwise be occupied. She also offers a better upfront concessions for switching allegiances and a change in posting without needing wait or pay for it. I think she's more eager to take advantage of our talents than the imperial house and that will lead to better and more frequent opportunities.
This makes me think that nasp is building up faster than the imperium, and that an early war leaves us less disadvantaged.Packrat said:
I don't think she's lying, I don't think mc has moral objections, and from a certain pov this is more likely to have positive result for the imperium than waiting for nasp to build up while internal tensions build. I don't really see beeing a pawn of arslan as a serious concern because we are currently a pawn of the imperium and if arslan wants to make best use of us then she has incentive to a powerful force under us that we can whip into shape and mold in our image.
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That's certainly true. It's rather unclear just what our exposure is if we decline her. I wouldn't be terribly surprised by anything from moderate inconvenience to utter ruin resulting from it, depending on how we decline it, what her backing for this mission is like, and how we handle things back in our sector.
Declaring firmly for the Imperial House but failing to actually get much support from them could see us targeted in an early move of the upcoming civil war.
kinda makes me wonder if the Ducal Houses are building any battleships in secret, though it's at most vaguely related to that.
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cokerpilot
Here comes the rain.
I am gonna wait to see what snowfire's vote says but I don't trust this lady one bit.
- Location
- canada
[x] refuse the offer stating we refuse to become her attack dog. Also tell her outright that we intend to take their capital ships ourselves so if she wants to start a war here she is welcome to try but we will be leaving that to her and we will shoot her down if she refuses to accept the ships surrender.
[x] No, We Are Still In Active Combat
[x] No, We Are Still In Active Combat
- Location
- NZ
Guys. Ask her for 3 shares immediately, telling her that since we are the greatest naval leader in the Empire that our price is very dear, and also mention that if war happens, business will struggle and there will be higher taxes and stuff so three shares will ensure Reinhardt actually benefits from it.
Or we could demand five shares. Drive an extremely tough bargain and we can make her believe that we aren't an enemy of hers we just have massive pride.
Or we could demand five shares. Drive an extremely tough bargain and we can make her believe that we aren't an enemy of hers we just have massive pride.
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
Asking for more shares up front isn't actually a terrible idea.
Although that might make us seem too greedy. Depends on what impression we want to give off.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
[x] refuse the offer stating we refuse to become her attack dog. Also tell her outright that we intend to take their capital ships ourselves so if she wants to start a war here she is welcome to try but we will be leaving that to her and we will shoot her down if she refuses to accept the ships surrender.
[x] No, We Are Still In Active Combat
[x] No, We Are Still In Active Combat