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Xander [Quest], Thread Fourteen: You Could Use the «Luck Bonus» Right About Now...

[X] Burgers are fine.

Don't take this the wrong way, Judge, but choosing a lunch menu doesn't strike me as significant enough for a decision point. I realize it's just a way to end a quick update, and really I appreciate the level of work you put into this quest, but it just feels forced.

On the Wish issue, similar effects do exist at the high levels of the Buffyverse and relevant crossovers, so I have no objection to Alex gaining such a spell at the highest levels of skill.
 
Mithril-blade said:
What's the scale of these "wishes"? Are they near omnipotent ones like a Triforce one?
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OOC: Fate-style wishes are the weakest. The Heaven's Feel ritual was designed by a small group of mortal magi working with a second-rate magic system and no divine input (Zelretch doesn't count, no matter what he says), and as noted, it has one of the longest charge times and the possibility of a nascent evil god actively working to ensure that all wishes are realized in the worst way possible.

Buffyverse wishes are next. Yes, they tend to be powered by demons or demon lords, but such beings are not true gods, and while the wishes they grant have been shown to be capable of altering reality, even on a worldwide basis, they're remarkably easy to dispel - to the tune of "in case of second thoughts, break fragile item," where any other wish on this list is permanent short of further wishing to change the outcome. They're also power hogs: as noted, Vail needed a team of support mages to alter people's memories of Connor; and D'Hoffryn has been around for thousands of years, rules his own hell-dimension, and so probably has all kinds of power sources to fuel the activities of his girls.

Next up are the Dragonballs. It's true that they're limited by the power (and likely also by the knowledge) of their still-a-mortal creator, but Kami/Guardian of (Insert Planet Here) appears to be the most exalted and god-like title a non-Kai being can hold in the Dragonball setting, and great personal power and wisdom appear to be prerequisites. Plus they only need a year to recharge, and are pretty much indestructible as long as their creator/power source is alive.

Then we have the Triforce. It was crafted and empowered by a divine creator trinity, so even if it only holds a portion of each Goddess's essence, it should trump mortal capabilities by default. As noted, if you're able to gain the full thing, you can pretty much do whatever you want - and even if you just get one-third, you're still pretty incredible.

Pinning down where the prize for Mortal Kombat fits is tricky, because the games don't ever make it clear who or what is powering the gradual (re)unification of the realms when Shao Khan's side wins, or the reinforcement of the dimensional barriers when the good guys win. The Elder Gods are severely hands-off, the Kamidogu are broken and scattered, and the One Being is approximately as limited as the First Evil. If any of these primal divine entities were directly involved, I'd put the tournament prize on par with the complete Triforce despite the once-a-generation timetable, but that doesn't seem to be the case. At a guess, the tournament channels ambient energy drawn from all the realm(s) involved in the kurrent Kombat according to rules laid down by the Elder Gods (with the One Being sticking a few loopholes in), so that they wouldn't have to keep showing up in person.

Tentative Konclusion: The prize for winning Mortal Kombat trumps a wish on the Dragonballs due to PHENOMENAL KOSMIC POWER (AND UNDERSTANDING), but is in turn trumped by the Triforce. A fifty-year age-free extension to your lifespan is a pretty sweet deal (a bonus Epic Feat, in fact), but it falls short of Ganondorf's ability to defy death, and that with just one-third of the golden plot device. True, the Curse of Hatred is tangled up in that, but I suspect that if Ganondorf had died before he laid hands on the Triforce, the Curse would have moved on and chosen another incarnation - after all, Vaati predates Ganondorf.
 
Judge Mental said:
Next up are the Dragonballs. It's true that they're limited by the power (and likely also by the knowledge) of their still-a-mortal creator, but Kami/Guardian of (Insert Planet Here) appears to be the most exalted and god-like title a non-Kai being can hold in the Dragonball setting, and great personal power and wisdom appear to be prerequisites. Plus they only need a year to recharge, and are pretty much indestructible as long as their creator/power source is alive.
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If used to much they also release evil dragon monsters upon the land.
 
Judge Mental said:
Tentative Konclusion: The prize for winning Mortal Kombat trumps a wish on the Dragonballs due to PHENOMENAL KOSMIC POWER (AND UNDERSTANDING), but is in turn trumped by the Triforce. A fifty-year age-free extension to your lifespan is a pretty sweet deal (a bonus Epic Feat, in fact), but it falls short of Ganondorf's ability to defy death, and that with just one-third of the golden plot device. True, the Curse of Hatred is tangled up in that, but I suspect that if Ganondorf had died before he laid hands on the Triforce, the Curse would have moved on and chosen another incarnation - after all, Vaati predates Ganondorf.
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So basically if our history/knowledge of the Triforce ever gets out we're going to have every power hungry group in the setting coming after us to get that sweet golden power.

Sounds fun :p.
 
Ridiculously Average Guy said:
If used to much they also release evil dragon monsters upon the land.
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OOC: That is perhaps the only aspect of GT that might conceivably show up in Xander [Quest].
Ghoohg said:
Where's the Lamp?
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OOC: In the Cave of Wonders, obviously.

But seriously, the ever-impressive, long-contained, often-imitated, but never duplicated Genie of the Lamp would fall between demonic wishes and the Dragonballs. He's very powerful and can grant wishes all day long, if enough people get their hands on the lamp, but he's also not a god, and there are some things he flat-out cannot do. Killing, bringing back the dead, and what I would term as "interfering with free will" being the big ones, though he's also somewhat limited in his ability to act without a direct command.

My admittedly flimsy grasp of the Islamic and older Arabian traditions from whence the concept of jinn originated, as well as the pre-Disney version of Aladdin, suggests that the Genie's powers are mostly summoning- and transmutation-based. He can fetch things from great distances, in great quantities, and at great speed, or create them from pre-existing sources, but other stuff (enchantment, necromancy) is explicitly beyond his purview. The fact that he was bound to the Lamp in the first place implies that he's not much good at abjuration, either, or else he would have dispelled, de-cursed, or disenchanted his way to freedom long ago - or at the very least, slapped a Magic Circle Against Evil Masters on that thing.
 
So about that new Zelda game coming out.

Hyrule Warriors. Cia. Yandere sorceror and defender of the triforce. This is what happens when you see Link countless lives and heroism.
 
[X] Burgers are fine.

I don't think we need to worry about Wish for a while yet.

After all to get Limited Wish right now we'd have to bump up either Magical Prowess two ranks to A or bring our sub skill average up to B.

Bumping up the relevant subskills in my condensed list would take:
C -> B = 13
D -> C = 8
E -> D = 6

Over all 27 pluses would bump us up to Subskill = C

Comparatively without the benefit of a teacher, which we don't actually have right now and have no idea about what will happen with Ambrose, bumping Magical Prowess to B rank would take four years while increasing our overall subskill rank would take:

four subskills receive ++ a year.
Year one:
1)Transformation E+++ -> D+
2)Conjuration E+++ -> D+
3)Elementalism E+++ -> D+
4)Illusion E+ -> E+++

Year Two:
1)Illusion E+++ -> D+
2)Summoning C++ -> B
3)Divination C+ -> C+++
4)Necromancy D -> D++

Year Three:
1)Divination C+++ -> B+-
2)Augmentation C -> C++
3)Enchantment D -> D++
4)Abjuration C -> C++

Year Four:
1)Enchantment D++ -> C
2)Abjurgation C++ -> B
3)Augmentation C++ -> B
4)Necromancy D++ -> C

So both paths take four years. However the impoverishment to Magical Prowess is the better option because not only does it effectively improve most/all our subskills at the same time it also increases the number of subskills we can simultaneously train form 4 to 5. Which would change the training schedule to:

Year one:
1)Transformation E+++ -> D+
2)Conjuration E+++ -> D+
3)Elementalism E+++ -> D+
4)Illusion E+ -> E+++
5)Summoning C++ -> B

Year Two:
1)Illusion E+++ -> D+
2)Augmentation C -> C++
3)Divination C+ -> C+++
4)Necromancy D -> D++
5)Abjuration C -> C++

Year Three:
1)Divination C+++ -> B+-
2)Enchantment D -> D++
3)Abjurgation C++ -> B
4)Augmentation C++ -> B
5)Necromancy D++ -> C

Year Four:
1)Enchantment D++ -> C
2)
3)
4)
5)

Which while not reducing the amount of time does leave four free slots open. Although given that it takes the same time it's probably still preferable to take another rank up in Magical Prowess instead. Especially since it's almost certainly easier and faster to rank up subskills in quests and training events then it is in training actions.

So to summarize in theory just plodding along as we are without a teacher or more quests we could increase our magical abilities to the point of casting Limited Wish by the time Alex is 16 which IIRC around Season 1 of Buffy which is like years away.
 
You're aware that if we invest in Mental Prowess, we'll quickly get more slots to work with, right?

It puts off the whole 'Be a super wizard at 12!' thing you're trying to pull, but it leaves us time to do other things. Shiny things. Like keep our edge up for the next world tournament.

C'mon, we all know we're going to go. Skill-ups are totally worth it, yo.
 
Judge Mental said:
OOC: That is perhaps the only aspect of GT that might conceivably show up in Xander [Quest].

OOC: In the Cave of Wonders, obviously.

But seriously, the ever-impressive, long-contained, often-imitated, but never duplicated Genie of the Lamp would fall between demonic wishes and the Dragonballs. He's very powerful and can grant wishes all day long, if enough people get their hands on the lamp, but he's also not a god, and there are some things he flat-out cannot do. Killing, bringing back the dead, and what I would term as "interfering with free will" being the big ones, though he's also somewhat limited in his ability to act without a direct command.

My admittedly flimsy grasp of the Islamic and older Arabian traditions from whence the concept of jinn originated, as well as the pre-Disney version of Aladdin, suggests that the Genie's powers are mostly summoning- and transmutation-based. He can fetch things from great distances, in great quantities, and at great speed, or create them from pre-existing sources, but other stuff (enchantment, necromancy) is explicitly beyond his purview. The fact that he was bound to the Lamp in the first place implies that he's not much good at abjuration, either, or else he would have dispelled, de-cursed, or disenchanted his way to freedom long ago - or at the very least, slapped a Magic Circle Against Evil Masters on that thing.
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Now I want to find the lamp, the Genie is an awesome dude.
 
Usernames said:
No one cares about Yandere Sorceror and defender of the triforce?
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She seems interesting, but I'm not sure if this is the place for that discussion.

Isn't there a Hyrule Soldier thread around somewhere? That'd be where to go with this, yeah.
 
The only things we should use yearly training slots for should be Prowesses and Priorities. Just look at Alex's fairy adventure-- we skilled up massively there. Or at the tournament. But we only raised Prowesses by a single + in all his adventures. In 4 years we can potentially hit high C's/B's in most magic sub skills just through adventuring, and in that time acquire B or even A-rank Magical Prowess.
 
Ridiculously Average Guy said:
I'm rather curious, how flexible is the familiar bond? Could somebody bind, say, a spirit and be subsumed by it if weak enough?
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OOC: It's possible, yes. It doesn't come up in D&D mechanics much, because players generally don't want their characters to be possessed, but the ghostly visage (Fiend Folio, also referenced in Heroes of Horror) is an undead spirit that inhabits the master's body and can force Ego conflicts to make the character do what the familiar wants, while certain minor fiends, if bound as familiars, are stated to be able to steal their "master's" soul for their own purposes when he dies. Given these precedents, it's not a stretch to imagine that spellcasters who aren't protected by PC shields can have other classically horrible things happen to them when they try to bind a creature that's beyond their skills and power.
Usernames said:
No one cares about Yandere Sorceror and defender of the triforce?
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OOC: Not so much a lack of care as it is a lack of knowledge on the subject and just being too tired to go look stuff up. And also the part where this is not the most suitable thread for the topic, which we are nearing the end of anyway.
 
@Judge Mental: Sorry if this has come up before, but how common are psychics in Alexverse? Could we find one by walking around and checking our mental shields or something?
 

Judge Mental said:
And now for something completely different: Universal spells haven't really come up in the [Quest] yet, but I'm thinking I'll average out Alex's skill in the various sub-ranks to determine which of them he can cast.
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Prestidigitation is a Universal spell.

Judge Mental said:
Tentative Konclusion: The prize for winning Mortal Kombat trumps a wish on the Dragonballs due to PHENOMENAL KOSMIC POWER (AND UNDERSTANDING), but is in turn trumped by the Triforce. A fifty-year age-free extension to your lifespan is a pretty sweet deal (a bonus Epic Feat, in fact)
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That epic feat is the absolute worst way to extend your lifespan, considering that there's a non-epic magic item that does it better, as well as a non-epic feat that makes you straight up immortal. Two sets of (evil) non-epic spells that can extend your lifespan indefinitely and a LA 0 template that also gives immortality. Not to mention the great number of immortality prestige class capstones and LA 0 immortal races. When you compare that feat with the rest of the epic feats it just seems more and more out of place. How did the designers ever think it was worth a epic feat?

[X] Burgers are fine.
 
Demonic Spoon said:
Prestidigitation is a Universal spell.
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Regardless isn't universal not actually a school of magic at all but a class of spells that can use any school of magic to be performed due to how basic and intrinsic to magic it is? In which case for things like permanency whether we can use it or not is entirely related to what is being done?

So permanency on divination spell like detect magic would use our divination sub-school to see if we have have the correct level.

That does give us issues when it comes to wish.. as it would require the GM to go through our skill list and make a judgement over what can and can't be done via our schools of magic.
 
Demonic Spoon said:
That epic feat is the absolute worst way to do extend your lifespan, considering that there's a non-epic magic item that does it better, as well as a non-epic feat that makes you straight up immortal. Not to mention the countless of immortality prestige class capstones ans LA 0 immortal races. When you compare that feat with the rest of the epic feats it just seems more and more out of place. How did the designers ever think it was worth a epic feat?
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True, In pathfinder a Wizard can trade his level 20 bonus feat for immortality as can an Alchemist.

Heck a Reincarnated Druid gets it at level 5!
 
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