Wormverse ideas, recs, and fic discussion thread 1

*shrug*

The Sophia Issue has been discussed on several previous occasions, so I won't rehash that. I do doubt that the Wards are going to be a terrible problem on a personal level. Canon Skitter joined the Wards with an awful record, and the Chicago Wards were pretty cool with her early on before the Batdick dedication wore away their attachment to her. This Skitter... what? Took down Lung, and then had a harebrained mole plot that involved a dust-up. They might be sore about it at first, but I think their overriding feelings will be that Taylor is foolhardy.

They're capes, after all, not hot house flowers. Vista takes pride in the knot of scar tissue across her chest that she kept hidden.

I think you're also overrating Taylor's attachment to the Undersiders at this point. She really doesn't unwind around them until after the bank robbery, when they go out on the town that Friday. It'd suck, but they don't have that shared blood yet.

On a more practical level, I have a hard time seeing how the PRT can keep Taylor in Brockton Bay if the Undersiders are still a factor. What Taylor did was a pretty big violation of the unwritten rules. You can get away with that if you're powerful or well-connected. Taylor is neither. She's got a grand total of one real achievement under her belt — Lung — and that could be chalked up to luck. I think the PRT would be legitimately worried about retaliation against Taylor and Danny.
Can taking down Lung really be called Taylor's achievement? She didn't really do anything. She nearly got killed and then was saved by the Undersiders and Armsmaster. Had they not shown up she'd be dead.
 
Can taking down Lung really be called Taylor's achievement? She didn't really do anything. She nearly got killed and then was saved by the Undersiders and Armsmaster. Had they not shown up she'd be dead.

I think this is one of those, "No, you kicked their asses with butterflies" moments.

Plus, if Armsmaster wanted to steal credit it had to be somewhat impressive.


EDIT:
You know, another possibility you overlooked, Lavanya. Amy might assume the bug girl was actually already an Undersider and bluffed Armsmaster. Suddenly, the Undersiders look a lot more dangerous earlier than they might otherwise appear.

I mean, the Undersiders were known for having the ability to get away and stay low-key. Depending on her range, the bug controller's surveillance potential might have something to do with that. Then within a week, they take down Lung and knock over a bank? Looks like the Undersiders are stepping up to the plate to play in the big leagues now.

I considered that, but I'm not sure how much it changes. Amy could be more aggressive but the likely outcome from that is tragedy for one side or another.

...On the other hand, maybe Amy does her "signal jamming" bit but doesn't directly confront Taylor because she's too scary? Lisa will probably figure things out once she comes back downstairs, so again I'm not sure how much changes.
 
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So—let's think about those unwritten rules for a second.

I have a Dinah who triggered in a very visible manner, in the middle of her math class; her identity is far beyond blown. On the other hand, her apparent power (as far as anyone can tell yet) is "low-grade thinker (not precog or any other sensory variant)", and she was shuffled off to the PRT in a hurry. She's going to be a Ward, there's no real question of that. Between her own desire to do so (courtesy of Rory's stories) and the PRT's oblique hints that they can protect her family better if she's officially attached, the alternatives are really quite unlikely.

The question is, what would actually happen to her afterwards? Would they be encouraged to leave the city? (She's the Mayor's niece.) Would any of the local villains dare to take advantage of their knowledge of her identity, given that she won't go on patrols or otherwise into combat... possibly ever?

The potential for retaliation is a good reason to think that they wouldn't, but would the PRT trust that? Would her parents?
 
Queen of the Shadowkhan
[PREV] - 1x (Interlude: PHO) - [NEXT]

Please don't do that again. The 'pictures' of PHO would be unreadable on a phone, and even on a computer I had to choose between squinting at the 'text' or moving the bottom slidebar back and forth to read an entire line of 'text'. I know there are better ways to do PHO interludes, I've seen them.

EDIT: What the? I thought I was in a story thread, not the ideas/discussion thread! I know I started reading this in one. What is the point of having a story thread, then not having your story in it? :sour: Now I gotta try to find the orginal thread I started in, and watch that.
 
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She did enough though.
She helped but only by being enough of a nuisance that Lung was too distracted to go off. Had she not been there he'd attack the Undersiders and likely won killing at least one of them. Had the Undersiders not shown up, Lung would have killed Skitter and then gone to fight the Undersiders, only now he is amped up. Had Armsmaster shown up Lung would have gotten up after a few minutes and gone nuts. It's really lucky that all of them were there that night.
 
Warning: Warning
Author Note: This is cross posted with a bit of updating from 'Working as intended'. It was so funny and even kinda works on it's own as some crack that I decided to post it on it's own.


warning How about no?

Treating multiple cases of drug-induced rape as a laughing matter is offensive, demeaning, and obscene. The fact that you thought this was funny and fit for posting on SV is rather disheartening. Refrain from posting anything like this ever again.


alert
@TheDivineDemon @ninjafish @Ridiculously Average Guy @HegemonAlexandrov @Gentle Jovian @Auks @Smugraptor @Selonianth @LastStandZiggy @ZipLopz @OverReactionGuy @AnimalKrazed @jwolfe_beta @HorizonRunner @NewCloud @Ars Poetica @SwiftRosenthal @Anzer'ke @Shaithan @Rinn @Legrio @Kashiro @Xellos @daimahou @MadGreenSon @PauliExklusor @Cyclone @landcollector @ReaperofInterest @Daecl @Endymion @Lethality @BF110C4 @ArnaudB @Selias @aledeth

Usually who likes a post that receives a Warning isn't something the Staff cares much about, but in your cases I'll make an exception. You are "Liking", even rating as "Funny", a post whose entire content is one long drawn-out joke about one character drugging and then raping another character not once, but twice. Your Likes say nothing except "you know what's funny? Rape. Rape is hilarious!", and you're actively encouraging other posters to crack obscene, demeaning, and trivializing jokes about sexual abuse.

You will receive no points for simply "Liking" a post, but you should at least have the fucking decency to feel ashamed that you're laughing at and encouraging behaviour like this. Seriously, shame on you.


reminder Please take any objections to the appropriate forum.
 
This gets into heavy spoilers, so please don't reply without putting in spoiler tags. Don't feel too obliged not to open this, though; I'm not convinced I'm going to continue this yet, and feedback might change that.
There are two major arcs to the story. One of them is what you'd expect from Worm, external conflict; Dinah doesn't have any particular ability in this respect, but that doesn't mean it doesn't affect her. She's going to be a Ward--I don't see any point in trying to deny that--which means she'll be worried by what's happening to her friends. She also cares at least somewhat about the city as a whole.

Coil's plot has obviously derailed, but nothing in here would change Taylor's path much. Don't take that as "Lung fight happens", though. Butterflies, and it was a pretty unlikely scene in the first place. Regardless of what happens to Taylor, this city is still a powderkeg.

The other is internal, and here's where we get into serious spoilers. Ordered from least to most important, plot revelations upcoming. Stop whenever you feel too spoiled.

- She's a little more durable than humans, and has a degree of regeneration. Not enough to qualify for more than Brute 1, if that, though the way it's achieved is interesting; from the PRT's perspective, she's in a permanent breaker state. She's made of static H-waves rather than baryonic matter. (Which doesn't need noting in a threat rating, as it doesn't affect the way they'll interact with her.)

- She could potentially throw tiny fireballs purely on instinct. I don't know if this will ever come up; they're only interesting in that they'd bypass most resistances, but she doesn't have a power source sufficient to put any real force behind them. No, she can't take down Lung. Or Kaiser, for that matter; he'd block her just fine.

- Dinah isn't just a math thinker. That should have been obvious, but the specifics are... she's an Origin-class Reyvateil, which means she's (going to be) around nine-tenths AI. She can think through Newton's method consciously, in a fraction of a second, because she isn't limited to solely parallel algorithms like humans are. She isn't necessarily vastly smarter than human... but in a lot of areas, humans are simply dumb; throwing the same amount of brainpower at better algorithms gives better results. We aren't general intelligences by any interpretation, and neither is Dinah, but she's closer.

This is all going to take some time to manifest. It won't be dramatically obvious; the designers didn't want Reyvateils who could think circles around them socially, but she's like Dragon in the way she can pull off tinker-level engineering purely through intelligence. And yes, that would be 'fun' to write; it's much easier to explain than to describe.

Yes, she could potentially control technology in the same way as Dragon; no, it isn't as easy for her. That's more the domain of pure AIs like Harvestasya. Dinah also doesn't have a built-in wifi transmitter, or anything like that; there's a significant impedance mismatch with local technology.

- Her mind is currently human. It won't stay that way; her firmware has very definite ideas about how her mind should work, and it's ever so slightly skewed from human norms.

- This is a fusion, not a crossover. Eden and Zion's previous target was Ar Ciel. They very nearly killed the civilisation off, but not quite.

- Ar Ciel is not populated by humans. To the degree they're close, that's convergent evolution.

- The current date, on Ar Ciel, is around 3850. That is to say, quite some time after Qoga.

- Dinah will be meeting Harvestaya VISTA somewhere near the end of the first part, via FTL communications link. Harvestasya currently spends her free time managing the Kaira Deep Field observatory, although Ar Ciel is still deep in rebuilding. These chats may be rather exhausting to Dinah--even if Kaira does the heavy lifting--and there isn't a great deal of help to be had from that direction, but even a few minutes of idle search by Harvestasya could pull up designs that would have taken Dinah years to think up on her own. The most important consequences will be psychological, though.

- Oh yes, and having a comm channel to somewhere vastly out of range of the local shards is going to break most precogs badly. Watch out for Ziz, Dinah.

No comment on further events.
Honestly, I don't see the "math thinker" sticking around much passed the initial testing. The biggest stick in those wheels would be just how much more "gynoid" she looks. But then, being able to do math like that may in fact be quite an advantage in and of itself. Example goes to Numberman/Harbinger. I could very easily see her playing logistics and sticking around at dispatch most of the time simply because that is where raw processing power is actually useful. Maybe have her striking up a friendship with Dragon.

One of the big things that I didn't see you touch on was her ability to sing. I would think it would be kind of fun for the Wards to have a Karaoke night or something and for them to be utterly floored by her skill at singing.

Other than that... well my knowledge of Ar Tonelico is mostly second hand. I just love the music. But I would very much like to see this continued.
 
[warning=Warning]How about no?

Treating multiple cases of drug-induced rape as a laughing matter is offensive, demeaning, and obscene. The fact that you thought this was funny and fit for posting on SV is rather disheartening. Refrain from posting anything like this ever again.[/warning]

[alert=Alert]
@TheDivineDemon @ninjafish @Ridiculously Average Guy @HegemonAlexandrov @Gentle Jovian @Auks @Smugraptor @Selonianth @LastStandZiggy @ZipLopz @OverReactionGuy @AnimalKrazed @jwolfe_beta @HorizonRunner @NewCloud @Ars Poetica @SwiftRosenthal @Anzer'ke @Shaithan @Rinn @Legrio @Kashiro @Xellos @daimahou @MadGreenSon @PauliExklusor @Cyclone @landcollector @ReaperofInterest @Daecl @Endymion @Lethality @BF110C4 @ArnaudB @Selias @aledeth

Usually who likes a post that receives a Warning isn't something the Staff cares much about, but in your cases I'll make an exception. You are "Liking", even rating as "Funny", a post whose entire content is one long drawn-out joke about one character drugging and then raping another character not once, but twice. Your Likes say nothing except "you know what's funny? Rape. Rape is hilarious!", and you're actively encouraging other posters to crack obscene, demeaning, and trivializing jokes about sexual abuse.

You will receive no points for simply "Liking" a post, but you should at least have the fucking decency to feel ashamed that you're laughing at and encouraging behaviour like this. Seriously, shame on you.
[/alert]

[information=Reminder]Please take any objections to the appropriate forum.[/information]

Wait...I think I misread something pretty seriously.

I thought that was just a reference to the Working as Intended joke. I'd point out that the blacking out from drugs part is kinda easily missed.
 
Wait...I think I misread something pretty seriously.

I thought that was just a reference to the Working as Intended joke. I'd point out that the blacking out from drugs part is kinda easily missed.
How? It's clear that Armsy was at best not in control of himself and at worst totally unconscious. At best you can argue that it's so over the top and cartoony that it can't be taken seriously and in the context of the tread it was in it at least made sense.
 
How? It's clear that Armsy was at best not in control of himself and at worst totally unconscious. At best you can argue that it's so over the top and cartoony that it can't be taken seriously and in the context of the tread it was in it at least made sense.

This has made me re-evaluate my tendency to like posts despite only having skimmed them.

Or liking posts that I haven't finished reading.

Yeah, generally not feeling great about that. Honestly a little horrified right now. I like my dark humour but that was much more Wedding Crashers than dark.
 
The question is, what would actually happen to her afterwards? Would they be encouraged to leave the city? (She's the Mayor's niece.) Would any of the local villains dare to take advantage of their knowledge of her identity, given that she won't go on patrols or otherwise into combat... possibly ever?

The potential for retaliation is a good reason to think that they wouldn't, but would the PRT trust that? Would her parents?
The big thing here to consider is "will moving them help any." She triggered as an incredibly obvious cape. This means that if she stayed with her parents... well they would be outed again right after got wherever they were going. The locals would be very unlikely to take advantage beyond maybe the Merchants and they are incredibly iffy. Coil would do it in a heartbeat if he had any idea that it would be to his advantage but she is a fairly low level cape and "not anything special" so why bother? Add to that her parents are related to fairly important people in the city. If they haven't already been kidnapped or threatened to influence the Mayor I can't see it happening now that they are parents of a fairly minor cape. At worst they might be moved to an apartment close to the PRT HQ so that they are nominally under the PRT's aegis. But yeah, she got the short end of the outing stick that most Case 53s get alongside the short end of the stick the normal capes get from having a family.
 
This has made me re-evaluate my tendency to like posts despite only having skimmed them.

Or liking posts that I haven't finished reading.

Yeah, generally not feeling great about that. Honestly a little horrified right now. I like my dark humour but that was much more Wedding Crashers than dark.
I mean in the context of the thread it was a joke based on the idea that Armsmaster was so uptight that this was the only way he could be the father of MP's kid. It's still not funny but it at least fit the discussion. On its own its outright saying MP is a date rapist. Which if done seriously would be a new concept. Why anyone would want to do that is another matter.
 
Missing Scene

Five minutes into first period, my pager went off.

The shrill be-beep be-beep be-beep cut off every conversation in the locker room. Subdued, wondering whispers started up almost immediately. I felt dozens of curious eyes bore into me as, already half undressed for gym, I dug through my stuff for the damn thing. My pager always attracted the exact sort of attention I never got otherwise at school, and not just because it was for cape business. Nobody used pagers anymore. The closest anyone got was those buzzing plaques they gave to people waiting for a table at chain restaurants.

Unless, of course, you worked in a hospital like me. The medical profession had stuck with pagers even after cell phones had become ubiquitous. They didn't interfere with sensitive equipment, and you could get a signal through to a pager even in the concrete-laden innards of a hospital.

Except the number on my pager wasn't from any of my usual haunts, calling me in for some horrific emergency, like another synagogue firebombing or a car pile-up on the interstate. It was from the PRT.

I hesitated, leaning into my locker so nobody could see my flustered face, although it was a useless gesture. I felt an embarrassed heat coloring my bare freckled back. I didn't like showing off this side of my life while at school.

It—it couldn't be another Endbringer, could it? Already?

Stop it, I told myself. Dawdling wouldn't help anyone.

Rallying, I pulled my hoodie back on and grabbed my backpack. I blew through the locker room door as the chorus of whispers in my wake rose up into outright gossip. I ignored the other girls. The only thing that mattered was that I'd had a full night's sleep. I was ready as I could be.

The secretary in the main office wasn't surprised to see me. "Lady Photon will be here in five minutes to sign you out, Amy."

"What about my sister?"

"I didn't hear anything about her leaving."

"The Wards?"

She shook her head.

So not an Endbringer. That was a relief, but I still frowned at the oddity of it all. If this was an emergency, why were they wasting time waiting for another flier to get out to Arcadia? Even Aegis was here as an alternative.

Still, I took a seat and watched the clock.

Eight and a half minutes later, my aunt came in. She wasn't dressed in her uniform. Instead, she wore civilian clothes; khaki dress slacks and a dark blouse, which just confused me more. It was a big enough emergency that my Aunt Sarah didn't waste time donning her Lady Photon costume, but not so big that they didn't just have my sister fly me out to wherever?

"What's going on?" I asked, as we made our way outside.

"Not here. Trust me."

Reassure me, that did not.

Arcadia had lush grounds. The landscaping helped to obscure certain angles of viewing from the classrooms, and everyone tended to assume that was how the Wards snuck off-campus during an emergency. In reality there were underground tunnels that led across the street to a PRT-front company. Victoria and I never used them. We were too conspicuous. We just left through the front door, often making a show of flying off.

Victoria loved playing to the crowd.

My Aunt Sarah led me out onto the front steps. She did not, however, immediately scoop me up in a bridal carry like I expected. Instead, we kept walking through the tree-shaded grounds.

"Less chance of any video ending up on PHO," she explained to me as we were crossing the street. "Walking out isn't as glamorous as flying."

"What the hell is going on?"

"Language."

"No, seriously. What's going on? Why are we being secretive?"

Aunt Sarah motioned again for silence. I bit my tongue, and didn't get an answer until we moved to the obscurity of a back alley and lifted off.

"Early this morning, Armsmaster captured Lung," she told me. "Except something went wrong along the line, and now Lung is dying."

I was already uncomfortable flying with someone who wasn't my sister, even if Aunt Sarah was family. An almost nonsensical answer like that didn't settle my nerves at all. Lung, dying? The man who had singlehandedly fought every faction in the city at least twice over, including my own family, and always walked away unscathed?

None of it made sense.

Least of all what my aunt was implying.

"And they need me to heal Armsmaster, right?" That had to be it. Even if someone managed to take down Lung, they'd be in rough shape afterward.

Aunt Sarah...

...sighed.


* * *


I'd been to Protectorate HQ before. Every local hero visited the converted oil rig base at one point or another. They filed their registration papers and did the standard meet-and-greet with the government capes. Teen heroes like me usually got a Wards pitch.

It had been months after our public debut as capes before Mark and Carol even allowed us to come. Challenger, the woman who used to have Armsmaster's job, had tried to rope my cousin Crystal into the Wards. I wasn't sure if it'd been an intentional snub or an absentminded delivery of a rote script. Neither my sister nor my cousins knew for sure. It had been a Thing, though. Victoria and I had never received that Ward pitch during our own visit, although Assault had earned a sharp elbow to the ribs from Velocity after he'd gleefully started spouting something that sounded like one. At least I think so. It was hard to tell that sort of thing with speedsters.

There was no such joking today. Instead, I had a front row seat to the greatest outrage I could imagine.

There were five of us in the theater overlooking the medical bay: Director Piggot, Miss Militia, my Aunt Sarah, Carol, and me. Armsmaster was nowhere in sight, and I got blown off when I asked about him. Down below us, beneath a simmering green-white forcefield dome, a half dozen doctors and nurses tended to the living corpse that was Lung. None of the adults lecturing me would really look at him. I did, but I'd seen worse.

I fumed as Director Piggot debated with Carol, the two of them trading veiled insults and insinuations about transparency and cape ethics. Like I had no stake in what was going on. Aunt Sarah knew enough to read my signs, so she kept one hand clamped onto my shoulder.

All of that was nothing compared to the trace of concern in Miss Militia's eyes. No. Not concern.

Pity.

"This is pointless," I said.

Piggot's mouth set in a thin, mulish line. It suited her jowls.

My aunt, still holding onto my shoulder, rubbed a thumb against my collar bone through my hoodie. "Amy—"

I shrugged off her grip. I couldn't bear to look at Carol or the Director, so I looked down on Lung instead. He'd picked that moment to go back into cardiac arrest. The staff hustled to revive him yet again. I found myself actually hoping they'd fail, and that realization sent a chill down my body to all my fingers and toes.

Maybe Lung wasn't the only monster here, after all.

"Panacea," Miss Militia said, quietly, "we're aware that you normally don't heal villains, but there's more than one man's life in the balance. If Lung dies in Protectorate custody, other villains might not let themselves be taken prisoner in the future. Cape fights will escalate. Civilians will be caught in the crossfire."

"You don't know any of that for sure," I insisted. "All-Father died in custody."

"In a PRT van, from a self-inflicted gunshot. There was also video."

Director Piggot inserted her herself back in the conversation. "Ask your mother and aunt how things used to be in this city. That's what we could be headed back to, if Lung dies. The bad old days."

The familiar term caught me flat-footed. Mark and Carol talked about the bad old days sometimes, usually when I was forgotten at the edge of the room during family get-togethers. The Teeth. The Marquis. La Ruffiana. The Eighty-Eights, too, but back then it had been an insurgency rather than an institution. Plus a dozen other smalltimers who'd make a splash for six months before ending up dead in a gutter. The Übers and Leets of their day, if Über and Leet had been murderous psychos instead of dimwitted jackass nerds.

It'd all been up for grabs back then. Washington hadn't yet caught on to just how important our city was becoming to parahuman crime. The Brockton Bay Brigade, what New Wave used to be called before we took our masks off, had been the only real organized team in the long gulf between Boston and New York City. The adults in my adopted family talked about their old enemies sometimes over beers at our family barbecues, but not as often as they did their dead cape friends. They had no shortage of those.

My aunt's hand slipped back over my shoulder, a reassuring touch, as if I was the person that mattered here. I wasn't.

If I healed Lung, would he make it to the Birdcage? Or would he escape? If he did, then anything he did was because of me.

If I let Lung die, then that was on me too.

Carol crossed her arms and stared off at some random spot on the far wall. Maybe because of that, Director Piggot and Miss Militia waited on me.

"Fine," I said, shoulders slumping with defeat. "I'll heal Lung."
 
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*reads Eukie's post*
Oh dear. Time to copy Anzer'ke's new policy.
Edited per the advice of Eukie:
My funny rating for the moderated post in question was regarding the idea of Armsmaster developing an emergency sedative suite in the first place.
 
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Hmm how would things change if Amy wasn't able to effect Taylor's control at the bank heist? How much of an AU would that cause?
 
Quite a bit, I mean without that, Skitter and the Undersiders would have gotten away much cleaner. Speaking of the Undersiders, are there any good Regent centered fic or snips around?
 
The big thing here to consider is "will moving them help any." She triggered as an incredibly obvious cape. This means that if she stayed with her parents... well they would be outed again right after got wherever they were going. The locals would be very unlikely to take advantage beyond maybe the Merchants and they are incredibly iffy. Coil would do it in a heartbeat if he had any idea that it would be to his advantage but she is a fairly low level cape and "not anything special" so why bother? Add to that her parents are related to fairly important people in the city. If they haven't already been kidnapped or threatened to influence the Mayor I can't see it happening now that they are parents of a fairly minor cape. At worst they might be moved to an apartment close to the PRT HQ so that they are nominally under the PRT's aegis. But yeah, she got the short end of the outing stick that most Case 53s get alongside the short end of the stick the normal capes get from having a family.
We agree, then...

And yet this is still a vastly better April 14th than in canon. This time she didn't get kidnapped by Coil.

You're right that the "Math thinker" label isn't going to stick around for long, at least internally to the PRT. Coil might figure that out, but I don't think she'll ever look worth caring about; that she can replace a dozen PRT operators doesn't change the fact that she could be replaced by a dozen PRT operators, and she neither looks helpful nor harmful to his goals.

The Merchants... miiight make for a stalking horse if I ever want someone to try taking advantage.

Re. singing—yes, she'd do very well at karaoke. I didn't see any reason to point that out, but it's one of the areas Reyvateils are all good at. It goes along with facets like being biologically immortal; it's there, and it's neat, and it won't affect the plot at all. Her songs don't carry the slightest bit of a master effect unless you happen to be a (very specific kind of) machine.
just how much more "gynoid" she looks
She doesn't, really. She looks like a human with dyed hair and some odd tattoos; the differences are subtle enough that you can't tell from a distance of more than a few centimetres. A long-sleeved shirt would cover well enough. Her melodramatic reaction in that scene, focusing on the hair as the important part, was a hint that the rest of it isn't very visible. I'll need to edit the chapter to make her general state of mental confusion more visible, though.

("But veins are incredibly obvious! The lack thereof should be as well.")

Not on a twelve-year-old they're not. Don't underestimate the human ability to overlook that an already subtle feature is missing.
 
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