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Wolf Spider (Worm) (Complete)

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Dareth said:
This is the most sympathetic Greg I've ever read. Great chapter. I wonder if he's going to trigger - seems like he could get a thinker or tinker power from this long-term stress.
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I was kinda thinking the chapter might be a buildup to that, but not, at least not yet. That's probably a complication we don't need though.
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Anyhow, bravo on a truly excellent Greg chapter!
 
Alright, time for me as the writer to come in with what's canon for this.

LGBTQ rights are better than they could have been!

By which I mean, even though it's 2011, Gay Marriage is legal throughout the states, and we've reached the vaunted heights of, "As forward-thinking as 2016-2017" five years early. Surely there are no improvements on this situation that can be made whatsoever.
 
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The Laurent said:
Alright, time for me as the writer to come in with what's canon for this.

LGBTQ rights are better than they could have been!

By which I mean, even though it's 2011, Gay Marriage is legal throughout the states, and we've reached the vaunted heights of, "As forward-thinking as 2016-2017" five years early. Surely there are no improvements on this situation that can be made whatsoever.
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At first I laughed. Then I became sad. :sad:
 
Ganurath said:
On the other hand, Taylor and Greg live in a city with the Empire 88. I hear that's a fantastic group to be an open homosexual around.
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Kaiser: How dare you suggest we discriminate against people based on something they have no control over, like their sexual orientation?
Kaiser: As long as you're not a filthy subhuman, you're welcome in the Empire!
 
There is a serious question, though. Like, would gangs let in a cape who was gay, if they were powerful? Because getting a heavy hitter on your side seems like it might matter more than your ideals, ultimately.

I can imagine Lung taking in someone and just never acknowledging anything odd about them, because what does Lung actually care? But Kaiser seems like he might genuinely care.

(And it's hard to tell how the Merchants would work. I think you'd get shit from the actual gang members, but if Skidmark likes you you can probably get away with a ton. And beating them up always helps.)
 
Dunno, was it canon or fanon that Kaiser secretly wasn't actually a supremacist and was just using the rhetoric for power? If canon, then he'd probably find a way if they're powerful enough.
The rest of the gangs likely wouldn't care (beyond the aformentioned shit-giving from the Merchants).
 
NemoMarx said:
There is a serious question, though. Like, would gangs let in a cape who was gay, if they were powerful? Because getting a heavy hitter on your side seems like it might matter more than your ideals, ultimately.

I can imagine Lung taking in someone and just never acknowledging anything odd about them, because what does Lung actually care? But Kaiser seems like he might genuinely care.

(And it's hard to tell how the Merchants would work. I think you'd get shit from the actual gang members, but if Skidmark likes you you can probably get away with a ton. And beating them up always helps.)
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Lung probably wouldn't need another cape. Sure he'd probably like one, but he has high standards for loyalty and they may not meet them (most capes apparently don't - he only kept Lee, and Bakuda was a Tinker which is a special case). In this case I've say it's 50/50.

Kaiser probably wouldn't accept a gay cape. He already has a ton of firepower, and anything sufficiently awesome to outweigh the ideological blow, increasingly bad work environment for all his capes, losses in manpower and be necessary to him us probably Triumvirate Tier. And would he want their attention here in Brockton Bay? Debatable...

With the merchants, yeah, anything goes. As long as you fit into the group in some way (getting smashed with them may help, and don't sound posh) do as Skidmark says and beat the hell out of the first few naysayers, you'll do fine!
 
Dantalion said:
Dunno, was it canon or fanon that Kaiser secretly wasn't actually a supremacist and was just using the rhetoric for power? If canon, then he'd probably find a way if they're powerful enough.
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Yeah, but even if we assume that he's motivated more by cynical opportunism than actual ideological malice, it would be extremely difficult to get the rest of E88 to accept gay members, so I doubt he would bother. Though Max himself may well be pragmatic enough that he would be willing to make use of someone who was gay as long they were willing to stay in the closet. I am very skeptical that you would get anyone openly gay in the E88 though.
 
spacemonkey37 said:
Yeah, but even if we assume that he's motivated more by cynical opportunism than actual ideological malice, it would be extremely difficult to get the rest of E88 to accept gay members, so I doubt he would bother. Though Max himself may well be pragmatic enough that he would be willing to make use of someone who was gay as long they were willing to stay in the closet. I am very skeptical that you would get anyone openly gay in the E88 though.
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Don't all the E88 know each other out of costume, and go to big public events at Medhall and stuff?

I think for other gangs it'd be easier to like, only meet the rank and file as a somewhat anonymous cape, so there's that going for them.
 
NemoMarx said:
Kaiser seems like he might genuinely care.
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Are we thinking the same Kaiser here?

Because IIRC, there were a few hints that Kaiser mostly took over the Empire not because he believed in their ideology, but because it was an organization he could use to gain power. That said, even if he doesn't believe in it himself, that doesn't mean he isn't still bound by the 'public opinion' of his followers, and he doesn't seem like the sort to risk his political capital with a move like that unless he stood to benefit considerably by it.
 
Vindictus said:
Are we thinking the same Kaiser here?

Because IIRC, there were a few hints that Kaiser mostly took over the Empire not because he believed in their ideology, but because it was an organization he could use to gain power. That said, even if he doesn't believe in it himself, that doesn't mean he isn't still bound by the 'public opinion' of his followers, and he doesn't seem like the sort to risk his political capital with a move like that unless he stood to benefit considerably by it.
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Plus, you know, that's how psychology works? If you pretend to be a racist for nigh on a decade, you're probably going to wind up something of a racist by default. :p
 
Vindictus said:
Because IIRC, there were a few hints that Kaiser mostly took over the Empire not because he believed in their ideology, but because it was an organization he could use to gain power. That said, even if he doesn't believe in it himself, that doesn't mean he isn't still bound by the 'public opinion' of his followers, and he doesn't seem like the sort to risk his political capital with a move like that unless he stood to benefit considerably by it.
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I'm not sure how much I'd trust him saying he doesn't care. Purity says about the same, but she still slips back into talking about genetic purity when she's stressed, and stuff.
 
My take on it is that Kaiser doesn't care if a given individual is a bigot so long as they fuck, fight, and die for his Empire.

Specific to Taylor in this fic, it's canon that Kaiser's feelings about gays compare to Bitch's feelings about dog fights, or at least that Grue made the comparison to contextualize the latter's issues for the former. So, if Kaiser found out that Arachne and Bitch were lovers...
 
Shadowcub said:
Plus he was going to make the teen stop seeing her lover.........or at least she thought he was.
In what version of human history has that ever turned out right?:lol:rofl:
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Probably the version known as our Earth, where parents go 'our teenage child is seeing a gang member, and if we make it sufficiently difficult, they will drop the relationship. Even if that requires us moving town.'

Yes, Danny didn't make the best choice - I personally would listen to Taylor before grounding her, because I always like to get as much information as I can before deciding anything (I would never trash a letter unopened) - but he didn't make the worst choice.
If Taylor didn't have superpowers, it is perfectly plausible they could have talked about the situation the following day when they both had clearer heads. Or the day after that. Or the day after that. Because keeping a person from someone is something that requires constant effort, so they would have had time to talk things out.

But goodness forbid the Heberts talk! :o
 
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Fireball900 said:
Probably the version known as our Earth, where parents go 'our teenage child is seeing a gang member, and if we make it sufficiently difficult, they will drop the relationship. Even if that requires us moving town.'

Yes, Danny didn't make the best choice - I personally would listen to Taylor before grounding her, because I always like to get as much information as I can before deciding anything (I would never trash a letter unopened) - but he didn't make the worst choice.
If Taylor didn't have superpowers, it is perfectly plausible they could have talked about the situation the following day when they both had clearer heads. Or the day after that. Or the day after that. Because keeping a person from someone is something that requires constant effort, so they would have had time to talk things out.

But goodness forbid the Heberts talk! :o
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I mean for the kids who have lost touch with their parents..........when I made the comment I was thinking Romeo/Juliet which I kind of inferred but should have said. Parents sometimes don't like who their kids love. Forbidding them just makes the attraction stronger.

The Heberts can talk if there was anything left to say.........and sadly for Danny he's too late with fatherly intervention with a teen who has basically been raising herself since her mother died and has lost all trust and respect for Danny.

Frankly for Danny to pull the I forbid you card was ridiculous, that only works when you've acted like a parent, the sad thing is that Taylor could realistically take care of herself now more than Danny could.

Danny lost control of the situation and pulled the old because I'm your father card.........when that card has been on fire for years.
 
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Shadowcub said:
when I made the comment I was thinking Romeo/Juliet which I kind of inferred but should have. Parents sometimes don't like who their kids love.
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Don't be fooled by the introduction and it's talk of 'Star Crossed Lovers'- Romeo and Juliet wasn't a love story. It was stupid kids making stupid decisions because they were stupid and horny, through and through; The fact that they were from feuding families just made the stupidity of those decisions more exaggerated.

If Taylor was playing the 'Juliet' to some gangster's Romeo, Danny would have been objectively in the right to stop her from seeing him.
 
Vindictus said:
Don't be fooled by the introduction and it's talk of 'Star Crossed Lovers'- Romeo and Juliet wasn't a love story. It was stupid kids making stupid decisions because they were stupid and horny, through and through; The fact that they were from feuding families just made the stupidity of those decisions more exaggerated.

If Taylor was playing the 'Juliet' to some gangster's Romeo, Danny would have been objectively in the right to stop her from seeing him.
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That's actually up for debate. That is to say, that's your interpretation and it has evidence, but the claim that that was Shakespeare's point is even more debatable than that.
 
Vindictus said:
Don't be fooled by the introduction and it's talk of 'Star Crossed Lovers'- Romeo and Juliet wasn't a love story. It was stupid kids making stupid decisions because they were stupid and horny, through and through; The fact that they were from feuding families just made the stupidity of those decisions more exaggerated.

If Taylor was playing the 'Juliet' to some gangster's Romeo, Danny would have been objectively in the right to stop her from seeing him.
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I just used that as a example of what saying don't be with that person..........hell that's my sister in a nutshell.
I always thought that those two teens were too damn stupid to live. But the diff between them and SpiderWolf is that those two will stomp a mudhole in you and walk it dry.
 
Shadowcub said:
I just used that as a example of what saying don't be with that person..........hell that's my sister in a nutshell.
I always thought that those two teens were too damn stupid to live. But the diff between them and SpiderWolf is that those two will stomp a mudhole in you and walk it dry.
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So you think that Danny should have done nothing because he should have been scared of being beaten up by his own daughter?
Wow, that's messed up.

Evil triumphs because good men do nothing. "Opposing them will get me hurt" is a bad reason to let dumb shit happen. It's a great reason to back down and try something sneaky like calling the cops out the back :D
 
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