1: Given that Brockton Bay is canonically such a shithole that it warranted an entire PRT department and protectorate branch for itself as well as having 3 villain gangs, 2 of which have more firepower and capes than the Protectorate I really wouldn't be so sure of that.

So sure of... what, exactly? Maybe I'm being obtuse, but I genuinely don't know what you're referring to here.

2: Madcap, the PRT (and by extension "the legitimacy of the US government and their entire power base") has no problem with villains switching sides (as long as its secret) also Costa-brown and Contessa say hi.

And we strike deals with arrested criminals all the time in real life. The thing is, we do it before it reaches the courtroom, and the deals are with the individuals themselves. This is basically saying "I have been donating to your service for years, but now, if you want to keep receiving my donations, you'll let my convicted murderer father go free."

As for Costa-Brown and Contessa? You mean the people belonging to the organization that has an explicitly hands-off policy toward Brockton Bay? What about them?

Also (depending on how his talk with Lung is interpreted) Marquis is only slightly worse than Warlord Taylor (mainly due to the killing his underlings part which Taylor certainly never did) since he was quite willing to help prevent the end of the world even if it meant passing up a chance to be released as well as lying his ass off about how "evil" he was in the epilogue to protect Amy.

...and? We saw how far they were willing to negotiate with her, and that was when they were already struggling to survive, thanks to Echidna, so I'm not sure how this is supposed to support the idea that they would be more willing to compromise their central mandate for something that, while nice, they'd have to be complete incompetents to not have contingencies on how to do without, even if only just dusting off the policies they had from before Panacea was born, let alone triggered, when they're in a much stronger position than they were during their canon negotiation with Skitter.

And hey, since you bring up what happened later on in canon, turns out, the PRT was able to survive just fine without Panacea there too.
 
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And hey, since you bring up what happened later on in canon, turns out, the PRT was able to survive just fine without Panacea there too.

Because it was either Birdcage her or she'd whip up a plague to eat all plastics and metal. In that case, it's not a question of 'survive just fine' it's more of a 'can't survive without plastics or metal so we'll ditch the miracle healer.'

Also: Scapegoat can only heal one person at a time, AND he takes those injuries upon himself until he can pass them of to some schlub. Hardly a replacement.

Also also: you remember that conversation Taylor had with the nurse after the fight with Leviathan about capes couldn't sue due to permanent damage incurred from Endbringer fights? If there were more healers capable of fixing such injuries, why did they need that law?

Also also also: It's already established in canon -- hellooooo, Alexandria package -- that certain types of powers are more common than others. There are PLENTY of reasons for keeping a full-on bio-kinetic like Panacea willing to do what you say. Methods range from blackmail with a strangely competent woman in a fedora backing you up to getting on her really good side.

Also also also ALSO:....nah, you know what? Enough chewing my keyboard. I said my piece and backed my claims -- accept it or not, choice is yours.
 
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Because it was either Birdcage her or she'd whip up a plague to eat all plastics and metal. In that case, it's not a question of 'survive just fine' it's more of a 'can't survive without plastics or metal so we'll ditch the miracle healer.'

Except, wait a minute, they did survive just fine. Whether they thought they could or not is debatable, but given the organization existed for well over a decade before Amy even triggered, I'm fairly certain they'd feel confident in their ability to do without something they only had for a few years.

Care to actually address any of the rest of my points?
 
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And we strike deals with arrested criminals all the time in real life. The thing is, we do it before it reaches the courtroom, and the deals are with the individuals themselves. This is basically saying "I have been donating to your service for years, but now, if you want to keep receiving my donations, you'll let my convicted murderer father go free."

First of all, you seem to have lots of faith in politicians to think they won't go for that.
Secondly, in my own country we recently had a criminal get presidential pardon and a high ranking position in the government law enforcement agency. So Marquis getting a pardon and being allowed to walk around free is nothing unusual or unheard off compared to RL.

As for Costa-Brown and Contessa? You mean the people belonging to the organization that has an explicitly hands-off policy toward Brockton Bay? What about them?

I think he means that they undermine the legitimacy of the government by using PtV to get whatever Cauldron wants by Contessa and holding two positions that should be separate by Alexandria. Many countries separate various powers for a reason.

...and? We saw how far they were willing to negotiate with her, and that was when they were already struggling to survive, thanks to Echidna, so I'm not sure how this is supposed to support the idea that they would be more willing to compromise their central mandate for something that, while nice, they'd have to be complete incompetents to not have contingencies on how to do without, even if only just dusting off the policies they had from before Panacea was born, let alone triggered.

And hey, since you bring up canon, turns out, the PRT was able to survive just fine without her there too.

And the Cauldron would not win without her jailbreaking Skitter. The PRT is all about what Cauldron wants, the mandate is just for show to appease the public and politicians. The very fact of Alexandria being chief director of PRT throws their mandate out of the window.



So yes, I can believe that Piggot will tell Amy to get lost, then she will get a call from Costa-Brown who, depending on what Contessa will say, might want to negotiate. Governments do that all the time, it's called 'compromise' and it does not destroy their legitimacy or anything. Worst case scenario Maqruis will die and 'John Smith' will be allowed to live with Amelia, governments also do that all the time, lie I mean, killing supervillains is apparently a big no-no in Worm.
 
Care to actually address any of the rest of my points?

There is a lack of evidence that they did -- and this being Worm, the generaI assumption is that they didn't because 'It Gets Worse'. You also failed to notice my other points.

Look, this is getting us nowhere. You're not going to back down on this and neither am I, so let's just agree to drop this before both our blood pressures spike.
 
First of all, you seem to have lots of faith in politicians to think they won't go for that.
Secondly, in my own country we recently had a criminal get presidential pardon and a high ranking position in the government law enforcement agency. So Marquis getting a pardon and being allowed to walk around free is nothing unusual or unheard off compared to RL.

I have faith that a politician isn't going to want to commit political suicide. This is the makings of an epic scandal.

I think he means that they undermine the legitimacy of the government by using PtV to get whatever Cauldron wants by Contessa and holding two positions that should be separate by Alexandria. Many countries separate various powers for a reason.

Well, yes. But the PRT, by and large, doesn't know this. The problem is when something like this goes public.

And the Cauldron would not win without her jailbreaking Skitter. The PRT is all about what Cauldron wants, the mandate is just for show to appease the public and politicians. The very fact of Alexandria being chief director of PRT throws their mandate out of the window.

Except that wasn't Cauldron's plan, so you're now asserting that Cauldron is going to give in to Amy for the sake of a plan they never actually came up with and hasn't yet been formed by anyone yet, barring perhaps the Simurgh.

So yes, I can believe that Piggot will tell Amy to get lost, then she will get a call from Costa-Brown who, depending on what Contessa will say, might want to negotiate. Governments do that all the time, it's called 'compromise' and it does not destroy their legitimacy or anything. Worst case scenario Maqruis will die and 'John Smith' will be allowed to live with Amelia, governments also do that all the time, lie I mean, killing supervillains is apparently a big no-no in Worm.

It's possible, perhaps, but there is little to no evidence that Amy is held up as all that important outside Brockton Bay. She's a minor local celebrity, perhaps a better healer than most, notable for healing for free.

The people who care are the locals in Brockton Bay, but they wouldn't have the power to give her what she wants. The people who have that power are at the national level and have little to no reason to care.

Again, they're looking at the choices of "do without a volunteer healer who we didn't rely on before and shouldn't be relying on anyway" or "release a multiple murderer from the inescapable prison and hope she continues volunteering, even though doing so offers zero guarantees that she'll actually hold up her end of the bargain and continue healing once he's free, and the moment the public catches wind of this, they will crucify us."

EDIT:

Also also: you remember that conversation Taylor had with the nurse after the fight with Leviathan about capes couldn't sue due to permanent damage incurred from Endbringer fights? If there were more healers capable of fixing such injuries, why did they need that law?

Well, obviously, the law couldn't possibly date back to when the cape population was much lower. *rolls eyes*

Also also also: It's already established in canon -- hellooooo, Alexandria package -- that certain types of powers are more common than others. There are PLENTY of reasons for keeping a full-on bio-kinetic like Panacea willing to do what you say. Methods range from blackmail with a strangely competent woman in a fedora backing you up to getting on her really good side.

You mean the strangely competent woman in a fedora who is explicitly staying out of Brockton Bay for their little experiment? That woman?

And yeah, some powers are more common than others. Got any evidence that powers with healing applications are among the rare ones? Not necessarily saying they aren't, but I am curious if any such evidence actually exists, or if it's just implied.

There is a lack of evidence that they did -- and this being Worm, the generaI assumption is that they didn't because 'It Gets Worse'. You also failed to notice my other points.

Didn't see your edits. So the fact that they talk about deploying PRT squads in Venom 29.9 isn't evidence the PRT survived? I'm curious what you would consider "evidence," then.

The central point remains: Would the people who actually have the power to release Marquis from the Birdcage feel it's worth it?

The PRT has no guarantee Amy will hold up her end of the bargain if they give in. They have no reason to believe they can't do without her; they've done so before, when they had fewer capes and therefore fewer healers, after all. Cauldron currently has a hands-off policy toward Brockton Bay, so there'd be no intervention from them. The PotUS has the authority, but he has to weigh the potential PR nightmare that would come from this. The local PRT would want her help, but even they survived the "bad old days" without her. For these reasons, I don't think they would. You disagree. That's fair, but it does rely on a federal organization being incompetent enough to have become reliant on a single point of failure that has only been around for a few years, tops, openly ignore their official mandate of "nonhuman authority over parahumans," risk a major PR disaster, and all for a service they would have no means of guaranteeing they would receive if they do give in. And that people who are not directly affected by her services would agree to all that.
 
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Is everyone just plain ignoring the fact that, as far as anyone except Cauldron knows, there is literally no way that you can get Marquis out of the Birdcage without releasing everyone else? They specifically designed it for the sole purpose of nobody ever getting out of there alive, so they designed it so that even if someone tried to release one person, the other three hundred psychopaths would probably gank them. And even though Cauldron was capable of bypassing that, they chose not to until Golden Morning. So unless they foresee a scenario where Amy not getting what she wants is as bad as the Golden Idiot's rampage, they're not going to, and as far as anyone else knows, Amy just asked for something akin to turning the Earth into a block of cheese. Even with all the powers blatantly violating the laws of physics, the Protectorate has no reason to believe that Amy's request is even possible.
 
Is everyone just plain ignoring the fact that, as far as anyone except Cauldron knows, there is literally no way that you can get Marquis out of the Birdcage without releasing everyone else? They specifically designed it for the sole purpose of nobody ever getting out of there alive, so they designed it so that even if someone tried to release one person, the other three hundred psychopaths would probably gank them. And even though Cauldron was capable of bypassing that, they chose not to until Golden Morning. So unless they foresee a scenario where Amy not getting what she wants is as bad as the Golden Idiot's rampage, they're not going to, and as far as anyone else knows, Amy just asked for something akin to turning the Earth into a block of cheese. Even with all the powers blatantly violating the laws of physics, the Protectorate has no reason to believe that Amy's request is even possible.
Teleportation can get out (depending on the limits of the teleportation and methods used to secure the prison, obviously). Strider could do it, I think. Mouse Protector might be able to, too. Eidolon, depending on what powers he has.
Glaistig Uaine can also probably leave whenever she wants.
 
Also (depending on how his talk with Lung is interpreted) Marquis is only slightly worse than Warlord Taylor (mainly due to the killing his underlings part which Taylor certainly never did) since he was quite willing to help prevent the end of the world even if it meant passing up a chance to be released as well as lying his ass off about how "evil" he was in the epilogue to protect Amy.
You don't know that. Whose to say Marquis wasn't selling drugs to school kids? Extorting businesses? Or any number of crimes that Taylor was able avoid thanks to having infinite money cheats turned on. Hell if the man is willing to kill people that work for him the second they fail him what would he do to people that actively opposed him?
 
Frankly, both scenarios are how things probably would have played out anyway. At this point, Ack's fully bought in to the fanon surrounding Worm, in this specific case saintly!woobie!Amy that can do no wrong, and his work reflects that. I really enjoyed this snippet, and it reaffirms my belief that you are one of the only good Wormfic writers out there. Most of the rest are tolerable at best.
Hmm.

You haven't read some of my other stories, have you? Another Way, for instance :D

Or do you mean "Amy never gets any backlash from what she does"?
You know, I'm actually curious if there's any actual evidence somewhere that there are no other healers as capable and versatile as Amy. Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack, after all; otherwise, as someone pointed out in another thread, the obvious conclusion is that healers are more common than Alexandria packages.

And even if she is special, she's far from the only healer the PRT has on tap. She's not irreplaceable. Even if does take, say, five other capes with healing powers to cover the broad spectrum of conditions Amy can tackle, that's not all that insurmountable, since outside of Endbringer fights -- where you're going to have all of them present anyway -- you likely aren't going to have such a demand that the five are really all that less effective than five Amys, if only because five people can be in five different places, and you can direct them to where their specific powers are actually needed.

As Dr. Mercurious points out, even as late as the Leviathan fight, rescue workers have to be ultra-careful not to give injured capes the wherewithal to sue them (which sounds like the Good Samaritan clause never took on in that instance). This is with Panacea in the field.

Healers are rare as fuck. There is (by WoG) no 'healing power' on its own accord. Alexandria packages, sure. Damaging powers? Dime a dozen. 'Healing' is not a power. Healing is a side effect.

Look at it this way. You're in the process of getting your powers. Trigger event is right the fuck now. Your problems are right in your face. Do you trigger with the ability to help someone else, or to help yourself? I'll give you two guesses, and the first one doesn't count.

How many people trigger with a power that says "I want to heal someone"? Fuck and all. We even have two cases in BB that could have gone 'healer' but didn't. Miss Militia was in a situation where she, or any of her friends, could have been injured at any moment, but she triggered with the power to kill people. Clockblocker's father got cancer. Did he trigger with the ability to cure cancer? Nope. He triggered with the ability to stop time. Powers are inherently selfish and conflict-inducing.

Nobody else* in the world can cure cancer, or perform most of what Panacea does.

* Scion excepted, of course. And probably Eidolon. But they're too busy being whiny bitches.

Scapegoat can take away non-life-threatening conditions, so long as you don't take a hit or move away from him in the next hour or so. Othala can let you very slowly regenerate body damage, one person at a time. Woo. Panacea fixes both of those situations in fucking seconds.


And even if she is special, she's far from the only healer the PRT has on tap. She's not irreplaceable.
Ah, yeah. She is. Nobody in the general run can do what she can. Nobody.

Even if does take, say, five other capes with healing powers to cover the broad spectrum of conditions Amy can tackle, that's not all that insurmountable, since outside of Endbringer fights -- where you're going to have all of them present anyway -- you likely aren't going to have such a demand that the five are really all that less effective than five Amys, if only because five people can be in five different places, and you can direct them to where their specific powers are actually needed.
Except that the only people who can cover Amy's capabilities are Scion and Eidolon. Nobody else can do that shit. She's internationally famous for a reason.

But ultimately, it's not her relative capability as a healer that's the main factor. It's the fact that she's essentially asking PRT to undermine the legitimacy of the US government and their entire power base, the only thing that really makes them any different from any of the cape gangs. Moreover, it's the utter and simple fact that Amy is not even remotely crucial to the survival of the PRT, Protectorate, and Wards; while she's very useful, perhaps more useful than any other healer around, they don't need her. Given that I spelled this out explicitly, I'm not sure how you could have missed that.
There's a difference between 'not crucial' and 'extremely convenient'. They're used to her. Go back to 1980's computers and see how you like it. That's the difference between normal healing and Panacea.

EDIT: Never mind the fact that if the PRT actually bears any resemblance to a real life federal law enforcement agency, they wouldn't have the authority to release someone from the Birdcage anyway. It's something that would be decided in the Oval Office, not a PRT conference room.
Except that they're seriously discussing it, in a PRT conference room, in this snip:

"-Birdcage."

The word hung in the air.

I snapped to attention, fully awake in an instant. I had to take a second to look at the faces of the people around the table before I realized who'd said it. Armstrong, the man who'd been my advocate an instant ago.

"A little extreme," West said.

"The next few fights are going to be crucial. Every time the Endbringers come, there are major losses. We lose good capes. Others step in, but they don't have the experience or the organization, so we lose more. New Delhi was very nearly the culmination of that."

"We won New Delhi."

"We lost. Scion won," Armstrong responded. "Participation will be up for the next fight. Let's use that. We bolster the numbers further, by tapping the Birdcage. There are powerful capes in there, and some are cooperative."

Oh. They aren't talking about me.

"And if they start wreaking havoc afterward? Or turn on us?"

"We can be select about it. Dragon's willing to give us a searchable database of all of the conversation and behavior records within the Birdcage."

I raised my head at that. "Dragon's alive?"

"She got in contact with us a short while ago."

I nodded. I felt a little dazed, confused. Too much in a short time. I was reaching the point where I wasn't sure I'd be able to take it all in.

"It's not worth it," West said.

"A moderate risk for a chance to save hundreds, thousands, even millions of lives," Armstrong said.

"How many lives do we lose because of the monsters we set free?" West retorted. "Those criminals were put there for a reason."

"At first," Armstrong said. "But the rationale for indefinite detention has been getting weaker, and the number of capes going in has been increasing. I-"

"It's not going to happen, Armstrong," West cut him off.

Armstrong deflated a little, settling back in his chair.

Because it was either Birdcage her or she'd whip up a plague to eat all plastics and metal. In that case, it's not a question of 'survive just fine' it's more of a 'can't survive without plastics or metal so we'll ditch the miracle healer.'

Also: Scapegoat can only heal one person at a time, AND he takes those injuries upon himself until he can pass them of to some schlub. Hardly a replacement.

Also also: you remember that conversation Taylor had with the nurse after the fight with Leviathan about capes couldn't sue due to permanent damage incurred from Endbringer fights? If there were more healers capable of fixing such injuries, why did they need that law?

Also also also: It's already established in canon -- hellooooo, Alexandria package -- that certain types of powers are more common than others. There are PLENTY of reasons for keeping a full-on bio-kinetic like Panacea willing to do what you say. Methods range from blackmail with a strangely competent woman in a fedora backing you up to getting on her really good side.

Also also also ALSO:....nah, you know what? Enough chewing my keyboard. I said my piece and backed my claims -- accept it or not, choice is yours.
Exactly what I'm trying to say.
Is everyone just plain ignoring the fact that, as far as anyone except Cauldron knows, there is literally no way that you can get Marquis out of the Birdcage without releasing everyone else? They specifically designed it for the sole purpose of nobody ever getting out of there alive, so they designed it so that even if someone tried to release one person, the other three hundred psychopaths would probably gank them. And even though Cauldron was capable of bypassing that, they chose not to until Golden Morning. So unless they foresee a scenario where Amy not getting what she wants is as bad as the Golden Idiot's rampage, they're not going to, and as far as anyone else knows, Amy just asked for something akin to turning the Earth into a block of cheese. Even with all the powers blatantly violating the laws of physics, the Protectorate has no reason to believe that Amy's request is even possible.
Nope. Check the snip above. The PRT knows they can let people out, and be selective about it.
You don't know that. Whose to say Marquis wasn't selling drugs to school kids?
Except that he doesn't hurt women or kids. It's his thing.
Extorting businesses? Or any number of crimes that Taylor was able avoid thanks to having infinite money cheats turned on.
Well, he's a criminal. He does commit crimes, yes.
Hell if the man is willing to kill people that work for him the second they fail him what would he do to people that actively opposed him?
If he killed his own men the second they failed him, he'd run out of men. I'd say if they failed him in some big way, yeah. But not for forgetting to call him 'sir' or something minor like that.
 
Personally I think the story would be more interesting if Amy asked about contacting Marquis first rather than demanding his release off the bat, they build a rapport, and then things get more complicated.

Assuming the inmates even have the ability to talk with the outside world.
 
As Dr. Mercurious points out, even as late as the Leviathan fight, rescue workers have to be ultra-careful not to give injured capes the wherewithal to sue them (which sounds like the Good Samaritan clause never took on in that instance). This is with Panacea in the field.
This is true of rescue workers in this world today. If you think the guy driving the ambulance made your injuries worse you can totally sue his ass.

Healers are rare as fuck. There is (by WoG) no 'healing power' on its own accord. Alexandria packages, sure. Damaging powers? Dime a dozen. 'Healing' is not a power. Healing is a side effect.
Except as someone on SB pointed out There are three Alexandria packages that we know about (Alexandria, Glory Girl, Aegis) and Four healers (Panacea, Othala, Lizardtail, and Scapegoat). There isn't any in story statement that the ability to heal others is rare. Hell Brockton Bay, a city of a less than half a million people has two that we know of.


Except that he doesn't hurt women or kids. It's his thing.
He doesn't personally hurt kids, but why would he ask where his dealers work? Who they sell to or what corners they work?

If he killed his own men the second they failed him, he'd run out of men. I'd say if they failed him in some big way, yeah. But not for forgetting to call him 'sir' or something minor like that.
Except the tendency to kill his underlings was so well known it's one of the biggest traits people remember about him.
 
Nobody else* in the world can cure cancer, or perform most of what Panacea does.

Ah, yeah. She is. Nobody in the general run can do what she can. Nobody.

Except that the only people who can cover Amy's capabilities are Scion and Eidolon. Nobody else can do that shit. She's internationally famous for a reason.

So the answer to my question is no, there is no actual evidence, only implication. That's what I'm getting out of this. Thanks.

There's a difference between 'not crucial' and 'extremely convenient'. They're used to her. Go back to 1980's computers and see how you like it. That's the difference between normal healing and Panacea.

She's only had her power for a few years, and she's one person who lives in one city, volunteers her time in the most inefficient way possible, and doesn't take requests. How "used to it" do you seriously think a federal organization could get to something that has an impact on such a small part of their organization in such a short span of time?

Except that they're seriously discussing it, in a PRT conference room, in this snip:

Huh. When was this again? What was the state of the union at that time?

Still makes no sense, but canon is canon.

Except that he doesn't hurt women or kids. It's his thing.

Well, he's a criminal. He does commit crimes, yes.

Personally, no, he doesn't, but I'm still unconvinced that there are enough crimes are entirely devoid of female and child victims that an organization large enough to control a significant chunk of a decent-sized city like Brockton Bay could sustain itself.

Personally I think the story would be more interesting if Amy asked about contacting Marquis first rather than demanding his release off the bat, they build a rapport, and then things get more complicated.

Assuming the inmates even have the ability to talk with the outside world.

*shrug* I only wrote those snippets as a direct response as to how I felt it would more realistically go as compared to Hostage Situation. You want a story where she talks to Marquis first? Go read that, even though that technically came after the demand.
 
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Hmm.

You haven't read some of my other stories, have you? Another Way, for instance :D

Or do you mean "Amy never gets any backlash from what she does"?
I have read most of your stories. I follow a lot of them. I can say with conviction that most of your stories rely heavily on fanon. It's a testament to your writing skill that many of your stories are still interesting despite this. The only two off the top of my head I ignored completely were Another Way and Hostage Situation, because those times the fanon overcame even your skill at writing. If they were to disappear forever from the internet and the minds of everybody else, I wouldn't feel remotely sad.

I don't care to argue with you. That's the last I'll say on the subject. This is getting off-topic anyway, and we wouldn't want the mods to come down, would we?
 
*shrug* I only wrote those snippets as a direct response as to how I felt it would more realistically go as compared to Hostage Situation. You want a story where she talks to Marquis first? Go read that, even though that technically came after the demand.

I wasn't getting on your case or anything, just putting in my own two cents. I didn't read much into the story beyond chapter one for basically the same reasons.
 
This is true of rescue workers in this world today. If you think the guy driving the ambulance made your injuries worse you can totally sue his ass.
That's fucking ridiculous. The guy's getting you to hospital.

Except as someone on SB pointed out There are three Alexandria packages that we know about (Alexandria, Glory Girl, Aegis) and Four healers (Panacea, Othala, Lizardtail, and Scapegoat). There isn't any in story statement that the ability to heal others is rare. Hell Brockton Bay, a city of a less than half a million people has two that we know of.
Alexandria Packages are common enough to be known as Alexandria Packages. It's right there in the name.

As for healers: Lizardtail isn't around until later. Othala can do this:

Stormtiger had cast off his mask, and wore only face paint. He still walked a little stiffly from the gunshot wounds that he'd taken to his legs. Othala had attended to them over the past few weeks, would give him a half-hour to an hour of regenerating ability each night until he was better, but knees were slow to heal.

Give someone very slow regeneration, one person at a time. As I stated above.

Scapegoat takes away injuries that aren't about to kill you immediately (for obvious reasons) and needs to stay within a certain range for an hour or so, and you can't take a hit in the meantime. That's really sucky, for healing.

There's WOG that there is no 'healing' power. Which, by definition, makes it rare.

He doesn't personally hurt kids, but why would he ask where his dealers work? Who they sell to or what corners they work?
He doesn't sell drugs. Lung in the Birdcage: "You don't move product."

Except the tendency to kill his underlings was so well known it's one of the biggest traits people remember about him.
Which is funny. The readers know about it, because it came up in the conversation, in the Birdcage. The general public doesn't.

I have read most of your stories. I follow a lot of them. I can say with conviction that most of your stories rely heavily on fanon.
Kindly provide citations, or cease making comments of this nature.

It's a testament to your writing skill that many of your stories are still interesting despite this. The only two off the top of my head I ignored completely were Another Way and Hostage Situation, because those times the fanon overcame even your skill at writing. If they were to disappear forever from the internet and the minds of everybody else, I wouldn't feel remotely sad.

I don't care to argue with you. That's the last I'll say on the subject. This is getting off-topic anyway, and we wouldn't want the mods to come down, would we?
I use canon to back my stories. I request citation for anything that contradicts the canon that I use. Point out the fanon that I am supposedly using, or retract your statement, please.
 
That's fucking ridiculous. The guy's getting you to hospital.


Alexandria Packages are common enough to be known as Alexandria Packages. It's right there in the name.

As for healers: Lizardtail isn't around until later. Othala can do this:



Give someone very slow regeneration, one person at a time. As I stated above.

Scapegoat takes away injuries that aren't about to kill you immediately (for obvious reasons) and needs to stay within a certain range for an hour or so, and you can't take a hit in the meantime. That's really sucky, for healing.

There's WOG that there is no 'healing' power. Which, by definition, makes it rare.


He doesn't sell drugs. Lung in the Birdcage: "You don't move product."


Which is funny. The readers know about it, because it came up in the conversation, in the Birdcage. The general public doesn't.


Kindly provide citations, or cease making comments of this nature.


I use canon to back my stories. I request citation for anything that contradicts the canon that I use. Point out the fanon that I am supposedly using, or retract your statement, please.

Either way, this discussion is highly off-topic for this thread. Perhaps there is a more appropriate venue for this?
 
My take on the premise @Ack presented in Hostage Situation, with two different divergences.

Track A: Freedom (Worm)​
Nice. While I liked Ack's story this is a much more plausible scenario(well except for how easily Amy dealt with Bonesaw) than Ack's.

You know, I'm actually curious if there's any actual evidence somewhere that there are no other healers as capable and versatile as Amy. Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack, after all;
Last time I got into an argument about it the most anyone could present was Amy's teenaged angst-filled rant about being a world famous healer.
That same rant (IIRC) also reveals that it's public knowledge she can alter someone's biological age - which would make her internationally famous even if she had no healing abilities.

Healers are rare as fuck. There is (by WoG) no 'healing power' on its own accord. Alexandria packages, sure. Damaging powers? Dime a dozen. 'Healing' is not a power. Healing is a side effect.
Sure. So let's say only 1 cape in 100 has some sort of healing power, that still means there are several thousand healing capes around.

Nobody else* in the world can cure cancer, or perform most of what Panacea does.
Scapegoat can. If you want your story to have Panacea as the best healer in the world, well there's certainly no evidence against that, but there are quite a few other healers and while it's quite possible no one is as fast or as comprehensive as she is I doubt there's any healing she's publicly known to do that there isn't some other cape who can do also - they might be slower, and limited to only that type of healing, but they could do it.

Edit:To clarify, I meant Scapegoat can cure cancer, not that he can do "most of what Panacea does"
 
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That's fucking ridiculous. The guy's getting you to hospital.
Doesn't matter. You can totally sue him if you think you have cause. You could sue a fireman for breaking you door to rescue you from a fire. Whether you would win is a different story, but you total could.

Alexandria Packages are common enough to be known as Alexandria Packages. It's right there in the name.
Yes, it's apparently so rare that the power set is named specifically for the biggest hero with that power. Purity isn't called a "Legend Package", Armsmaster isn't "A Hero Package."

Give someone very slow regeneration, one person at a time. As I stated above.

Scapegoat takes away injuries that aren't about to kill you immediately (for obvious reasons) and needs to stay within a certain range for an hour or so, and you can't take a hit in the meantime. That's really sucky, for healing.

There's WOG that there is no 'healing' power. Which, by definition, makes it rare.
Amy can only heal one person at a time with a touch and it isn't instantaneous. I mean there are still a lot of people that are sick even in Brockton Bay's hospitals. Unless they're all there because of brain tumors Amy isn't some goddess of healing.

Which is funny. The readers know about it, because it came up in the conversation, in the Birdcage. The general public doesn't.
How do you know they don't?
 
Doesn't matter. You can totally sue him if you think you have cause. You could sue a fireman for breaking you door to rescue you from a fire. Whether you would win is a different story, but you total could.
Which is a total dick move, imo.

Yes, it's apparently so rare that the power set is named specifically for the biggest hero with that power. Purity isn't called a "Legend Package", Armsmaster isn't "A Hero Package."
You're looking at it the wrong way around. Alexandria packages are so common within the Brute class that they got their own sub-class. Whereas flying blasters aren't quite as common, and Tinkers already have a designation.

Amy can only heal one person at a time with a touch and it isn't instantaneous. I mean there are still a lot of people that are sick even in Brockton Bay's hospitals. Unless they're all there because of brain tumors Amy isn't some goddess of healing.
Compared to everyone except Scion and Eidolon, yes she actually is.

How do you know they don't?
Because Lung didn't know until Marquis told him.
 
Because Lung didn't know until Marquis told him.

That isn't actually evidence in either direction. I don't think there is such evidence in canon.
Lung didn't just not know Marquis killed people who failed him, he didn't know anything about how Marquis operated - things that people in and around BB at the time certainly did. This makes perfect sense as Lung was not in the U.S at the time. much less BB and by the time he arrived in the area Marquis was long gone.
 
Which is a total dick move, imo.
So? It's totally something you could do, so Amy is not a factor in why the rescue workers are so careful.

You're looking at it the wrong way around. Alexandria packages are so common within the Brute class that they got their own sub-class. Whereas flying blasters aren't quite as common, and Tinkers already have a designation.
Or they're so uncommon that it's used so rarely that it's easier to reference the most iconic version rather than just having it stand on its own. Also remember that we the readers see three characters that fit the Alexandria package mold while we see four characters that can be useful to heal others. If we take canon as a reference pool you have a better chance of getting a power that heals others in someway than you are to be a flying brick. You've yet to have any in-story citations that say that healers are super rare. Until you do we're arguing opinions and fanon nothing more.

Because Lung didn't know until Marquis told him.
Lung, a recent immigrant that clearly didn't have any interest on learning about crime lords that had been behind bars for 10 years. That's hardly proof of anything.
 
Nice. While I liked Ack's story this is a much more plausible scenario(well except for how easily Amy dealt with Bonesaw) than Ack's.


Last time I got into an argument about it the most anyone could present was Amy's teenaged angst-filled rant about being a world famous healer.
That same rant (IIRC) also reveals that it's public knowledge she can alter someone's biological age - which would make her internationally famous even if she had no healing abilities.
Actually I believe the line was:

["]I got international attention over it. The healer. The girl who could cure cancer with a touch, make someone ten years younger, regrow lost limbs. ["]
Cancer came up first, then youth, then regrowing limbs. Which implies very strongly that very few, if any, other capes can pull that off.

Sure. So let's say only 1 cape in 100 has some sort of healing power, that still means there are several thousand healing capes around.
Let's not.

I don't know how many times I have to say this before it sinks in. There is no healing power, by WoG. Any ability to heal people is a side effect of another power. Powers are generally focused on 'fix my problems'. Reaching out to heal someone else is vanishingly rare. If there were even five other people in the US who could parallel what Amy could do, she'd know about it, because someone would have told her.

Scapegoat can. If you want your story to have Panacea as the best healer in the world, well there's certainly no evidence against that, but there are quite a few other healers
NO. There are not. Panacea, Scapegoate, Othala, Eidolon, Scion and Lizardtail - those are all the capes with healing powers we ever see.

and while it's quite possible no one is as fast or as comprehensive as she is I doubt there's any healing she's publicly known to do that there isn't some other cape who can do also - they might be slower, and limited to only that type of healing, but they could do it.

Edit:To clarify, I meant Scapegoat can cure cancer, not that he can do "most of what Panacea does"
If there were other 'mini-Panaceas' out there, you'd think there would be some mention, yeah? Nope. She doesn't say "I'm better than the others, but they are out there." She basically makes the case that she's it. Bonesaw even targets her specifically.
That isn't actually evidence in either direction. I don't think there is such evidence in canon.
Lung didn't just not know Marquis killed people who failed him, he didn't know anything about how Marquis operated - things that people in and around BB at the time certainly did. This makes perfect sense as Lung was not in the U.S at the time. much less BB and by the time he arrived in the area Marquis was long gone.
Brandish didn't bring it up either.

In any case, if it had been so well-known, it would have been passed on sooner or later.
 
Cancer came up first, then youth, then regrowing limbs. Which implies very strongly that very few, if any, other capes can pull that off.
Or the fact that she was willing to do so for others for free might have had something to do with it.

NO. There are not. Panacea, Scapegoate, Othala, Eidolon, Scion and Lizardtail - those are all the capes with healing powers we ever see.
Alexandria, Glory Girl, Ageis. The only Flying Bricks we ever see. So by your logic Flying Bricks are almost totally nonexistent too.

If there were other 'mini-Panaceas' out there, you'd think there would be some mention, yeah? Nope. She doesn't say "I'm better than the others, but they are out there." She basically makes the case that she's it. Bonesaw even targets her specifically.
Doesn't Bonesaw target Panacea because she can do far far more than heal? I mean If it was just healing Bonesaw personally can do far much more. In fact her entire effort with Amy was to push her into being willing to warp biology. Bonesaw didn't care that Panacea could cure cancer. She cared that Amy could make Cancer airborne and contagious.
 
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