What is the Purpose of a Setting?

NonSequtur

a body
Because I thought the tangent in the superpower worldbuilding thread was interesting.

So, to what end does one design a setting? What questions should you answer (particularly about the narrative) before or during its construction? How important is internal consistency when it comes to judging the quality of a setting or the work as a whole?
 
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It depends on what the creator(s) were going for - some works are made just to explore a setting concept, in some the setting justifies the desired narrative, some are fanfiction. I would say how successful a setting is is better judged on how it fits with the rest of the work rather than taking it by itself.

The importance of consistency is the same - Star Trek isn't hurt by its massive inconsistency, since that's not the point, but if something like Lord of the Rings had such massive gaps, that would just about ruin it.
 
To set up the tools the writer needs to tell the story he wants to tell. The more ambitious the work the finer the tools needed.

Some writers write just to show off their tools so to speak, kind of like one of those really boring seminars in trade expos and stuff. Which I don't like or get but whatever.
 
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It's supposed to be the stage in which a story is told, which is why fiction that tries to make the setting the story is so fucking boring.
 
Like others have said it's like the stage of a play. I'd add that like a stage you only show what needs to be shown to either establish a location or to inform the acts. Setting elements should only be shown if it somehow plays into the larger story.
 
The purpose of setting in the context of a narrative is to ground a story in the reality of place. Note that I don't say to ground a story in reality; the use of setting would be rather poor if one constrained themselves to writing only what made sense in the context of our reality.

To avoid going too deep into all this shit nobody but me actually cares about, the purpose of a setting is to provide a backdrop to, and support the development of, a narrative. With the setting, you set the time and place of a story, you design the milieu, you develop history, culture, and use this all to build a larger narrative- it informs character dialogue, tone, atmosphere, character interactions, social context, and provides a foundation for the metaphor most narratives are built around. It serves the purpose of building verisimilitude, of providing context for theme, and style.

It serves a great many purposes, that any writer worth their salt (i.e. pretty much nobody on SV, through no fault of their own) know when to manipulate and build upon and discard, much like with characterization, tone, atmosphere, themes.

Because, see, here's the thing?

As a rule, a well-developed setting is integral to building the verisimilitude a decent story works on.

As a rule, a decent writer knows how, when and why to break the rules that govern writing to make a story better.
Given this is what inspired this thread, I should probably at least quote this post here. :V

In the hands of any decent writer, the setting is an integral part of the story. You've probably heard the expression "the setting is almost a character in its own right", yeah?

In Worm, to use an example just about everybody here will have heard of, Brockton Bay is almost a character in its own right. The architecture, the design, the atmosphere, the tone, the characters and social context that pervade the very essence of the town breathe life into it. In turn, the characters shine in the setting, their distrust and anxieties and petty hatreds amplified in the reader's mind by the setting.

Neither would work half as well without the other; Brockton Bay was crafted to have a specific tone, feel, to it, and that feeling was then used to amplify the attributes of the characters within, which played in to the narrative and etc etc.

Or, to use an example probably far fewer people here have heard; A Casual Vacancy, a non-Harry Potter book written by J.K. Rowling. In it, Pagford's setting is informed by its social context- it's ripe for small-town bickering, nonsense, prejudice and pettiness.

In A Casual Vacancy, the setting isn't actually a physical place (well, technically, Pagford is a physical place, but it's not the part of the setting that actually influences the narrative). Rather, the setting boils back to the small-town attitudes that pervade smaller towns in places like England and America, where rumours can tear a person's life apart and people are small, shrill, selfish and slutty in equal measures. There's a broad context behind this that has developed through decades of media exaggerating and portraying this life, and the story uses this to excellent effect in how it highlights its character's deficiencies, issues and overall petty grudges leading to the self-destruction of the town.

(Of course, A Casual Vacancy is a very problematic story, and it's not actually very good; I'm using it to highlight the use of the setting within here, I'm not calling the rest of the story good.)

"The stage in which the story is told" is a very, very simplistic view on what the purpose of a setting is and should be, and misses out on a damned ton of nuance that has helped some very decent authors craft some amazing stories through careful manipulation of their setting and the atmosphere derived from that.
 
That's a thing the setting can be, but not a thing it has to be.
There is literally nothing a story has to be.

If you are going to talk literary analysis, there is an implicit agreement that one must simply acknowledge that anything you say can be done away with by a skilled author and move on, unless you are analyzing how a skilled author pulled something off.
 
There is literally nothing a story has to be.

I suppose it doesn't technically have to be a stage for the story to be set on, but almost every instance is at least that, which makes it a good starting point.

I also want a definition that's more liberal than the one you're trying to use, because you seem to feel like Star Wars is not an example of a good setting, while I think it is. Because it serves its purpose perfectly, even if it's mostly by always having some adventure waiting for the heroes.
 
I also want a definition that's more liberal than the one you're trying to use
I mean, if you just want me to give you a false definition, I can totally lie to you all you want, no dramas.

But... you're not the only person in this thread, and other people here might be interested in knowing what the actual purpose of a setting is, y'know?
 
I mean, if you just want me to give you a false definition, I can totally lie to you all you want, no dramas.

But... you're not the only person in this thread, and other people here might be interested in knowing what the actual purpose of a setting is, y'know?

I don't know, I guess my big thing is that a setting that's just some cool stuff that's been thrown together is as valid as if you sit down and spend hours plotting out the history of the world. You need to pick what job you want your setting to do and if it does that job well, then it's a good setting.
 

You're going for "it's just, like, your opinion, man" when the subject under debate is literary criticism? A topic which people do degrees in and which is a well-respected academic field and which there are lots of people out there earning an actual living from?

Well. Uh. Gosh. Have you tried, you know, showing any sign you know what you're talking about?
 
You're going for "it's just, like, your opinion, man" when the subject under debate is literary criticism? A topic which people do degrees in and which is a well-respected academic field and which there are lots of people out there earning an actual living from?

Well. Uh. Gosh. Have you tried, you know, showing any sign you know what you're talking about?
Because this is a subjective thing. What one person says a setting is and what another person says is neither right or wrong. Saying there is an actual definition is misleading.
 
Because I thought the tangent in the superpower worldbuilding thread was interesting.

Because I (that is, me, the worldbuilder) am having fun (that is, the thing that you have because you enjoy something). If I can use it for a story, great. If other people enjoy it, are excited by the picture of fantastic new places, also great. If I can stretch my imagination and writing abilities in the process, do research and learn new things, get feedback, get better - priceless.

But it starts with me having fun.

When you think about the ur-example of fantasy worldbuilding, JRR Tolkien wasn't making Middle Earth because he wanted to use it in The Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit. The vast majority of the things that informed the backstory of Middle Earth, the conlangs, the mythology - those things weren't really necessary; they were things the Tolkien dreamed up because he's the kind of person who becomes a professor of language and literature and finds those things fascinating on their own.
 
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Violation of C.C.III.15.5
Because this is a subjective thing. What one person says a setting is and what another person says is neither right or wrong. Saying there is an actual definition is misleading.

Okay, so that's just settled it.

You have no idea what you're talking about, and you should probably just stop posting in this thread and let the people who aren't going to waste time fapping about pointless sophistry do the big-people talking. You know, the things which actually help people improve, rather than verbally ejaculating about herp derp derp it's just a humanity subject it's not objective that means nothing matters and there's no actual definition herp derp derp.

Because, you know, by your definitions the English language is a subjective thing. What one person says words mean and what another person says is neither right or wrong. Saying there is an actual definition is misleading.

So I'm not actually calling you an ignoramus who's not contributing anything worthwhile to the conversation, because the subjective nature of English means that you have no idea if your purely subjective understanding of the language is at all related to what I subjectively meant. Incidentally, you should probably go ignore all laws in your relevant jurisdiction, because laws aren't objective - they're just a subjective product of human interactions and they're not real and you don't need to follow them if you don't want to. Oh, and economics isn't objective, so the global recession didn't really happen.

Or maybe you could even stop being a moron who's being actively useless in a thread trying to discuss the purpose of the setting in a narrative. You could stop flinging your shit into the conversation, and accept that merely because certain standards of human behaviour are not grounded in hard physical laws does not make them worthless.
 
Okay, so that's just settled it.

You have no idea what you're talking about, and you should probably just stop posting in this thread and let the people who aren't going to waste time fapping about pointless sophistry do the big-people talking. You know, the things which actually help people improve, rather than verbally ejaculating about herp derp derp it's just a humanity subject it's not objective that means nothing matters and there's no actual definition herp derp derp.

Because, you know, by your definitions the English language is a subjective thing. What one person says words mean and what another person says is neither right or wrong. Saying there is an actual definition is misleading.

So I'm not actually calling you an ignoramus who's not contributing anything worthwhile to the conversation, because the subjective nature of English means that you have no idea if your purely subjective understanding of the language is at all related to what I subjectively meant. Incidentally, you should probably go ignore all laws in your relevant jurisdiction, because laws aren't objective - they're just a subjective product of human interactions and they're not real and you don't need to follow them if you don't want to. Oh, and economics isn't objective, so the global recession didn't really happen.

Or maybe you could even stop being a moron who's being actively useless in a thread trying to discuss the purpose of the setting in a narrative. You could stop flinging your shit into the conversation, and accept that merely because certain standards of human behaviour are not grounded in hard physical laws does not make them worthless.
First calm down. Second I posted several times what I thought a setting was. So I have contributed. Third calm down.
 
This is a vital difference to understand, and I very much urge you to read further on aesthetics and the use of settings in narratives, because it's a simply fascinating topic that I honestly think you'll get a lot out of.
So anyway, do you have a recommended reading list I could take a look at? Some material to refer to would be wonderful, but I have only a faint idea where to look.
 
Okay, so that's just settled it.

You have no idea what you're talking about, and you should probably just stop posting in this thread and let the people who aren't going to waste time fapping about pointless sophistry do the big-people talking. You know, the things which actually help people improve, rather than verbally ejaculating about herp derp derp it's just a humanity subject it's not objective that means nothing matters and there's no actual definition herp derp derp.

Because, you know, by your definitions the English language is a subjective thing. What one person says words mean and what another person says is neither right or wrong. Saying there is an actual definition is misleading.

So I'm not actually calling you an ignoramus who's not contributing anything worthwhile to the conversation, because the subjective nature of English means that you have no idea if your purely subjective understanding of the language is at all related to what I subjectively meant. Incidentally, you should probably go ignore all laws in your relevant jurisdiction, because laws aren't objective - they're just a subjective product of human interactions and they're not real and you don't need to follow them if you don't want to. Oh, and economics isn't objective, so the global recession didn't really happen.

Or maybe you could even stop being a moron who's being actively useless in a thread trying to discuss the purpose of the setting in a narrative. You could stop flinging your shit into the conversation, and accept that merely because certain standards of human behaviour are not grounded in hard physical laws does not make them worthless.

This post is so salty that doctors are currently arguing about whether or not the previous consensus that it causes hypertension is correct. You are eminently capable of making the point you were endeavouring to make without personally attacking VolantRedX. Furthermore, this isn't a case of a bit of invective scattered throughout an otherwise substantive post; the majority of your post consists of personal attacks.

Consequently, you've been infracted, and I've given you a day's time out from the thread. I hope this won't happen again.
 
I've actually read several great tales where the story is almost about the setting. It's tough to pull off, but fully possible to make the exploration of a wild world the primary aspect with what you normally think of as a plot being the background. Neal Stephenson tends to be great at this.

I've also seen it done extremely poorly by otherwise great authors such as in The Long Earth.
 
So anyway, do you have a recommended reading list I could take a look at? Some material to refer to would be wonderful, but I have only a faint idea where to look.
I'm on my phone at the moment, but, hm.

A generic example would be American Gods. It eschews building a coherent location for building atmosphere and tone, focusing on metaphor and imagery to build up ideas, places, times. It's not the best example, but if you give it a read-through with an eye for how it builds up its atmosphere and such, you'l get a good grasp for how it handles its setting.

Alternately, above, I mentioned The Casual Vacancy. It's a very flawed story, but it's a fantastic example of how to use social and cultural contexts to form a particular atmosphere. Don't read it for the plot or amything, bit look how it built up Pagford as a setting, and how the town's history and atmosphere influence the characters and events within the narrative.

But honestlt? I'm not the person to ask for a reading list. I live in Australia, the Land of Price Gouging. If you want a decent reading list, try asking @Aleph or @EarthScorpion.

No, if you want to ask me where to learn this stuff, my advice is- look away from fiction. Study history, cultures. Examine how historical events influenced prople, influenced cultures, influenced later historical events. Look at people, and how things like environs and social pressure influence them.

Look to noir novels. Look to cyberpunk. Look to, yes, decent erotica, which uses atmosphere and often social pressures to fantastic effect.
 
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