Remove ads

(Warhammer) The Emperor's background and the issue with him wanting to be a god

Status
Not open for further replies.
I must also raise questions about the point of this bizarre thread and its surreal tangents.

Like...

Why?
 
Alex said:
What the fuck are you even arguing at this point? Like what are you trying to say or advocate? Because closest I got is trying to defend Emps because he "disapproved" of angron slaughtering entire populations. And that is incredibly stupid and pathetic on its face.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I think "no." nailed it.

no. said:
I understand you. You grew up with 40k as very formative media, you're closely attached to it, and when 40k fans started getting hired as GW writers, when they caused the setting to pivot away from satire, to lionize the Imperium as protagonists, you were pulled along. You didn't fully conceptualize what was going on because you don't think of 40k like you do other media, right? So to you, sympathetic readings of the Imperium are essentially fact, because that's just how it is. Except, it's not. Critical readings of your formative media are just as valid as your own readings; you can't just dismiss them out of hand, and you don't know how to deal with that. You feel frustrated that other people don't get it, but the fact of the matter is not everyone feels the same kind of nostalgic obligatory attachment to 40k that you do. Please understand that, although you have personally connected this work to your identity, no one is attacking you. They're not thinking of 40k, the thing that is very important to killer565. They're thinking of 40k, the fictional scifi media franchise by Games Workshop.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Sabertooth said:
Well, CannonEmp is an asshole, TTSD Emp while an asshole, has some reedeeming qualities (he was genuienly horrified and angry at the Inquisition, actually cares for regular humans, forgave the entire population of Krieg on whim, is willing to let xenos live and also willing to welcome back his lost sons). He is still an asshole, but he cares about people.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
please don't reference random fanfics like they're relevant to a debate about the Emperor's character
 
Alex said:
What the fuck are you even arguing at this point? Like what are you trying to say or advocate? Because closest I got is trying to defend Emps because he "disapproved" of angron slaughtering entire populations. And that is incredibly stupid and pathetic on its face.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Mostly that it was Angron who murdered planets and most Legions did not.

Damon Prytanis said Curze is a maniac. That should tell you much since Damon Prytanis assassinated Martin Luther King Jr.
 
Mental Omega said:
I must also raise questions about the point of this bizarre thread and its surreal tangents.

Like...

Why?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

What we went to talk about is not what I put up this thread for, though you all went on to talk about it and so I went with it. I talked about the Emperor's background and what Erebus said about him for this thread.
 
killer565 said:
Mostly that it was Angron who murdered planets and most Legions did not.

Damon Prytanis said Curze is a maniac. That should tell you much since Damon Prytanis assassinated Martin Luther King Jr.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
1) It doesn't really matter if the other legions didn't massacre as many people as the world eaters or if they disapproved of his methods. The point is no one, not even the emperor who totally had authority to stop him, stoppled him. Emps and the rest are complicit in Angrons murder even if they wagged their fingers at him.

2)even completely discounting Angron and Kurze the forces of the emperor during the great crusade were murderous conquering assholes who committed genocide against xenos and abhumans. They are still terrible people even completely subtracting the actions of Angron or Kurze.
 
Chlof said:
Holy shit, this is actually canon. That's hilarious. I knew that 40k canon could get extremely dumb, but I didn't think they'd do that.
"Uhh, how do we make this guy seem super evil?"
"I dunno, have him kill MLK?"
"Fucking Genius."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And according to the wiki, probably Robert F. Kennedy as well.
 
This thread is honestly making me regret getting back into 40k. I just like painting my army men and robots and throwing dice with people at the game shop. Not all the fascist apologia.
 
Last edited:
Alex said:
This thread is honestly making me regret getting back into 40k. I just like painting my army men and robots and throwing dice with people at the game shop. Not all the facist apologia.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I watch and love Family Guy, which is bigoted as shit, but has my favorite dark humor around. It's seriously fine to like flawed stuff. 40k has a really neat style you never see anywhere else, and the games are classic and widely played for good reason. If you have fun with it, keep playing with your friends at the game shop. All that can be fairly asked of you is that you be aware of the nastier parts of the setting, so you can know what it's trying to say, and what it's accidentally saying. Anyone who tries to tell you you're a bad person for having fun with it, or should stop playing entirely, is full of shit.
 
This thread is like, peak Watsonian Galaxy Brain.
 
Alex said:
2)even completely discounting Angron and Kurze the forces of the emperor during the great crusade were murderous conquering assholes who committed genocide against xenos and abhumans. They are still terrible people even completely subtracting the actions of Angron or Kurze.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
At least in Angron's case he did not pretend he was anything other than what he really was : a butcher

"
You are free, Leman Russ of Fenris, because your freedoms match the Emperor's will. For each time I wage war against worlds that threaten the Imperium's advance, there comes another time I am told to conquer peaceful worlds that wish only to be left alone. I am told to destroy whole civilizations and call it liberation. I am told to demand millions of men and women from these new worlds, to make them take up arms in the Emperor's hordes, and I am told to call this a tithe, or recruitment, because we are all too scared of the truth. We refuse to call it slavery.'



' I am loyal, the same as you. I am told to bathe my legion in the blood of innocents and sinners alike, and I do it, because it is all that's left for me in this life. I do these things, and I enjoy them, not because we are moral, or right - or loving souls seeking to enlighten a dark universe - but because all I feel are the Butcher's Nails hammered into my brain. I serve because of this "mutilation". Without it? Well, perhaps I might be a more moral man, like you claim to be. A virtuous man, eh? Perhaps I might ascend the steps to our father's palace and take the slaving bastard's head."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Angron to Leman Russ
 
Alex said:
This thread is honestly making me regret getting back into 40k. I just like painting my army men and robots and throwing dice with people at the game shop. Not all the facist apologia.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Kaiya said:
I watch and love Family Guy, which is bigoted as shit, but has my favorite dark humor around. It's seriously fine to like flawed stuff. 40k has a really neat style you never see anywhere else, and the games are classic and widely played for good reason. If you have fun with it, keep playing with your friends at the game shop. All that can be fairly asked of you is that you be aware of the nastier parts of the setting, so you can know what it's trying to say, and what it's accidentally saying. Anyone who tries to tell you you're a bad person for having fun with it, or should stop playing entirely, is full of shit.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That's why things like TTSD and why its so popular are actually kinda relevant IMO. If you talk about the fandom, not the source canon. It means that a lot of other fans are also not just going along with accepting the facist apologia stuff seriously and you are not alone.
 
Iron Roby said:
That's why things like TTSD and why its so popular are actually kinda relevant IMO. If you talk about the fandom, not the source canon. It means that a lot of other fans are also not just going along with accepting the facist apologia stuff seriously and you are not alone.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
TTS has also pretty much become the actual canon for many people (myself included)
 
StarMaker764 said:
TTS has also pretty much become the actual canon for many people (myself included)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Iron Roby said:
That's why things like TTSD and why its so popular are actually kinda relevant IMO. If you talk about the fandom, not the source canon. It means that a lot of other fans are also not just going along with accepting the facist apologia stuff seriously and you are not alone.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You can't rely on that in actual discussion of the setting though, and shouldn't. You can't assume everyone has read, or even would like if they did, whatever fanfic informs your head canon, and can't argue predicated on its presentation. Like, I'm a 40k fan. I read Emp's text to speech, and I hated it. Never saw the appeal. It's...just some fanfic, and one I didn't like, to boot. When trying to quote fanworks, you'll run into a lot of that, and even more "I never read this/okay but it's just a fanfic even if its good".
 
Kaiya said:
You can't rely on that in actual discussion of the setting though, and shouldn't. You can't assume everyone has read, or even would like if they did, whatever fanfic informs your head canon, and can't argue predicated on its presentation. Like, I'm a 40k fan. I read Emp's text to speech, and I hated it. Never saw the appeal. It's...just some fanfic, and one I didn't like, to boot. When trying to quote fanworks, you'll run into a lot of that, and even more "I never read this/okay but it's just a fanfic even if its good".
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Hey, I agree. Just that in the context, when you can say stuff like "hey, this work can be read as an edgy apologia for a lot of awful stuff" then the question of "well, how awful is its fandom then?" is not actually that easily separated from it.

And what tone do the most popular works of the fandom have can tell you a lot about the fandom. For me, for example, TTSD legit made the fandom and thus indirectly the whole wh40k seem like a little more welcoming place again.
 
Violation of Rule 2 - advocating/cheering on genocide
Alex said:
This thread is honestly making me regret getting back into 40k. I just like painting my army men and robots and throwing dice with people at the game shop. Not all the facist apologia.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well, it makes me like watching and reading the battles from a sadist point of view. Imperial forces get massacred by the millions? Imperial worlds get wiped out in hilarious dark way (like evil sentient factories)? Who gives a shit, they are evil.

Heck, I always get a kick when a Cardinal World gets wiped out.
 
Last edited:
killer565 said:
Mostly that it was Angron who murdered planets and most Legions did not.

Damon Prytanis said Curze is a maniac. That should tell you much since Damon Prytanis assassinated Martin Luther King Jr.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I don't...

Why?

Why does any of this matter?

What point are you even trying to make? What is the purpose of this strange thread and all of its twisting and turning tangents that go to nowhere? What are you trying to accomplish here? Please tell me because I have no idea how to engage with you.
 
StarMaker764 said:
At least in Angron's case he did not pretend he was anything other than what he really was : a butcher

"

Angron to Leman Russ
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

A quote that is from Betrayer and contradicts with my quote from Age of Darkness. Angron was much more ruthless than other Legions, and other books about the invasion of Calth show the traitors went too far when slaughtering innocents. Angron is a hypocrite. Other Legions did not slaughter planets for putting up a fight as he did.

You as well need context.

Compare Horus Rising where it is showed most humans before the Interex were oppressed.

I can pull out a bunch of different quotes as the one I used from Age of Darkness.

"Never afraid of extreme measures, Angron had let slip his World Eaters in the most vicious way imaginable. Remus had once heard his primarch say that Angron's Legion could succeed where all others would fail because the Red Angel was willing to go further than any other Legion, to countenance behaviour that any civilised code of war would deem abhorrent. Seeing what had been done to Prandium, Remus understood completely. This was no honourable war, this was butchery and destruction embodied. The primarch's great work could surely never have contemplated war with so terrible a face." Pg.32 Age of Darkness
 
Last edited:
Again, does it matter how you eradicate entire species? Like, does doing it 'honorably' make it better?

Honestly, @killer565 maybe consider why you're so intent on hyping up the genocidal madman?
 
41 more messages…
Status
Not open for further replies.
Remove ads
Back
Top