The Victorian
Elven Supremacist
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Did things really get that bad? (I haven't touched the Star Trek EU since I was in high school)
Unnamed Star Trek Sequel Series starring Patrick Stewart
Did things really get that bad? (I haven't touched the Star Trek EU since I was in high school)
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
Mal-3
Fun Tyrant
In a lot of ways it started bad. What I'm pretty sure @AKuz is referencing comes from the early '00s novels back when they started assembling the EU into a coherent timeline instead of a bunch of standalones loosely in continuity with the show. Long story short, Section 31 went from a shadowy maybe-not-kosher group with Starfleet to the Hard Man Illuminati keeping the Federation upright. Usually via murder of one sort or another.[1]
After a decade-plus of intermittent nonsense like this, the line editor finally got tired of it and decreed that they were wrapping Section 31 up as an agency. But even then they had to get off one last according-to-keikaku. From the Memory Beta summary of the (currently) last Section 31 book:
Article: All Section 31 personnel throughout the quadrant are arrested but unknown to anyone, Control has survived the destruction of Uraei in some form, having deduced the Federation will now work better without Section 31 and engineered the whole thing.
The STEU, ladies and gentlemen. A round of applause, please.
[1] Which always annoyed me, because the whole Section-31-murder-plot thing led into one of my favorite STEU novels, Articles of Federation. It's like Star Trek: The West Wing, fantastic stuff if you like that kind of breezy political dramedy.
That would actually be an interesting series-not sure it could be sustained for more than a short run of a few episodes though-it could be a web series-basically, the inner workings of the Federation.
"Coming up this week, the President has a fight on her hands to get her Warp Field Damage Reduction bill through the council, and the Andorian Delegation cause a diplomatic incident at a state dinner..."
Zap Rowsdower
Ex-cultist vagrant
- Location
- Bright lights, big city
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The Klingons were a metaphor for the Soviets - down to the alliance with the Federation happening as thawing of relations between the US and the USSR happened IRL.
Today, relations between the US and Russia are cooling again, with bitter resentments and terrible deeds of spywork.
Star Trek is nothing if not Talking About Topic Issues Via Metaphor.
I'm curious to see what they do with the Klingons, particularly if Worf returns and is portrayed sympathetically at the same time.
Today, relations between the US and Russia are cooling again, with bitter resentments and terrible deeds of spywork.
Star Trek is nothing if not Talking About Topic Issues Via Metaphor.
I'm curious to see what they do with the Klingons, particularly if Worf returns and is portrayed sympathetically at the same time.
AKuz
Been Better
- Location
- A Rising Tide of Horrors
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yes.
IIRC, right now there is a battle between two all powerful AI to control the Federation. A "Good" one and a S31 created "Bad" one.
Whichever one wins, the Federation's Democracy will continue to be a sham because everything will be run by a mechanical god. The writers don't seem to see the problem with this.
AKuz
Been Better
- Location
- A Rising Tide of Horrors
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Honestly, as far as S31 goes.
I like the idea that we briefly put forward in To Boldly Go... where Section 31 is sort of like the Federation/Starfleet version of Sovereign Citizens.
People that look at Section 31 of the Federation constitution and go "That could be us! We're smart enough! We know what that legal term means, our interpretation is completely correct."
So every couple of generations when things get hard, some HARD MEN get together and go "Right, it's up to us to save the Federation"
Which works thematically because Starfleet officers have this failure state where they're taught to Do The Right Thing No Matter The Cost. So you get all the Badmirals who do what it takes to do the morally correct thing, and also the onscreen S31 who emerged during the Dominion war and used S31 as an excuse to do an end run around the Constitution to fight the war "Better".
I like the idea that we briefly put forward in To Boldly Go... where Section 31 is sort of like the Federation/Starfleet version of Sovereign Citizens.
People that look at Section 31 of the Federation constitution and go "That could be us! We're smart enough! We know what that legal term means, our interpretation is completely correct."
So every couple of generations when things get hard, some HARD MEN get together and go "Right, it's up to us to save the Federation"
Which works thematically because Starfleet officers have this failure state where they're taught to Do The Right Thing No Matter The Cost. So you get all the Badmirals who do what it takes to do the morally correct thing, and also the onscreen S31 who emerged during the Dominion war and used S31 as an excuse to do an end run around the Constitution to fight the war "Better".
Crimson Flight
华裔机甲迷
- Location
- Victoria, Australia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
S31 in STO has always been my favourite portrayal of S31, even though sometimes they seem just like Starfleet Intelligence but with a solar system hidden away just in case you need to slingshot back into the past.
AKuz
Been Better
- Location
- A Rising Tide of Horrors
- Pronouns
- She/Her
STO gives the impression that Starfleet Intelligence has been completely replaced by S31 wearing a SI skinsuit and *everyone* foreign and domestic is just sort of humouring them.
Crimson Flight
华裔机甲迷
- Location
- Victoria, Australia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The Undine can't infiltrate what's already been infiltrated!
The destruction of Romulus isn't a major outrage-there are plenty of canon examples of planets and stars being destroyed or nearly destroyed, or heavily damaged-Sisko and the Dominion had no issues rendering life on entire planets unliveable, and Soran fairly easily blew up that star-the major lunacy was imploding Vulcan 'for the lols '.
Fortunately Vulcan is in the Kelvin verse so can be ignored. Infacthe, as hinted at in STO, the new show could have the underlying backdrop to the new show being the fact that the destruction of Romulus was not a natural event but a deliberate action by some sort of government or organisation.
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Arthur Frayn
Fake God by Occupation, Magician by Inclination
- Location
- Land of Do As You Please
- Pronouns
- They/Him
People know that random ass YouTubers spouting random ass rumors aren't valid sources of info, right?
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
I'm sorry you hate quality entertainment.
Also, the timeline can be discarded, as far as I'm concerned.
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AKuz
Been Better
- Location
- A Rising Tide of Horrors
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The destruction of Romulus is kinda a bigger deal than the offscreen destruction of some place that was invented for that single line.
The destruction of Romulus, like that of Vulcan was a cheap and ultimately unnecessary move from hack writers who understood the universe less than the talentless fuckwits behind Nemesis.
(nuTrek should have started at Beyond or something similar rather than wasting time on a pointless timewasting origin story and Wrath of Khan except wrongbad and badwrong. They just had to make a neat sci fi story and go "This happens during the latter two years of Kirk's FYM after ToS ends." And then just go "Modern budget visuals, deal with it" when someone asks why it looks different)
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slybrarian
Creature of Fable
- Location
- A Far and Sunless Land
- Pronouns
- He/Him
These are the same idiots who claimed the Discovery would be in the Kelvin timeline because CBS doesn't own the license to TOS, and later that Disco was so bad that the studio was going to can it entirely rather than let it air. Needless to say, they've been wrong about pretty much everything they say.
I agree that blowing up Romulus, especially as basically a one-off line to support an entirely new timeline, was a bad decision. We're probably stuck with it, though. I hope that if we get Romulans in this series we can finally get a focus on Romulan culture, the same way we've gotten in depth with the Klingons and Cardassians. The destruction of Romulus itself, leaving the rest of the Empire intact, could be a good impetus to explore what Romulans think it means to be Romulan.
BunBun299
Killer Rabbit
I watch them quite frequently. Not every video they put out, but often enough when they cover subject matter I'm interested in. They never said any of those things. Quite the opposite, they went into detail about how Discovery could never be Kelvin for the opposite reason, CBS doesn't own the rights to Kelvin.
Most things I've seen Midnight's Edge talk about turn out to be pretty accurate.
- Location
- Infraspace
What if Nero is a remnant from a separate timeline like Yesterday's Enterprise Tasha Yar? Romulus blows up –> Nero and Spock go back in time to form alternate timeline –> Picard/other character goes back in time and saves Romulus. Then STO is also in an alternative timeline and they can continue to do whatever they want.
So we have:
- Prime timeline
- Alternate timeline; splits in 2233
- STO timeline; splits in 2387
AKuz
Been Better
- Location
- A Rising Tide of Horrors
- Pronouns
- She/Her
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
*cough*
I endorse this position and/or concept
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
You could watch Discovery on Netflix if your IP address was not in the United States, so I assume that the same will be true with this show.
Vulcan is explicitly not destroyed in Discovery, so it seems that the TV shows are only using some of the aesthetics of the Abrams movies and flipping the bird to their continuity.
I hadn't really read any since I was a kid in the previous century, but I went back to read the DS9 Relaunch series (which was generally pretty good). After that I read the Destiny trilogy--which felt like one of those crappy DC Comics Crisis Crossovers where they trash the setting for cheap shock value--and the first Typhon Pact novel and... yeah, they were kind of crap.
I'm cool with going back to the TNG era, but I'd rather follow up on DS9 than TNG because that series had a lot of unfinished business and I feel like TNG was pretty thoroughly resolved.
- Location
- Central Standard Time
*makes note for when I actually can afford Netflix*You could watch Discovery on Netflix if your IP address was not in the United States, so I assume that the same will be true with this show.
slybrarian
Creature of Fable
- Location
- A Far and Sunless Land
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Specifically, Discovery is set in the Prime Universe, the same as all the other TV shows. The Picard show also will be in the prime universe. Vulcan is safe, the only question is about the poor Romulans.
I dont really think they are going to bring back Romulus unless they explicitly decide to throw the entirety of Abrams movies under the bus canonically speaking-as it stands, the destruction of Romulus happened in the prime timeline, and unless directly contradicted in the Picard show, for example by starting episode 1, season 1, on Romulus, with the date plastered on the screen AFTER the place is supposed to have been destroyed, nothing is going to change that.