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Unbound (Homeworld/Mass Effect)

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Anti-No said:
So going by Mass Effect canon, eezo most definitely did not form naturally in the way the Codex says it does, but in some other (unknown) fashion? Fair.

It could be a sideefect of a special type of magical coral reefs for all we know.
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...Or asteroid remnants from a planet destroyed by a supernova sent spiraling through space for thousands to millions of years impacted the Leviathan's home planet before they evolved.

You don't have to immediately jump to "The codex is wrong."
 
Shadow Archon said:
You don't have to immediately jump to "The codex is wrong."
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Yes I do, when the codex says something so utterly crazy as "stuff stays in orbit around the core of the sun that went supernova".

I know, 100%, that the codex is wrong. The only questions are how it's wrong, to what extent, and who or what benefited from it being wrong.
 
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Anti-No said:
Yes I do, when the codex says something so utterly crazy as "astroids stay in orbit around the core of the sun that went supernova".

I know, 100%, that the codex is wrong. The only question is how it's wrong, to what extent, and who or what benefited from it being wrong.
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In this case I believe the answer is the Bioware writer who thought special supernova space transmutation sounded cool. Also, as I noted large masses can remain in orbit; some might break up as a result.

If eezo occurs naturally, why would the Reapers go out of their way to seed the most hostile environments in the galaxy to make it seem like eezo came from novas?
 
Anti-No said:
Yes I do, when the codex says something so utterly crazy as "astroids stay in orbit around the core of the sun that went supernova".

I know, 100%, that the codex is wrong. The only question is how it's wrong, to what extent, and who or what benefited from it being wrong.
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Which is entirely possible depending upon what created the asteroids and how. Supernovas are incredibly energetic, but they suffer just as much from the inverse square law as anything else. Distant planets or even gas giants can survive relatively intact depending upon how much energy they get hit with. There's a perfect range where the rocky core of a Gas giant can be shattered into an asteroid field, but not ejected from the system. Pulsars, white dwarfs, and neutron stars have planets orbiting them in real life, so it's not impossible in Mass Effect. Worst case, the planets that get ejected from a supernova system can just be captured by other stars millennia later, and thus have safe Eezo deposits to mine.

And guess what, canon can say things that are literally impossible in reality and get away with it. Because FTL is impossible going by special relativity, and breaking the conservation of energy is a violation of our understanding of thermodynamics. Eezo lets you do both. Why is one an acceptable misunderstanding of science that we just nod along with and one isn't?
 
What if the Reapers tossed some Eezo rich astroids into the orbit of Neutron stars to obfuscate how Eezo ACTUALLY naturally occured? To prevent species from being able to artificially create more, limiting the supply, thus weakening the races when the harvest comes?
 
StarRunner01 said:
What if the Reapers tossed some Eezo rich astroids into the orbit of Neutron stars to obfuacate how Eezo ACTUALLY naturally occured? To prevent species from being able to artificially create more, limiting the supply, thus weakening the races when the harvest comes?
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This is you right now. Not everything is a Reaper plot. Not everything is part of Indoctrination. Stop with the conspiracy theories.

Given the Codex is background information that isn't given in-universe, you can pretty much consider it a 3rd person omniscient source. Everything it says is correct and factual about the Mass Effect universe.
 
StarRunner01 said:
I thought the Codex was in-universe.
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It's accessed through the Game menu, and not once mentioned by the actual characters in-universe. There's no reason to assume it's in-universe information that can be treated with bias or skepticism. We get in-depth knowledge on how different Reaper constructs work too, often before anyone else in universe knows what they are as well: Husks, Banshees, Scions, etc.
 
Anti-No said:
So going by Mass Effect canon, eezo most definitely did not originally form naturally in the way the Codex says it does, but in some other (unknown) fashion? Fair.

It could have been a sideefect of a special type of magical coral reefs for all we know. Or some weird case of pollution from the landbound races industry.
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Or, going back to the story, eezo is a waste product from the Great Core Hyperdrive manufacturing process. In HW, there are only three, and no one understands how they were made, not even the Bentusi.

Perhaps creating hyperdrives produces a toxic form of strange matter and, over centuries/millennia it degrades into a more stable form; eezo.

The Leviathans might have evolved on a waste processing/dumping site and got stupidly lucky.
TSBasilisk said:
In this case I believe the answer is the Bioware writer who thought special supernova space transmutation sounded cool. Also, as I noted large masses can remain in orbit; some might break up as a result.

If eezo occurs naturally, why would the Reapers go out of their way to seed the most hostile environments in the galaxy to make it seem like eezo came from novas?
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Eezo has properties that resemble strange matter. The only place strange matter naturally forms is inside neutron stars.

Ergo, it is probably likely, imo, that the Reapers mine the neutron stars for eezo, then scatter that about. Hence why we see so much in asteroids floating around neutron stars - it's an easy place for Reapers to store it.
 
Or Bioware writers read about strange matter and decided to make a counterpart material which doesn't violently convert all other material into more of itself on contact and is likely incapable of existing outside of the massive gravitational pressure of a neutron star's core.
 
Mgunh1 said:
There's one kink in all of this.

The Leviathans.

I.e., the race that created the Reapers and the earliest known biotics.

Their simple existence indicates that somehow eezo deposits collected naturally on their world and in such quantities that their entire race was capable of biotic abilities, of which the infamous indoctrination is one. Through this, they posed as God like beings to the land dwelling sapients of their Homeworld, enslaved them and eventually used them to to build their space ship suits and go a-conquering.

(Admittedly, now that I write this out, I get the feeling one of the Devs played Sword Of The Stars and really liked the Liir. Anywho...)

So we have at least one 100% confirmed account of natural eezo formations. On a inhabited world no less.
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The great thing with this crossover is "the Progenitors did it" is a valid reason.
 
TSBasilisk said:
Or Bioware writers read about strange matter and decided to make a counterpart material which doesn't violently convert all other material into more of itself on contact and is likely incapable of existing outside of the massive gravitational pressure of a neutron star's core.
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Toxic Doylist reasoning is toxic.

Also, no. That's not what happened at all. Back in the early 2000s, strange matter was a fringe concept at best.
And let's be honest, Bioware's writers have the same grasp on physics as your average 10 year old. Let's not give them too much credit.
 
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Here's an out there theory:

If supernovas do in fact create Eezo, there is a distinct possibility that the Reapers are periodically causing stars to prematurely and artificially go supernova, so as to have a constant supply of Eezo to both seed the galaxy for the next cycle and to have enough Eezo on hand to build new Reapers from the people slurries at the end of a cycle.

Remember Haestrom? According to Tali in ME2, the star is aging far faster than it should be, with significant amounts of dark energy detected; ei, the stuff Eezo manipulates to effect gravity. Could the reapers be aiming to make Haestrom go Nova so they can both harvest the Eezo *and* wipe out a good chunk of the Geth once the cycle ends?
 
Guardsman_Sparky said:
Here's an out there theory:

If supernovas do in fact create Eezo, there is a distinct possibility that the Reapers are periodically causing stars to prematurely and artificially go supernova, so as to have a constant supply of Eezo to both seed the galaxy for the next cycle and to have enough Eezo on hand to build new Reapers from the people slurries at the end of a cycle.

Remember Haestrom? According to Tali in ME2, the star is aging far faster than it should be, with significant amounts of dark energy detected; ei, the stuff Eezo manipulates to effect gravity. Could the reapers be aiming to make Haestrom go Nova so they can both harvest the Eezo *and* wipe out a good chunk of the Geth once the cycle ends?
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One of the biggest theories about the setting before ME3 was actually the opposite. That Reapers purged the races of the galaxy because Eezo in large enough and active concentrations caused stars to prematurely age. They would clean up the younger races, destroy every bit of technology they made, make the Relays and Citadel dormant again, and wait in Dark Space before the next time they had to do it all over again.

Of course that was not the case in the finale, but it was definitely more interesting than the Synthetic vs Organic conflict the writers settled on.
 
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Bro this is awesome, I only got into Homeworld because of Mandalore's video but the lore and setting of Homeworld is great.
 
Why are people arguing that eezo being produced in supernovas is not true because of real world physics?

By that logic Homeworld Hyperspace is an entirely artificial layer of reality because our real world physics does not allow for its existence.
 
Mannan said:
Why are people arguing that eezo being produced in supernovas is not true because of real world physics?

By that logic Homeworld Hyperspace is an entirely artificial layer of reality because our real world physics does not allow for its existence.
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because mass effect presented itself as hard Sci-Fi except for the one big lie that was eezo
 
Mannan said:
Why are people arguing that eezo being produced in supernovas is not true because of real world physics?
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Actually, not arguing against it possibly mystically happening in supernovas. But arguing against it happening in supernovas and then the end result mainly being present in astroids orbiting the remains of the star closely enough to be dangerous to harvest from. Start with a gas giant at least 100 AU out from the star, and there is a tiny chance that instead of the grilled remains getting yeeted into interstellar space, the grilled remains could end up in an orbit even further out. But honestly, all that means is that "some of the information presented to the players is wrong". As it almost has to be, in a high-tech society with an enormous longtime mystery.

What were the game developers supposed to do? Spill the Reaper plot in the Eezo description in the Codex? It sounds to me that if they had to put something there - and basic information "everyone knows" about Eezo definitely qualifies - putting the "official truth" there would be the reasonable thing to do.
Thorgon said:
because mass effect presented itself as hard Sci-Fi except for the one big lie that was eezo
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True.
Guardsman_Sparky said:
Everyone in-universe thought it was hard sci-fi. Not their fault they didn't recognize magical space bullshitium when they saw it.
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The moment "touch telepathy and skill transfers between people of different alien races who don't know each others languages" and "ranged life steal" abilities started popping up, both supposedly based on "manipulating the the amount of apparent mass in items", they really should have realised they were in a magic setting, yes.
SegaCD said:
I thought it was a space opera?
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I think I prefer Wagner to Mass Effect 3 writing.
 
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Open Beta Call
  • Informational
    • For the next 3 hours or so, consider this early access for the final prologue chapter. Point out any glaring mistakes to me, stuff that doesn't make sense, things that are too weird or incomprehensible, you all get the idea. If you do suggest an edit, please remember to leave your name (and if I forget to include your name amongst the beta readers, remind me - I like to give credit where credit is due and I think I might've forgotten a couple of names when I posted the previous chapter).
     
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  • Informational
    • This story is only 2 chapters, but it was enough for me to go buy the Homeworld RM collection and the Deserts of Kharak prequel. I remember playing Homeworld not long after it came out in '99. Still the best RTS I've ever played. When those strings hit. Shivers down the spine.
     
    Geas said:
    For the next 3 hours or so, consider this early access for the final prologue chapter. Point out any glaring mistakes to me, stuff that doesn't make sense, things that are too weird or incomprehensible, you all get the idea. If you do suggest an edit, please remember to leave your name (and if I forget to include your name amongst the beta readers, remind me - I like to give credit where credit is due and I think I might've forgotten a couple of names when I posted the previous chapter).
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    I love it. It brings back great memories. Is that a Progenitor Seed Ship accompanying Sajuuk? When the Citadel Races see that recording the Turians are fucked. They may even lose their full membership. An unknown FTL and hundreds of SSD (older Scifi naming convention for Super Dreadnought, SD is Dreadnought) appearing with two ships larger than the Citadel. With the carriers disgorging more SD, BB and smaller ships as they emerge from Hyperspace.

    :lol::rofl:

    The terror that image unleashes will be beautiful.
     
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