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To Shield the World (Warhammer High Elf Mage Quest)

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Voikirium said:
-Tier 3: Manticore Claw (Bearing the savage nature of the manticore, mostly useful for weapons)

-Plan out your sword, not proper construction yet
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I'm thinking something that kills quickly and cleanly without bloodthirst or sadism.

The unflinching certainty of Ghur aiming for the kill merged with the insightful sureness of Azyr showing when and where to strike.

Blows aimed as perfectly as those of a striking hawk, leaving the enemy no opportunity to escape or to try to drag us down with them in their final moments.
 
Ashmaker said:
I'm thinking something that kills quickly and cleanly without bloodthirst or sadism.

The unflinching certainty of Ghur aiming for the kill merged with the insightful sureness of Azyr showing when and where to strike.

Blows aimed as perfectly as those of a striking hawk, leaving the enemy no opportunity to escape or to try to drag us down with them in their final moments.
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Well, while I am not sure just how enchanting works, but considering that we are, most probably, aiming to use the Manticore claw as the basis for the blade, I'd think that going with the grain rather than against the grain would make a better blade.

The Claw of the Manticore is filled with the bestial savagery of the beast, which is why I recommended an enchantment that would rend and tear with each slash. In my mind, such an enchantment would be reinforced by the inherent nature of the material itself, while additional enchantments of Azyr would allow the blade to strike swiftly.

The end product I envision would be a saber that flashes like lightning and always strikes first, rending flesh from bone, leaving the enemy crippled from a single strike, in pain and unable to retaliate.

Is it a bit bloody and savage? Yes. But it fits the material and it fits the Wind of Fang and Claws, as well.
 
OzymandiasAgain said:
The end product I envision would be a saber that flashes like lightning and always strikes first, rending flesh from bone, leaving the enemy crippled from a single strike, in pain and unable to retaliate.

Is it a bit bloody and savage? Yes. But it fits the material and it fits the Wind of Fang and Claws, as well.
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What you're suggesting is a weapon fit for a Druchii.

I think that is all need to say to express my disapproval.
 
If it wasn't for me being leery of copying a previous enchantment, I'd say just do a stronger version of Methelian's sword, like one that last's longer or can be used a couple of times in quick succession.

I suppose if we wanted to take advantage of our current level of Archmage training we could use it but add an Azyr component to make it reactive in case of sudden danger? But then that's edging into the ideas that were being tossed around for a defensive Ghur/Azyr enchantment for the White Lion cloak.
 
The reconciliation or at least the baby steps of it was interesting. Vardanis's parents where trying to give him independence because that's what they thought he wanted and because his dad didn't really have it so they overcompensated. Vardanis was always a different with his interest in magic, antisocial tendencies, and his worship of Asuryan so they thought that giving him independence before something ruined their relationship was the smartest move. Also I love that he just barges into his parents room while they are chilling because he doesn't want to screw around and just decided to be straightforward and honest about stuff. It's so in character for him and wonderful.

Hunting for materials went wonderfully with a manticore and phoenix showing up. The description of the phoenix was beautiful. Also given Vardanis's dreams about Phoenixes and Manticores and his struggle between Khaine and Asuryan it was really fitting, also it probably means Vardanis has a knack for prophetic dreaming. The materials are really good, I think using Manticore Claw for the sword and the phoenix feather for the staff is the best choice.

I'm happy the understanding of Azyr is completed and Sky Seeker has been upgraded into Sky Servant. I'm also happy at Vardanis's conviction to try and make the world a better place. It feels like he's found happiness in that choice which is great.
 
Ashmaker said:
What you're suggesting is a weapon fit for a Druchii.

I think that is all need to say to express my disapproval.
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A Weapon is a weapon. By your analogy, a warhammer is the most vicious weapon you could think of, actually. It easily shatters bone and injures internal organs. But I don't see anyone disparaging Ghal Maraz as only fit for Orcs or something.

A weapon is judged by at whom it is aimed and how it is wielded. Not by it's effects.
 
OzymandiasAgain said:
A weapon is judged by at whom it is aimed and how it is wielded. Not by it's effects.
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I don't disagree with your overall point, but I would quibble with this.

If a weapon caused unnecessary excessive amounts of pain (without any other purpose but sadism), corrupted their minds and/or souls, or enslaved peoples souls after slaying them I would judge that effect to be truly vile in nature. So I believe some effects are unnecessarily sadistic/malicious in nature.

Your idea for the sword is certainly savage and ruthless, but is more reflective of the materials with which we have to work with; rather than a desire to cause undue suffering. It is certainly borderline though. Perhaps the claw would be best used with another reagent to undercut its innate malice without weakening the enchantment?
 
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LysanderArgent said:
I don't disagree with your overall point, but I would quibble with this.

If a weapon caused unnecessary excessive amounts of pain (without any other purpose but sadism), corrupted their minds and/or souls, or enslaved peoples souls after slaying them I would judge that effect to be truly vile in nature. So I believe some effects are unnecessarily sadistic/malicious in nature.

Your idea for the sword is certainly savage and ruthless, but is more reflective of the materials with which we have to work with; rather than a desire to cause undue suffering. It is certainly borderline though. Perhaps the claw would be best used with another reagent to undercut its innate malice without weakening the enchantment?
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Again, I'd say intent matters, rather than the effects. While torture weapons can be used for sadistic pleasure of the torturer, they have also been used against criminal and spies to extract important information. The implements have remained same in both cases, and while the former has been universally derided throughout the ages, the contemporary morality has supported their use in the latter case. Even well into 21st century, use of methods of torture like waterboarding and such have been institutionally supported by countries that are judged to be free and democratic. Ultimately, modern morality abhors all uses of such tools and techniques, but morality should never be anachronistic. By the dictates and popular sentiment of their time, use of such evil weapons against the enemy spies and criminal was considered justified. Therefore, to judge a tool as evil is ultimately wrong, it is always the wielder who determines how it is used and intent that determines how it is perceived. 'Tis a bad workman that blames his tools, after all.

Now of course, there are some weapons, like Widowmaker or similar weapons, that exert a influence on the wielder and make him more cruel. But comparing them to a simple enchanted sword is comparing things vastly out of comparison.

Is the design I proposed vicious? Of course. But remember, most popular bullet for hunting, the soft-point bullet, is banned for warfare, because of the viciousness of the wounds it creates. Therefore, even vicious things have their own use. Strike the enemy as hard and as cripplingly as you could, that you may spare your allies from sorrow. A weapon better designed to kill and maim the forces of Chaos, Undead, Druchii and Orcs is a good weapon in my mind. And the design I presented were, I thought, closest in nature and conception to the original materials and hence better suited for enchantment.

Like you are free to propose new enchantments, but I will not say my proposal as borderline sadistic. People can be sadistic, cruel, evil and vicious. The weapon, if ever made, would be just a hunk of keratin if no one were to use it.
 
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OzymandiasAgain said:
I'd say intent matters, rather than the effects.
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This is the wrong quest for that kind of Machiavellian Consequentialism mentality. We're a High Elf. The Shield of the World. The gleaming golden standard that the rest of the planet should aspire to live up to. And you suggest that the sword we make for ourselves is enchanted not for defense or survival or killing blows, but to to crippling the enemy with painful wounds.

There are countless enchantments more suitable than 'cripple with painful blows'. 'Ferocious Speed' would be better. 'Raw Strength' would be better. 'Savage Killing' would be better. If we want something Chimera-specific then 'Unpredictability of attack' (multiple heads, claws, tails, breath attack) would be better. Even 'Unbridled Destruction' would be better.

In fact, I'm not even sure we could come up with an enchantment more antithetical to what Vardanis wants to be than 'cripple with painful blows'. You might not say it, but I will: your proposal is borderline sadistic.
 
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The Planning of the Blade
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    • The Planning of the Blade

    The sword is the weapon of the mage. The sword is the weapon of the sage, the wise, the able, the high-minded and the gifted. The weapon of Hoeth, the weapon of Aenarion. The mark of a gentleman and scholar; not merely the clumsy thrusting and striking of a hammer, nor the artless biting of an ax, but flowing and graceful as the water and yet powerful and swift as the Winds. Bane of Beastmen, bane of Greenskins, bane of undead and bane of Haclad alike, the most versatile of all weapons. Make it large enough and it can bite through armor just as well, if not better, than a hammer and yet still remain graceful; gracile enough, and it is thin and fast as a spear.

    Symbol of Ulgu, symbol of Judgement, symbol of Hoeth.

    And now you would forge one for yourself.

    It must be done with all your skill. It would not do to create an inferior weapon for yourself, one lower than you are. It must be yours, and bear the mark of your hands and your work and your abilities. Something fit for you, for your capacity and your abilities.

    There is a choice you must make here:

    Whether to follow the known enchantments; or, to go off on your own and experiment.

    Available generic enchantments:

    [] Biting: Slice through armor more effectively

    [] Warrior's Bane: The foe shall be innervated, less able.

    [] Torment: The foe shall be confused, befuddled, with every blow.

    [] Fear: And the darkness you face shall fear this blade.

    [] Sure Blow: Wreathed in magic, a solid strike will take all but a truly hearty foe from the fight

    [] Write-In enchantment:

    Which Reagents will you use

    [] Arcane Phoenix Feather: (Write in enchantment to spend it on, if undesired, vote no)
    [] Manticore Claw: (Write in enchantment to spend it on, if undesired, vote no)
    Moratorium for 12 hours since it's a simpler vote
     
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    • My first thought is to use the Manticore claw for this and save the Feather for a commission later; not sure on the enchantment to go for though.
     
    Ashmaker said:
    This is the wrong quest for that kind of Machiavellian Consequentialism mentality. We're a High Elf. The Shield of the World. The gleaming golden standard that the rest of the planet should aspire to live up to. And you suggest that the sword we make for ourselves is enchanted not for defense or survival or killing blows, but to to crippling the enemy with painful wounds.

    There are countless enchantments more suitable than 'cripple with painful blows'. 'Ferocious Speed' would be better. 'Raw Strength' would be better. 'Savage Killing' would be better. If we want something Chimera-specific then 'Unpredictability of attack' (multiple heads, claws, tails, breath attack) would be better. Even 'Unbridled Destruction' would be better.

    In fact, I'm not even sure we could come up with an enchantment more antithetical to what Vardanis wants to be than 'cripple with painful blows'. You might not say it, but I will: your proposal is borderline sadistic.
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    It's Warhammer, not LoTR.

    Remember, the greatest Elven Hero here is Aenarion wielding Widowmaker. Quarter of Ulthuan had gathered behind Malekith in revolt, arrogant and cruel Malekith, who had been promoting the Cult of Khaine. The average Elf is not Teclis or Tyrion here.

    Further, the primary duty of a claw is to rip and tear. If you would read the actual description, the enchantment I propose is not to cripple the enemy. Rather, it is to leave cuts like a claw does, ripping apart flesh and leaving behind jagged tears, not straight cuts like an ordinary blade. It leaves them unable to easily retaliate after even a single strike.

    The reason I made such a design is as such: A single sword slash is actually not very lethal if not hitting an important artery or something, because the blade is sharp and the cuts are easier to heal. On the other hand, a claw makes thick, irregular cuts that bleed much more heavily and are harder to ignore or heal. That is what I envisioned.

    Finally, on the accusation that it is sadistic, I'd say any weapon made to wound is similar in nature. When you cut or smash or burn or do whatever, you are causing pain. No tool is sadistic, or would you like to argue that a normal sword cannot be used for sadistic means? If you do, then I have nothing more to argue with you.
     
    Idea for an enchantment using the Manticore claw:

    [] Fated Blow: Your blade strikes as if it is guided by the knowledge of how to slay the foe.

    Flavour text:
    Is Asuryan not the Emperor of the Heavens, keeping all in balance through his divine will? Does Azyr, the Wind of Heaven, not bear a touch of Fate to it? Did your study of the heavens and devotion to Asuryan not grant you visions; visions that brought you to influence the fateful clash between Manticore and Phoenix, symbols each of Khaine and Asuryan?

    Let the manticore claw within your blade serve as a powerful reminder that righteousness and devotion will seek to ensure fate is on your side.

    Basically, my logic is that for a devout mage like Vardanis, you can easily see the path over the last few turns from a combination of Asuryan's will and his exploration of Azyr (both of which have strong associations with fate and destiny) put him in place to decide how the battle between a monster that the Druchii revere as a symbol of Khaine and a creature that the Asur revere as a blessed creation of Asuryan would go.

    I think it'd be very flavourful and in character to reflect that. It fits Vardanis' outlook, his piety and the general theological and mystical implications of both what he did to find himself in that situation and his actual actions within said situation.
     
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    OzymandiasAgain said:
    Finally, on the accusation that it is sadistic, I'd say any weapon made to wound is similar in nature. When you cut or smash or burn or do whatever, you are causing pain. No tool is sadistic, or would you like to argue that a normal sword cannot be used for sadistic means? If you do, then I have nothing more to argue with you.
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    That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that your proposed sword is definitely a more sadistic-enabling tool than a sword made for purposes other than inflicting grievous wounds would be. Or, to put it in a meme format:
    SoulCaptain said:
    [] Fated Blow: Your blade strikes as if it is guided by the knowledge of how to slay the foe.
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    I like this. Very nice flavour binding Vardanis' mentality with the circumstances of how we acquired those reagents.
     
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    How about like a 40k Force Weapon? Engage in a mental/magical struggle with the target on a bit, if successful, do additional damage?

    Another thought is that the sword creates energy mirror images when it's swung, dealing additional damage.

    Yet another is something that pierces not only armor, but defensive enchantments.

    Might be worth considering what would fuck over Druchii best.
     
    Voikirium said:
    You need a weapon. A blade, a keen cutting edge thing, for without it your options against the Manticore were mostly limited to taking shots at it from some distance, and you will not always have a Phoenix to carry your weight.
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    This line got me wondering, what if we went for whatever enchantment would give us the equivalent of the Tabletops Multiple Wounds rule, instead of the Killing Blow equivalent?

    Against other humanoids I can see Vardanis relying easily enough on the big sword and the standard Ghur buff spells, but then against monsters and monstrous creatures the enchantment could give him the edge he needs.
     
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