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To Secure this Beachhead of Worker's Power: A Soviet Union Quest.

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I'm skeptical of giving them BOTH Oil and Coal, honestly? Like, one thing to consider is that the 'canon' version of events includes the possibility of a German Revolution. We're (probably) not going to get that, but enabling a German victory would strangle literally every single other revolution across all of Europe in the crib.
 
The Laurent said:
I'm skeptical of giving them BOTH Oil and Coal, honestly? Like, one thing to consider is that the 'canon' version of events includes the possibility of a German Revolution. We're (probably) not going to get that, but enabling a German victory would strangle literally every single other revolution across all of Europe in the crib.
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I went back and forth on including Baku in my plan. I decided on including it for a couple reasons. One, it means Germany is agreeing to us sending military forces into the Caucauses, which should make it much easier to reclaim that region without their interference, even if they aren't officialy promising non-interference. Two, we will have to reclaim the area, restart the pumps, and set up the delivery routes to start sending the oil, which realistically will be months from now, at which point the international scene may be quite different and we can reevaluate the treaty then. Three, I actually think the other parts of my plans may hurt Germany worse than the industrial resources help. By reclaiming Ukraine and reducing grain payments, Germany will get less food out of the east than otherwise, which is already a huge issue for them at this time. Giving them the resources to run their factories and tanks is less impactful when their civilians and soldiers are starving and mutinous.
 
I think it's fine to send them oil and coal since we can just fuck up the oil and coal pretty easily. Unsure between Siberia and Moscow though
 
So, my personal top negotiations picks in the current situation:
-[] Reduce Reperations / Request the Ukranian Heartland

The importance of the grain issue has been hammered into us. OTL Lenin begins his collected works with a long, long speech about grain. Picking one of those should be mandatory for planning, though I would want to pick for the sake of stabilizing our country and avoiding the worst. Once we have stabilized our agriculture, we can build strength to tackle our other political issues.

-[] Ports in the Far North and Baltics
This one has some nice synergy with american trade and allows us to import some industrial goods. Not particularly important if you want to not open up trade, but I think that's throwing a fine opportunity for limited political gains.

Stuff I think doesn't help:
-[] Secure German non-interference in the Caucasus
Realistically, I don't see what Germany would be doing to oppose in the Caucasus in the near future given the sheer geography. We don't even know if Ludenberg's regime will be around during this offensive anyways and getting any oil out of wartorn Baku is going to take a slow and tedious process of reconstruction, in addition to shipping routes we don't have. There is a decent enough chance either the Entente or the Central Powers collapse either way during the time, so we're asking for non-interference in a getting a price the Germans may very well not be able to stop us from getting anways.

Concessions:
-[] Rights to the Donbas Coal Fields
-[] Crimea, with an offensive
There are no good options here, but selling the donbass coal at least give us a bit cash we can than use to trade. And I'm not keen to attack Britain directly since it's a wounded superpower compared to our nearly maimed civil war state, so it's going to be handing over Crimea via the principle of exclusion. Hopefully the return of the Ukrainian heartlands satisfies the SR enough to overlook this ugly compromise.

Trade:
-[]Request formal recognition and the resumption of normal trade relations
This is something worth annoying the Left Bolsheviks over. If I'm being realistic, a world revolution isn't going to happen in a single year; something these people will realize sooner or later. And we need access to machinery if we want to stabilize our production, something we can't get without selling a lot of resources to the Germans or international market access. Realistically, we need loans to acquire modern technology in the first place. The alternative to loans is exporting tons of grains from starving peasents to international markets, something that isn't particularly compatible with our government.
 
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[X] Working for a better tomorrow
-[X] Ports in the Far North and Baltics
-[X] Demand the Ukrainian Heartland
-[X] Reduce Reparations Payments
-[X] Crimea, with an offensive
-[X] Oil Rights in Baku
-[X] Request formal recognition and the resumption of normal trade relations
-[X] Send a proposal for mutual recognition to Qurui
-[X] Send them to aid Central Siberia
 
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I mostly agree with the priorities of Bread & Peace, so I might as well make it a variant.

[X] Plan Bread & Peace, British Peace Edition
-[X]Ports in the Far North and Baltics
-[X]Demand the Ukrainian Heartland
-[X]Reduce Reparations Payments
-[X]Rights to the Donbas Coal Fields
-[X] Crimea, with an offensive
-[X]Request formal recognition and the resumption of normal trade relations:
-[X]Remain uncommitted for now
-[X]Send them to aid Central Siberia

This plan focus mostly on avoiding overt confrontation with Britain by offering Crimea instead of Baku. Britain is in a position to fuck with us, especially if we commit forces against the british held city of Baku. I would rather not piss of a superpower right now, especially if we want to make any use of the ports. This plan maintains the focus on minimizing the economic strain of the reperations on our food supply and strives to reopen US trade. I explain my specific reasoning more in-depth up here, if you would like to read my full thoughts.
Red Rationalist said:
So, my personal top negotiations picks in the current situation:
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I just hope sending the Left Bolsheviks to Siberia isn't going to turn out badly for us. It's the best option for now, but it also lays the groundwork for another rival government if Trotsky decides to rebel. Oh well, it might still turn out fine.
 
-[X]Ports in the Far North and Baltics
-[X]Demand the Ukrainian Heartland
-[X]Reduce Reparations Payments
-[X]Rights to the Donbas Coal Fields
-[X] Crimea, with an offensive
-[X]Request formal recognition and the resumption of normal trade relations:
-[X]Recognize and support the KMT as China's legitimate government
-[X]Send them to aid Central Siberia
 
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@Curby
Do German capital goods come with people with the know-how to teach our workers how to use them?

EDIT: how about licenses to make more?
 
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[X] Plan Bread & Peace, British Peace Edition
-[X]Ports in the Far North and Baltics
-[X]Demand the Ukrainian Heartland
-[X]Reduce Reparations Payments
-[X]Rights to the Donbas Coal Fields
-[X] Crimea, with an offensive
-[X]Request formal recognition and the resumption of normal trade relations:
-[X]Remain uncommitted for now
-[X]Send them to aid Central Siberia
 
My main concern with asking Bryan for recognition is that it could backfire and lead to him getting impeached by the pro-British lobby putting Wilson in charge.
 
Yeah, I don't think Byron's long for this world even if we butterfly away the assassination. Like, even just a basic evaluation without that knowledge would say that betting on US Presidential politics is a sucker's game.
 
I think the man can judge this better than a ragtag bundle of Soviet politicians. Let him concern himself with his career, he can stall us if he doesn't like the risk. Besides, we have an entire country to care for and I think trying to get the SU recognized would help with a lot of things.
 
I strongly feel that, even for the Bolshevik Center, punching left is a mug's game. If the Bolshevik Left is successfully removed or silenced, the Center itself becomes the left flank of the government and will find itself isolated should the Right-Bolsheviks, Left-Mensheviks, and Left-SRs (who are each singly, never mind together, stronger than the Left-Bolsheviks) ever come knocking. Whereas, while the Bolshevik Left exists the Center can use it as a stick to beat the various right-wing forces with. Lenin himself acknowledged the greater danger posed by the right in his historical Left-Wing Communism, and was happy to incorporate Bordiga's amendments to the historical Twenty-One Conditions for membership in the Third International, to use as a weapon against the Serratis and Barths of the world.

Further, everyone knows what internal exile to Siberia actually means, and subjecting the Moscow Circle to it (even under the figleaf of a governmental post) will have a chilling effect on intra-party debate and democracy.
 
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Fair enough, I'm convinced.
[X]Ports in the Far North and Baltics
[X]Demand the Ukrainian Heartland
[X]Secure German non-interference in the caucuses
[X]Rights to the Donbas Coal Fields
[X]Oil Rights in Baku
[X]Request formal recognition and the resumption of normal trade relations
[X]Recognize and support the KMT as China's legitimate government
[X]Let them speak
 
The Laurent said:
Giving the SRs voice and then intentionally taking an option noted to piss them off seems... suicidal?
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I think that's overstating the risk. The option notes it might inflame them as well, it isn't guarantueed to do so.
Curby said:
(Note: This will lower British opinions of us, and might inflame the SR's as well.
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I'm going to fully admit this is taking a risk, but high food reparations are the bigger one in my view. Given the current situation, there isn't really a safe option either way. Even if we upset them, an opportunity to salvage their support with concessions could still be there.
 
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Zimmerwald1915 said:
@Curby
Do German capital goods come with people with the know-how to teach our workers how to use them?

EDIT: how about licenses to make more?
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Click to shrink...

Licenses will only come if the option is "empowered", but technical assistance will be automatically given. Of course, with enough time we could probably reverse-engineer the technology, provided we employ "middle-class specialists".
 
[X] Plan Bread and Peace
[x][Agenda] First Soviet Census
[x][Agenda] Agricultural Potential Survey
 
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