Time to rewrite the story of human origins

Neuroscience and intelligence - Wikipedia
"MRI is a non-invasive technique used to study the brain structure and function (using fMRI) of living subjects. Overall, larger brain size and volume is associated with better cognitive functioning and higher intelligence. The correlations range from 0.0 to as high as 0.6, and are predominantly positive."

As for cranial capacity, can't find it. Here's a related cite that at least somewhat supportive.
http://syslearn.oregonstate.edu/instruction/anth/smith/TimeMach1984.pdf


I'd also like a source on the average IQ figures.
 
I'd also like a source on the average IQ figures.
I don't take kindly to your tone, to be honest. Did you put in any effort yourself, or do you just enjoy having people work?

Richard Lynn says 91, but I don't trust Richard Lynn without reading his sources first. Some of his numbers are good, some are complete BS. I don't have a copy of Lynn's book to check.

Visual IQ 106
Kleinfeld, J. Visual memory in village Eskimo and urban Caucasian children. Arctic, 1971, 24, 132-137

Verbal IQ 80
Carroll, J.B. (1993). Human cognitive abilities: A survey of factor-analytical studies. New York : Cambridge University Press.
 
I don't take kindly to your tone, to be honest.

I'm usually the first person to jump in and complain about another user's abrupt and rather snippy tone, but all @Flectarn was asking for was to back up your assertion. It's one of the most basic tenants of good-faith debating.

Did you put in any effort yourself, or do you just enjoy having people work?

It's not his responsibility to prove your assertions for you, especially when you provide figures or relative comparisons without anything to help suggest this or even anything else at all beyond the barest of context (another thing I love jumping in and being the first to complain about).
 
Archaic homo sapiens is usually robust and large-brained. The brains, I would venture used in large part for targeting, toolmaking and tracking. They'd be epic baseball players. Probably not so great at cooperating in large groups or dealing positively with outsiders.

I'm biased to think they'd be belligerent murder machines if you got on their bad side. Like horror movie villains. Skilled, strong, relentless, stealthy, with unfathomable, yet darkly suggestive purpose.

Another thing I'm working into my book. :p
 
I don't take kindly to your tone, to be honest.
I don't take kindly to people doing this dance you're doing.

It was easily obtainable. Like, 9 seconds of looking. You could have put some effort in.
The Inuit have an unusually strong visual memory ability that is not measured in standard
intelligence tests. This was shown by Kleinfeld (1971) in a study of the visual memory of 125
Inuit village children in Alaska aged 9-16 compared with 501 white children in Anchorage
and Fairbanks, the two principal towns in Alaska. The test consisted of the presentation of
drawings for a brief period of time, after which the children were given the task of drawing
them from memory. The Inuit children obtained a mean IQ of 106 in relation to a white mean
of 100. Kleinfeld (p. 133) observes that this test result is consistent with the observations of
travelers who have accompanied Inuit on long hunting expeditions. She writes that "Cauca-
sians who have traveled with Inuit frequently remark on their extraordinary ability to travel
through what seems to be a featureless terrain by closely observing the smallest landmarks
and memorizing their spatial locations."

The strong visual memory of Inuit may explain why they are relatively good at spelling. In
Vernon's (1969) study he found that Inuit 10-year-olds had a spelling IQ of 95, considerably
higher than their verbal IQ of 80, of which spelling is generally considered a component (Car-
roll, 1993).

Of course, we all know why you are going to be hesitant to actually put anything forward: Lynn is a well known white supremacist well quoted by racists, as is your image. A fact I have no doubt you are aware of, as you have tried to make a go of this repeatedly. At random out of your lengthy, lengthy history.

The conversation came to be about how to combat racism in the public, and how racism can be 'coded' when racist ideas become publically unacceptable. Well guess what, there are a lot of correct observations that have been uncharitably characterized as racism. Maybe we should call these hate facts. NEVER GIVE THE OTHER SIDE THE ADVANTAGE OF THE TRUTH, not if you can help it.

Capital strawman, your love for me knows no bounds. Is that what you're worried might be true?

Walking a thin line... close to heresy? Or would it be crimethink? That's the authoritarian attitude that shuts down inquiry. Are you a fan of Lysenkoism too?


I'm under no such obligation, and I'm a lazy man. But... how about this SAT chart? IIRC 2008.


I know you want to make a go at the old racism again but you should also not try to grasp at new conclusions based on aforementioned racist sources. You don't have the years of study required to be properly and professionally full of shit.
 
Last edited:
Well. It looks like there's yet more rewriting to be done, since it now looks like every book on human evolution written and published to date is seriously obsolete.

In Neanderthal DNA, Signs of a Mysterious Human Migration

Study Proper

TL;DR: Archaic Homo sapiens, or a hominin so closely related to Homo sapiens as to not be readily distinguishable from it, left Africa as early as 270,000 years ago. We know this because they interbred with Neanderthals, introducing new mitochondrial DNA to the Neanderthal gene pool that proved so successful as to completely replace the previously existing Neanderthal mt-DNA. There's further significance since Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA before this event is much more closely related to that extracted from Denisovans, which suggests they represent respectively a western and eastern branch-off from a common ancestor.

There's no sign of this very early Out of Africa group of hominins except for the mark made in Neanderthal genetics. Though, as we now know, the later Out of Africa migration all modern humans descend from interbred with Neanderthals again making for an increasingly strange story of how humanity evolved.
 
Last edited:
I'd be very impressed--and amused--if the next Big Thing discovered was evidence of an ancient space-faring human civilization that fell ~100,000 years ago. Then we have 500 years to prepare to fight the Covenant.

Nah it will turn out the Moon really is a battleship built by an ancient human empire and all of humanity is descended from its stranded crew.

I prefer finding artificial ruins of a galactic empire on the far side of the moon.

Article:
"...Argos to Houston. The Argos has landed," the lunar pilot declared, half-triumphantly. "Houston, preparing for EVA."

He stared out of his cockpit window, and, for a few seconds, quietly marveled at the view. This is the first time in decades when humanity could see the mountains, the craters of Earth's only moon. And, if everything is all right, when humanity could step on the moon. Actually, no. This is the second time. The first time happened a few months ago, at the other side of where Ares 9's Argos landed. He stared at the stone-gray features of the Moon's terrain, the crest of the crater that they have landed nearby, mesmerized by how... featureless it is.

"Houston to Argos." Mission Control sure likes to break the silence. "All of your systems are green. You are go for EVA."

Silence again quickly filled the capsule. The mission commander yawned a little.

"...damn, they're trying to rush us, huh?" The commander sighed. "Just let us enjoy the damn sights for a while."

"Agreed," chuckled the pilot.

"Well, there's no point with arguing with Mission Command." The commander prepared his spacesuit, and donned his helmet. "You're coming with me; you're my paparazzi."

The pilot gave the commander a smirk.

---

Ares 9 was the second manned mission for the Constellation Program, which was inexplicably revived by the Obama Administration only a year after said administration declared an intent to go to Mars instead. While, to the public, the reason for the sudden revival is unknown, the administrators and scientists at NASA has a much better idea of what is going on. A few months before the decision was made, the Russian space agency, in clearing out their archives, found a classified dossier regarding the results of the early Luna missions of the Space Race era. Of particular interest was Luna 3, which sensed some residue radiation from the far side of the moon. The Soviets did not know what to make of it, so they sealed off the data, classified it, and threw in their archives, hoping that a new generation of scientists could solve it. The Russians quietly handed it to NASA for their input.

The NASA scientists read over the report. And then, they started looking at other data from more recent probes. JAXA's SELENE. CNSA's Chang'e 1. The ESA's SMART 1. By the time they finished scouring the data of their own Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, the chief scientist of NASA's space exploration division jogged down a message onto a sticky note and demanded a subordinate to deliver it to the White House. In the note, it states:

*THERE'S SOMETHING ON THE MOON*

And, with that, the Constellation Program was refocused on the Moon. Since then, two administrations have come and go, but now humanity, for the first time, could see with their own eyes the far side of the moon. Previous Ares missions involved launching probes for the incoming mission; said probes have found something at the bottom of a crater at the far side of the moon, and it could be the source of the radiation signature that Luna 3 found. NASA quickly prepare a mission, specifically to investigate this anomaly. The mission before Ares 9, Ares 8, was a little more than a publicity stunt, in the hopes that the mission after it would not nearly receive the amount of attention that Ares 8, the symbol of humanity coming back to the moon, would have. Thus, while the crewmembers of Ares 8 continued on their post-landing tour of the US, Ares 9 launched with comparably little fanfare. And NASA couldn't be any more happier with that.

---

"Houston, this is Argos," reported the commander. He and the pilot has spent the last hour assembling and riding their lunar buggy.

"They're not gonna hear ya," responded the pilot. "Our CSM is at the other side, and comms will probably be dead for a while."

"At least it was worth a try," sighed the commander. "Just you and me, driving towards some ultra-secret... something. What in the name of tarnation are we getting ourselves into?"

"What, commander, are you expecting C'thulhu?"

"Oh, shaddup. We're a klick from the site." The commander rolled his eyes. He then focused his eyes on the horizon of the base of the crater, wary of anything that may seem unnatural.

And, indeed, there is something unnatural. On the base of the crater, the two could make out what seemed to be... walls. Walls that grew to massive, breathtaking sizes. As they approached the site, they could also make out pillars, some of intricate designs. The commander also noted that the base of the crater suddenly became unnaturally smooth. Like what you'll expect of a concrete sidewalk. Or a plaza.

"...hey. Do they look like..."

"Ruins?" The pilot kept history and archeology as a hobby, and he could tell that this is no ordinary lava formation.

"...ruins." The commander finished. "Yeah. Ruins."

"Hello, and we are back!" The CSM pilot chirped. "You guys have comms to Houston-"

The commander didn't even hesitated to report his findings. "Houston, Houston, this is Argos! I think I just found what seemed to be a ruin of some sorts!"

---

"...holy crap." The head scientist at NASA's Houston Space Center's Mission Control room muttered. "They... they're right. These are no lava formations. And the strange radiation is coming from that anomaly. Somebody, whoever they are, has built this."

He lightly shook his head and chuckled. "This could of been the discovery. The single biggest finding that humanity has ever found. It's such a shame that the rest of the world cannot know about it." He turned to the liaison for the White House. "I assume that I'll report this to the president, then? This discovery of epic proportions?"

"Yessir," the liaison, a Secret Service agent, replied flatly. "Madame President would be happy to know that the time and effort spent on Project Constellation has not gone in vain." He pondered a bit. "Well, I would not think that that's a correct usage of the word 'happy'. I believed that she would be much more shocked by the sheer scale of today's findings. My apologies."

"Alright." The head scientist twirled his mustache, wondered who else should this be told to. "Also," he started, "I believe that another organization should know about our findings."

"Who?"

"The Avengers."

The agent snickered. "You mean Tony Stark's Chihuahua Horde?"

The scientist was adamant. "When that Chihuahua Horde could take on extraterrestrial threats and win, I would be more than happy to let then know that we have found something that is extraterrestrial."

The agent let out a sigh. "...fine."
 
Last edited:
I don't take kindly to people doing this dance you're doing.

It was easily obtainable. Like, 9 seconds of looking. You could have put some effort in.


Of course, we all know why you are going to be hesitant to actually put anything forward: Lynn is a well known white supremacist well quoted by racists, as is your image. A fact I have no doubt you are aware of, as you have tried to make a go of this repeatedly. At random out of your lengthy, lengthy history.






I know you want to make a go at the old racism again but you should also not try to grasp at new conclusions based on aforementioned racist sources. You don't have the years of study required to be properly and professionally full of shit.

I was gonna ask Sol if he realized Inuits were homo sapiens, but you made the point better than I could

Jesus people.
 
Speaking of brain size, did not it peak around with Cro Magnon and shrunk since then ? If my reading is correct the agricultural revolution and formation of larger groups coincided with smaller brain-size. Neanderthals also had larger brains than us.

I wonder if the image of the dumb brute is wrong, and the archetypical cavamen might had been more like DC comics character Vandal Savage I.E a very anti social but also highly intelligent savant who if transported to today and given modern education would be seen as a genius intellect alpha male.

There was actually a short story called N-Words by Ted Kosmatka centered around that premise, funnily enough. Neanderthals brought back by cloning defied the expectations of leading experts by turning out to be incredibly gifted well above the human norms both athletically and intellectually.
 
Early HS are HS. They're just bigger brained, and usually stronger.
Mhmm, and this makes your assertion that inuits are somehow less able to reason in favor for hitting nails real well using discredited and racist reasoning okay how?

Here's a secret, we don't know how ancient hominids thought at all. Not even a little.
 
Mhmm, and this makes your assertion that inuits are somehow less able to reason in favor for hitting nails real well using discredited and racist reasoning okay how?

Here's a secret, we don't know how ancient hominids thought at all. Not even a little.

We don't even know when they were alive or where they were given all these recent developments showing humans ending up places tens of thousands of years earlier than previously believed. Frankly tens of thousands of years make just about everything at best an educated guess.

Meanwhile we still have gaping holes in our knowledge of how our brains work in the here and now when scanning and cutting them open to have a look is an option.

Put the two together and sweet fuck all is the result.
 
Last edited:
Neanderthal brains 'grew more slowly'

Well, courtesy of a new article in the journal Science, we have more evidence that Neanderthals were like modern humans in their neurological development. That's crucial because a slowly-developing brain over the course of prolonged childhood is a unique feature in H. sapiens; or so we thought. If Neanderthals had a similar prolonged development it stands to reason there was a cause for it, and the cause is the same as in H. sapiens, which is the need for massive amounts of time and energy to support the human brain. If Neanderthals were just as neurologically sophisticated as modern humans it lends strong credence to the emerging evidence of cultural exchange and prolonged co-habitation of modern humans with archaic humans.

And probably means the feature was inherited from a common ancestor and might be present in other archaic hominids, who might in turn have been smarter than we've thought. That also kind of makes all the obvious hybridization and cross-breeding a lot less squicky...
 
I remember doing a paper on Neanderthals in collage. But now....

*Tilts knowledge into garbage can*

It does imply that the "frightened Neanderthals constantly ran away from human frontiers until they died out in a corner somehwere" theory that I saw a lot of is far less likely than "We fucked them out of existance" which is perhaps the most Human way of going about interspecies contact that I can imagine.
 
As far as human brains getting smaller and the possibility that we are less intelligent than our ancestors, one interesting hypothesis I've run across is that we've "domesticated" ourselves. Domesticated animals have smaller brains because humans do their thinking for them; humans on the other hand according to this hypothesis have offloaded much of their decision-making onto society as it has become more sophisticated.

So we don't need to be as intelligent in certain ways, since the laws and customs of our society handle most of the job of organizing hundreds or thousands of people. And do it better than everyone trying to do the job on the fly, from the bottom up.

The Trigon Disunity trilogy had an interesting idea for a lost ancient human starfaring civilization. It was during the glacial period, and since ice was so common they'd developed a technology that largely used exotic phases of ice that were stable at higher temperatures as its main building material. When they were killed off most of the remains of their civilization literally dissolved into water after enough time had passed.
 
As far as human brains getting smaller and the possibility that we are less intelligent than our ancestors, one interesting hypothesis I've run across is that we've "domesticated" ourselves. Domesticated animals have smaller brains because humans do their thinking for them; humans on the other hand according to this hypothesis have offloaded much of their decision-making onto society as it has become more sophisticated.

So we don't need to be as intelligent in certain ways, since the laws and customs of our society handle most of the job of organizing hundreds or thousands of people. And do it better than everyone trying to do the job on the fly, from the bottom up.

The Trigon Disunity trilogy had an interesting idea for a lost ancient human starfaring civilization. It was during the glacial period, and since ice was so common they'd developed a technology that largely used exotic phases of ice that were stable at higher temperatures as its main building material. When they were killed off most of the remains of their civilization literally dissolved into water after enough time had passed.
In other words, we advanced our way into stupidity. Ain't evolution fun?
 
Update

Modern humans left Africa much earlier

Scientists in Israel have determined that a jawbone dated from around 185,000 years ago is from a member of homo sapiens. This shatters the record for the oldest sign of anatomically modern humans outside Africa. There's also an argument to be made from the stone tool package that was found with the remains that such a presence could date back as far as 250,000 years ago. Some skeptics point to signs the tool package could be Neanderthal in origin, from Europe, though I would note we have evidence that human-Neanderthal interbreeding late than 275,000 years ago led to the complete replacement of existing Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA with mtDNA derived from early out-of-Africa homo sapiens so uh that objection might in fact be the basis for a theory of cultural as well as genetic exchange.
 
Another month, another bit of the human story rewritten.

Neanderthals were capable of making art

Granted this isn't paradigm shattering news, but rather a piece of the puzzle fitted in. The old portrayal of Neanderthals as incapable of symbolic thinking was always pretty shoddy anyway given that we knew they buried their dead and otherwise behaved with ritualistic purpose. That the first cave paintings are attested to them now is another sign of the increasingly obvious proposition that "behavioral modernity" was not limited to homo sapiens and even that after some particular point in development. There's still a lot of unanswered questions about the ancestry of modern human beings but the story of how we interbred with Neanderthals is looking more and more like the story of two equal tribes interacting in the same way human tribes have always interacted with one another.
 
Another month, another bit of the human story rewritten.

Neanderthals were capable of making art

Granted this isn't paradigm shattering news, but rather a piece of the puzzle fitted in. The old portrayal of Neanderthals as incapable of symbolic thinking was always pretty shoddy anyway given that we knew they buried their dead and otherwise behaved with ritualistic purpose. That the first cave paintings are attested to them now is another sign of the increasingly obvious proposition that "behavioral modernity" was not limited to homo sapiens and even that after some particular point in development. There's still a lot of unanswered questions about the ancestry of modern human beings but the story of how we interbred with Neanderthals is looking more and more like the story of two equal tribes interacting in the same way human tribes have always interacted with one another.

The thing that intrigues me is what would contemporary H. Sapiens think of Neanderthals. Would they have been seen as just another tribe of humans or perceived as a truly different species ? Also the fact that the children of human neanderthal unions survived to such a degree that majority of human today have Neanderthal ancestors, what does it say about views toward Neanderthals ? Maybe humans and Neanderthals didn't really hate each other ? Especially since modern concepts of racism would not exist in the Paleolithic period.
 
The thing that intrigues me is what would contemporary H. Sapiens think of Neanderthals. Would they have been seen as just another tribe of humans or perceived as a truly different species ? Also the fact that the children of human neanderthal unions survived to such a degree that majority of human today have Neanderthal ancestors, what does it say about views toward Neanderthals ? Maybe humans and Neanderthals didn't really hate each other ? Especially since modern concepts of racism would not exist in the Paleolithic period.

Not really possible to say as such, but evidence of extensive crossbreeding between homo sapiens and Neanderthals (and not all one-way; Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA was completely replaced at one point by mDNA that came from homo sapiens) is certainly suggestive. There's also evidence of cultural exchange, though nothing definitive yet the same way the ancient DNA samples have overturned the physical side. That said a Neanderthal would probably look like they fell within the range of morphology differences between homo sapiens populations, or not very far at all outside of them; and it's possible if they had survived without being completely absorbed by a homo sapiens population they might just be seen as a subspecies, or even as a morphological outlier of homo sapiens.
 
Also the fact that the children of human neanderthal unions survived to such a degree that majority of human today have Neanderthal ancestors, what does it say about views toward Neanderthals .
.

If Neanderthal gene 'useful' then they could spread very quickly by Homo Sapiens themselves. Gene for milk-drinking spread very fast. We don't know how many Neanderthal-H.Sapiens happen. it could happen only one time, then gene spread because usefulness. And Neanderthal pop is very low, if 50000 Neanderthal and 50000 h.Sapiens share entire Europe at that time, chance of meeting could be very rare.
 
Back
Top