Through the Looking Glass (Spider-Gwen/Spider-Man Noir Crossover)

While it wouldn't diminish my enjoyment of your fic, it could either toe the line with what is technically acceptable on this forum or more likely encourage shippers into making inappropriate jokes.

I am not an expert, and Lord Squishy's post only made things less clear for me.

You have given me no reason to doubt your discretion as a writer, I just don't want to give you bad advice by saying it would be totally okay.

And while you are unlikely to write a sex scene, a realistic portrayal of a romantic relationship between them is probable to include them thinking about each other sexually, which I've seen people get warned for.

Ah, alright :) I meant to ask if the relationship was construed as romantic, not that I planned to write a sex scene about it. I can barely write fight scenes, what makes you think I'd be able to write a sex scene? :( I always go for the classically cheap 'fade to black' scenarios such as what happened with Lori and then just showing the aftermath.
 
Okay! I finally have a chance to respond.

My recomendation? Keep it to the CSI angle, he's a film noir detective spider have him concentrate on learning how to get better at what he's already good at. Finger prints, recording equipment, eventally DNA. That sort of thing.
I second this. Though I could see him coming up with something like the Spider Tracers as well.
You don't mind that he acts like a thug every other time, particularly where weapons and gadgets are concerned? I mean I don't mind since it's much simpler for me and allows him to specialize, but just want to make sure his combat abilities staying the same is okay.
Hmm...

Yes and no.

The thing about Peter IMO (at least 616 Peter) is that he's almost never the guy who reaches into his utility belt for a ready made solution.

Going back thru the old comics most of his special gear was created as a response to a new villain or because an old one had a new trick that he had to overcome. Most of the time he never uses that stuff in his day to day crimefighting (tho there are some exceptions like his liquid webbing and the spider tracers) but he'll pull it out if the need ever arises.

Like his stealth suit, he only made it to fight a specific guy then went back to his regular suit.

Now I don't know how much of that applies to Noir, but I'd guess he'd grab some stuff to cover the weaknesses he's been shown in his time in Earth-65. For example, If he had the Spider Tracers he could have tracked down the Sin-Eater or Gabe much faster so I could see him coming up with those if Hill gives him the resources.

As for other ideas... he knows that he can ignore toxins that would f#ck most people up and he's good at chemistry, could he whip up a super-steroid to give himself a temporary boost? He's already shown that he'd take that kind of risk with the Lizard Formula in the vulture fight, why not come up with his own brew?

Another idea that I think would fit his MO are custom bullets (explosive tipped or maybe laced with something/designed to break apart into a cloud of poison/sedative?) since so many people he's bumped into can shrug of standard rounds I can see him trying to even the odds there. Or maybe some premade alarms/traps designed to be attached to a web-line tripwire.

Idunno, I might be reaching, but I feel like these are some things that would be useful for him without drastically changing his threat level, that would still be in character for him to come up with. :)

General question: Does anyone else find Peter's relationship with Lana weird? I wanted to portray them as being 'friends' the same way Peter and Bullseye are, but a friend mentioned that it seems more than that; and this guy normally doesn't look at things with shipping goggles. So...did I fuck something up? Cause I really don't want to deal with that age gap problem Gwen and Miles were saddled with during the Sitting in a Tree arc. Even if he's only 3 years older than her the way I've written them kinda makes it seem higher than that.
I don't.

It seems clear cut, she looks up to him but doesn't want to admit it cuz teenage rebellion, he sees her as a responsibility since he let her tag along on his crime fighting and she's not going to stop.

I mean, I can see some subdued hero worship from her based on the situation that could develop into a crush on Lana's part but I doubt it would even register to Noir given how old he is mentally.

Factor in the closeness in age and I could see something develop if she managed to get the idea in Noir's head, but on the other hand he's the closest thing to a guardian she has so that might be off-puting enough that the idea never registers to her :/ , heck I could see a brother-sister dynamic forming just as easily as a romantic one. (it would fit the way the bicker :p)

TLDR: You could take it either way and it would still make sense to me :p
 
Last edited:
@Knight-Radiant - I never actually got why Peter never pulled out the Stealth Suit more. As Scarlet Spider indicates Kane could use it constantly at no risk of it breaking down on him so why doesn't he use the obviously superior suit that comes with complete sound dampening and stealth? That'd be like if Terry McGinnis from Batman Beyond ditched his advanced Batsuit cause...well, just cause. It makes 616 look like an idiot all things considered.

As for steroids, it depends. If we're keeping it realistic then no steroid on the planet allows you to surpass the 1 ton he can already do; and given that the ultra rare super soldier serum allowed for 'only' peak human and they haven't been able to replicate even that it could just be that something like the Lizard serum is the only thing that could push past his limitation and hard-coded drug immunity.

As for the thing with Lana, I have to ask: How old do you see Noir mentally? I have him default to calling people kid, but it wasn't meant to be taken at complete face value given that - as Lana points out - he's not old enough to play the part of the cranky old geezer. Take note that he's either the same age just or a year older than Eugene (Frog-Man) and he's actually a younger than Gwen, both as Noir and or 65-Peter dependent on who you believe he is.

The brother-sister dynamic is what I was going for, actually ;) This changed a bit: Originally Noir was part of two groups; the first being the Defenders (the 'big kids') while he also spent time with people slightly younger than him like Lana, Gabriel and Eugene - He even snarks that he's got three unwanted children. Gabriel got the shaft and Eugene hasn't shown up again, so Lana got transferred to the Defenders and gets the lions share of Noir's attention and their back and fourths.

Gwen does point out that Peter's an exceedingly crappy guardian, though: He lets her smoke (possibly getting her addicted to nicotine), comes home covered in blood and bullet wounds and doesn't filter himself when talking about his vigilante activities. His only defense is he's not her dad, which rings kinda hollow. Lana herself defends his treatment of her to Gwen, though she's also biased given the way she was raised.
 
@Knight-Radiant - I never actually got why Peter never pulled out the Stealth Suit more. As Scarlet Spider indicates Kane could use it constantly at no risk of it breaking down on him so why doesn't he use the obviously superior suit that comes with complete sound dampening and stealth? That'd be like if Terry McGinnis from Batman Beyond ditched his advanced Batsuit cause...well, just cause. It makes 616 look like an idiot all things considered.
Yeah... I have no answer for you there.

Spidey has a long confusing history of forgetting/losing his power ups.

Heck! in the 70's comic he got his hands on a Tech-suit/Harness that Dr Octopus had built that almost doubled his natural strength, after thrashing Doc Ock with it in that issue it was never seen or heard of again...

:jackiechan:

I think it's part of the whole 'Spiderman is the Underdog' thing, whenever he gets something good it get's forgotten/retconned/broken.

As for steroids, it depends. If we're keeping it realistic then no steroid on the planet allows you to surpass the 1 ton he can already do; and given that the ultra rare super soldier serum allowed for 'only' peak human and they haven't been able to replicate even that it could just be that something like the Lizard serum is the only thing that could push past his limitation and hard-coded drug immunity.
That's fair, I just figured it was something he might try considering he'll be working with Hill on a Lizard cure.

I got the idea from Agents of Shield, the new 'director' has a similar thing going for him right?

As for the thing with Lana, I have to ask: How old do you see Noir mentally? I have him default to calling people kid, but it wasn't meant to be taken at complete face value given that - as Lana points out - he's not old enough to play the part of the cranky old geezer. Take note that he's either the same age just or a year older than Eugene (Frog-Man) and he's actually a younger than Gwen, both as Noir and or 65-Peter dependent on who you believe he is.
That's a hard one, I guess Noir just reads as older to me because of his cynical/grim attitude. Now to be fair he has VERY good reasons to be the way he is cuz he has SEEN SOME SHIT, but I still have to keep reminding myself that he's a teenager and not a post-war 20-30 something.

I think of it this way, Gwen and Noir have a comparable amount of miles on their respective odometers; but while Gwen has been driving on mostly paved roads with some sizable pot holes here and there while Noir has been offroading in horrible terrain the whole time.

Same distance traveled, but one has significantly more wear than the other :D, heck I feel like Lana has more maturity then Gwen based on her background but she still pales in comparison to Noir.

Noir also has far more tragedy under his belt, that ages a person.

Now I'm not saying that people shouldn't call Noir out on this (as people have done so far) but he does seem to get along better with older folks like Castle and Bullseye so...

-Edit-

I do think spending some time hanging out with Gabe/Eugene/Lana will be good for him.
 
Last edited:
@Knight-Radiant - Even the underdog thing doesn't fly since he has 10 ton strength and a host of various powers. Batman's an underdog since he can't go past human limits, but Spidey reminds me of Season 1 Justice League Superman: Constantly gets his ass kicked just cause he's too dumb to use his powers and/or the writers think it's dramatic.

Noir never actually went to war: That was Mary Jane if you believe the Edge of Spiderverse series. His cynicism is really bloated even in canon, which makes him seem far older than he has any rite to be in al honesty. As for Gwen: She was hunted as a murderer for 5 years, accused of killing her best friends, had to deal with her other best friend trying to kill her and other nasties like Frank Castle and Matt Murdock. I'd argue she has the same amount of trauma and she just doesn't whinge and let it bog her down as much as Noir does.

Ditto Lana. Objectively speaking her mom being injured but alive pales in comparison to Gwen accidentally beating her best friend to death with her bare hands.
 
@Knight-Radiant - Even the underdog thing doesn't fly since he has 10 ton strength and a host of various powers. Batman's an underdog since he can't go past human limits, but Spidey reminds me of Season 1 Justice League Superman: Constantly gets his ass kicked just cause he's too dumb to use his powers and/or the writers think it's dramatic.

Noir never actually went to war: That was Mary Jane if you believe the Edge of Spiderverse series. His cynicism is really bloated even in canon, which makes him seem far older than he has any rite to be in al honesty. As for Gwen: She was hunted as a murderer for 5 years, accused of killing her best friends, had to deal with her other best friend trying to kill her and other nasties like Frank Castle and Matt Murdock. I'd argue she has the same amount of trauma and she just doesn't whinge and let it bog her down as much as Noir does.

Ditto Lana. Objectively speaking her mom being injured but alive pales in comparison to Gwen accidentally beating her best friend to death with her bare hands.
Eh...

I'd say what happened to Noir's uncle Ben kinda trumps the death of 65-Peter and Gwen, as does Noir's experience when getting his powers vs Gwens.

Another selling point is that most of Noir's friends/allies had absolutely terrible things happen to them, while Gwen still has her band and her father.

But I DO see your point, he does let his tragedies get to him way more then Gwen/Lana does...

But isn't that a big part of Peter Parker's character? His guilt complex is what made 616 become a super hero, and 65-Peter and Noir both share some of the same... Broodiness? Problems with letting stuff go? 65-Peter to the point that he made himself a monster over his 'tragic highschool experience'. :(

(I guess the argument could be made that Gwen/Lana just handled the stress better than he could?)

-Edit-

I don't know if I'm even making any sense, sorry. :oops:
 
Last edited:
Eh...

I'd say what happened to Noir's uncle Ben kinda trumps the death of 65-Peter and Gwen, as does Noir's experience when getting his powers vs Gwens.

Another selling point is that most of Noir's friends/allies had absolutely terrible things happen to them, while Gwen still has her band and her father.

But I DO see your point, he does let his tragedies get to him way more then Gwen/Lana does...

But isn't that a big part of Peter Parker's character? His guilt complex is what made 616 become a super hero, and 65-Peter and Noir both share some of the same... Broodiness? Problems with letting stuff go? 65-Peter to the point that he made himself a monster over his 'tragic highschool experience'. :(

(I guess the argument could be made that Gwen/Lana just handled the stress better than he could?)

-Edit-

I don't know if I'm even making any sense, sorry. :oops:

I understand you just fine, worry not ;) As for angst, yeah I'm not saying Noir doesn't have good reason - especially now with the possible memory swap hanging over his head - but he broods over it far more than what can be considered healthy. Granted he doesn't let this stop him from being an effective vigilante, but hey.

The friends thing is also a good point. Noir can count on one hand the number of people he honestly even likes, and most of the Defenders don't even count for that: Castle cares more about paying back what he owes him while Moon Knight and Felicia shamelessly exploit him for his powers without much care for his physical and mental state. Even Gwen, good intentions aside, abused his trust and has behavior that can be minsconstrued as abusive in certain respects.

As for guilt complex, Gwen has that more than him. As Noir points out she blames herself for an inordinate amount of things that usually can't be pinned on her, most notably the death of 65-Peter; which only happened because he turned himself into a giant Lizard monster. Thankfully Cap and him seem to have finally gotten through to her and she's much less self-flagelatting in the recent chapters...albeit now she's nosy and wants Peter to visit the Parkers to explain the situation. Just can't win with her...
 
Chapter 44
So...my main laptop broke halfway through writing this, which made finishing the chapter a real fucking pain in the ass. Anyway, I did my best to make the chapter lighthearted, but there's an angsty part near the end before we swerve back to silly. I blame familial troubles coloring my outlook, playing through Planescape Torment enhanced edition and the aforementioned broken laptop possibly souring my mood. Couple that with writing the entire chapter in a day and my humor was shot.

Anyway, I read up on the bio for the Mary Janes band and my God: It's no surprise the relationship between the four is vitriolic given how they started - Glory and Mary Jane met when they both got mutual detention and passed the time by making nonsensical pop-songs, Gwen only got involved because Glory asked her to and Betty was an impromptu member because she hijacked the school PA system to play Swedish Death metal.

That and a lot of their concerts end badly - First gig ended with the Lizard appearing, Rhino attacked Gwen's dad in their second gig, Gwen flaked out on the third gig, they were attacked by ninjas being Felicia's opening act and in the Christmas chapter a thief tried to steal their donation box...yeesh, these 4 have really shitty luck.

Couple that with the band disbanding after 65-Peter's death and only reforming when Mary Jane signed them up for a gig without the other members knowing and it's no surprise they argue and piss on each other a lot. On the bright side Gwenom's gonna appear in the next Spider-Gwen chapter, so maybe I can get some inspiration. Wish me luck.


Also, here's what PaperDoll looks like:






Chapter 44: Back to 'Normal'

Sometimes Gwen looked back and marveled at how much things had changed.

When she first got bit she never thought superpowers were ever gonna be a thing. She'd read comics before; Captain America was a favorite of her dad - the only nerdy thing she could say about the man - but even that had a certain niche about it. Cap got her powers by choice, not because the injection fell on her wrist or something. She'd watched up on She-Hulk, of course, but even that she kinda got. The procedure might have had accidental results, but her cousin Dr. Banner was using experimental tech or whatever (she wasn't sure of the specifics, so sue her).

Still, a radioactive spider that just happened to give her with the proportionate strength, speed, agility and whatever the fuck else of an arachnid? She never would've dreamed of it, though she also found herself lucky she wasn't running with 4 pairs of arms and ejecting webs out of her ass; no, she didn't care if Betty would've found it cool.

But hell, 5 years...it felt like a lifetime, to use that cliche. Here she was barely about to turn 20 - still a year from legal drinking, though if her dad had his way she'd be dry as a desert till she was 65 - and it was hard to believe how much had changed. From regular girl to celebrity to murderer to S.H.I.E.L.D sanctioned hero. Call her egotistical, but it seemed a hell of a lot more eventful than some celebrities entire careers.

Of course it never hurt to think back on how it all started. She was sure that on her deathbed at the ripe young age of 120 her biography would mention how effortless it all was, how she was destined for greatness and that the whole 'accused of murdering her best friend' clusterfuck was just a little rough patch that she took with unerring dignity and grace...and she wouldn't mention the nights she spent crying herself to sleep and hyperventilating.

But yeah, back to her humble beginnings...

"Bodega Bandit, you are the worst!" she said, more out of habit than any actual irritation. She had no idea how the phrase got started, but it was practically anyone's mantra as soon as a certain someone showed for one of his daily annoyance sprees. Today's 'loot haul' didn't even make any sense: Wheeling an entire galaxy smashers arcade machine? Where the hell was he planning to put it? He lived in a dumpster! Last she checked those didn't come with electrical sockets!

"Yeah...well, so are you!" he snapped back, causing her to roll her eyes. In all the years she'd known him his repertoire of insults never really moved beyond 'No, you!' no matter how nonsensical it was, "And get me outta this thing! This is cruelty, damn it! I got rights, so does Bandito II!" He struggled against the black webbing, pulling at it with his remaining free arm while Pine Cone - no, she wasn't gonna call him Bandito II - nibbled a treat on his shoulder without a single fuck given. Getting him away from Murderface really helped his mood.

Bodega Bandit...one of the first criminals she'd ever caught, really. Again, call her egotistical but nowadays she looked back on that time with a certain fondness. Back then it was so simple; make celebrity appearances, play drums upside down or make a show of her powers, then do a little community service on the side like taking out a few purse snatchers or taking El Bodega Bandito to his penalty box.

It was odd. After all the Supervillains like Hippo and Fishbowl or even all that S.I.L.K bullshit, webbing BB to the wall for his requisite 20 minutes in the time-out corner felt almost relaxing...and yes, she was very well aware how fucked up it made her look, thank you very much. She still remembered the first time she met him - A rainy day when he'd tried to mug Peter for his spare subway pocket change.

Back then she'd honestly thought that he was a threat, and she'd rushed in there uncaring about the fact that Peter might have recognized her voice (he didn't). It was after the 4th time or so that she caught on that the guy couldn't threaten his way out a cardboard box and that his 'threats' to her best friend amounted to showing off his non-existent abs and threatening to send his 'fierce attack pug' to maybe annoy Peter with a few ineffectual nibbles to his shin before he 'caved to the danger'.

"Yeah, yeah. Tell it to the judge." She rolled her eyes again and pulled out a chocolate bar from her 'pocket', 'I swear this thing's gonna eat through all of my backpay...' She pulled up her mask to her nose and took a big bite out of the treat. She was sure those peanut butter cups would have lasted her, but it only took half an hour for her stomach to start gurgling again. At this rate most of her body weight would've been made up of chocolate and she'd be dead of diabetes before her birthday hit.

She still felt odd receiving a salary at all. It felt...wrong somehow. She did this to help people, not because she got a wad of cash with more zeroes that she expected at the end of the month. Cap managed to convince her in the end, though - Her dad received a paycheck (which he used to buy her first drum set...) and it wasn't wrong for him to get it for doing his job to protect the city from bastards like Wilson Fisk, so why would she feel guilty for getting one? It wasn't like she'd stop if she didn't get money, so it was more like a bonus...right?

"Oh yeah, rub it in, why don't ya!" he said, looking at the chocolate bar hungrily. Despite herself she found it hard not to feel sorry, even just a little bit. She'd called the cops over, but she was pretty sure it'd be a while before they came to pick him up. Sometimes he was out of prison before the day was done, so he was about as high on the priority list as the school that constantly pulled the fire alarm.

Gwen sighed and fished out another one from a separate pocket before handing it to him, "Here. Don't say I never gave you anything." He took it without so much as a 'thank you' and bit into it greedily, pausing only to offer some to Pine Cone before she yanked his arm back, "Chocolate's a no go for hamsters. I didn't give you him just so you could kill your partner in crime."

"Sh-Shut up," he muttered, a slight flush on his barely covered cheeks. Gwen smirked; probably hated getting caught flat-footed after getting his ass kicked so many times, "...Hey, what's the deal with you, anyway? New costume?"

Gwen raised an eyebrow. Friendly conversation now? Unexpected, but hell it wasn't as if her days weren't weird enough already, "You could say that. Think of it like an upgrade." Not that she asked for it, but who was she to complain? So far it didn't make her want to eat Betty or Murderface and she certainly didn't feel any different, so maybe she lucked out (for once...) and got the cure for cancer version of this thing.

If nothing else it was really damn convenient not having to bring her backpack everywhere ever since she got these 'pockets'. Granted she had no fucking clue where Webster was putting her things, but she wasn't going to question it. Given her luck the second she started asking she'd accidentally shit her stuff out and she got enough crap from MJ as it was. She didn't another thing for the redhead to rag her over with.

"...Suppose it's too much to hope that you finally learned your lesson?" she asked conversationally.

"Pfft, you wish! Just you wait, I'll get that thing back!" he said, looking at the inactive machine the same way she looked at her history homework. Gwen finished the last of her bar and pinched the bridge of her nose. It would've been really convenient if he had a legit change of heart like Frog-Man, but she supposed she shouldn't have been surprised by how stubborn he was. 5 years and he was still going strong; it took a certain amount of determination, if nothing else.

"What's the point of all this? I mean is it really fun, just stealing things every damn day?" She was very well-aware that she was veering into 'lecture mode', as Glory called it (rather ironic coming from the mother hen of the group). Still, she really couldn't help it. Bad enough that he was stealing every day, but now his crimes didn't even make any fucking sense. At this point she was expecting him to break into a store just to leave shit and have the owners chase him to give it back.

"Why do you care?" He turned away and...was he pouting? The fuck? "Not like you're gonna stop me again. You're a big celebrity now, rubbing shoulders with Captain America and She-Hulk. You don't got time for us small people down here."

"Bandit...are you lonely-"

"Wha- No!" His even redder cheeks and sputtering coughs didn't do much to prove his point, "I don't care what you do! Hell, it'll be easier for me to strike now that you're not constantly foiling my plans!" Foiling his plans? Was that what he called it? "So just...just go be the big hero and ignore me! I don't care!"

'Oh, you gotta be fucking kidding me.' She shook her head and resisted the urge to voice her thoughts out loud. Honestly she had no idea if she wanted to laugh or try to reassure him that he was still important. Did he misconstrue the relationship? She thought it was pretty simple: He stole something, she knocked him flat on his ass and then ran away before the police tried to arrest them both...okay, less the last part ever since 2 months ago, but you got the point. It was a simple thing, and she liked it that way.

"Alright, listen, Hamburglar." She pointedly ignored his cry of 'It's Bodega Bandit!', "Just cause I'm sanctioned by S.H.I.E.L.D doesn't mean I'm gonna stop kicking your ass when you try to steal...whatever it is that you think is funny that day." God, was she honestly doing this? Making a speech to her...well, was 'arch-nemesis' the right word? He was definitely her most re-occurring Supervillain, even if she was sure the only thing super about him was his determination to keep making an ass of himself no matter how many times he fell on his face.

"Really? You mean it?" he asked, expression oddly hopeful.

'That's not supposed to make you happy...' God, she really didn't need this. It wasn't an exaggeration to say that the amount of stupid crimes she dealt with increased as soon as her name was cleared. It literally took about a day before she was catching muggers who asked for her autograph before she handed them over to the police. Really fucking weird...although oddly flattering, in that weird 'crazy fan with too much time on their hands' sense.

Thankfully she didn't have to wallow in the awkwardness for long. Gwen snapped her head to the sound of screeching tires and saw a limo speeding down the streets with a loud thrum before it disappeared past another building as quick as it came, 'Oh thank god,' she breathed a sigh of relief and jumped into a swing, "Stay and wait for the police! And don't litter, you're in enough trouble as it is!"

She didn't hear his reply, and to be honest she didn't really want to considering how awkward the last 2 minutes had been. She focused instead on the runaway limo, watching as it careened down the street like something out of Motor Vehicle Theft game, 'Someone's had a bit too much to drink...' She quickened her swings, mentally thanking Webster for the slight boost in speed. Stopping runaway vehicles wasn't exactly her strong suit, but she'd deal.

She just had to make sure the damn thing didn't up-end and explode like the last time she'd tried it...

At least the driver had enough sense to not start a rampage on the sidewalks, though that probably had more to do with the fact that limos weren't exactly known for their breakneck speeds and turns, "Seriously, what the fuck?" she muttered. People turned to look towards the speeding vehicle, some even screaming obscenities that she was pretty sure they just needed an excuse to yell out. She should know; she'd been on the other end of that trick more times than she cared to count.

Gwen shook her head and made on final swing, jumping ahead of the car slightly before she ejected another line of webbing to pull herself to the front seat. She knew from experience that trying to web up the wheels was a really bad idea, so the next best thing was trying to convince the driver to pull over or else she'd kick his ass and do it herself...which was a lot harder than it looked, so she was really banking on the former.

"Okay..." She landed on the roof and leaned over the edge, knocking on the black-tinted window with her left hand, "Come on, open up..." She held on to the roof tighter when the limo suddenly shook and she heard screams coming from the backseat, "Alright, that's it. No more Ms. Nice Spider." She needed to do this quick: Smash the windows, push the driver aside then hammer the break harder than her drums at band practice.

Of course, that would've been easier if the driver didn't look like fucking Willow Man.

Gwen felt her heart spike up in shock before she felt the comforting warmth in her stomach again, "What the fuck!?" she hissed. The driver looked...flat. No, that wasn't the proper word for it; he looked like he'd been turned into a large piece of paper, more drawing than man. She could see his arms still wrapped around the wheel loosely, but his head flapped with every shift and breeze that came into the car.

Definitely not normal.

"Let go of them!" She turned to the source of the voice and heard muffled grunts and screams coming from the backseat. She looked between the front and backseats and grimaced; which one? Stop the car or stop what was going on in the back seat? "I said step back before I-" The voice swerved to a sudden scream and she found herself webbing the the driver's foot to the breaks before jumping to the backseat. Hopefully it was enough to stop them from crashing into a horrific, fiery death...

Gwen smashed her hand through the window and jumped inside, "You're all going to wake the neighbors!" she said, the quip coming out more or less automatically. She knew that cause the sight in front of her would have stopped any kind of joking when she saw it.

Two teenagers huddled together in the back corner, the girl hiding the smaller blonde behind her in a vice-grip. At the floor of the limo she saw an older dark haired man in a suit lying on his back, his mouth twisted into a pained grimace even through he tried to muffle his screams. Even through her place next to the door she could see him clutching his left leg, the limb unnaturally thin like the poor driver up front.

Still, all of that paled to the figure draped in blue kneeling over him. A woman, she could tell that much, but the rest of her features were masked. Her outfit looked like something she'd see out of an Assassin's Oath game, and what little he could see of her hands exposed pale gray skin that she was pretty sure wasn't natural even in a world where radiation turned someone into a green-skinned amazon.

"Don't interfere!" she cried, head snapping towards her with a snarl. Gwen blinked at the sight of the unnaturally yellow, bloodshot eyes barely hidden underneath the thick hood, "They have to go! They have to!" She turned back to the two teens, stepping over the man grabbing at her leg to try and stop her, "They're a burden to him, he'll thank me when I'm done!"

"L-Leave us alone!" The girl cried, tears streaming down her cheeks.

"Hey, Enzio, look at me, not them!" She ejected a line of webbing at her shoulder and pulled, but the crazed assassin managed to keep her balance and look back at her with those chilling eyes again, 'Holy shit that's creepy...' She shivered and thanked small blessings that the car had at least slowed considerably, "Whatever problem you have I'm pretty sure that-"

"What do you know!?" she hissed, voice judgmental and manic. Definitely a crazy person, "You'll never understand! I have to do this!" She looked at the driver's seat and her mouth split in a massive grin, "You can't stop me."

Her body flattered, the webs slipping from her shoulders onto the floor with a dull thwack. Gwen's eyes widened and she ejected another line of webbing, but she slipped through the gaps and practically jumped through the window of the front seat before she completely reformed, "What are you-"

Gwen got her answer when she slammed her foot on the ignition, pulling out the webs holding the breaks down with an almost casual tug, 'Shit!' They were picking up speed, fast. The woman in blue turned around and gave them one last manic grin before she turned the wheel to the left and sent them on a collision course to the side of a building.

She moved on instinct. Before she could think twice about how crazy her plan was she grabbed the older man by the collar and dragged him towards the two teens. mentally apologizing for the pained grunts he gave at the rough treatment, "Hold on to me and stick close!" She wrapped her arms around them and concentrated. She fucked this up and she'd have 3 dead people on her conscience.

Gwen felt the familiar warmth cover her entire body before they were surrounded by what looked like a thick blanket of black. All noise disappeared, though the quiet lasted for only a brief moment before she felt powerful rumblings and the sound of bending and crunching metal pierced through the makeshift barrier, 'Fuck, that smarts!' She held onto the three of them tighter and bit her tongue to keep from screaming.

The din of twisting metal lasted for only a few seconds, but the screams of the two teens made it feel like hours. Gwen waited for a few more precious seconds before she separated from the three, the teens holding her arms and shoulders tightly even as their screaming died down, "It's alright. We're safe." She left out the 'I think' she was really tempted to say and sucked in a deep breath instead. Play it cool, act confident and just maybe they'd buy that she had any idea what the fuck she was doing.

She collapsed the barrier and winced at the the remains of the crushed limousine around them, 'Shit, that was close...' She mussed up her hood and let out a soft breath. Whoever that crazy bitch was she was gone, but a crowd was gathering around the crash site and boxing them in, 'Please tell me no one got crushed...' She looked to the front with wary eyes and relaxed slightly at the lack of blood on the concrete. Well...no one died in the crash, she'd take that as a victory.

Though now she wondered where the flattened driver was. Did she take him with her? Not a pleasant thought;

"...Are you two-"

"You saved us!" She let out a muted 'oof' when the the younger of the siblings - or at least she assumed the two were siblings - all but tackled her in a sudden embrace, "Th-That was amazing! I always wanted to meet you, but I didn't think it'd be like this-"

"Johnny, not now." The older teen pulled her brother off with firm hand, her voice lowered in a forced calm. If Gwen had to guess then she was probably the voice of reason, "Victor's hurt, we need to get him to a hospital."

"Right..." Gwen knelt down and looked at his flattened leg. It was odd; it didn't look injured, but the way it was compressed was unnatural. It was like someone turned his leg into dough and crushed it flat with a roller, "Are you alright? We need to take you to the hospital." Granted she had no clue what the fuck they were supposed to do about a villain turning people into gingerbread men, but she figured it was better than leaving it overnight with a bag of ice.

"Of course..." He took her offered hand and she slung his arm around her shoulder. He was obviously in pain, but he was making a heroic effort to hide it, "I...I'll be fine, but these two..." He looked to the elder sibling and gave a soft smile, "Susan, you need to hide. This woman's obviously crazed and I don't want you or Johnny getting hurt."

"B-But what about you?" she asked back.

"She was after you. I was only...collateral damage." He scowled down at his now useless leg before looking up to face Gwen, "I can make it to a hospital on my own, but these two...without someone to protect them that crazed killer's going to come back to try and finish the job."

"Yeah, I figured." She stood up straighter. The crowd was taking photos, but she couldn't find it in herself to care right at that moment, "I'll take them to the police station-"

"No!" he hissed, face morphing into a pained scowl before he quickly calmed, "You...You saw what that woman was capable of. If you put them in a place everyone knows then she'll find them and then she'll..." He trailed off and licked his lips, letting out a soft groan before he shook his head, "Find a place no one knows about and keep them there. Tell no one, not even me. That way if she tries to interrogate me I can't tell her."

"Victor, this isn't-"

"Don't argue with me, Susan. Not now." There was that smile again, "Just...Just drop me off nearby, I'll get to the hospital."

"If you're sure..." She waited for him to give a last nod before she looked at the two teens. They looked familiar, though she couldn't quite place it right at that second, "...I know a place." She adjusted his arm's place and pulled out her phone from another 'pocket'. The closest place here that didn't need government level access was..., 'He's gonna be pissed...' She sighed and tapped the speed dial.

This was gonna make one hell of a reunion.



Peter, as expected, wasn't happy.

"What made you think bringing them here was a good idea?" Peter asked, arms crossed and his glare obvious even underneath the new mask Cindy made him. She didn't know if it was her idea or his (though she was betting on the latter) to make the thing look like something out of a Plastic Cog game, but if he was trying to scare people then it was definitely working given the way Susan hid behind her, a vice-grip on Johnny's wrist.

...Oh yeah, and there was the little thing with her having Susan and Johnny Storm being chased by some deranged stalker. Cause that was a thing she was dealing with right now.

"I couldn't find anywhere else to take them." She sighed, voice soft. 3 days since they'd last seen one another and she really didn't want this to be the way they met up again after the clusterfuck their last face to face talk was, "Look, they're being chased by a stalker who can...I dunno, turn herself to paper? I didn't get a good look. Either way they're in danger and I can't just leave them."

"Why not take them to a police station? One of your 'Shield' facilities? Hell, even your apartment?" he countered, arms crossed tightly, "Why my place?"

"A police station won't work. These two are celebrities, someone's gonna blab and then they're gonna end up like that driver." She shuddered, ignoring the warmth in her stomach trying to calm her down, "S.H.I.E.L.D facilities are hard to get access to since I'm more a sanctioned hero than an actual employee and for my apartment...well, my roommate's out and unless you think Murderface can take on a Supervillain there's no way that's gonna work..."

"And what do you expect me to do?" His looked past her to the two siblings. Susan did her best to stand straight, though Gwen didn't miss the way her hands shook. Johnny seemed to take her best friend's attention much better; inasmuch as completely ignoring Peter was 'better'. The way he looked around the downtrodden apartment and wrinkled his nose made it clear where his thoughts were.

"Well...I was kinda hoping you'd stay and watch-"

"Not happening."

"-Over them or something." She paused and gave Peter an unreadable look, one that he didn't care about given the not-so-subtle scoff he gave, '...Shit.' She took a deep breath and steeled herself. This would be painful, "Come on, Pe- Spider-Man!...Please?" She clasped her hands together in a begging gesture. She hated begging, but she could whine and grovel with the best of them if she had to. If she could grovel to MJ about skipping practice because she needed more chocolate - thanks, Webster - then Pete should have been a walk in the park.

Sadly, he seemed to not give a single fuck.

"Forget it. You have friends with that organization of yours, use them." He clicked his tongue and looked away, "I'm busy enough as it is, I can't just drop it to play babysitter for a couple of kids."

"Look, Spider-Man, I know we left off on a piss poor note last time, but these kids are in real danger. I wouldn't have come here if I didn't need your help." She winced, though she did her best to hide it. Technically not true: She could have tried a few other contacts, but she couldn't deny that it was easier to talk to him with a justifiable reason. Despite his claims about not saying goodbye he was practically a ghost for the past 3 days and she got the feeling that if she didn't talk to him he'd be like that for the next 3 years.

Thankfully(?) he didn't get to answer before the door behind her opened, Lana's voice cutting through the awkward silence, "Hey, Pete, finished walking your dog! Did you know he really doesn't like...uh, what the fuck?" She stopped a couple of steps past the doorway, the puppy at her side - Cute! ...Er, focus - looking up at her worriedly with its tongue hanging out.

"This is...unexpected," Susan muttered, her shaking lessening at the sight of another girl the same age as her...wait, how old was she again? Johnny looked about 13 or 14 and she knew his sister was about a year or two older than him, but she wasn't sure. She usually watched their shows only when she was with the rest of her friends; she wasn't much of a fan of sitcoms unlike MJ and Glory's guilty little pleasures.

Which made the little guy asking her out 3 times in the 6 minutes it took for them to get here using lines from the show both depressing and funny. But hell, she figured it was better than him being a traumatized mess after what happened so she'd take all his 'You're my missing number' pick-up lines like a champ.

"Tell me about it. This place smells like a can of tuna." Johnny rubbed his nose and looked at Peter questioningly, "Hey, ain't you a Superhero? Why's your place so crappy-"

"Johnny!"

"What, it's true!" He shrugged, ignoring his sister's reproachful glare.

"Uh...I dunno what the fuck's going on, but something tells me I'm not gonna like it. So..." She nudged the pup forward with her foot and took a not-so-subtle step back, "I'm just gonna be visiting my friends till this is done. Good luck with...whatever the fuck this shit is-"

"Wait...actually, your timing's perfect." Peter finally uncrossed his arms and let out a soft breath, "Something tells me Spider-Woman's not gonna let up on this little side-project of hers, so I need you to watch over these two while I'm gone."

"What!? Why me!?" she snapped back, "Why don't you get that Bullseye guy to do it!?"

"I haven't talked to Bullseye since we left that facility, you know that-"

"Yeah, yeah. Cause he told you he loves you and and wants to have your babies and bla bla bla." Gwen raised an eyebrow. That was certainly new...and more than tad annoying, "Dude, you got him out of fucking Supermax, of course he's gonna say stupid shit. Just talk to him, cause I swear watching you two dance around each other is worse than the last season of Fantastic 4."

"Hey!" Johnny cried, though everyone ignored him.

"I'll talk to him, but do this for me first, would you? All you have to do is stay here, and it's not like you have school. Or did I miss something and you have to go on the weekends?"

"Fine, you ass." She rolled her eyes and frowned, "But you owe me big for this. I could've been out with Chat and Kamala, instead I gotta fucking babysit a couple of whiny kids cause...uh, why again?"

"Being chased by a deranged stalker who can turn people to Willow Man..." Gwen answered. It sort of scared her how...normal something like that sounded. Granted 'normal' stopped making sense for years now, and that was before her best friend came back to life. Now she had what was possibly an alien attached to her and she honestly couldn't muster enough of a fuck to worry given that Cap's tests were proving jack fucking shit apart from the fact that Webster was a chocolate hound who didn't take no for an answer.

"I'm the same age you are, you know..." Susan mumbled, though Lana just gave the blonde another roll of the eyes, "Look, I appreciate your helping us with this, Spider-Woman, but if we're being a bother-"

"No, of course not. We're happy to help," she said, completely ignoring the way both Peter and Lana glared at her, "Look, I called my friend already and she put me in touch with a friend of hers. A private investigator that specializes in stuff like this, or so she says." She really fucking hoped Jessica wasn't just trying to find an excuse to get rid of her and get some alone time with her dad now that Kate was off in L.A doing some family thing...

"Great, then you don't need me," Peter said, "Just meet this guy of yours and-"

"Actually, I do." Gwen grabbed his collar and pulled before he could move past her, "You're the investigator here, Spider-Man, not me. I mean I can lure a pack of Lizards out no prob, but something tells me stalker chick's not gonna be lured by a bunch of corndogs. So I'm gonna need your help to..." She trailed off and look down when she felt something pawing at her right leg. It didn't take her long to catch sight of the pug scratching at her shin, its teeth bared in an (adorable) growl.

Honestly, she might have felt more intimidated if the thing wasn't just barely bigger than her foot with the high pitched whine of a chihuahua.

"...Looks like someone's taking offense." He knelt down and scratched at its chin, the little guy immediately calming at the contact and nudging his nose to Peter's gloved palm, "It's alright, boy. I won't let the big bad Spider-Woman get me."

"Not funny." She rolled her eyes, though she could already see Lana and Johnny snickering, "Look, just help me out with this, would you? I don't need anything big, but your P.I skills are better than mine and Jess is kinda busy so..."

"Yeah, I get it." He sighed and stood up, "Come on, lets go visit your friend."

The walk down the hall was painfully quiet, broken only by the noises coming from inside the various rooms lining the hall...and most of them were some variation of 'oh god!' that she was pretty sure weren't coming from prayers, 'This is where he lives?' She figured it'd be bad and Cap warned her when she gave her the address, but this was...well, she wasn't gonna mince words; this place was a shithole and made her small-ass apartment look like the Taj Mahal.

God, she couldn't take the silence. Maybe some conversation would make the walk faster.

"So Bullseye's in love with you?"

...Why did she hate herself? Why?

He glared at her for a few seconds before he let out a sigh, "No, I'm pretty sure he was just grateful I got him out of the hands of your spook friends. He's been running from them for years, so I'm not surprised he was excited when he realized he didn't have to run anymore." He stuffed his hands into the pockets of his cargo pants, "I'll talk to him soon, clear this all up."

"And if...it wasn't a misunderstanding?"

"Guess that's for me to know and you to keep your nose out of." He trudged down the stairs, completely ignoring the frustrated yell she made. Sometimes she wondered if he was always a jerk or he went out of his way to be an asshole just for her, "...Speaking of questions, I got one of my own; what the hell is that thing on you? You've had it since we left that butcher shop."

"What...thing?" Yes, play dumb. That would solve the problem (sarcasm), "If you're talking about my costume then it's nothing. Just thought I needed a change of pace, you know? I mean you make the all-black look work so I figured-"

"I saw that thing moving when we talked in the apartment. It's alive."

"Um..." Yeah...she had nothing. Gwen took a deep breath and quickened her pace so they were walking shoulder to shoulder, "Look, Peter, I got no clue what this is. I got it when we raided the S.I.L.K base and I would've gotten killed if it didn't bail my ass out. I mean so far all it's made me do is get me addicted to chocolate, and if its evil plan is to kill me with diabetes then I think I can manage."

"They always said not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but after what happened to us both blindly accepting seems no better." He clenched his right hand and let out a frustrated exhale, "Just be careful with that thing. I've got enough trouble as it is without you piling on top of it."

"Aww, you do care." She pinched his cheeks through the mask. Considering he didn't swat her hand away or snarl she considered it a marked improvement from last time, "Trust me, Cap's doing tests and we're being careful with monitoring. If Webster's gonna go crazy then they're on top of it, 100 percent." She stretched her hands above her head, "Till then it's useful and I'm not gonna say no to a free power up."

"Webster...what, does it drive your limo, too?"

"She totally needs ninja stars shaped like spiders, right?

"Mmm...nah, sounds dangerous."

"Okay, how about a little spider butler named Webster? To drive her limo."

"Yeah. I don't know, Peter. I doubt Spider-Woman can afford a limo driver."


"You remember-"

"Parker's memories, not mine," he interrupted, stubbornly refusing to face her, "...Look, I didn't mean to bring it up, alright? It just...came out, so lets just drop it."

"Why are you so scared to talk to me?" She stopped and grabbed his shoulder, "Look, whatever this is you can't just bottle it up, okay? Whether you like it or not this involves all of us, so we need to work together. We both want the same thing-"

"Do we?" He shrugged off her shoulder and turned to face her properly, "You want your best friend back, the little kid who turned into a monster because people bullied him, because he had a crush on you and Osborn threatened that. He and I aren't the same no matter how many times you pray for a miracle from God. He's gone...and you're not getting him back."

"Fine, then do one thing for me." She stood up straighter and did her best to keep her voice level, "Look me in the eyes and tell me that this place doesn't feel even a little like home. That you don't feel anything and only see a stranger when you look at me. Just tell me that and I'll drop it."

The silence lasted for a few painful, lingering seconds before he finally spoke up, "...Come on, lets meet that friend of yours." He trudged down the hall, pointedly ignoring the increasingly louder moans and cries that came from above them.

...Somehow it didn't feel like she won that.



"So...what can I do for you two?"

A talking duck...she was looking at a talking duck.

Gwen's mouth parted open, nothing but choked words coming out in strangled gasps at the sight in front of her. She thought being bonded to a possible alien and her best friend coming back from the dead was the weirdest thing she'd dealt with, seeing an anthropomorphic duck sitting behind a desk with a stack of papers on one hand and a cigar on the other caused her to nearly double over in shock.

She looked to Peter and gestured to the duck frantically, hands moving through the air in a chaotic buzz. Peter just looked back at her and shrugged, not saying a single word or even indicating that he cared at all about the bizarre sight in front of him.

"Uh...hello, you two just gonna stand there?" The duck - Howard, she reminded herself - took a lazy drag of the cigar and gave them both a pointed look, "Jones called on ahead, said something about a couple of heroes coming to visit, but she was kinda light on the details. So I'd really appreciate it if you two-"

"You're a talking duck!"

An awkward quiet settled over the room, broken only when the talking duck in question - Howard, she had to remember that! - took a long drag of the cigar (how did he do that with a beak!?) and looked at her like she was the crazy one.

"...Yeah, and you two are Spider people. Your point?" He lowered the stack of papers and walked in front of them...he was really short, though she supposed she should have seen that coming, "Look, Jones pulled a favor and said you two needed help. Didn't ask what it was cause I figured she was good for it, but if one of you's just going to make fun of me and the other's gonna stand still like a statue I ain't buying it."

"No...no, we do need your help." Gwen coughed, "Jess told us you were an expert on...odd cases, and we really need your help with this woman who turns herself flat and kills people by turning em into paper. I mean, I know this sounds crazy, but-"

"Ah geez, her again?" He let out a 'waauugh!' that definitely didn't sound natural, "That crazy broad's been making hell for some of my clients. Never managed to catch the twist, so I'll do this one for free." He picked up his fedora and fastened it on his head. Gwen had to admit it looked oddly flattering, "I'm curious, though; what's a couple of Superheroes care about some stalker? Don't you two got bigger fish to try?"

"I do, but Spider-Woman was insistent on wanting a 'partner' with her." Peter put a hand on his chin and made a noise at the back of his throat, "...You're not from here, are you?"

"Figure that out all on your own, Einstein?" Howard rolled his eyes and pulled out another cigar from...somewhere, "No, came through here on a 'dimensional nexus' or whatever you wanna call it. My world doesn't have hairless apes running around telling everyone else what to do, and I sure as hell ain't the president back where I came from."

"Wait minute..." Gwen looked back the plaque on the door, "Howard T. Duck...are you saying you're the dimensional counterpart of the president!?"

"Ding ding ding, we have a winner!" he replied sarcastically, "Yeah, I came to this place and the version a' me in this world is the president. Who knew?" He gave a sardonic smile...again, how he did that with a beak she had no fucking clue, "All I know is I'm trapped in this mudhole and I can't get out. Surprised I haven't gone crazy like the rest of the hairless apes in this madhouse."

She swore she heard Peter suck in a deep gasp, but when she looked he was standing as still as he always was. Before she could ask him what the deal was he pulled his hands out of his pockets and offered his right hand towards the small duck, "While you tell us the details about how you know this crazy dame, want me to buy you a drink? I could use one right about now."

"Spider-Man, what are you-"

"Hey, I won't say no to free drinks." Howard shook Peter's hand firmly before putting on his coat, "Huh...you know it's pretty rare to see someone who doesn't freak out about my downy good looks. You should see the rest of this little asylum; most of em think I'm a midget in a duck costume and a few tried to eat me. Nice to see someone who doesn't belong in a padded cell."

"Duck...I get the feeling you and I are gonna get along great."

Gwen watched the two go, completely ignoring her standing slack-jawed in the middle of the small detective agency, "...Did that just happen?" she asked aloud, getting no answer as expected. Right now only one thing was going through her mind.

What the fuck was going on?




Done. Hopefully it was light enough for everyone, but if not then apologies since I don't have a good sense of humor; probably why I find writing Noir's segments easier. Anyway, the choices between the 2 arcs were actually pretty close, but Storm Killer surged up by a wide margin in the 2nd or 3rd day so this is what we get.

Here's a question that I'm sure most people won't answer: I've seen people comment that they wanted PGH because they enjoyed Noir's character or his more cynical tone, so I wonder if you guys would have liked the fic as much if I didn't make Noir ultra cynical and much more grounded like, say, his Shattered Dimensions counterpart or used another Spidey altogether.

Likewise, what about Gwen? If I made a pure Spider-Gwen fic would you guys have read it? What about a pure Noir fic? One of the main points of the fic is the interaction between the two leads, but I wonder if they're strong enough to carry a fic all on their own or they need each other to play foil and keep things from going stagnant. What do you guys think?

For a more lighthearted question: Anyone have any suggestions for the name of Noir's dog? Calling it 'dog' made sense at first since it showed how lazy Noir was, but I can't see Lana not pushing him to give it a name or something. Any opinions? Anything but Webster works since Gwen took it for Venom...
 
Last edited:
So...my main laptop broke halfway through writing this, which made finishing the chapter a real fucking pain in the ass.
Aww...

That sucks. Sorry :(

"Duck...I get the feeling you and I are gonna get along great."

Gwen watched the two go, completely ignoring her standing slack-jawed in the middle of the small detective agency, "...Did that just happen?" she asked aloud, getting no answer as expected. Right now only one thing was going through her mind.
...

My coworkers are giving me weird looks due to the outburst of hyena cackles this inspired.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

I'm freaking dead!

Here's a question that I'm sure most people won't answer: I've seen people comment that they wanted PGH because they enjoyed Noir's character or his more cynical tone, so I wonder if you guys would have liked the fic as much if I didn't make Noir ultra cynical and much more grounded like, say, his Shattered Dimensions counterpart or used another Spidey altogether.

Likewise, what about Gwen? If I made a pure Spider-Gwen fic would you guys have read it? What about a pure Noir fic? One of the main points of the fic is the interaction between the two leads, but I wonder if they're strong enough to carry a fic all on their own or they need each other to play foil and keep things from going stagnant. What do you guys think?

Heh...

So, funny-story here, I haven't read the Noir Comics yet or even played Shattered Dimensions so your Noir was actually the first version I've encountered and it was (in large part) because I liked your portrayal so much that I stuck with the story.

(In fact I found myself cringing at times during a let's play of Shattered Dimensions because of how cheerful it's Noir was compared to yours :D. I like him better here)

So I can safely say that your Noir can stand on his own in my opinion. Ditto for your Gwen (tho to be fair I do like Noir POV's Better) since I didn't care enough about the character prior to this to even read her comics. (thankfully I have amended that :oops:)

I guess what I'm getting at is that while the crossover was what initially intrigued me enough to start reading, your portrayal of the characters... the 'voice' you give them is what got me hooked. And like I said before, that is an achievement since I had never cared enough about these characters to read their comics prior to this.

Kudos to you :).

For a more lighthearted question: Anyone have any suggestions for the name of Noir's dog? Calling it 'dog' made sense at first since it showed how lazy Noir was, but I can't see Lana not pushing him to give it a name or something. Any opinions? Anything but Webster works since Gwen took it for Venom...
Argh!

Webster would have been so perfect! :cry:

Hmm, I'll have to give it some thought...
 
Last edited:
Hmm, I do recommend reading through the Noir comics since I take a lot of cues from Peter's characterization from Eyes without a Face and his Web Warriors focus chapter. Not as much the first one since it ended with Peter rather weirdly deciding 'good guys always win', which is a pretty odd thing for a Noir protagonist to say.

Likewise, he doesn't really seem cheerful in Shattered Dimensions but rather just less angsty. If you look at his behavior in the Vulture chapter you can see he's repressing a lot of anger seems to want to kill Toomes; helped immensely by the voice talents of Christopher Daniel Barnes. He's less angry come the Goblin stage, which is weird but I'm not bugged too much about it.
 
wow, that Howard and Noir interaction was fucking beautiful, just perfect.

  1. I like Noir "sober" but if you want him more relaxed then it's fine as long as he doesn't lose the confrontational tone you gave him.
  2. Going full "For want of a nail" fic is fine but this premise seems more interesting.
  3. Noir in 65-land could work by himself but I think they need each other to play foil, not as interesting otherwise.
  4. Name the dog Tony or Buddy.
 
Last edited:
So!

Names for the dog... here are the ones off the top of my head.

Noir could always go old-school with the classic Spot/Rover/Fido.

Spider-Pug is a funny one, I could totally see Lana calling him that whatever Noir ends up naming him.

Anansi because f#ck you Spider God, I'ma give your name to my dog! :p

Lockjaw, because making the Earth-65 version of Lockjaw be an un-powered pug greatly amuses me. :D

-Edit-

Noir: "Here Anansi! Here boy! "

Moon Knight: :o "Fool! You know not what you- "

*derpy looking pug runs in*

Noir: "Good Boy" ;)

Moon Knight: :jackiechan:

The Pariah: :facepalm:

The Bride/Gatekeeper/Etc: :rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
Last edited:
wow, that Howard and Noir interaction was fucking beautiful, just perfect.

  1. I like Noir "sober" but if you want him more relaxed then it's fine as long as he doesn't lose the confrontational tone you gave him.
  2. Going full "For want of a nail" fic is fine but this premise seems more interesting.
  3. Noir in 65-land could work by himself but I think they need each other to play foil, not as interesting otherwise.
  4. Name the dog Tony or Buddy.

By confrontational do you mean his weirdly antagonistic behavior? Cause I thought that was one of the things people would want me to change. I mean Gwen even wonders in the chapter whether he's naturally just a jerkass or he goes out of his way to be like that for her. As for the relationship and playing foil, I can only hope that it hasn't gotten tiring now that they're all stuck in yet another rut.

So!

Names for the dog... here are the ones off the top of my head.

Noir could always go old-school with the classic Spot/Rover/Fido.

Spider-Pug is a funny one, I could totally see Lana calling him that whatever Noir ends up naming him.

Anansi because f#ck you Spider God, I'ma give your name to my dog! :p

Lockjaw, because making the Earth-65 version of Lockjaw be an un-powered pug greatly amuses me. :D

-Edit-

Noir: "Here Anansi! Here boy! "

Moon Knight: :o "Fool! You know not what you- "

*derpy looking pug runs in*

Noir: "Good Boy" ;)

Moon Knight: :jackiechan:

The Pariah: :facepalm:

The Bride/Gatekeeper/Etc: :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Note you're not the first one to name him Spider-Pug; guess it's not a large leap considering how often he insists on calling himself Spider-Man despite the fact that it's not much better than The Dark Spider. As for naming it Anansi, somehow I don't think even Peter's that suicidally devoted to antagonizing the one thing that's giving him powers. Especially not now when he has the Hand, SILK, Shield and Jack-o-Lantern after him.

General Note - For Gwen's character, I've seen at least a few comments noting that a pure Spider-Gwen fic wouldn't be as interesting - or that this fic made them interested in reading the canon comics, which is very ego-boosting - simply because she feels just a tad too similar to 616 and Ultimate. I have to ask, though; is that necessarily a bad thing? I mean Spider-Man has always had a theme going for him, and Spider-Gwen fits that theme while Noir really doesn't.

I think a good chunk of us here are going to be watching Homecoming, and that's just more Spider-Man dealing with the double life responsibilities that the comics and Raimi trilogy have rehashed to oblivion. Likewise while Noir doesn't specifically rehash a part of Spidey lore aside from chunks of Scarlet Spider, he's not much different from many generic fanfic anti-heroes and he's a cliche in his own way despite my attempts to write him somewhat differently.

So what specifically makes Gwen any worse than Noir given that they both bring up different parts of their genres? Note that I'm not complaining that they're not original; nowadays it's truly hard to find a character that hasn't been done the same way in some past work. Rather I'm wondering why Gwen's considered less 'absorbing' (is that the right word?) compared to Noir despite them being both characters with their own issues and whatnot.

Also, just saw the Cloak and Dagger trailer for the MCU, and I only have one thing to say: Where's Moon Knight!? We need more Marc Spector in our lives!
 
So what specifically makes Gwen any worse than Noir given that they both bring up different parts of their genres? Note that I'm not complaining that they're not original; nowadays it's truly hard to find a character that hasn't been done the same way in some past work. Rather I'm wondering why Gwen's considered less 'absorbing' (is that the right word?) compared to Noir despite them being both characters with their own issues and whatnot.
A lot of people like Batman more than Super-man.

"Sam the Pug" is a good name.
 
Sam the Pug...don't get the reference, but eh.

Random question for anyone, but I'm curious on Gwen's behavior: Is everybody okay with her essentially deciding Noir's more or less 65-Peter and treating him as such despite his own protests to the contrary? While it's not really a focus point, she does try to needle him to do things like talk to the Parkers or have a 'family dinner' again like last time throughout the entire rest of the arc whenever they're not too busy investigating PaperDoll. I'm curious if this is alright or might be seen as her being annoying.
 
Sam the Pug...don't get the reference, but eh.
It's a reference to Sam Spade from the Maltese Falcon, classic Noir.

Random question for anyone, but I'm curious on Gwen's behavior: Is everybody okay with her essentially deciding Noir's more or less 65-Peter and treating him as such despite his own protests to the contrary? While it's not really a focus point, she does try to needle him to do things like talk to the Parkers or have a 'family dinner' again like last time throughout the entire rest of the arc whenever they're not too busy investigating PaperDoll. I'm curious if this is alright or might be seen as her being annoying.
It's not really 'okay' but it is something that makes perfect sense for her to do at this point.

In her mind she's at long last been proven right, he IS Peter-65, so she is being helpful by trying to get him to 'remember' and fit back into place. There's alot of 'fixing what I broke' mixed in there too, which is a natural response. It's the kind of thing you'd see when... let's say a vet comes home changed by war and his family tries to 'help' him/her pick-up where he/she left off. Or someone recovers from brain damage/cancer/etc and isn't the same afterwards, people try to 'help' them get back to 'normal' until they realize that it's not going to happen.

It's not okay but it's part of the process. That being said I fully see it blowing up in her face at some point :V,

As for annoying... Kinda? But at the same time it would be really weird if she didn't do it :/ , especially after getting the 'good news' from Cap who's the supposed expert on stuff like this.
 
It's a reference to Sam Spade from the Maltese Falcon, classic Noir.


It's not really 'okay' but it is something that makes perfect sense for her to do at this point.

In her mind she's at long last been proven right, he IS Peter-65, so she is being helpful by trying to get him to 'remember' and fit back into place. There's alot of 'fixing what I broke' mixed in there too, which is a natural response. It's the kind of thing you'd see when... let's say a vet comes home changed by war and his family tries to 'help' him/her pick-up where he/she left off. Or someone recovers from brain damage/cancer/etc and isn't the same afterwards, people try to 'help' them get back to 'normal' until they realize that it's not going to happen.

It's not okay but it's part of the process. That being said I fully see it blowing up in her face at some point :V,

As for annoying... Kinda? But at the same time it would be really weird if she didn't do it :/ , especially after getting the 'good news' from Cap who's the supposed expert on stuff like this.

I actually did watch Maltese Falcon, so doh on me I guess.

As for Gwen's behavior, I'm just hoping this doesn't make her seem unsympathetic and callous given that she's generally the nicer and more heroic of the pair. Especially given that Storm Killer's meant to be far more lighthearted; hence why Noir doesn't get a single POV in the entire arc. If he did he'd bring down the mood because he'd say some boring stuff about how PaperDoll became obsessive towards people due to manifesting her powers in an extremely traumatic manner and her parents abandoning her and not providing love and care out of fear and disgust. Or that they might have to kill her since it's likely her obsession's incurable and she'll be a danger to the Storms as long as she's alive.

So yeah...none of that heavy stuff. This is just fun, fun, fun! :D

I'm also wondering if her mindset can be considered rational given that, whoever he is, Noir's so different from 65-Peter that her getting her best friend back is a pipe dream at best. That and it seems to suffer from the problem of '...And then what?' with the goal not ending well: Even if he actually accepts this she doesn't magically change him from being a murderous vigilante who fights monsters like Tombstone, Muse and Jack-o-Lantern. Is she suddenly cool with him doing this if he just caves to her demands and 'admits' he's 65-Peter?
 
As for Gwen's behavior, I'm just hoping this doesn't make her seem unsympathetic and callous given that she's generally the nicer and more heroic of the pair.
Nah.

While her behavior is kinda annoying at times, it's also very understandable considering the circumstances.

I'm also wondering if her mindset can be considered rational given that, whoever he is, Noir's so different from 65-Peter that her getting her best friend back is a pipe dream at best. That and it seems to suffer from the problem of '...And then what?' with the goal not ending well: Even if he actually accepts this she doesn't magically change him from being a murderous vigilante who fights monsters like Tombstone, Muse and Jack-o-Lantern. Is she suddenly cool with him doing this if he just caves to her demands and 'admits' he's 65-Peter?
Hmm...

I'd say her mindset isn't entirely rational, but then again neither are emotions in general, but it is completely rational that she would have a such a mindset considering the situation.

If that makes sense?

She would have to be crazy if she could simply give up on wanting the good ol' days back without trying everything and anything, especially when it seems so possible with Noir walking around in what Cap confirmed to be Peter-65's body. On some level I'm sure she knows that it's not going to happen, that there are real problems that won't go away even if she did succeed, but people are good at ignoring inconvenient truths. :(

I think whether or not it becomes more annoying/irrational greatly depends on how long she keeps it up when faced with evidence that it isn't going to happen.

(I apologize if my words failed me here, it made sense in my head)
 
Nah.

While her behavior is kinda annoying at times, it's also very understandable considering the circumstances.


Hmm...

I'd say her mindset isn't entirely rational, but then again neither are emotions in general, but it is completely rational that she would have a such a mindset considering the situation.

If that makes sense?

She would have to be crazy if she could simply give up on wanting the good ol' days back without trying everything and anything, especially when it seems so possible with Noir walking around in what Cap confirmed to be Peter-65's body. On some level I'm sure she knows that it's not going to happen, that there are real problems that won't go away even if she did succeed, but people are good at ignoring inconvenient truths. :(

I think whether or not it becomes more annoying/irrational greatly depends on how long she keeps it up when faced with evidence that it isn't going to happen.

(I apologize if my words failed me here, it made sense in my head)

Gwen's an odd case from what I've read: In the canon she bitterly notes in narration that even if she did beat Harry Osborn it won't change anything: She's still wanted by the police, Peter's still dead and in the best case scenario one of her other best friends gets arrested; which she doesn't want. Despite this she still tries for the redemption play and let's Harry go despite him attempting to murder her God only knows how many times that night and even after all the crimes he's done.

I'm faced with the same conundrum here. Gwen clearly wants to try and make up for what she's done that night at prom, but she also has to acknowledge that Peter's so warped that he's basically a stranger and that she still disapproves of him killing people and the fact that he's such a shitty guardian for Lana. This reaches critical mass in the PGH arc due to Harry's reappearance causing a lot of strain between the dynamics among the three, particularly given that 65-Peter's death is what caused them to go full bore in taking up their masked identities of Spider-Woman and Green Goblin and yet now 'Peter's' a masked vigilante himself.

BTW, should we take this to PM? We're clogging up the thread a bit. Just reply there if you think so :)
 
Back
Top