There is also the fact that, well, we're talking about a variant Zoroark here. Generally trainers looking for a more subserviant relationship would probably look for a pokemon that isn't known for holding grudges and murdering humans over said grudges.
This Weightless Fall (Pokémon SI)
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Despite the game mechanics firmly establishing the opposite
. At least in the mainline games. You never have a player character's mon deciding that they're no longer interested, and quitting the team. The fundamental problem is that it's tricky to have the "equal partners" angle coexist with, "I wanna be the very best!", so the games don't really try. Instead they just have the story push the former and the mechanics the latter.That's a pretty big leap to make. Most RPGs don't have party members quit permanently outside of death either. That doesn't imply Barret is somehow subservient to Cloud.Despite the game mechanics firmly establishing the opposite
SilverShadows
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The game mechanics actually imply the exact opposite. Friendship and affection are literally both in game mechanics since generation 1 that have only become increasingly more broken over time. Multiple games have had various different kinds of ways to display how your pokemon partners feel about you.Despite the game mechanics firmly establishing the opposite
From varying following pokemon reactions, even going so far as pikachu being visibly anxious about being separated from you by a ledge all the way back in yellow version, to the footprint checkers in gen 4 messages giving direct messages about how strongly the pokemon feels about you.
In the most recent games pokemon display their affection physically when it off their pokeballs too, frequently running circles around their trainer, running up to them to show affection, and even generally choosing to sleep as physically close to the player as they can get if you go afk.
Considering pokemon are mechanically a literally infinite number of randomly generated party members from over a thousand templates rather than defined individually created characters, that's already an astounding amount of characterization put into how they feel about you in the mechanics of the game.
Competitive norms go against the message of pokemon with its emphasis on breeding for "perfect" pokemon and using them as very specific toolset "builds" but Competitive Pokemon is very much NOT how the games are actually intended to be played.
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1. I used quitting as an extreme example to easily get my point across. It does happen in some RPGs, but never in creature battlers.
2. In most RPGs with party systems, you play as all of the characters in the party. In Pokémon you play as one character ordering the others around. If Barret quit the party, players would expect the game to continue telling his story. Have the occasional interlude cutscene from his perspective, plonk him in a town where you can talk to him as an NPC, that sort of thing. But if Pokémon added a mechanic where your mons could quit the party, then when it happened the game would immediately forget that they ever existed.
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There was Black/White 2 where you could catch the various Pokémon N had for his teams after seeing the cutscene "Meeting Friends, Saying Good-Bye".
Every last one has max friendship, set Natures (with the most battle-hungry seeming one being Rash), and lists him as their original trainer, and he did have the ability to understand them.
Really, that's just a limitation of GameFreak's coding ability (and Nintendo's hardware to support it). Gameplay and Story segregation is a fairly typical thing, among many different series. The anime and manga can (and do) easily support it, and even the games have plenty of Pokémon choose to join the Player (whether you want them to or not, I'm looking at you Ogrepon).
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I think that supports my side more than yours. Black and White 1 and 2 are the exception that proves the rule on this subject, and even then, this was the best example you could come up with.
When you trade pokemon, they remember ttheir original trainer, and so does the game.
So, no. The games absolutely COULD set up scenarios where your pokemon leave and also the game remembers, the question is, would that ACTUALLY play into the fantasy?
EDIT: and yes, if you trade a pokemon to someone else and then you two reverse the trade, your pokemon DO in fact, remember that YOU are the original trainer.(not an uncommon way to get trade evo's done).
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You're missing the point.
My argument with the quitting hypothetical is that the game mechanics signal that Pokémon have no value beyond how they can benefit their trainer, and that they have no agency.
The trading mechanics are not a counterexample. When a Pokémon gets traded, they go from bringing value to one trainer to bringing value to another trainer. A trade and reverse-trade is not like them quitting; it's like the trainer firing and then rehiring them. They still don't have any agency.
My argument with the quitting hypothetical is that the game mechanics signal that Pokémon have no value beyond how they can benefit their trainer, and that they have no agency.
The trading mechanics are not a counterexample. When a Pokémon gets traded, they go from bringing value to one trainer to bringing value to another trainer. A trade and reverse-trade is not like them quitting; it's like the trainer firing and then rehiring them. They still don't have any agency.
Railyn
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This whole discussion has been pretty interesting, but at this point I feel like I have to interject because I really have no idea where you're going with this.
...in large part because while I do like talking about how game narrative and mechanics mesh and clash, I don't think it necessarily has a lot of relevance to fanfiction.
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I think it really depends on the personality of the trainer. Most Pokemon are very instinct and emotion driven, so they're not good at making logistical or tactical decisions. With that in mind, a trainer taking that role in the partnership makes sense. So just because trainers make the decisions doesn't mean that they're the owner- just that they're the team leader/planner. Rather than author and artist, I'd liken it to author and editor. Sure, some editors boss around their writers or directly tell them how certain parts should be written, but as someone who's betad before, some writers need that sort of relationship. It doesn't mean a good editor won't be able to adapt to, say, an author who does a lot of their editing themselves (Zoroark).
Basically, I think that the MC won't have a typical relationship, and that will maybe take some adjusting to, but trainers boss around Pokemon because that's what their partner needs. If the MC needs someone more like a friend and consultant than a coach, I think a lot of trainers can make that work.
Of course, none of this applies if we're just talking about an inexperienced kid. Kids aren't the best at empathy, and they get frustrated when things don't go the way they expect. A more experienced trainer will be fine though.
Basically, I think that the MC won't have a typical relationship, and that will maybe take some adjusting to, but trainers boss around Pokemon because that's what their partner needs. If the MC needs someone more like a friend and consultant than a coach, I think a lot of trainers can make that work.
Of course, none of this applies if we're just talking about an inexperienced kid. Kids aren't the best at empathy, and they get frustrated when things don't go the way they expect. A more experienced trainer will be fine though.
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@Young Pyromancer I guess I'll just say I hope this version of the Pokémon world works that way.
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This is explicitly wrong in canon. Remember, all information we have on the subject states that people who treat their Pokemon as tools aren't people society regards all that well. Every truly powerful trainer we encounter in Pokemon with the sole exception of Ghetsis utilizes positive expressions of the bond between a Pokemon and trainer. The anime drives this point even further home, and Horizons (The new anime) drives this point home even further. Nevermind all of the more obscure lore that outright states that Pokemon and Humans used to get married, some other lore I'm probably forgetting in the moment, and the fact that there's several examples of Pokemon who were abused by other trainers overcoming the shackles of that abuse and becoming more as a result under the caring hands of a friend.
There's a reason friendship mechanics are utterly busted, and have been since Gen VI. Mind, Gen VI required actual investment into a side game to gain the benefit of those mechanics, but they have been there for almost ten years now. Heck, SwSh and ScarVi require outright that you interact with the Picnic and Camping minigames to get max friendship, afaik.
Competitive Pokemon should not be taken as an example of how Pokemon would actually work within the world either, nor should the mechanics of the game. Sure, you can draw some educated guesses on what things might look like in the Pokemon world from the games, but why would you do that when you have several years worth of Anime and Manga who do it, frankly, far better. If you want Nobledark, go read Adventures. If you want something that's mostly just Noblebright but occasionally slips into Nobledark, go watch any of the anime.
Sorry for the block of replies and post. It irritates me to see people posting that "People who treat their Pokemon like actual partners are the exception not the norm" when literally every data point we have refutes this.
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SilverShadows
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Yes? I agree? My point was that Competetive Pokemon is the only aspect of the games that actually mechanically supports that argument and it's so far beyond what you actually need or are expected to do playing the game itself to completion it doesn't even represent how one is expected to treat or bond with their pokemon in the games mechanics, never mind the lore or anime.
Miho Chan
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My bad, I was mostly refuting the initial post (not yours) and forgot to make that clear
A better, more direct comparison is of a team and their a coach. There's also the mentality of pokemon to consider, most are far more simple-minded than humans are, outside of a few rare examples, and would never be able to navigate human society alone even without the language barrier. Sure, a trainer's pokemon may be not much more than glorified pets a lot of the time, but just like pets in reality the trade of autonomy for a massive jump in quality of life (and for pokemon a greatly increased power ceiling) isn't a bad deal at all.
Just imagination
Railyn
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You can blame @egoo for this one. He put the idea in my head and then it wouldn't leave until I typed it out.
If you want to chat about my writing, or about anything else that catches your fancy, I've got a Discord server here.
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If you want to chat about my writing, or about anything else that catches your fancy, I've got a Discord server here.
If you like my writing enough to tip me some money, I've got a Ko-fi page set up here.
"...and then I play a PokéStop, which removes your Area Zero Underdepths from play." Tyler looked up from the game to meet his opponent's eyes.
"Alright. I'll discard a Gengar and a Fan Rotom from my Bench," she said, moving both of the named cards and her negated Stadium to her discard pile delicately.
Tyler's opponent had a faint smile on her pale face despite the setback, which worried him. He'd been playing the Pokémon Battles card game for long enough to know when he was on the back foot, and his opponent had definitely put him on the back foot with her Variant Zoroark VSTAR deck. When that card had been printed a little while ago, he'd thought it was interesting, but the hard limit on its damage had kept it from getting a foothold in the metagame.
Not for the first time, he was berating himself internally for not realizing that the Tera Pokémon support in the new set would make Variant Zoroark VSTAR an actual threat. He'd left his Charizard ex vulnerable, thinking that its high HP stat would keep it from getting KO'd by Zoroark's attack before he could strike back, but then that stupid Area Zero Underdepths had expanded his opponent's Bench.
A few self-damaging Pokémon cards and a Damage Pump later, and he'd seen his Charizard get taken out in one hit, leaving him scrambling as the other player just kept taking prize cards.
"I'll activate the PokéStop Stadium ability to discard three cards from the top of my deck," Tyler announced. Anxiously, he flipped three cards into his discard pile—Rare Candy, Charmeleon, and Professor's Research. He pulled the Rare Candy off of the pile, showing it to his opponent who simply inclined her head, before putting the card in his hand.
Tyler looked down at the few cards he had available. He might not be in the ideal position, but maybe he could still make this work after all. He just had to keep her from getting set back up before those last two prize cards were gone.
He looked back at the girl across the table, who just continued to smile back at him from behind her long white hair. What was her name again? He'd have to ask later so he could stay in contact; he could definitely use someone to help him practice this matchup.
"I'll play a Capturing Aroma," he decided, placing the card on the table in front of him. The outcome of the game would probably come down to this coin flip. Tyler let out a breath, then picked up the coin and sent it spinning into the air. Both players' eyes followed its path closely as it came down—heads!
Riffling through his deck, Tyler put a card from it on the table between the players. "I'll put a Charizard ex into my hand." Before replacing his deck, he put the Rare Candy card he'd gotten earlier onto the table as well. "Rare Candy, evolve my active Charmander into Charizard ex, which will activate Charizard's Infernal Reign ability. I'll grab two basic Fire energy from my deck to attach to it before shuffling," he finished, putting actions to words.
As he shuffled his deck, Tyler took another look at his opponent. That same satisfied smile was still on her face. Well, he thought, we'll see if I can't wipe that off her face with my next card. A smirk started to play across his lips as he set his newly-shuffled deck back in place.
"Boss's Orders," he declared simply, flipping his last card around to show her. "Switching out to your Dedenne ex."
Once again, the girl delicately picked up her cards, her face now shadowed behind her hair as she looked down. The Dedenne hit the table where the Variant Zoroark VStar had been.
The girl looked back up as she placed the Zoroark on her Bench. That smile, that smile, it was still there, and it was even wider! Did she know something? Did she have a plan?
A chill ran down Tyler's spine. Was it just him, or did those teeth look a little too sharp? No, no, he had to be seeing things. He was just getting caught up in the moment, that was all. He'd turned things completely around off of some incredible luck, of course he was getting excited!
"I'll use Charizard's Burning Darkness to deal three hundred damage to your Dedenne. That'll get me two prize cards and end my turn."
The Dedenne was moved to his opponent's discard pile, and Tyler finally, finally managed to take his first prize cards of the game. That was the second Tera Pokémon that had hit his opponent's discard pile, the other one having been discarded to a Professor's Research a few turns prior. Odds were good that she wouldn't have any more in her deck given how little its attacks did for her strategy, so even if she did have another Area Zero Underdepths to play back out, she wouldn't be able to take advantage of its effect. Tyler breathed a subtle sigh of relief, looking at the two new cards in his hand. Another Boss's Orders would help speed things along if needed, but it seemed like this would be his game even without it.
His opponent finally spoke. "Zoroark will go back to the active spot, and it's my turn," she said calmly. Did nothing faze this girl?
The girl drew a card and looked down at her hand, then glanced back up at Tyler. Her lips were barely visible behind the fan of cards, but he could see they were twisted in a vicious smirk. For a moment, he thought her eyes flashed yellow. When he looked more closely, they were the same ice-blue they'd been this whole time.
"Let's start things off with an Ultra Ball," she announced, setting three cards on the field. One Ultra Ball, of course, and two more Gengar getting discarded? That would have been a huge problem if Tyler hadn't gotten rid of her Tera Pokémon. Those three cards were swiftly moved to the discard pile before the girl flipped through her dwindling deck nonchalantly. "I'll just grab another Doduo, I suppose."
Tyler couldn't help but hold his breath. Did she have something up her sleeve? Was she bluffing?
"I'll play out another Area Zero Underdepths," his opponent continued. "But that doesn't do much, does it?" she asked as Tyler dutifully shifted his own Stadium to the discard pile. "So I'll continue with a Night Stretcher. My Dedenne ex will return from the grave," she announced, "and when I play it to my Bench, I will once more have three open slots. Just enough space for all three of my Gengar to rise with three damage counters each."
Each card was carefully placed onto the field. The girl's grin had turned savage, and…no, he wasn't seeing things. Her eyes were turning yellow, her hair beginning to rise in wisping patterns. When she spoke again, her teeth were razor sharp. "Their malice will fuel my revenge," she said in an echoing voice as the whole room began to go dark.
Tyler couldn't move. He couldn't breathe.
"And now, your final Pokémon will fall to my Ticking Curse. Leaving you…as my next victim."
The girl stood up. A grinning, ghostly fox took her place, just like the one on the card that had defeated him. Tyler's vision went dark.
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"—leave you alone for two hours. You just couldn't resist getting into trouble, huh?"
Tyler's eyes flickered open to the sound of an unfamiliar voice, and he registered that he was unharmed. What had happened…?
"Oh, he's awake!" someone else said, and a jolt of adrenaline sent him shooting upright. That was her voice.
"No, no, it's okay," reassured the first voice, which proved to belong to another young girl who was dressed for the road. Most likely a trainer, then. She looked a little familiar; had Tyler seen her somewhere before? "I'm sorry about her," the probably-trainer continued, making placating gestures with her hands. "She's—"
"Naomi, I can apologize for myself."
The newly named Naomi cut herself off mid-sentence and threw her hands up at the interruption. "Alright, alright. I'll let you handle it. But be nice, okay?"
The…girl? Ghost? that had been Tyler's opponent in the card game took a step forward, though she kept a respectful distance from him. "I'm sorry about that," she said. "I didn't mean to scare you that much. I was having a lot of fun playing against you, and I guess I got a little too into it."
Tyler blinked. He opened his mouth, then thought better of it and closed his mouth again. He blinked some more. Finally, he asked, "Wait, so are you…?"
"I'm a variant Zoroark," she confirmed.
"And a handful," Naomi grumbled, though with more than a little fondness in her voice.
A few more moments passed as Tyler processed this. He'd lost to a variant Zoroark who was hamming it up while playing a Variant Zoroark deck? That was…
"Okay, that was a little funny," he decided.
"See?" The disguised Zoroark turned to Naomi, sticking her tongue out. "Buzzkill."
Naomi lowered her head into her hands as she let out an explosive sigh. Tyler couldn't help but snicker, and after a few moments all three of them were laughing together.
Railyn
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Yeah, but figuring out how I wanted to write that would have taken longer than a day. So I went with this instead.
If this is a blip into the future then I'm all for it