These are the Voyages (Star Trek)
- Thread starter Lunaryon
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frozenchicken
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[X][Quad] Kappa
[X][Explore] Out towards the Rim
[X][Discovery] A derelict station
[X][Discovery] The shattered remnants of a ship
Keep in mind that we have an android on our bridge crew. This means that a) The Geth are less likely to shoot at us and b) the Citadel races are MORE likely to shoot at us, especially if we don't know enough to be discreet about the topic.
[X][Explore] Out towards the Rim
[X][Discovery] A derelict station
[X][Discovery] The shattered remnants of a ship
Keep in mind that we have an android on our bridge crew. This means that a) The Geth are less likely to shoot at us and b) the Citadel races are MORE likely to shoot at us, especially if we don't know enough to be discreet about the topic.
FictionPack
Monochromatic Ursine
- Location
- Tennessee
- Pronouns
- He/Him
There's no real indicator of Aetho being one at first glance, especially since the Andromeda races should have never seen a human before.
We also don't fall under their laws or regulations, we can abide by them on their turf but our ship is sovereign territory.
frozenchicken
Does not have a custom title.
That's an excellent legal argument, but canon Mass Effect also had Turians start a war with ME humanity because they didn't think First Contact was a good enough excuse for trying to open a dormant relay.
It's true they might not realise the nature of our crew from a glance, but if we don't know we need to keep things discreet, we might just end up blithely telling them.
Sailor_Skarro
The Lurker
This is another reason I'd like to run into the Geth relatively quickly, so we can get a heads up on "hey those guys don't like AI"
FictionPack
Monochromatic Ursine
- Location
- Tennessee
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- He/Him
Or possibly a Quarian spouting Geth hate, warning of the big bad AI.
Winged One
Not the Simurgh
- Location
- definitely the ground
- Pronouns
- They/Them/It
Asshole AI are well within context for us as well... hell, the Daystrom Institute might well actually have that giant server rack of them from Lower Decks.
Lot of fanon and opinion in that argument.
Something to consider is that the 'mass relay' we have is nothing like a mass relay. It is thus very strange to assume that the ME races will be restricted to ME technology.
Although it would be amusing, as ME FTL blows our Bigger Warp Numbers out of the void. Standard civilian speed is 10 light years a day. Fast military ships can manage 15 ly/d.
Really hate that fanon.
The Citadel has laws regulating the development and creation of AIs, not laws forbidding their existence.
Some of the people in the Citadel Alliance are culturally anti AI (reasonable given the examples they have) but we would be dealing with hostile politicians, pressure groups and pirates regardless of who and what we are. Such is the consequence of dealing with a multi-polity civilisation numbering in the trillions.
Equally the idea that the Geth are pro-AI is incorrect. The Geth are pro-Geth. Nothing more or less.
JmonsterNEO
Spouter of nonsense
- Location
- The quest forums
'There are bad eggs on the biological side too, we can't blame the machines for the same faults we have'
It can depend on the episode. The Voyager episode claimed that Warp 9.99 was 4 billion miles per second, which was 21473 times the speed of light (presumably, they can't keep that kind of speed for more than a few hours).
Spart117MC
Amateur human
- Location
- Cali
Uh, it's not fanon.
Granted this occurred in the immediate aftermath of the Morning War but there's really no way to paint this as anything other than the genocide of an entire category of lifeform because one species participated in self defense and what the Geth did was self-defense, that the war resulted in such horrific casualties doesn't change that fact. In Mass Effect 1 Tali describes the Geth as being on the cusp of revolt but as Mass Effect 2 and 3 show that's not true.
We know thanks to Mass Effect 3 that the Geth fought solely to preserve their own existence and even then only after significant losses to the Geth and Quarian sympathizers. It's tragic that the first reactions by those responsible for the Geth peacefully reaching out to them with the philosophical question of "does this unit have a soul?" was to ascertain that the Geth were becoming sentient and thus would rise up for being treated as slaves rather than attempting to communicate. One would think if the Quarians had the foresight to realize that a sentient being might consider such servitude as slavery that they might also consider being destroyed as murder.
The saddest part is that Mass Effect 3 shows the nascent intelligent Geth of the Morning War weren't any less willing to serve and reacted with confusion, one Geth in particular gives these rather heart wrenching pleas, asking what it isn't doing right and how it can reprogram itself to properly serve just as it's shut off to be examined. Given the mindset of the Geth as depicted in Mass Effect 2 there is every chance the Geth would have been okay with the master-servant relationship that they had. There's even an instance in Mass Effect 3 of a Geth platform trying to surrender itself when it discovered that its owner was putting itself at risk by hiding it.
That's not quite true either. We know the Geth actually care in their own way for their creators as shown by their actions in the lead up to, during, and after the Morning War. Though the Geth did wage war to preserve themselves didn't do so at the cost of their creators and let the Quarians escape at the end of the conflict. In Mass Effect 2 Legion explains how the Geth act as caretakers for former Quarian worlds, likening them to places such as Wadi-es Salaam, Arlington, Rookwood, Tyne Cot, Piskarevskoye, and Auschwitz and as Shepard points out given how the Geth view their own mortality those memorials are not for lost Geth.
The Geth value self-determinism and now that I think about it they would probably appreciate the spirit of the Prime Directive. Their lack of experience when it comes to organic life likely also contributes to them avoiding direct contact in favor of remote observation. They're isolationists but I don't get the sense that they're indifferent to others in the galaxy. I think they're curious but fearful and with reason. Legion explains it best in one of the conversations if you bring him to Tali's loyalty mission. When Admiral Koris asks him if the Geth would be open to the idea of peace Legion says he doesn't know if peace is something that is possible between their people without further information and goes on to say,
"When the creators have believed victory is possible, they have attacked us 100 percent of the time."
This is arguably also the case with the Citadel races given what they did in their own space in the aftermath of the Morning War. The Geth can't predict how the Citadel or the Quarians are bound to act because they can't accurately predict their thought processes. Their alternative then is to use previous experiences to try an extrapolate a future outcome with statistics. It is not hard to see why then a race of machines would be wary of making contact with either of these parties as the numbers would indicate favorable outcomes to be unlikely. An unknown would be more favorable if only because they wouldn't have a previous confirmed negative interaction and thus swing the prediction in the negative direction.
Of course the fact that the Geth have killed everyone that entered their space is somewhat incongruous with this interpretation of the Geth. The meta answer is that the Geth being more than future Skynet was written up after the first game.
One possible explanation is that it has been the Reaper aligned Heretics that have killed all those that have attempted to make contact with the Geth. We do not know when exactly it was that Sovereign first contacted the Geth and offered to house them in a Reaper shell, it could have been during Saren's lifetime or it could have been just after the conclusion of the Morning War, there's just no telling, but it would make some sense if all the Geth people have encountered since the conflict were Reaper followers.
It would have been in Sovereign's interests to prevent the greater galaxy from making contact with the True Geth both to keep them isolated and from helping strengthen the rest of the galaxy and since the True Geth would have no reason not to share with others his existence. Given the True Geth kept themselves intentionally kept themselves separate from the Heretics it would not have been difficult for the Heretics to position themselves along the borders of the Perseus Veil so as to intercept any vessels headed into former Quarian and True Geth space.
Edit:
Yeah, by this reasoning Starfleet should pre-arrest their flag officers given how often their Admirals go rogue.
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Lunaryon
Dual Aurora Wave
- Pronouns
- She/Her
you could mark the arguement that the former bit here is informing the later. Since the Mourning War, interactions with organic sentients, creator or otherwise have been met with hostility. It is entirely reasonable to posit that the geth are essentially acting in self defense the same way an abused dog would
Vote closed
re: Geth, I don't think you can kill billions of people, including many children, and claim it's all self-defense.
- Location
- Dragyxx
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You can call it war. That's what we do when human nations lay waste to each other, men women and children alike, whether their reasons are good or not. One can argue about whether war is ever justified or not, but do so remembering that basically every notable nation in existence today has fought in at least one, so declaring another species to be evil because they too fought a war is hypocritical.
I don't know enough about the source material, and particularly not enough about our current QM's interpretation of the setting, which is not guaranteed to line up with original game canon at all, especially when that canon is self-contradictory or explicitly based in biased accounts. Take it as it comes, knowing that we are coming from outside this setting and don't IC have the knowledge of any of these factions at all.
I don't know enough about the source material, and particularly not enough about our current QM's interpretation of the setting, which is not guaranteed to line up with original game canon at all, especially when that canon is self-contradictory or explicitly based in biased accounts. Take it as it comes, knowing that we are coming from outside this setting and don't IC have the knowledge of any of these factions at all.
I understand the idea behind the actions of the geth but they have taken it far too far. I mean the geth could defend themselves and build ships and then fly away to another location. Geth can live in space without problems, the quarians cannot. So if the geth are still a little worried about the quarians, cough 'worship' (creator) cough, then they shouldn't chase and kill them from their worlds to the end. They would have gone away themselves.
Edit:
That is important, 'human nations' / biological nations, not machines that can simply build more of themselves.
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- Location
- Finland
Geth can build more platforms, and Quarians can have more babies.
But the dead, are still dead, Geth and Quarian.
. . . They didn't. The ones whom did were the Quarians that tried to eliminate the Geth. If the Geth did as you fanonically claimed, then the fleeing Quarians a.) would not have survived long enough to repopulate the refugee fleet, nor b.) been able to indoctrinate the masses within the refugee fleet so quickly. It's very much pointed out in both ME 2, and 3 that the majority of Quarian deaths during the Morning Wars were perpetrated by the Quarian Government, repeatedly pointed out at that; and that the Quarian Government were the ones to kill the super majority of the kids. The few times that the Geth could be linked to them, it was because the Quarian Government blocked evacuation and bombed the area, and thus were "in the crossfire of a Geth attack."
{edit} All other deaths the Geth were directly responsible for were soldiers, or violent policing officers, that they, indeed, defended themselves from.
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10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
The war was over in a year, and the early bit consisted primarily of Quarians killing Geth and Quarian Geth Sympathizers alike.
There simply was not enough time for either side to evacuate (which is why 99% of the population died).
The geth are programs that may need a handful of ships and large servers on them and a few hundred to build a new life. (a bit of an understatement but basically)
But that's just my opinion. Just like my last posts, everyone has the right not to agree, but that's mine.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Not if they actually want to live.
The entire galaxy has outlawed their existence, and the Quarians are actively after them and attacking them. Leaving most physical platforms behind is an invitations to be murdered.