What does "drain another shard" have to do with it?
If you go read his interlude in Worm, it's all about his fight with Scion and getting (most of) his power back. Closest thing to an explanation you'll find.

But keep in mind that the Cauldron-vial capes, of which Eidolon was a member, were described as having "dead" shards.

It seems that functionally, his problem was his batteries were running down, but he could have his passenger mug other capes for their juice.
 
I know his power is to "pick a suite of 3 powers." What does "drain another shard" have to do with it? Is it he's exhausted a limited set he always keeps on hand, and he refuses to pick outside of that set?

I think what I'm saying here is that ,while I've read Worm, I don't think I really understood Eidolon's powers as explained in detail. CAn somebody please elaborate on it?
Eidolon's original shard is most likely one that Eden kept for the purpose of being able to connect to and draw upon shards she sent out. As a result, his power is to reach out to other shards and use powers they can grant. However, Eden's shards had their charging mechanism broken, so they started running low on power. In his interlude, Glaistig Uaine coaches Eidolon on how to find the right Thinker power to enable him to drain energy from other capes and their shards and then use that energy to recharge his powers.
 
Ah! Thanks. I will re-read his interlude, then. That also explains why Doorway's power COULD run out, while others with seemingly bigger powers never did, despite spamming them pretty dramatically.
 
I know his power is to "pick a suite of 3 powers." What does "drain another shard" have to do with it? Is it he's exhausted a limited set he always keeps on hand, and he refuses to pick outside of that set?

I think what I'm saying here is that ,while I've read Worm, I don't think I really understood Eidolon's powers as explained in detail. CAn somebody please elaborate on it?
I haven't really read Worm (I have been informed that I probably shouldn't, due to my own tendency towards depression), so this may be completely off-base.

That said, my understanding is that, while he can mimic up to four powers (one of his slots has been tied down with controlling the Endbringers/disappeared for unknown reasons, depending on your belief in his link to them), he couldn't use those powers immediately. Or at least, not well or competently. While apparently he could match veteran users of a power in skill within minutes of making that choice...he still had to wait a bit before he could use that power to it's full extent.

It was this 'adaptation period' that was increasing as his powers decayed, and perhaps his peak skill, as well. Which meant changing powers in combat was becoming more and more of a gamble, as it took longer and longer, and had less and less of an effect. Basically, His 'engines' were taking longer and longer to 'rev-up', as it were, and his ability to change powers on the fly was decaying as a result.

I think. Like I said, I'm not operating on complete information.
 
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That said, my understanding is that, while he can mimic up to four powers (one of his slots has been tied down with controlling the Endbringers/disappeared for unknown reasons, depending on your belief in his link to them), he couldn't use those powers immediately. Or at least, not well or competently. While apparently he could match veteran users of a power in skill within minutes of making that choice...he still had to wait a bit before he could use that power to it's full extent.

It's not quite as hard a limit as four or three slots. He can choose how many he wants out at a time, and there's some downside to pushing it, so if he wants to go for four powers it's doable but they might end up weaker.

Since he usually keeps up flying and something to protect himself, this narrows his choice of active powers a bit.
 
Ah! Thanks. I will re-read his interlude, then. That also explains why Doorway's power COULD run out, while others with seemingly bigger powers never did, despite spamming them pretty dramatically.
Unfortunately, it isn't that clear.

Doormaker's early power-down could have been due to any one of several factors, including:
- Broken limiter
- His power taking a hit by Scion's stilling beam (the one that hit the doorway and didn't go through, which caused Doormaker to cry out)
- Abuse by Khepri
- He wasn't out of power, he was just at his daily door limit, and his power would have come back online after some time anyway


Scion himself was on a time-limit, with a fixed maximum life span, and Scion was NOT "dead", so the idea that "dead" means anything in particular is ... difficult to support.
 
It's not quite as hard a limit as four or three slots. He can choose how many he wants out at a time, and there's some downside to pushing it, so if he wants to go for four powers it's doable but they might end up weaker.

Since he usually keeps up flying and something to protect himself, this narrows his choice of active powers a bit.
Couldn't that just be something like picking a Grab-bag Cape's Shard, though? Grab-Bags tend to have weaker powers with more variety, after all. And Shards can express their purposes in more ways than one, in many cases. That could certainly result in more 'diluted' power, since a single Shard running multiple functions would have less energy to use on any given one.
 
Couldn't that just be something like picking a Grab-bag Cape's Shards, though? Grab-Bags tend to have weaker powers with more variety, after all. And Shards can express their purposes in more ways than one, in many cases. That could certainly result in more 'diluted' power, since a single Shard running multiple functions would have less energy to use on any given one.

It's entirely possible that's the like, background mechanic that lets him do it, but the cast page and stuff just says:

Eidolon – Third member of the Protectorate's 'Triumvirate'. Eidolon has the ability to use any power he needs at a given point in time, maintaining a set of two to four powers at a time. Adopting a new power is not immediate, but after minutes, his abilities with that power grow to the point they rival or surpass veteran users of the same abilities.

Legend nodded. "Good. Eidolon, you want to try your hand at it?"

"If my power lets me. It only gives me what it thinks I need, not what I want."

And the process seems a little ill defined, really.

Found the bit on the downside:

"Eidolon can hold onto about three serious powers at a time," Tecton said. "If he's packing flying, danger sense and gravity manipulation, that's it. Sometimes he does four, but two or three of them are usually pretty minor. Enhanced accuracy, whatever."

"Unless the flying's an extension of the gravity manipulation," Tattletale pointed out. "I'd guess he's maintaining a kind of power immunity, in case Noelle manages to close the distance or one of her underlings tries to hit him from range."

It's only sort of implied that going for four weakens him, and it may not be conscious? If he gets what he needs maybe sometimes he needs more support effects and that's usually when he has the full four.
 
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It's entirely possible that's the like, background mechanic that lets him do it, but the cast page and stuff just says:

And the process seems a little ill defined, really.

Found the bit on the downside:

It's only sort of implied that going for four weakens him, and it may not be conscious? If he gets what he needs maybe sometimes he needs more support effects and that's usually when he has the full four.
Sounds like it's mostly dictated by the whims of Wildbow his Passenger, if I'm being honest.
 
Huh. It might be interesting (though this is likely a better fit for the "Wormverse ideas" thread) to see a story where Eidolon's shard went to a different person, or Eidolon himself had a good and trusted friend who was a munchkin powergaming tabletop player to provide guidance in fully exploiting the points spread his power opens up to him.
 
Couldn't that just be something like picking a Grab-bag Cape's Shard, though? Grab-Bags tend to have weaker powers with more variety, after all. And Shards can express their purposes in more ways than one, in many cases. That could certainly result in more 'diluted' power, since a single Shard running multiple functions would have less energy to use on any given one.
From my understanding grabbag capes are formed from multi triggers where each person has multiple shards linked and gains extremely minor powers form each one. He can't get a grabbags power, because grabbags are formed from multiple shards, and he can only fill his 'slots' with single shards/powers.
 
From my understanding grabbag capes are formed from multi triggers where each person has multiple shards linked and gains extremely minor powers form each one. He can't get a grabbags power, because grabbags are formed from multiple shards, and he can only fill his 'slots' with single shards/powers.
Every "shard" is also a cluster.

Scion's interlude discusses them as such.

Grab-bags aren't treated differently by Tohu or GU, as far as I can tell.

Do you have a citation which might demonstrate some difference in treatment?
 
Eidolon himself had a good and trusted friend who was a munchkin powergaming tabletop player to provide guidance in fully exploiting the points spread his power opens up to him.
Eidolon with a good and trusted friend period would probably be a big AU, honestly.

He desperately wants to do the right thing, and while his temper pushes him towards deciding the right thing is violence, he's obviously able to control that for the most part - this is probably why he really wants validation: he doesn't trust his own judgement that much. But he really doesn't trust Cauldron, either.

And if he is motivating the Endbringers, someone helping him work through issues might change what they're trying to do.
 
Every "shard" is also a cluster.

Scion's interlude discusses them as such.

Grab-bags aren't treated differently by Tohu or GU, as far as I can tell.

Do you have a citation which might demonstrate some difference in treatment?
This is all I managed to find with a quick skim, but I'm really tired so I didn't put much effort it, may try some more after I get some sleep

From here:Worm Quotes and WoG Repository | Page 12



Question:Are the powers gained from multitriggers obtained from a mix of shards? I.e. what Circus triggered, did the firebreating shard say to the hammerspace shard "yo, we should team up for this one", so that both shards maintain the same parahuman?


Answer: Powers from multitriggers are from a mix of shards. The shards, instead of going all-in, give up a small to moderate portion of themselves, and then leave the rest of themselves to develop normally while taking in info from multiple sources, just like a shard would naturally gather info and eventually reach the point where it could bud. Except in this case, the shard will usually just go find another host, maybe with relation to one of the multi's, maybe not, and empower them.


So I wasn't entirely correct but was where it mattered in relation to eidolon's powers
 
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I know his power is to "pick a suite of 3 powers." What does "drain another shard" have to do with it? Is it he's exhausted a limited set he always keeps on hand, and he refuses to pick outside of that set?

I think what I'm saying here is that ,while I've read Worm, I don't think I really understood Eidolon's powers as explained in detail. CAn somebody please elaborate on it?

Very simple version:
Pick three powers - but they are all un-assigned Eden Shards. And Eden Shards are starving. So the more he uses them, the weaker they get.
He can (but doesn't know it), drain other para-humans to 'eat' their shards and give the power to his shard collections.
 
This is all I managed to find with a quick skim, but I'm really tired so I didn't put much effort it, may try some more after I get some sleep

From here:Worm Quotes and WoG Repository | Page 12



Question:Are the powers gained from multitriggers obtained from a mix of shards? I.e. what Circus triggered, did the firebreating shard say to the hammerspace shard "yo, we should team up for this one", so that both shards maintain the same parahuman?


Answer: Powers from multitriggers are from a mix of shards. The shards, instead of going all-in, give up a small to moderate portion of themselves, and then leave the rest of themselves to develop normally while taking in info from multiple sources, just like a shard would naturally gather info and eventually reach the point where it could bud. Except in this case, the shard will usually just go find another host, maybe with relation to one of the multi's, maybe not, and empower them.


So I wasn't entirely correct but was where it mattered in relation to eidolon's powers
...You didn't actually counter his reasoning, though.

From what I understand, all Shards are gestalts of Entity bits. When they 'gave up' small portions of themselves, they basically blended and re-mixed their existing components. They cut off portions of themselves and glued them onto the others. But those Shards are still likely treated as complete Shards, because all Shards are like that. A difference in configuration doesn't change that, from what I can tell.
 
I think his two powers are:

- Pick any three powers
- Can steal other shards' energy to fuel your own.

I also think that the reason he was weakening is because he was running out of energy to fuel his shard things. The solution to that is to steal other shards' energy wells.
 
Er.

It's more that "can steal other shards' energy to fuel your own" was on the list of powers he could pick three from.
It's a neat trick, if the power degradation is coming from the fact that he's a Cauldron Cape, and is thus operating with a damaged/dead/corrupted Shard. If such Shards originate with Eden's demise, then why would such a power exist before then? I guess I can kinda see having some sort of salvage Shard, that patches holes in one Shard with the bits from another, for emergencies that cause damage. Even so, it still seems like a bit of an ass-pull, honestly.
 
A reminder: many of the original shards that make up the first Entities did not join voluntarily.

This has implications about some of the abilities Entities must have access to.
...Okay, it might just be because it's late where I am, but I'm not following your line of thought, here. I guess maybe what you're saying is that he tapped something like an Assimilation Shard, one meant to forcibly incorperate recalcitrant Shards into the gestalt? I don't see why that would help repair damaged Shards, like Eidolon's, though.

Also, one other thing is a bit confusing, here. Wasn't he already using Cauldron vials as boosters? How would that work? I mean, that sounds like he was already essentially feeding his Shard other Shards to keep his powers active, before he consulted with GU. Which is probably why it seems like his powers include that cannibalization feature by default, to a lot of people.

Honestly, Eidolon's whole thing is a bit of a cluster-f*ck, isn't it? I think my joke about his powers functioning based on Wildbow's whims was a bit less of a joke than I thought.
 
I guess maybe what you're saying is that he tapped something like an Assimilation Shard, one meant to forcibly incorperate recalcitrant Shards into the gestalt? I don't see why that would help repair damaged Shards, like Eidolon's, though.

Also, one other thing is a bit confusing, here. Wasn't he already using Cauldron vials as boosters? How would that work?
I'm saying he had access to a cannibalism shard. Taking energy from a shard that would prefer not to hand it over is necessary for an entity doing the forcible assimilation thing, whatever mechanism is used in specific.

And the relevant damage to Eidolon's shard (and Cauldron Shards in general) was that it wasn't set up to be able to harvest energy on its own. Maybe he'd be able to fix that, too, if he poked in the right places, but the Faerie Queen was the one giving him advice, so if there were multiple options available it's not surprising which one she pointed out.

And Cauldron Vials presumably gave him access to other dead shards so he could steal their batteries - but that's not worth nearly as much as access to active generators.
 
...You didn't actually counter his reasoning, though.

From what I understand, all Shards are gestalts of Entity bits. When they 'gave up' small portions of themselves, they basically blended and re-mixed their existing components. They cut off portions of themselves and glued them onto the others. But those Shards are still likely treated as complete Shards, because all Shards are like that. A difference in configuration doesn't change that, from what I can tell.
Yep. This is explicit in Scion's interlude, when he breaks up a shard into a cluster, recodes part of its ability into all the other shards, and then compacts the cluster back into a single shard (which he then throws at Aisha).

Each shard is a cluster.

Wildbow does not write for clarity, he writes for evocative passages.

The canonical scenes where shards are discussed are inspiring, but they are not particularly definitive.
 
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