The Wild Edge (Fantasy Border Outpost)

By the way, can we contact our bro for a repeat performance in the winter and book our other bro for moving bro into position?
Please note that our kingdom is still at war and our brother is a critical asset. I do not see redeploying him during Winter as practical or wise.
This is correct.

Or hiring some veterans (Or detaching veterans from our formations) - not healthy enough for combat would do - to form a group dedicated to training peasants into levies and, eventually, footmen/skirmishers?
Hmm this may work. Not sure what sort of action to ascribe to it. I can definitely understand at times why people just go with a CK2 system, it definitely covers most possible actions. On the other hand I didn't have ideas for Intrigue or Diplomacy so didn't feel right at the start.

Also, since we got port & drydock... Can we invest into fishers?
Having a fishery would be good. Just hope the forest's influence does not extend into the surrounding waters, check the map:

We may be dealing with dwarf(and man)-eating carp.
Hmm I suppose I can add something along that line.
 
[X] Plan Finaly Flying

[X][Dockworkers] Commit to defending them
[X][OJ] Have Olivia let Julia examine her, it's for her own good really, and it's not like there's any point in hiding her nature. She shouldn't be so insecure.
 
I kind of want to reach a certain minimum level of voting before updating. I had kind of expected that the quest would gain more participants as time went on but it instead seems to be declining severely. I've been considering abandoning it to try something else. So I'm trying to gauge how much interest remains.
 
[X] Plan Finaly Flying

[X][Dockworkers] Commit to defending them
[X][OJ] Have Olivia let Julia examine her, it's for her own good really, and it's not like there's any point in hiding her nature. She shouldn't be so insecure.
 
So I'm trying to gauge how much interest remains.
The interest is there - I mean, you are getting likes, if not votes.

We are in a bit of a bind here with the military matters. The orcs recovered even after a disastrous raid, and came back stronger than they were, while our side is being bogged down by the outside war, and even the attrition tactics (grit your teeth and take the casualties) stopped working as we aren't guaranteed reinforcements anymore. Pulling more resources from the mainland is out of the question as well, because it detracts from the war upon which the fate of our entire duchy is hinged.

We've got an elephant in the room, and no one is talking about it. I will not vote for a plan that doesn't acknowledge the problem and doesn't offer if not a solution, then at least a roadmap to it. And I can't propose one myself since I am out of ideas, hence my attempts to strike up a conversation on that topic... but it doesn't look like people know how to overcome this.

So here I am, watching and not voting. I imagine there are quite a few others as well.

Edit: If all else fails, I'll sketch a plan of my own tomorrow.
 
Last edited:
So about our orc problem:

We don't have the human resources to sustain the hunter losses we've been taking, and the orcs have shown a tendency to take out our vision consistently. Basically, we won't survive by simply holding position unless we get pretty lucky consistently. The orcs also have a general-type unit at the least, meaning its likely they'll get reinforcements in spring, which will completely doom us.

Alternatively, and I propose this knowing full well it would be one of the dumbest decisions this quest will have ever made, perhaps the dumbest, but if it works we'll be ~50% out of the woods:

A winter offensive

We're outnumbered, and not well supplied for sustained engagements. Our enemies have way more scouts than we do, and the ability to deploy them more effectively. But winter will almost certain reduce their scouting abilities, and more importantly, a winter offensive is so dumb I doubt any decent tactician will even consider it. Maybe if they knew how fraught our reinforcement line was, but I doubt the orcs pay attention to human movements on that large of a scale. In this plan, we'd use a unit of footmen or so as standard patrols to cover for us so that we don't look extremely suspicious, and use Skirmishers + Olivia + whatever else we can manage without looking incredibly suspicious to make an attempt on the enemy base. We know where their base is still IIRC, which is a major plus, and we likely have the configuration of their base as well, in general if not completely accurate anymore. An assault on the enemy when they're not expecting it reduces the effectiveness of their cavalry significantly, and sufficiently induced panic counters their superior numbers, giving us the best chance we might ever get at taking the head of their Hero/General short of our bro showing up again. Maybe we can request Mina for this, since internal divisions have died down in Tedora, though it's more likely she'll be keeping her eye on that baron who's got some ideas.

If everything goes down in flames, at least it'll be memorable.
 
It's not the worst Hail Mary plan I've heard of.
The biggest concern for me is the simple fact that we'd have to stomp through the OverGrowth to do it and that's some serious hostile terrain.
 
The interest is there - I mean, you are getting likes, if not votes.
Well likes over the last few updates have gone: 23, 21, 19, 12. So That's a pretty obvious decline too.

We are in a bit of a bind here with the military matters. The orcs recovered even after a disastrous raid, and came back stronger than they were, while our side is being bogged down by the outside war, and even the attrition tactics (grit your teeth and take the casualties) stopped working as we aren't guaranteed reinforcements anymore. Pulling more resources from the mainland is out of the question as well, because it detracts from the war upon which the fate of our entire duchy is hinged.

We've got an elephant in the room, and no one is talking about it. I will not vote for a plan that doesn't acknowledge the problem and doesn't offer if not a solution, then at least a roadmap to it. And I can't propose one myself since I am out of ideas, hence my attempts to strike up a conversation on that topic... but it doesn't look like people know how to overcome this.

So here I am, watching and not voting. I imagine there are quite a few others as well.

Edit: If all else fails, I'll sketch a plan of my own tomorrow.
Okay I suppose I can see that it feels too hard. This isn't exactly unplanned for though, and it's not unwinnable. The most obvious solution is to just outright turtle.

I can tell you even with the current forces involved and your current base there would need to be serious roll shenanigans to lose if they actually assaulted your base. Fortifications make a huge difference in combat. If you actually completed the three tiers of upgrades to reach a moat, earthworks, and guard stations on the walls you could probably crush double the current enemy numbers if they tried an assault.

You simply didn't expand your forces fast enough to be ready for this build out of the enemy. That's not really your fault. You were going for maximum economy trying to build up your income as much as possible as fast as possible with the intent to go crazy recruiting once the orcs started their pre-war buildup. You didn't expect the steep rise in recruitment costs. In character it was a perfectly reasonable plan. Everything going according to plan would be a very boring setting though, outside factors exist.

But you still have ways out here. This is not an unsurvivable situation.

I will say that from my perspective I don't see any sure fire way to really win this arc at this point, but you can certainly not lose. You can try to roll the dice on duking it out in the forest. In fairness you've had some pretty terrible opposed roll results to reach this point.

Or you can cut your losses and go defensive. If you just tunnel on building up defensive works you can still manage to dig in enough that the orcs couldn't afford to dislodge you because you'd inflict such a terrible casualty ratio. They'd have to siege you out, and if you build up enough supplies or manage to secure production internally somehow, you could last until relieved. Tying up a bunch of forces to defend against you potentially sallying would still slow down any advance through your zone of control. You'd be exposing the peasants you're supposed to protect to raiding and invasion, but that's... secondary. You were never expected to stop a main invasion force, just stop raiding and slow/harass any invasion force.

Alternatively, and I propose this knowing full well it would be one of the dumbest decisions this quest will have ever made, perhaps the dumbest, but if it works we'll be ~50% out of the woods:

A winter offensive

We're outnumbered, and not well supplied for sustained engagements. Our enemies have way more scouts than we do, and the ability to deploy them more effectively. But winter will almost certain reduce their scouting abilities, and more importantly, a winter offensive is so dumb I doubt any decent tactician will even consider it. Maybe if they knew how fraught our reinforcement line was, but I doubt the orcs pay attention to human movements on that large of a scale. In this plan, we'd use a unit of footmen or so as standard patrols to cover for us so that we don't look extremely suspicious, and use Skirmishers + Olivia + whatever else we can manage without looking incredibly suspicious to make an attempt on the enemy base. We know where their base is still IIRC, which is a major plus, and we likely have the configuration of their base as well, in general if not completely accurate anymore. An assault on the enemy when they're not expecting it reduces the effectiveness of their cavalry significantly, and sufficiently induced panic counters their superior numbers, giving us the best chance we might ever get at taking the head of their Hero/General short of our bro showing up again. Maybe we can request Mina for this, since internal divisions have died down in Tedora, though it's more likely she'll be keeping her eye on that baron who's got some ideas.

If everything goes down in flames, at least it'll be memorable.
It's very much a Hail Mary. It could work, or you could go down in flames. It would be on the dice.
 
They'd have to siege you out, and if you build up enough supplies or manage to secure production internally somehow, you could last until relieved.

I can't imagine a way of becoming self-sufficient without including part of the overgrowth inside our walls (which doesn't really seem plausible) so we'd need to build new storage and stock it with many seasons worth of supplies.

We can't honestly expect to be relieved in less than a year, likely two or more, given the fact that the duchy is currently fighting a losing war on a different front - we have no access to support. And if we get besieged that's all the Saint's Blood gone for both us and the other war effort.

So yeah, we need a hail-mary tactic. Winter raid sounds plausible, otherwise all I can think is trying to develop some sort of influence over the Overgrowth that will allow us to turn it into a shield for us - something larger scale than Nerissa.

EDIT: Hmmm, now I'm thinking of doing a mass-transfusion of Olivia's blood into soldiers, trying to copy the enchantment we used to make her to create more supersoldiers.
 
Last edited:
Huh, we haven't died yet. Eh, winter will probably finish us off.

Might as well chime in to provide a casual quester's view.

I kind of want to reach a certain minimum level of voting before updating. I had kind of expected that the quest would gain more participants as time went on but it instead seems to be declining severely. I've been considering abandoning it to try something else. So I'm trying to gauge how much interest remains.

Admittedly part of the problem here is bad luck with the dice. Us questers tend to be spoiled and rarely put in a position where we are actively scrambling to not lose from what seems to mostly be no fault of our own. I personally will actively avoid reading this quest for stretches of time because of how bad things go, but I do eventually come back because it is genuinely interesting to see.

The "watch us slowly bleed out despite our efforts to stop the bleeding" feeling I get from a lot of updates makes bingeing the main way I can enjoy the quest. Reading every time an update comes out makes me feel the unwanted responsibility of figuring out how magically get us out of our downward spiral when I know just having a bad dice roll will fuck over even the best of our plans.




Objectively though, this quest leans more elitist than populist, so the voter pool was never extremely large anyway. That's doesn't mean there won't be a lot of people reading the quest, but it definitely drives down participation -- especially in the form of voting.
 
Of that Hail Mary... We surely could book a ship to transport us to the nothern border of Overgrowth. It would make it both faster and safer.
Also, since it would basically hinge on Olivia - we probably could take just her and skirmishers to scout for her - we probably should do some more equipment for her, particularly stuff that would allow her to reduce their base into rubble quickly.
 
Okay I suppose I can see that it feels too hard. This isn't exactly unplanned for though, and it's not unwinnable. The most obvious solution is to just outright turtle.
Well, I wouldn't say 'too hard'. But it is definitely getting complex enough to the point we need to develop a consistent strategy spanning several turns if not years, and stick to it regardless of personal stances on the matter.

Right now we are being wishy-washy, swinging between the extremes and making plans on the spot to suit the momentary needs. We try this thing, get burned, call each other names, abandon the idea and try that thing instead, get burned, then change directions and priorities again, and so it goes.

I am pretty sure that this has become unsustainable. I think Void Stalker was the only player who had made attempts to plan for several turns ahead, or at least the only one who voiced them so we knew what we were getting into when voting for their plans. I'd like for this to become our policy.

And yes, turtling is one alternative I proposed. That, and maybe trying to establish a reserve? Some kind of warrior pool that we could cannibalize to restore our most combat-capable units? My plan would be to train the levi, upgrade them to footmen, use them to patch the holes, buy another levi etc. We may end up with occasionally running out of reserves, but this should last us until the war ends, and then we may be able to call on Kaleb again and join forces.
Alternatively, and I propose this knowing full well it would be one of the dumbest decisions this quest will have ever made, perhaps the dumbest, but if it works we'll be ~50% out of the woods:

A winter offensive
Now, I hate to be the one to shoot that idea down, because I am a man of YOLO myself, but...

We aren't desperate enough for a Hail Mary. In fact, our economy has never been doing better, our defences are nothing to scoff at, and our supply lines are unassailable by the orcs unless we get sieged, which... frankly, puts more strain on them than on us, especially during winters.

A winter offensive is an immensely costly affair... which you already know, or you wouldn't disparage your own idea, but it never hurts to reiterate just how bad it is for an attacker. Not only do they take attrition and morale losses, suffer from the inability to start fires without wizardry, and have a hard time moving through the snow in heavy armor (or in the orcs' case, trying to plow-ride through the snow) while dragging supplies through the thicket, but they will have to face an enemy who didn't have any of these hurdles, in a fortified location. And since most people are sane and stay inside during the winter, I give it good odds that we'll be facing an entire complement of orc troops, because they have nothing better to do but sit on their butts waiting for the snow to melt so they could start raiding. Add to this their numerical superiority, and this starts looking pretty bleak.

These types of diversions work best when there is a soft target the enemy wouldn't think to protect because they'd count on the weather to do it for them, but the orcs have no towns or villages to sack, nothing but the outpost made for the sole reason of hosting troops and armed to the teeth. We'd be attacking the hardpoint at a disadvantage.

I can't in good conscience put everything on a small chance when I am certain we can weather their attacks, even if we have to go through a lot of pain in the process.
Of that Hail Mary... We surely could book a ship to transport us to the nothern border of Overgrowth. It would make it both faster and safer.
Also, since it would basically hinge on Olivia - we probably could take just her and skirmishers to scout for her - we probably should do some more equipment for her, particularly stuff that would allow her to reduce their base into rubble quickly.
That is an interesting idea, but when do we undertake this expedition?

It will also make the orcs prioritize the docks in their next raids. Not that they are terribly safe now, being the only structures outside the paliside...
 
Last edited:
[X][Dockworkers] Commit to defending them
[X][OJ] Have Olivia let Julia examine her, it's for her own good really, and it's not like there's any point in hiding her nature. She shouldn't be so insecure.

I broadly agree with the construction goals of the leading plan. But I doubt it's long-term value when it comes to deployment and our military in general.

[x] Plan Horse Whisperer and Reserves
-[ ][Construction] Rebuild your treehouse watchtowers in the Overgrowth (50 Denier)
-[ [Construction] Create a fortified causeway connecting your base to Nerissa's grove x2
-[ ][Personal] Recruit one Specialist unit (Expert Horse Trainer, 50 Denier)
-[ ][Personal] Investigate what's happened with your siblings.
-[ ][Skirmishers] Guard
--[ ] The base and the sawmill
-[ ][Footmen 1] Guard
--[ ] The docks
-[ ][Hunters] Assist Footmen 1 as scouts
-[ ][Footmen 2] Guard
--[ ] Construction workers
--[ ] Olivia Helps
-[ ][Levy] Train
-[ ][Captain] Train unit Levy
-[ ][Assistant] Recruitment?
--[ ] One Levy (400)
--[ ] Replenish Footmen (20% + 20%; 300*0.4*3=360)
--[ ] Replenish Skirmishers (15%; 200*0.15*3=90)

Treasury: 231 Deniers
Upkeep next turn: (1603-100 forge-50 rabbits)-5%: 1380
Income next turn: 600 base stipend + 400 Sawmill profit +200 Wood Workshop +300 charcoal and tar +400 herb sales +?400? drydocks = ?2300?
Building (50) + Recruitment (850) + Horse Trainer (50) = 950
Projected next turn: ?201? Denier

The point is to train the levy to prepare for upgrading them, and keeping them as a reserve to replenish our military losses.
Keep another levy in the works to eventually train them as well.
I think building a rabbit pen might be a good idea, but I could be swayed towards reinforcing the walls and the like. I need an advice on this.
Do we need to guard the construction workers? They will be working in the Overgrowth, so I would assume so...
I hope that rolls for replenishing the losses are not a binary 'get all'/'lose all' result

What is the projected cost for hiring a horse trainer?

Comments? Alternatives? The Good? The Bad?
 
Last edited:
What is the projected cost for hiring a horse trainer?

Horse Trainer. While admittedly you can't throw a stick without hitting someone with some degree of horse knowledge, you want someone a damn sight better than that to deal with a pegasus. Plus they need a certain amount of trustworthiness and discretion. You don't want them stealing it after all. 50 Denier Starting and Upkeep.

Its in the status post.
 
I can't imagine a way of becoming self-sufficient without including part of the overgrowth inside our walls (which doesn't really seem plausible) so we'd need to build new storage and stock it with many seasons worth of supplies.

We can't honestly expect to be relieved in less than a year, likely two or more, given the fact that the duchy is currently fighting a losing war on a different front - we have no access to support. And if we get besieged that's all the Saint's Blood gone for both us and the other war effort.
Well one thing I've considered is something along the lines of a wall extension to create a fortified causeway connecting your base to Nerissa's grove. Then having her fortify the edge of her territory a little. This would allow you to maintain production of the things she's growing for you even under siege. Or potentially have her provide food. The active and passive defenses of a dryad's grove would make assailing it around as difficult as attacking your fortifications. Though it would ensure her grove would be a target instead of potentially ignored.

Also fully losing the war on the other front is currently pretty unlikely. (Hence why your father's biggest concern is someone on the border betraying.) It's not exactly as desperate as it looks because in medieval warfare fortifications can form a front line that lasts for years.

Huh, we haven't died yet. Eh, winter will probably finish us off.

Might as well chime in to provide a casual quester's view.

Admittedly part of the problem here is bad luck with the dice. Us questers tend to be spoiled and rarely put in a position where we are actively scrambling to not lose from what seems to mostly be no fault of our own. I personally will actively avoid reading this quest for stretches of time because of how bad things go, but I do eventually come back because it is genuinely interesting to see.

The "watch us slowly bleed out despite our efforts to stop the bleeding" feeling I get from a lot of updates makes bingeing the main way I can enjoy the quest. Reading every time an update comes out makes me feel the unwanted responsibility of figuring out how magically get us out of our downward spiral when I know just having a bad dice roll will fuck over even the best of our plans.

Objectively though, this quest leans more elitist than populist, so the voter pool was never extremely large anyway. That's doesn't mean there won't be a lot of people reading the quest, but it definitely drives down participation -- especially in the form of voting.
Well admittedly I find this reply a little depressing. I had thought a quest that was rather difficult would find a decent niche. I mean there's plenty of quests that are endless strings of victories.

Though the idea that you're slowly bleeding out is pretty wrong. Just looking at your income can show how wrong that is. Your forces are far stronger and your base much more productive than it started, and has grown rather steadily. It's just that your enemies have been growing as well, but that was clear from the start of the quest that it would be the case.

Do we need to guard the construction workers? They will be working in the Overgrowth, so I would assume so...
I hope that rolls for replenishing the losses are not a binary 'get all'/'lose all' result
You should guard them.
The replenishing is not binary.

Ah, thanks. No cost multipliers, I gather?
Nope, it's non-military so still at normal price.
 
Last edited:
Finalized the plan, added the Olivia vote.

Which brings up a question. Julia has been living with us for a season or more, and she didn't catch the, ah, nuances of the relationship between Tristan and Olivia? Or does she pretend not to notice?

I think there should be no secrets between a doctor and a patient when it comes to their health, but I am also a believer in replaceable staff if the doctor starts getting ideas.
 
[X][Dockworkers] Commit to defending them
[X][OJ] Have Olivia let Julia examine her, it's for her own good really, and it's not like there's any point in hiding her nature. She shouldn't be so insecure.
[x] Plan Horse Whisperer and Reserves
 
Well admittedly I find this reply a little depressing. I had thought a quest that was rather difficult would find a decent niche. I mean there's plenty of quests that are endless strings of victories.

Though the idea that you're slowly bleeding out is pretty wrong. Just looking at your income can show how wrong that is. Your forces are far stronger and your base much more productive than it started, and has grown rather steadily. It's just that your enemies have been growing as well, but that was clear from the start of the quest that it would be the case.
One thing that bothers me is the war with Tedora. It is largely out of our hands, but the outcome might make our success against the orcs irrelevant.

Is our father/family likely to lose the duchy if Tedora wins? Is there an estimate on how much Tedora has to bleed before they accept anything short of unconditional surrender from a 'clearly outmatched' opponent?

Would it have been simply better if daddy dearest swore fealty to the king of Tedora? (Much like I do to Basileus of the Eastern Roman Empire in Crusader Kings 2 and take over from within.) Because I just can't shake the feeling that Tedora's forces would have been useful in stopping the orc invasion.
 
Which brings up a question. Julia has been living with us for a season or more, and she didn't catch the, ah, nuances of the relationship between Tristan and Olivia? Or does she pretend not to notice?

I think there should be no secrets between a doctor and a patient when it comes to their health, but I am also a believer in replaceable staff if the doctor starts getting ideas.
I'm a little uncertain what you're meaning here. If you mean to say you picked up on Julia's subtle flirtations, I'm a little surprised since no one commented.

Julia's fully aware of your relationship with Olivia. However this is a medieval culture, and Olivia is a peasant. Tristan clearly can't marry her, and having a mistress as long as it's vaguely deniable is okay. Admittedly Tristan's a little bad about that last bit, but that's fixable, I mean clearly he understands the concept just fails a bit at the execution.

One thing that bothers me is the war with Tedora. It is largely out of our hands, but the outcome might make our success against the orcs irrelevant.

Is our father/family likely to lose the duchy if Tedora wins? Is there an estimate on how much Tedora has to bleed before they accept anything short of unconditional surrender from a 'clearly outmatched' opponent?

Would it have been simply better if daddy dearest swore fealty to the king of Tedora? (Much like I do to Basileus of the Eastern Roman Empire in Crusader Kings 2 and take over from within.) Because I just can't shake the feeling that Tedora's forces would have been useful in stopping the orc invasion.
If you guys ever sank an action into looking up the regional geopolitics (which has been on the list of default actions) you'd have a better idea about this sort of thing.

It's meant to be a case of bigger players working in the background that you have only small influence on. It's supposed to be a part of working with a small outpost instead of a nation. I've perhaps done it poorly. You're not in a position where losing the duchy entirely is too much of a concern anymore though. The more Tedora's bloodied the more likely they are to get attacked by even more nations or accept a peace at an affordable price to avoid getting weaker.

Maybe it would have been better in a cold logic way to swear fealty, but there were other factors as well.

How much extra wall would that require?
1-2 actions worth. You built quite close to the forest to begin with, and then planted Nerissa at the closest part to you.
 
Would it have been simply better if daddy dearest swore fealty to the king of Tedora? (Much like I do to Basileus of the Eastern Roman Empire in Crusader Kings 2 and take over from within.) Because I just can't shake the feeling that Tedora's forces would have been useful in stopping the orc invasion.
Tedora is bigger, and thus probably has a lot more neighbours to watch out for, as they have just learned.

Most likely, were Revaria to subordinate itself to them, they would merely use it as a buffer. We were perfectly capable of watching our border with the army we had, why would they commit the lives of their own soldiers?
 
Last edited:
Could Edgar and/or Adolphina plausibly find us some settlers and/or mercenaries from outside of the Duchy of Revaria?
Or maybe put us in contact with some religious heads, who would be amenable to calling formation of a small-scale crusade against the orcs for a modest donations of several thousands thalers over the next few years.
 
Last edited:
Mercenaries I can get, but what do we want to do with settlers?

The workes, the lumberjacks etc. could probably count as settlers, seeing how some of them lived here for years, but why would we want people without a defined profession living here?

And if we are talking someone who could be of use to the outpost, money could attract them even from within Revaria.
 
Last edited:
Well admittedly I find this reply a little depressing. I had thought a quest that was rather difficult would find a decent niche. I mean there's plenty of quests that are endless strings of victories.

Though the idea that you're slowly bleeding out is pretty wrong. Just looking at your income can show how wrong that is. Your forces are far stronger and your base much more productive than it started, and has grown rather steadily. It's just that your enemies have been growing as well, but that was clear from the start of the quest that it would be the case.
The thing about losing or seemingly not winning is that stuff is suppose to buildup to a bigger victory.
It does not feel like there have been any clear victories. There is tension, but no payoff. Tension without a release, well, that's why he feels like we're bleeding out. Surviving the winter will feel like a pyrrhic victory at best.

Sure we're in a better position than the starting position of... traitorous pikemen... But now we're understaffed, in winter, without reinforcements, under siege. The situation doesn't feel any better.

Befriending the Plant person is our only clear victory. But well, the benefits from it don't feel immediate or impactful. Shame that.

Anyhow, I'm enjoying the quest regardless of our rolls and my analysis. Ain't gonna stop reading.
 
Back
Top