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The problem with Sauske Uchiha(And Shonen as a whole)

RedAlert

RedAlert

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Lexington
Alright so here's an unpopular opinion, I don't like Sauske Uchiha, in fact I outright despise the very existence of his character. His character is the worst portrayal of the whole "Dark Hero/ Anti-Hero" trope in Manga and Anime, because the actions he takes in the later half of Naruto, and especially Shippuden shows him at his worst, to the point where I don't understand why he's called an Anti-Hero when he's obviously a villain, sure he went through a traumatic experience as a child but the doesn't give him the excuse to do what he did. What's worse is that during the end of the series and Sauske is brought back to the village, everyone just rolls with it, he doesn't get punished or anything because at that point Kakashi is Hokage and can pull as many strings as he wants. This is overall my problem with the ending as even Orochimaru gets a happy ending, despite committing crimes far worse than Sauske.

Sauske's character has become a detriment to most Shonen, because of his overwhelming popularity, so instead of using actual talent, the writters just make expys of Sauske, and the fans eat it up.

Seriously, fuck Sauske
 
RedAlert said:
Alright so here's an unpopular opinion, I don't like Sauske Uchiha, in fact I outright despise the very existence of his character. His character is the worst portrayal of the whole "Dark Hero/ Anti-Hero" trope in Manga and Anime, because the actions he takes in the later half of Naruto, and especially Shippuden shows him at his worst, to the point where I don't understand why he's called an Anti-Hero when he's obviously a villain, sure he went through a traumatic experience as a child but the doesn't give him the excuse to do what he did. What's worse is that during the end of the series and Sauske is brought back to the village, everyone just rolls with it, he doesn't get punished or anything because at that point Kakashi is Hokage and can pull as many strings as he wants. This is overall my problem with the ending as even Orochimaru gets a happy ending, despite committing crimes far worse than Sauske.

Sauske's character has become a detriment to most Shonen, because of his overwhelming popularity, so instead of using actual talent, the writters just make expys of Sauske, and the fans eat it up.

Seriously, fuck Sauske
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1. This is not an unpopular opinion. It's exceedingly common actually
2. Sasuke only acts villainous in one arc, and there are massive extenuating circumstances in that arc. Otherwise, he acts according to a moral code (Such not killing enemies if he can avoid) and nigh-exclusively fights other villains. He fights Orochimaru, he fights Akatsuki, he fights Madara, he helps to save the world, etc. Calling him a villain requires massive amounts of willful ignorance
 
Jcogginsa said:
1. This is not an unpopular opinion. It's exceedingly common actually
2. Sasuke only acts villainous in one arc, and there are massive extenuating circumstances in that arc. Otherwise, he acts according to a moral code (Such not killing enemies if he can avoid) and nigh-exclusively fights other villains. He fights Orochimaru, he fights Akatsuki, he fights Madara, he helps to save the world, etc. Calling him a villain requires massive amounts of willful ignorance
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So the fact he tries to kill everyone is just going to be ignored huh? Also he willingly joined up with Orochimaru, and worked under him for the majority of Shippuden
 
Jcogginsa said:
2. Sasuke only acts villainous in one arc, and there are massive extenuating circumstances in that arc. Otherwise, he acts according to a moral code (Such not killing enemies if he can avoid) and nigh-exclusively fights other villains. He fights Orochimaru, he fights Akatsuki, he fights Madara, he helps to save the world, etc. Calling him a villain requires massive amounts of willful ignorance
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No one is talking about Sasuke here. The discussion is about Sauske.

RedAlert said:
Sauske's character has become a detriment to most Shonen, because of his overwhelming popularity, so instead of using actual talent, the writters just make expys of Sauske, and the fans eat it up.
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The "rival" archetype existed before Naruto was a thing, though. For example, there is Vegeta from Dragon Ball. Not to mention the different ways authors implement the whole concept.
 
RedAlert said:
Alright so here's an unpopular opinion, I don't like Sauske Uchiha
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... That's an unpopular opinion?

Anyway, while I do think the way Kishimoto executed the plot around him was at times really clumsy and stupid, I can at least appreciate somewhat what he tried to do with his arc. In fact, it was mostly working until mid-Shippuden in my opinion - then I can't help but think the wheels all came off.

Nonetheless, I don't think he's to blame for any particular trend in shounen anime. As said on the post just above mine, characters like Vegeta, or Ikki from Saint Seiya, are much more likely culprit.
 
Tada Taro said:
No one is talking about Sasuke here. The discussion is about Sauske.


The "rival" archetype existed before Naruto was a thing, though. For example, there is Vegeta from Dragon Ball. Not to mention the different ways authors implement the whole concept.
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The thin with Vegeta though is that no one but Goku and later Bulma was okay with him staying on Earth after the Namek, they were pretty suspicious of him, and it wasn't until around the tail end of the Cell Games Arc and the later half of the Buu Arc where he actually redeemed himself, and even then he didn't turn around and go, "Now I'm going to kill you Kakarot, and claim this planet for my own!"
 
RedAlert said:
The thin with Vegeta though is that no one but Goku and later Bulma was okay with him staying on Earth after the Namek, they were pretty suspicious of him, and it wasn't until around the tail end of the Cell Games Arc and the later half of the Buu Arc where he actually redeemed himself, and even then he didn't turn around and go, "Now I'm going to kill you Kakarot, and claim this planet for my own!"
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Not the point I was trying to make. You see, there are two things about your position. First, while Sasuke perhaps helped to make the archetype more popular, it existed before him. Sasuke is just another variant of already existing concept. Second, you've stated that because of Sasuke's popularity, shonen writers now create an expy of him without trying. Can you add evidences to that?
 
Tada Taro said:
Not the point I was trying to make. You see, there are two things about your position. First, while Sasuke perhaps helped to make the archetype more popular, it existed before him. Sasuke is just another variant of already existing concept. Second, you've stated that because of Sasuke's popularity, shonen writers now create an expy of him without trying. Can you add evidences to that?
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The ones I can name off the top of my head are:
Haseo from .hack//root
Levi from Attack on Titan
Kageyama from Haikyuu
 
Sasuke is an expy of a much better character: Kurapika from HxH. Not terribly relevant but I wanted to say it.
 
Jcogginsa said:
1. Sasuke never tried to kill everyone
2. Sasuke killing Orochimaru was basically the second thing he did in Shippuden
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When the Team 7 meets for the first time, Sasuke charges at Sakura with his sword pointed at her. Yamato comes in-between them.
At the bridge, he almost kills her twice; Sakura is rescued twice.
When in the barrier Obito made with his Rinngean rods (the same barrier in which he was about to fire off four Bijuu Bombs that would have vaporized everyone within the barrier, as all of the alive alliance soldiers were there), he told Jugo that he was about to summon the hawk and take Naruto and Jugo with him. Yes, he meant to leave everyone within the barrier, which included Sakura.
Then, when Kaguya shifted them to the lava dimension, Sasuke dragged Naruto away, leaving her to get burnt to death. In fact, when she screamed and was about to fall in when floating Naruto saved them all, he didn't even flinch or look back, hah.
I suppose you mean that Sauske was trying to give them all hugs and attacking them is his way of saying hello
 
RedAlert said:
Haseo from .hack//root
Levi from Attack on Titan
Kageyama from Haikyuu
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Could you expand on that? I mean, having no real knowledge of .hack//root and Haikyuu, I can't comment on those, but Levi from Attack on Titan seems like a strange pick as a Sasuke expy.

I mean, I can see a couple of superficial differences (a somewhat similar look, among the last of their clan/family), but they don't fulfill the same role in the story at all and have basically no common personality trait (I... guess they're usually quiet?). So I'm not sure what I'm supposed to see here.
 
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Macros said:
Could you expand on that? I mean, having no real knowledge of .hack//root and Haikyuu, I can't comment on those, but Levi from Attack on Titan seems like a strange pick as a Sasuke expy.

I mean, I can see a couple of superficial differences (a somewhat similar look, among the last of their clan/family), but they don't fulfill the same role in the story at all and have basically no common personality trait (I... guess they're usually quiet?). So I'm not sure what I'm supposed to see here.
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I guess its sort of like the whole brooding thing, but I freely admit that I haven't watched the show in the long time, so I may be remembering wrong.
 
RedAlert said:
The ones I can name off the top of my head are:
Haseo from .hack//root
Levi from Attack on Titan
Kageyama from Haikyuu
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I don't know Kageyama or Haseo, but Sasuke and Levi have no meaningful similarities

RedAlert said:
When the Team 7 meets for the first time, Sasuke charges at Sakura with his sword pointed at her. Yamato comes in-between them.
At the bridge, he almost kills her twice; Sakura is rescued twice.
When in the barrier Obito made with his Rinngean rods (the same barrier in which he was about to fire off four Bijuu Bombs that would have vaporized everyone within the barrier, as all of the alive alliance soldiers were there), he told Jugo that he was about to summon the hawk and take Naruto and Jugo with him. Yes, he meant to leave everyone within the barrier, which included Sakura.
Then, when Kaguya shifted them to the lava dimension, Sasuke dragged Naruto away, leaving her to get burnt to death. In fact, when she screamed and was about to fall in when floating Naruto saved them all, he didn't even flinch or look back, hah.
I suppose you mean that Sauske was trying to give them all hugs and attacking them is his way of saying hello
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Yes, and none of that is Sasuke trying to kill everyone. Sasuke making a few half-hearted attempts to attack his friends doesn't overshadow him literally saving the world
Selwyn said:
Sasuke is an expy of a much better character: Kurapika from HxH. Not terribly relevant but I wanted to say it.
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That's impressive, considering that Sasuke was created before Kurapika
 
Jcogginsa said:
I don't know Kageyama or Haseo, but Sasuke and Levi have no meaningful similarities


Yes, and none of that is Sasuke trying to kill everyone. Sasuke making a few half-hearted attempts to attack his friends doesn't overshadow him literally saving the world

That's impressive, considering that Sasuke was created before Kurapika
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When in the barrier Obito made with his Rinngean rods (the same barrier in which he was about to fire off four Bijuu Bombs that would have vaporized everyone within the barrier, as all of the alive alliance soldiers were there), He( Sauske not Obito) told Jugo that he was about to summon the hawk and take Naruto and Jugo with him. Yes, he meant to leave everyone within the barrier, which included Sakura.

When the Team 7 meets for the first time, Sasuke charges at Sakura with his sword pointed at her. Yamato comes in-between them.
At the bridge, he almost kills her twice; Sakura is rescued twice.

Sauske intentionally tries to kill them, he doesn't do it half-heartedly, he isn't under mind control, he deliberately tries to kill them without any sign of remorse.
Also:
HunterxHunter first serialized in shonen jump on March 3, 1998 and Naruto came out a year later
 
RedAlert said:
When in the barrier Obito made with his Rinngean rods (the same barrier in which he was about to fire off four Bijuu Bombs that would have vaporized everyone within the barrier, as all of the alive alliance soldiers were there), He( Sauske not Obito) told Jugo that he was about to summon the hawk and take Naruto and Jugo with him. Yes, he meant to leave everyone within the barrier, which included Sakura.

When the Team 7 meets for the first time, Sasuke charges at Sakura with his sword pointed at her. Yamato comes in-between them.
At the bridge, he almost kills her twice; Sakura is rescued twice.

Sauske intentionally tries to kill them, he doesn't do it half-heartedly, he isn't under mind control, he deliberately tries to kill them without any sign of remorse.
Also:
HunterxHunter first serialized in shonen jump on March 3, 1998 and Naruto came out a year later
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He definitely does do it half heartedly when they first meet in Shippuden. If he wanted them dead, they would have died

As for the barrier thing, calling that a murder attempt is completely an utterly moronic in the extreme. Sasuke has no means of getting them out of the barrier, so he's not 'leaving them behind'.
 
RedAlert said:
When the Team 7 meets for the first time, Sasuke charges at Sakura with his sword pointed at her. Yamato comes in-between them.
At the bridge, he almost kills her twice; Sakura is rescued twice.
When in the barrier Obito made with his Rinngean rods (the same barrier in which he was about to fire off four Bijuu Bombs that would have vaporized everyone within the barrier, as all of the alive alliance soldiers were there), he told Jugo that he was about to summon the hawk and take Naruto and Jugo with him. Yes, he meant to leave everyone within the barrier, which included Sakura.
Then, when Kaguya shifted them to the lava dimension, Sasuke dragged Naruto away, leaving her to get burnt to death. In fact, when she screamed and was about to fall in when floating Naruto saved them all, he didn't even flinch or look back, hah.
I suppose you mean that Sauske was trying to give them all hugs and attacking them is his way of saying hello
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Half the examples you describe are explicitly other characters trying to kill other characters with Sasuke simply not investing effort to save them. The first two you list count, but as others note, were rather half-hearted. While Sasuke is an unlikable prick who causes lots of shit and Shippuden is terribly written dreck, you seem to be going out of the way to demonize him even within that context. There are countless Rival characters which have done worse things and still been forgiven, starting with the Dragonball Z example mentioned before.
 
Jcogginsa said:
He definitely does do it half heartedly when they first meet in Shippuden. If he wanted them dead, they would have died

As for the barrier thing, calling that a murder attempt is completely an utterly moronic in the extreme. Sasuke has no means of getting them out of the barrier, so he's not 'leaving them behind'.
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Half-heartedly trying to murder someone is still attempted murder, he was still trying to kill them. That's like saying that if someone tried to murder someone else but did it half-heartedly, they should be left off the hook, what kind of logic is that?
 
RedAlert said:
Half-heartedly trying to murder someone is still attempted murder, he was still trying to kill them. That's like saying that if someone tried to murder someone else but did it half-heartedly, they should be left off the hook, what kind of logic is that?
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Sasuke got let off the hook because he helped Save the World
 
RedAlert said:
Yes but he's still a traitor, and a murderer/attempted murderer, but everyone in Konoha just welcome him back with open arms and it makes no sense, even Vegeta didn't get that same treatment once he switched sides.
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Vegeta was an infinitely worse person than Sasuke was, because he committed Genocide.

And you don't get to ignore the fact that Sasuke saved the fucking world
 
firefossil said:
Half the examples you describe are explicitly other characters trying to kill other characters with Sasuke simply not investing effort to save them. The first two you list count, but as others note, were rather half-hearted. While Sasuke is an unlikable prick who causes lots of shit and Shippuden is terribly written dreck, you seem to be going out of the way to demonize him even within that context. There are countless Rival characters which have done worse things and still been forgiven, starting with the Dragonball Z example mentioned before.
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The difference between Vegeta and Sauske, is that even in Z no one but Goku, and maybe Gohan actually forgave him for the things he did, sure everyone else just kinda...moved on, but until the end of the Cell Games Arc, and midway through the Buu Arc
 
Jcogginsa said:
Vegeta was an infinitely worse person than Sasuke was, because he committed Genocide.

And you don't get to ignore the fact that Sasuke saved the fucking world
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Yes and Vegeta also saved the world as well, going by that logic, Vegeta should also be forgiven for all the terrible things he did, including when he committed genocide.
 
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