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The Once and Future King - Godzilla: King of the Monsters

OfSpaceandTime said:
I actually like how Rodan had his ass handed to him by Ghidorah, and then became submissive to him. Gives him some character moments later such as when Godzilla just shoots him a look and his response is the "Oh shit" face.

Godzilla should be able to go up against Ghidorah on his own, but not be able to kill him on his own. The first time Ghidorah was ever in a film, it took a Larvae form of Mothra, Rodan, and Godzilla to take him down. This Ghidorah was a beast from Hellspace who didn't fit into the natural order. Plus, the three heads also kind of gives the three headed beastie a pseudo numbers advantage. And Godzilla doesn't always need to be all powerful. Especially this one. He's an old man, he cannot possibly win every fight on his own even if he's used to fighting outmanned and out matched.

As for Ghidorah needing to die? Yes. He had one Hell of a run, but I don't see this Ghidorah as the kind who'd run. Even in the face of certain death this one(at least the middle head) would rather die fighting than run.
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Yea, I figured it's also easier to choreograph a 2 v 2 fight as opposed to a 3 v 1 (otherwise Rodan or Mothra will likely look very useless in the fight).

And I personally agree with the idea that Godzilla doesn't need to be able to beat Ghidorah in the 1 v 1. Godzilla's the King of Monsters, but that doesn't mean he wins every fight. And he doesn't even need to. The King isn't the strongest or the one with the ability to win any fights. Godzilla's the King in KOTM in large part due to having Mothra as his queen too, and frankly I like that idea of "king due to cooperation=symbiosis etc., instead of just raw power dominance over everything else" better thematically.

Agreed personally with Ghidorah not fleeing too-do you think that the combat we saw is still plausible with the Monstersarts Photo sizes or nah?
 
I was okay with the combat we got from the sizes of the two. Ghidorah had a strength advantage that's easily explainable by just being so much bigger than Godzilla, though this wouldn't be the first time Big G has been dragged around be one of his flying enemies. I think it's plausible.
 
TURBODERP said:
Is the size difference as shown in the photo too much for melee combat like we saw in the actual movie to be plausible in your eyes? If so, what do you feel is the upper limit of the size difference between Godzilla and Ghidorah that still makes (melee) combat between the two plausible-looking to the audience/you?
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Personally I think I like the Monsterarts size difference; Ghidorah's size in the actual movie was still pretty great, but making him at least slightly bigger relative to Godzilla certainly wouldn't have hurt.

TURBODERP said:
Related, did you think/want Rodan to join in with Mothra and Godzilla to fight Ghidorah? Or would that make Ghidorah seem too powerful?
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I mean, Ghidorah's basically Godzilla's greatest nemesis; IMO there's no such thing as making him too powerful XD
Although I do quite like Rodan's role in the movie as-is, so I personally wouldn't see the need to change that.

TURBODERP said:
And last, does Godzilla need to kill Ghidorah for KOTM to work? As in, can the Showa era "Ghidorah gets the shit kicked out of him and flees" kinda ending work, or does that seem too much of a copout (even if Ghidorah loses a head or two)?
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Yeah, I'm inclined to say killing him is the only real way to make it work in this case. He felt so unstoppable here that having him flee would undercut that too much, even if it was after Godzilla fries his wings and side-heads. It was a "neither can live while the other survives" sort of scenario at play. (And I do like how the movie did have the head G ripped off earlier remain, leaving open the possibility of a return even after the full fatality)
 
We all also know, this is how King Ghidorah feels about Godzilla.



Edit: In Japanese he's actually saying "Godzilla is leaving."
 
Also, it's hard to tell how many movies Legendary will have and having major hanging plotthreads (like Ghidorah still around!) is a questionable decision. Trading a weaker ending for movie 3 in exchange for a possible villain return in 5-6 (which they could do with some regeneration hijinks or a second Ghidorah!) is a soft move, of the type that has helped undermine other cinematic universes more interested in teasing the future than telling a strong story now.

Personally I expect the Monsterverse to end up with 4 movies total, but 4 solid movies because they aren't trying to build to a big event that may never come.
 
Gonna keep peppering ya'll with "what if" questions since the feedback I've gotten so far is great.

What is the more realistic way that the Janjira coverup from G2014 could work, or is the movie's depiction fairly realistic?

In the movie, the Janjira event happens in 1999, and the coverup happens for 15 years. However the city wasn't radioactive and Cranston's character figured that out really fast. Given that, I find it implausible that nobody tried to breach it or explore it for 15 years...either that or MONARCH was conducting a good surveillance and misinformation campaign.

If we assume MONARCH is an international organization, and that there is a good amount of radiation still in the city remains for "unknown" reasons (the MUTO incubating), would it be plausible to have MONARCH set up an outpost in the middle of the city remains but nobody really cares because it's public knowledge that the city is still irradiated pretty notably and MONARCH is an organization that nobody really cares about and people think just has to do with the nuclear tests (and MONARCH can probably front as that?)?
 
TURBODERP said:
If we assume MONARCH is an international organization, and that there is a good amount of radiation still in the city remains for "unknown" reasons (the MUTO incubating), would it be plausible to have MONARCH set up an outpost in the middle of the city remains but nobody really cares because it's public knowledge that the city is still irradiated pretty notably and MONARCH is an organization that nobody really cares about and people think just has to do with the nuclear tests (and MONARCH can probably front as that?)?
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Honestly, I kinda like this idea, yeah. If you're known as an organization related to nuclear power, nobody's going to question you setting up shop in a place where nuclear power went wrong. Then the fact that that nuclear power is specifically related to giant lizards and insects becomes a lie of omission more than anything, and it's not a conclusion most people would exactly jump to right away.
 
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1953: Godzilla as metaphor for the horrors of nuclear warfare.
2019: Godzilla as metaphor for how nuclear energy will save our ass from climate change.

Seriously, nuking Godzilla while he's napping in Atlantis to pep him up to save the world from a three-headed alien dragon and his pteranodon buddy has to be one of the most gloriously insane things I've ever seen in a movie.
 
Balaur said:
1953: Godzilla as metaphor for the horrors of nuclear warfare.
2019: Godzilla as metaphor for how nuclear energy will save our ass from climate change.

Seriously, nuking Godzilla while he's napping in Atlantis to pep him up to save the world from a three-headed alien dragon and his pteranodon buddy has to be one of the most gloriously insane things I've ever seen in a movie.
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to be fair
 
Being more on point, it's pretty much impossible to determine the true death toll from the fallout of the Chernobyl accident. Direct, immediately as a result of the incident was only a few dozen people, but the cancer rates are very much trending upwards in eastern Europe over the last few decades.

I support nuclear energy, but one shouldn't undersell how dangerous it can be when improperly handled.
 
Nottheunmaker said:
Being more on point, it's pretty much impossible to determine the true death toll from the fallout of the Chernobyl accident. Direct, immediately as a result of the incident was only a few dozen people, but the cancer rates are very much trending upwards in eastern Europe over the last few decades.

I support nuclear energy, but one shouldn't undersell how dangerous it can be when improperly handled.
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To be fair, Eastern Europe has plenty of environmental and socioeconomic problems so it isn't a direct causation by Chernobyl.
 
Fivemarks said:
To be fair, Eastern Europe has plenty of environmental and socioeconomic problems so it isn't a direct causation by Chernobyl.
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Hogwash. Tell me the former citizens of Pripyat, who were only 30 kilometers away from the burning reactor, and weren't evacuated for over a week aren't affected. Tell me the tens of thousands of men who had to go through the contaminated area to put down pets, livestock and wildlife before burning whole forests down aren't affected. Would you like to see pictures of children with brith defects that can be tied directly back the disaster? Would you like to see pictures of what the lingering radiation is doing to the people who have returned to the exclusion zone?

Don't bullshit me and say a nuclear reactor that was burning for over a week only caused 31 deaths.
 
Nottheunmaker said:
Hogwash. Tell me the former citizens of Pripyat, who were only 30 kilometers away from the burning reactor, and weren't evacuated for over a week aren't affected. Tell me the tens of thousands of men who had to go through the contaminated area to put down pets, livestock and wildlife before burning whole forests down aren't affected. Would you like to see pictures of children with brith defects that can be tied directly back the disaster? Would you like to see pictures of what the lingering radiation is doing to the people who have returned to the exclusion zone?

Don't bullshit me and say a nuclear reactor that was burning for over a week only caused 31 deaths.
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Dude, don't take what I say and twist it into some bullshit that you know I didn't mean. You may get away with that with some other people, but don't fuck with me. I ain't so afraid of the moderation staff that I won't tell you to go fuck off with that shit.

What I clearly meant was that you can't say that Chernobyl is the only or even main cause for the rise in cancers in eastern Europe. That isn't the same as saying that Chernobyl did no harm whatsoever., because, demonstrability, it did do clear and direct harm and cause cancers.
 
Bit of a tangent, but I've only just discovered the thread and there's one thing that really struck me.
The scene with Godzilla's revival strikes a pretty obvious parallel to ancient human sacrificial rites. Especially the ancient Aztecs, who believed their chief sun god was powered by blood and, importantly, human sacrifice.
So Godzilla, a being of nuclear fire (IE: sun-stuff) that is literally called a god, gets supercharged when a lone man climbs the steps to the top of what is quite obviously a temple and willingly gives his life. That's some pretty heavy handed symbolism.

I found it pretty fascinating, so I'm wondering if anyone else noticed that.
 
The sequence where Rodan breaks off from the Argo in a fright and everything goes quiet until you start seeing lightning reveal the sihlouette of Ghidorah before his eyes light up and he makes his threat display with those awful, horrific sneers on his faces is probably the most terrifying Kaiju entrance I've ever seen. It's just masterful. The wordless horror on Sam and Chen's faces and Colonel Foster's plea to dive the hell out of there ASAP also help sell it. Everyone realizes that they're flying right at evil incarnate and they're so scared they can't even scream; just plead to not be in the King of Terror's line of sight.

But Ghidorah doesn't forget so easily, and once he deals with Rodan he immediately begins the chase again because the Argo isn't dead yet. In that whole two minute sequence it tells you everything you need to know about Ghidorah and how he is perceived by others.
 
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Mental Omega said:
The sequence where Rodan breaks off from the Argo in a fright and everything goes quiet until you start seeing lightning reveal the sihlouette of Ghidorah before his eyes light up and he makes his threat display with those awful, horrific sneers on his faces is probably the most terrifying Kaiju entrance I've ever seen. It's just masterful. The wordless horror on Sam and Chen's faces and Colonel Foster's plea to dive the hell out of there ASAP also help sell it. Everyone realizes that they're flying right at evil incarnate and they're so scared they can't even scream; just plead to not be in the King of Terror's line of sight.

But Ghidorah doesn't forget so easily, and once he deals with Rodan he immediately begins the chase again because the Argo isn't dead yet. In that whole two minute sequence it tells you everything you need to know about Ghidorah and how he is perceived by others.
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I'm rewatching this scene on youtube in low quality and in another language because I remembered how good it was. Thank you.
 
The sequence where Ghidorah's right head notices a sparking transformer and then sucks the Eastern seaboard's electric grid dry to one shot what seems to basically be the entire U.S military not already destroyed by Ghidorah's annihilation of the American capital and blast all the ability to fight out of Godzilla (he's clearly winded from the blast and either Ghidorah has become too strong for Godzilla to grapple with effectively or he's too drained from the shock) is also magnificent to behold. Especially with the sequence where after Godzilla has run out of allies while the last of the American jets crash helplessly to the ground and Ghidorah is just letting loose these cackling, gloating roars while being illuminated by the red hellfire of the destroyed city that follows shortly after. It really has an "all is lost" vibe even before Ghidorah pulls off his finisher move and drops Goji from space; at that point Ghidorah has basically already won the fight, he just decided to style all over his enemy with an orbital drop before moving in to kill him with energy draining.

It's beautiful in a horrific way.
 
Godzilla Creator Teases His Next Battle After 'Godzilla vs. King Kong'
Toho's Godzilla hits Comic-Con with its first booth, part of the Japanese studio's master plan

So it seems the monsterverse is continuing after GvK and that Mechagodzilla won't be showing up in Godzilla vs Kong as the Toho rep specifically said they wanted Mecha-Goji to show up in a later film. Toho seems to be overall very pleased with the Monsterverse as well; and going by this it's likely they'll run their "World of Godzilla" cinematic universe in parallel to the next phase of the monsterverse.

Toho's also interested in having the Jaegers show up in the monsterverse but I'm not sure if that's in Legendary and Toho's hands. It'd certainly be awesome if they managed it though.

Now I suppose we can all just cross our fingers and hope that Toho will give Daiei its blessings to let Gamera finally share the screen with Godzilla (Daiei wanted to cooperate with Toho to make Godzilla vs Gamera some time after Final Wars but Toho refused for a number of not particularly clear reasons; which lead to Daiei making Gamera the brave instead) as I think it might be the big turtle's only real chance of leaving the limbo he's in of being kind of a pop-cultural icon but not really famous enough to be fully one. And Gamera does have some interesting monsters to add to the list of villains for Monsterverse films (though any other heroic monsters would basically all come from Toho, IIRC Gamera never had "allies" the way Godzilla did.)

So it seems that overall; the Reiwa era will be a good time to be a kaiju fan.
 
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So anyone want to take bets on which monster ends up forcing Kong and Godzilla to unite?

Regenerated Ghidorah?

Desighidorah?

Kaiser Ghidorah?

Mecha-Ghidorah?

Destroyah?

Bagan?
 
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