- Location
- Great Khanate of Scotland
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I will say that of all the gods, Hades probably gets the most sympathetic portrayal.
The Olympiomachy: the War Against the Greek Gods
- Thread starter ScottishMongol
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
I will say that of all the gods, Hades probably gets the most sympathetic portrayal.
And even then the whole "rape" thing was added later.
The original idea was that Hades fell in love with Persephone, and Zeus (her father) consented, but because Demeter would never allow the Marriage Zeus and Hades came up with the whole "Abduction" scheme.
Plus some iterations had Hades and Persephone truly love each other.
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Zachanassian
Putting the "trans" in Transleithania
- Location
- Crabtown USA
In the context of this story, you could say Hades is like the kind slave master: maybe a good person on an individual basis but he's still part of an evil system and his kindness does nothing to address the greater horrors that he implicitly supports.
all fictions
I hate you! (it's not against the rules!)
- Location
- Mons Regius
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yes and no. Hades was not a favorite god of the Greeks, who didn't even want to say his name and would avert their eyes when sacrificing to him, said to "enrich himself with our sighs and our tears" by Sophocles, and, in The Iliad, Agamemnon describes him saying "Why do we loathe Hades more than any god, if not because he is so adamantine and unyielding?".
Not only were the Greeks terrified of death, and by default, of Hades as well, but they also knew it was almost impossible to sweet-talk him out of doing something, because, unlike most of the other theoi, he was so stern and no nonsense and took his job seriously. It's not that he was better because he was nice, but because he was just and fair. It was hard to bargain with him, but when it worked, he was more than willing to be helpful and always held his hand of the bargain. He helped Orpheus, but also Sisyphus (when he didn't know he was being tricked), and Heracles when he had to capture Cerberus. He also frequently lent his helm of invisibility. But it was when people crossed him (like Sisyphus and Pirithous) or tried to cheat death (again Sisyphus, but also Asclepius) that he got really angry.
As for Persephone, the various circumstances for her abduction makes it tricky. First, the word "rape" in the ancient world had a different meaning, that is simply "forceful abduction" that might or might not include sexual assault. And in some versions, it might be that Hades simply desired a bride and petitioned his brother Zeus to grant him one of his daughters, and it's Zeus who gave him Persephone and told him to abduct her to circumvent Demeter instead of simply asking her for her daughter's hand. Finally, the abduction story might be a later addition: the story of her being carried off by Hades against her will is not mentioned by Homer, one of her earliest mentions, who simply describes her in The Iliad and The Odyssey as Hades' wife and queen, who exercises her power in the Underworld alongside her husband and carries into effect the curses of men upon the souls of the dead. Her abduction is indeed first mentioned by Hesiod in his Theogony, but since both it and Homer's works were written in the same century, there is no telling which is older.
At least, despite the murky circumstances of their wedding, Hades was faithful to her, with the earliest known versions of his myths being never described with anyone but Persephone. There are two stories of infidelity on separate occasions, with the nymphs Leuce and Minthe, but they seem to be later, Roman additions. Persephone also has a tryst with Adonis in other myths anyway.
I want to stress out that I do not want to excuse the fact that Persephone was most likely taken, physically and sexually, against her will, even if it later became a marriage between two equal partners. Last thing I want is to excuse the Ancient Greeks' rape culture. Rather, I am pointing out the fluid canonicity of such myths and how they can allow different interpretations. I personally suscribe to the headcanon of Overly Sarcastic Productions and its view of their relationship as loving for example (as well as the headcanon for Atalanta and Hippomenes).
Unrelatedly:
Shouldn't Leucosia call her Kore, since that was her old name as the goddess of spring?
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- Location
- Great Khanate of Scotland
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Well, I guess I feel like addressing this now.
First off, thanks @all fictions for the informative post! Honestly choosing which aspects of the Greek "canon" to put in the story was difficult (since there is no such thing, really). However, the Rape/Kidnapping/Bride Stealing of Persephone is her most notable myth, and I felt it would be remiss to not address it.
Yes, after that Hades and Persephone have a fairly equal relationship - certainly one of the better ones in the myths. And in a way, that leads to part of my thesis - we want to sanitize the Greek myths. We want Persephone to have agency, to make the choice to marry him. We see a relationship that's actually pretty fair for its context, and we want the people involved to actually have good intentions. Because we're a culture with our own values and sensibilities, hearing the stories of a culture that takes at face value what we would find abhorrent.
To the Greeks, Hades kidnapped Persephone and forced her to marry him against her will, no two ways about it. To us, the story is one of female autonomy being denied by her male relatives, but that's because to the Greeks female autonomy simply didn't exist. Persephone was always going to be in a marriage against her will, because that's how life worked to the Greeks. And maybe things worked out better than they had any right to - but what kind of message is that?
Their relationship in the story will reflect this complexity - Persephone doesn't just have Stockholm Syndrome, because Stockholm Syndrome requires a repeated pattern of abuse. But as for what actually happens, you'll have to wait and see!
First off, thanks @all fictions for the informative post! Honestly choosing which aspects of the Greek "canon" to put in the story was difficult (since there is no such thing, really). However, the Rape/Kidnapping/Bride Stealing of Persephone is her most notable myth, and I felt it would be remiss to not address it.
Yes, after that Hades and Persephone have a fairly equal relationship - certainly one of the better ones in the myths. And in a way, that leads to part of my thesis - we want to sanitize the Greek myths. We want Persephone to have agency, to make the choice to marry him. We see a relationship that's actually pretty fair for its context, and we want the people involved to actually have good intentions. Because we're a culture with our own values and sensibilities, hearing the stories of a culture that takes at face value what we would find abhorrent.
To the Greeks, Hades kidnapped Persephone and forced her to marry him against her will, no two ways about it. To us, the story is one of female autonomy being denied by her male relatives, but that's because to the Greeks female autonomy simply didn't exist. Persephone was always going to be in a marriage against her will, because that's how life worked to the Greeks. And maybe things worked out better than they had any right to - but what kind of message is that?
Their relationship in the story will reflect this complexity - Persephone doesn't just have Stockholm Syndrome, because Stockholm Syndrome requires a repeated pattern of abuse. But as for what actually happens, you'll have to wait and see!
- Location
- Great Khanate of Scotland
- Pronouns
- She/Her
V.
Erastus' friends would never understand. To them, he would always be "the man who won over Aphrodite".
It was true that Aphrodite had been attracted to him. He was the very specimen of a young man, everything the Greeks thought was attractive - slender, athletic, with a clean face and a head of dark ringlets. The goddess knew how to appreciate beauty, and in the end her attraction had been inflamed to the point where she simply had to be with him, if only for a night.
Erastus would have refused her, she knew. Erastus had heard what happened to men that lay with goddesses, and besides he had an object of affection all his own, one of his fellow soldiers. But the goddess of beauty was not to be denied, and so Erastus had not resisted. He didn't move, he didn't speak, but it was enough for her to enjoy his body, which in the end was all she really wanted. There had been a whirlwind of a night, and then in the morning she had left him with the marks of her affection on him. He had lain there, and he knew one thing for certain: he had never once had a choice in the matter.
His friends didn't see it that way. No matter what he said, all they heard was "I laid with Aphrodite herself."
Perhaps it had been a mistake to tell them, he thought afterwards. He had been afraid that they would call him a liar, but he had felt helpless and wanted his friends' sympathy. Now he would have preferred disbelief to the praise they showered on him.
The more he had insisted that she had forced the encounter, the more they had grown confused. She hadn't struck him down for lying about having her in his bed, nor had she struck him down for bragging about it...but what man wouldn't want Aphrodite in his bed? What man would refuse her? And anyway, how could a woman, even a goddess, force a man into bed? The more Erastus argued, the more they begin to think that perhaps he was a bit cracked after all.
Erastus had learned before the confusion had turned to mockery. He no longer shared his story, but the damage had been done. His friends drifted away, especially as he grew more withdrawn, brooding over Aphrodite and his own doubts. His partners stopped coming to him altogether after he had failed to perform. He was moody, and spent far too much time sharpening his sword, and in the end he decided that whatever the others might say, he knew his own truth. And his truth was that a goddess had raped him, and that there would be no justice from it.
He was discharged from the army, and so he had gone looking for somewhere else, where the people didn't know him or his story. He also needed to learn more about the gods, about Aphrodite, and perhaps learn some way a god could be made to answer for their wrongs.
They said the best storytellers in Greece lived in Athens.
Erastus' friends would never understand. To them, he would always be "the man who won over Aphrodite".
It was true that Aphrodite had been attracted to him. He was the very specimen of a young man, everything the Greeks thought was attractive - slender, athletic, with a clean face and a head of dark ringlets. The goddess knew how to appreciate beauty, and in the end her attraction had been inflamed to the point where she simply had to be with him, if only for a night.
Erastus would have refused her, she knew. Erastus had heard what happened to men that lay with goddesses, and besides he had an object of affection all his own, one of his fellow soldiers. But the goddess of beauty was not to be denied, and so Erastus had not resisted. He didn't move, he didn't speak, but it was enough for her to enjoy his body, which in the end was all she really wanted. There had been a whirlwind of a night, and then in the morning she had left him with the marks of her affection on him. He had lain there, and he knew one thing for certain: he had never once had a choice in the matter.
His friends didn't see it that way. No matter what he said, all they heard was "I laid with Aphrodite herself."
Perhaps it had been a mistake to tell them, he thought afterwards. He had been afraid that they would call him a liar, but he had felt helpless and wanted his friends' sympathy. Now he would have preferred disbelief to the praise they showered on him.
The more he had insisted that she had forced the encounter, the more they had grown confused. She hadn't struck him down for lying about having her in his bed, nor had she struck him down for bragging about it...but what man wouldn't want Aphrodite in his bed? What man would refuse her? And anyway, how could a woman, even a goddess, force a man into bed? The more Erastus argued, the more they begin to think that perhaps he was a bit cracked after all.
Erastus had learned before the confusion had turned to mockery. He no longer shared his story, but the damage had been done. His friends drifted away, especially as he grew more withdrawn, brooding over Aphrodite and his own doubts. His partners stopped coming to him altogether after he had failed to perform. He was moody, and spent far too much time sharpening his sword, and in the end he decided that whatever the others might say, he knew his own truth. And his truth was that a goddess had raped him, and that there would be no justice from it.
He was discharged from the army, and so he had gone looking for somewhere else, where the people didn't know him or his story. He also needed to learn more about the gods, about Aphrodite, and perhaps learn some way a god could be made to answer for their wrongs.
They said the best storytellers in Greece lived in Athens.
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- Location
- Great Khanate of Scotland
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Thanks for the chapter
But it seems to be repeated
No idea how that happened!
Careful. The Gods have a bad habit of passing on the buck, if I recall. I mean it's not like Zeus's bastards had a choice in their father's unfaithfulness to Hera.
- Location
- Great Khanate of Scotland
- Pronouns
- She/Her
V.
Prometheus poured a libation over the small altar and chanted aloud.
"Poena, daughter of Aither and Gaia, show yourself. Crafty Peona, she-dragon, I have need of you."
This was no goddess or nymph that Prometheus called out to. He was requesting the presence of a daemon, the physical manifestation of one of the ills that afflicted mankind.
Poena, as it happened, was the daemon of Retribution. The patron spirit of punishment and penalties, of the recompense paid in gold to a murder victim's family.
Soon a woman appeared, descending out of the sky on feathered wings. She was gird in armor and bore a spear in one hand and a coil of chain in the other, with a dagger at her belt. A snake curled around her forehead like a headband.
"Why have you called on me, Titan? There is a man in Thrace in want of killing."
"I have a task for you," he said, "A wrong that needs set to right."
Poena scoffed.
"If this is about your imprisonment, that was the will of the gods. You defied the order of Zeus."
"Zeus gave an unjust order," Prometheus couldn't help but say, "But that is not what I mean."
The daemona laughed.
"Don't lie to me, Prometheus. I know you wish to see Zeus undone."
"That is true, but it is not for my own sake. I'm oddly fond of humanity, as I'm sure you understand, and it grieves me to see them suffer under the rules of the gods."
Poena's lip curled in a cruel smirk.
"Humans are beasts. They murder, steal, and cheat each other, and it is only myself and my sisters that exist to bring the consequences."
"Exactly. You bring a balance. Every transgression needs to be accounted for."
The daemona narrowed her eyes. After a moment, she decided to let him continue.
"Go on," she said, chain rattling as she rested her hand on her hip.
"You are a daughter of Aither and Gaia. You have been in this world since the beginning. You know the cycle of the Universe."
"Don't play games with me, Prometheus," she scoffed. The Titan of forethought pressed on, not wishing to test her patience.
"The Primordials ruled the Universe, until Kronos castrated his father Ouranos. Then the Titans ruled, until they were overthrown by the Olympians in the Titanomachy and Zeus cast his father Kronos into Tartarus. Every generation has been replaced by the one that came after it."
"The gods cannot be overthrown. The Gigantomachy proved that."
Prometheus shook his head.
"That was not in line with the cycle. The Gigantes were children of Gaia, not of the gods. The children of the gods are..."
"Man," Poena finished, then laughed.
"You see? The gods have inflicted ills on men and continued to rule. There is a cosmic imbalance."
Poena considered her fingernails for a moment.
"So you want to lead your precious humans against their creators. Why do you need me?"
"They know their retribution is just, but with you at their side, the deeper laws of the Universe are at play. You alone, the spirit of Retribution, can hold anyone responsible. That is the power of daemons. And if you join them...you can bring punishment on their transgressors yourself."
"You mean fight alongside them? How droll..."
"It is the best way. How do you feel about the god Ares?"
Now Poena narrowed her eyes, all traces of amusement gone.
"So many wars. So many unjust wars. And so many undeserved victories. Yes, there is an accounting to be made there."
She suddenly gave him a broad, toothy grin. Not for nothing was she called "She-dragon".
"So, do you have an army? A group of heroes? Who are these agents of vengeance you wish for me to aid?"
Prometheus let out a breath of relief. Even gods and Titans were not completely safe from daemons.
"The pieces are already in motion. I have given them a few nudges, but we'll need to go to Athens..."
Prometheus poured a libation over the small altar and chanted aloud.
"Poena, daughter of Aither and Gaia, show yourself. Crafty Peona, she-dragon, I have need of you."
This was no goddess or nymph that Prometheus called out to. He was requesting the presence of a daemon, the physical manifestation of one of the ills that afflicted mankind.
Poena, as it happened, was the daemon of Retribution. The patron spirit of punishment and penalties, of the recompense paid in gold to a murder victim's family.
Soon a woman appeared, descending out of the sky on feathered wings. She was gird in armor and bore a spear in one hand and a coil of chain in the other, with a dagger at her belt. A snake curled around her forehead like a headband.
"Why have you called on me, Titan? There is a man in Thrace in want of killing."
"I have a task for you," he said, "A wrong that needs set to right."
Poena scoffed.
"If this is about your imprisonment, that was the will of the gods. You defied the order of Zeus."
"Zeus gave an unjust order," Prometheus couldn't help but say, "But that is not what I mean."
The daemona laughed.
"Don't lie to me, Prometheus. I know you wish to see Zeus undone."
"That is true, but it is not for my own sake. I'm oddly fond of humanity, as I'm sure you understand, and it grieves me to see them suffer under the rules of the gods."
Poena's lip curled in a cruel smirk.
"Humans are beasts. They murder, steal, and cheat each other, and it is only myself and my sisters that exist to bring the consequences."
"Exactly. You bring a balance. Every transgression needs to be accounted for."
The daemona narrowed her eyes. After a moment, she decided to let him continue.
"Go on," she said, chain rattling as she rested her hand on her hip.
"You are a daughter of Aither and Gaia. You have been in this world since the beginning. You know the cycle of the Universe."
"Don't play games with me, Prometheus," she scoffed. The Titan of forethought pressed on, not wishing to test her patience.
"The Primordials ruled the Universe, until Kronos castrated his father Ouranos. Then the Titans ruled, until they were overthrown by the Olympians in the Titanomachy and Zeus cast his father Kronos into Tartarus. Every generation has been replaced by the one that came after it."
"The gods cannot be overthrown. The Gigantomachy proved that."
Prometheus shook his head.
"That was not in line with the cycle. The Gigantes were children of Gaia, not of the gods. The children of the gods are..."
"Man," Poena finished, then laughed.
"You see? The gods have inflicted ills on men and continued to rule. There is a cosmic imbalance."
Poena considered her fingernails for a moment.
"So you want to lead your precious humans against their creators. Why do you need me?"
"They know their retribution is just, but with you at their side, the deeper laws of the Universe are at play. You alone, the spirit of Retribution, can hold anyone responsible. That is the power of daemons. And if you join them...you can bring punishment on their transgressors yourself."
"You mean fight alongside them? How droll..."
"It is the best way. How do you feel about the god Ares?"
Now Poena narrowed her eyes, all traces of amusement gone.
"So many wars. So many unjust wars. And so many undeserved victories. Yes, there is an accounting to be made there."
She suddenly gave him a broad, toothy grin. Not for nothing was she called "She-dragon".
"So, do you have an army? A group of heroes? Who are these agents of vengeance you wish for me to aid?"
Prometheus let out a breath of relief. Even gods and Titans were not completely safe from daemons.
"The pieces are already in motion. I have given them a few nudges, but we'll need to go to Athens..."
- Location
- Massachusetts, U.S
Now I get that Poena is a spirit of retribution, but why not Nemesis? Poena's just the assistant of the goddess of retribution, and since Nemesis is outside the general family of the olympians (she's a daughter of Nyx and maybe also Erebus, making her Zeus's cousin once removed, same generation as Kronos and Rhea) and Zeus raped her I'd imagine that she'd be fairly easy to get on side.
EDIT: That actually makes me wonder why Zeus isn't dead yet if he did that to Nemesis. Hypnos, another of Nyx's kids, put him to sleep so Hera could torment Heracles and when Zeus woke up and chased after him he ran to Nyx, who was so much more powerful than him that he was terrified of her so he gave up trying to attack Hypnos.
EDIT: That actually makes me wonder why Zeus isn't dead yet if he did that to Nemesis. Hypnos, another of Nyx's kids, put him to sleep so Hera could torment Heracles and when Zeus woke up and chased after him he ran to Nyx, who was so much more powerful than him that he was terrified of her so he gave up trying to attack Hypnos.
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- Location
- Great Khanate of Scotland
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I actually had to narrow it down from several candidates, although this spot in the roster was always going to be a minor goddess, to signal early on that not all the divines are happy with the current world order and not all of them are willing to rally to the gods.
Nemesis struck me as more of a spirit of some abstract, divine balancing force, who brought downfall on those who flew too high. You know, a counter to hubris, that sort of thing. Poena seemed better fitting to the idea of retribution, debts against your fellow man that need to be paid - poine was the name for blood money you were supposed to pay to the family of someone you murdered, for example. Now, the two are certainly related - aside from both being spirits of retribution, Poena was one of Nemesis' retainers, but I like to think of the relationship as the one between a judge and the headsman.
Ultimately, though, the decision was a character-based one. Poena was obscure enough that she isn't well-known but had just enough written on her that I could make her into an actual character.
all fictions
I hate you! (it's not against the rules!)
- Location
- Mons Regius
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Most of the problems come from the Olympians/the Dodekatheon as such rather than most theoi, so it's not like it is all surprising to see a daemon ally with mortals.
- Location
- Massachusetts, U.S
Now that I think of it, I'm curious what other deities might end up showing up to gang up on the Olympians. It seems a bit strange to me that all of the Protogenoi and their children apart from Gaia and Uranus (who was apparently Gaia's son? 
) don't really have much to do with the major happenings in Greek mythology. Sure some of them still seem to interact with the world, like the aforementioned Nemesis, plus Thanatos, Hypnos, etc. but really the biggest role in major myths I've heard from someone from outside the line of Gaia is when Eris tossed that apple and started the Trojan War. Makes me wonder if some of them might try to get a slice of the pie or become more relevant (really all Tartarus is good for it seems is to be a prison to put people in) in the lives of mortals. Hemera for one sounds like a nice substitute Apollo since I haven't heard anything bad about her and I guess someone needs to drive the sun.
) don't really have much to do with the major happenings in Greek mythology. Sure some of them still seem to interact with the world, like the aforementioned Nemesis, plus Thanatos, Hypnos, etc. but really the biggest role in major myths I've heard from someone from outside the line of Gaia is when Eris tossed that apple and started the Trojan War. Makes me wonder if some of them might try to get a slice of the pie or become more relevant (really all Tartarus is good for it seems is to be a prison to put people in) in the lives of mortals. Hemera for one sounds like a nice substitute Apollo since I haven't heard anything bad about her and I guess someone needs to drive the sun.
- Location
- Great Khanate of Scotland
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Now that I think of it, I'm curious what other deities might end up showing up to gang up on the Olympians. It seems a bit strange to me that all of the Protogenoi and their children apart from Gaia and Uranus (who was apparently Gaia's son?
Wow, Helios gets no fucking respect.
(I kid, but seriously, in the versions of the myths I'm using for this story, Helios drives the sun and Selene drives the moon. They think Leto's kids are upstarts.)
Walker of Paths
All Things Die
- Location
- To Be Honest, I Don't Know Either.
You're kind of underselling how badly Percy Jackson misinterprets Greek Myth here. Riordan really doesn't try to make the goods look bad beyond the whole 'they don't really acknowledge their kids' plotline of the first set.
Seriously, I dropped reading them altogether after the one that portrayed Arachne as in the wrong for wanting revenge over her treatment. This was long before I learned the unchanged tale of Medusa, and now I just cringe when I think of the horrible irony of a son of Poseidon named Perseus killing Medusa in her own home. (With the help of a daughter of Athena, even!)
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- Location
- Massachusetts, U.S
...Yeah, didn't realize that until I posted it, think I read too much Percy Jackson back in the day. General point still stands though, if Prometheus gets his way there's likely going to be a lot of vacancies that are going to need to be filled.
all fictions
I hate you! (it's not against the rules!)
- Location
- Mons Regius
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Seems relevant to this fic:
- Location
- Omega
You better not touch a single hair on Hestia. She's the only Olympian I truly love and enjoy and worship, you know, you know.