The Old World: Dark Age of the Empire

As risky as it is, I think we should try to save Ar Ulric. If we later on manage to convince him to support our government, it can further legitimize us and heavily hinder Ottilian Girlboss Empress from snatching formerly Middenland aligned electors.

Also, it's nice to finally catch up. Great story Warkeymon, may dice be with Bismarck and co on things to come.
 
The Ar-Ulric is in south-eastern Stirland, you can reach him with the Iron Companies by crossing at Sauerapfel or you might try to use the Whittlers to reach him. Although the Whittlers are hardly going to hold off Vlad.
This is more of a covert ops situation.

The best thing would be to send a small, nimble unit to secure the guy and then race day and night, while changing horses, to the nearest safe zone. A large army moves slowly and attracts opposition like a magnet.
 
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Honestly thinking Averland is more important than the Al-Ulric,

first the sigmirates aren't gonna accept not becoming the confesseur and we really need the sigmarites to win this war and to maybe get both ostermark and marienburg in the empire again and contributing funds.

Second if the reikland troops are too late, averland is fucked and we already have 4 provinces that are now dead weights we really don't need to add a fifth we need a strong averland so that they can rebuild their army and then along with the reikland troops we would have 3 armies to try and kill vlad a second time and try to then contain him on the stirland borders

Third politically honestly we just need one just one depndable and usefull ally we can rely on and not one that would backstab us and averland can become that.

Fourth even if we save the Al ulric the chances that the ulricans are gonna accept handing over power to the sigmarites is slim to none

This is more of a covert ops situation.

The best thing would be to send a small, nimble unit to secure the guy and then race day and night, while changing horses, to the nearest safe zone. A large army moves slowly and attracts opposition like a magnet.
The Al-ulric is heavily wounded and can't be easily moved if he could be his teutogen guards which are a nimble unit that could escape would have already done so, also probably why warkeymon mentioned that the whittles can't stand up to Vlad
 
Just to check but the DC isn't lowering despite the near pass? Also, is it past Hexennacht already?
Nothing has changed that would lower the DC. For tech options a close failure means building up a knowledge base and disproving possible hypotheses and therefore making future research easier, a close failure to attact major Dogs-of-War doesn't make a second attempt any easier.

Hexennacht is New Years Eve each year.
 
Warkeymon a question was the witch actually chaotic or they weren't and it's usual empire before magnus considering all Witches touched by chaos, also really unlucky they died, if they won this could have been what we needed to start forming the colleges.
 
Warkeymon a question was the witch actually chaotic or they weren't and it's usual empire before magnus considering all Witches touched by chaos, also really unlucky they died, if they won this could have been what we needed to start forming the colleges.
You have no way of knowing for certain because most people who knew any real detail about what was going on died. But the fairly hardline stance that the rest of the Empire is going with is that being a Witch is inherently Chaotic. It's possible the Halflings had some sort of exception to that rule on their hands and found the one good Witch in the Old World. It's more likely though that their natural resistance to Chaos and Magic meant they were more liberal to use the weapons of the Enemy against Sylvania than they should be.
 
You know I am half thinking that we should try and Centralize the Empire. The more loosely held together we are the more likely that something like this will keep happening in an inopportune time. We need to make sure that come next term we or our successor will have the power and resources of an Empire United and won't just implode on itself the moment it looks like the Big Bad Evil is gone.
 
Ugh there was a reason I favored emperor but in name over claiming. Vlad makes it hard to focus on the institution building we actually need to do to unify the empire for good.
 
The Ottilian Empress making a play for it is not surprising; that she effectively managed to restore much of her traditional power base is wholly unexpected. I'd assume Ostermark and Hochland are just hedging their bets, though I'd have expected the former to be more loyal to us, their saviour and the only reason they're not currently a smoking pile of rubble.



@Vocalend for my understanding, what exactly was/is the plan in ceding the Imperial crown and leadership of the Sigmarite faction to Reikland? Any deal with the GT before was made with the understanding that we were the only natural leader of the Sigmarite faction.

Are we no longer interested in an Imperial bid when the election rolls around? Why the agreement with the Imperialist faction then? Are we dangling the crown before the Price of Reikland to rope him into declaring fealty, to then force him to accept us as the compromise candidate when push comes to shove?
 
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@Vocalend for my understanding, what exactly was/is the plan in ceding the Imperial crown and leadership of the Sigmarite faction to Reikland? Any deal with the GT before was made with the understanding that we were the only natural leader of the Sigmarite faction.

Are we no longer interested in an Imperial bid when the election rolls around? Why the agreement with the Imperialist faction then? Are we dangling the crown before the Price of Reikland to rope him into declaring fealty, to then force him to accept us as the compromise candidate when push comes to shove?
More or less, we need more rope yes. Either we hang together or we hang separately. Ultimately, Bismarck is someone who doesn't inherently care about being Emperor, only that there is a singular Empire afterwards. And we've seen the amount of work that we need to do even as mere Interim Emperor. The Grand Prince considers himself to be the Eleventh Hour Cavalry and considering that Reikland just gave us eight Imperial Dice, let him think so for the next six turns until the Election. If he doesn't die in the same ignominious fashion as Todbringer that is. If the Grand Prince manages to hold on and claim victory, then we'll step back into Chancellor and nothing much changes because as impetuous as he is, we're too powerful a kingmaker seat to countenance not courting. And no one can particularly doubt our credentials either.

And by tangling with the Imperialists, we share the blame of potential loss with them. We've given them a taste of what victory looks like by just being Interim Emperor. Now they have a chance of backing it up: Making them try to court votes mean that if the Election comes up and fails due to bad votes, then Bismarck can't be entirely blamed. Which is good because they're still technically a rebelling faction.

Lastly, the Empire project and propaganda is working. With only merely two years of there being an United Empire, the Otillians are already trying to ape us by making a parallel Empire structure to gain legitimacy. The allure of an United Empire is very strong that with how the blocs are being shaped, chances are we're going to go to a breakaway style where smaller blocs of Provinces becomes Confederacies and legitimizing the Power Blocs into smaller Empires.
 
The allure of an United Empire is very strong that with how the blocs are being shaped, chances are we're going to go to a breakaway style where smaller blocs of Provinces becomes Confederacies and legitimizing the Power Blocs into smaller Empires.
I sure hope not.

There is only one Empire and for many centuries every pretender claimed to rule it in its entirety. No formal secession ever took place and I would like to keep it that way.
 
Keep in mind, the Otillian position is incredibly weak in some ways, the Empress' forces have been bloodied by Vlad and he nearly took Talabheim. The fact that she still managed to get so many provinces to sign on with her suggests just how much inertia the big three claimant imperial dynasties have. The Ottilian empire is going to struggle immensely to keep Vlad in check, and while Vlad isn't currently maneuvering against them, this is liable to be a conflict lasting decades.

I'd actually suggest now is a time to go for the absolutist push recognizing the Empire might not be united at the next election, but that it needs strong foundations to create a lasting peace when it does eventually fully coalesce. If we can retain Wissenland, Altdorf, and Middenheim as the core of whatever Empire emerges and undergird it with strong and capable institutions- it's a matter of when not if the Empire fully reconstitutes.

The idea we can recreate the empire, and then at least partially wash our hands of it as a job well done is just going to inevitably lead to fragmentation and frustration even if it sees momentary success. We need to consider this a project that will take years upon years to fully realize. The key benefit here is that we can now work on developing imperial institutions even without the properly unified empire.
The allure of an United Empire is very strong that with how the blocs are being shaped, chances are we're going to go to a breakaway style where smaller blocs of Provinces becomes Confederacies and legitimizing the Power Blocs into smaller Empires.
I don't think this is actually a viable long term position to take, there's enough cultural emphasis on a united empire that there will always be some force pushing for the consolidation of the imperial provinces. That, and there's enough examples of the slow decline and diminishing of the Empire that some kind of pushback favoring a stronger united position is a natural response. The autonomy promised by smaller, weaker confederations is much less meaningful to the dead of the Drakwald, or of Stirland/Sylvania, and to a lesser extent fallen Solland.
 
There is only one Empire and for many centuries every pretender claimed to rule it in its entirety. No formal secession ever took place and I would like to keep it that way.
No, there have always been at least two Empires for longer than the Middle Ages have been a thing. The practical idea that there is One Empire of Man has never happened in the lifespan of everyone not human or even most Dwarves. It is in fact a semi good thing if it evolves in the direction of unitary states where smaller/less influential Provinces become more vassalized. It means the number of 'players' are reduced.

It'd set back a proper united Empire until an actual Magnus figure comes, but we always knew it's a long road and hard shot.
If we can retain Wissenland, Altdorf, and Middenheim [...]
See here's the problem:
The Grand Barony Nordland
Authority: -2
Contribution: 1 Dice
Nordland is ruled almost as much by the late Emperor's imperious sister as by its Grand Baron, and so you might expect greater ties between it and Imperial Authority. However the Emperor and his sister are more than capable of sibling squabbles and bickering and are currently arguing over the place of women in the Cult of Ulric. Nordland has begun pressing their Princess' claim to the Imperial Throne. In memory of the Wolf. the Nordland remains at least somewhat within your Empire.
The Grand Duchy of Middenland
Authority: 27
Contribution: 4 Dice
The Imperial Heartland, home to the Wolf Emperor himself, Middenland is very much loyal to the man who won the Crossing of the Talabec and perhaps more importantly the War on the Rivers against Nordland and Reikland. Kornblum, and Kornblum alone seems to be keeping the Fauchslag firmly in the government but depending on how the crisis of the Wolf's death falls the Middenland's Contribution is likely to fall rapidly and sharply.
We can't guarantee Todbringer's sister to be quiescent and not split it 3 Ways again. I think we really just have to acknowledge the truth and not go for Absolutism. Or rather, if anyone wishes to go for Absolutism Plan, it means accepting a full bore risk of needing to charge straight at Vlad to usurp Reikland because no way an Absolutist is going to suffer someone kill-stealing. And we've seen how well that normally goes OTL and ITL.
 
No, there have always been at least two Empires for longer than the Middle Ages have been a thing. The practical idea that there is One Empire of Man has never happened in the lifespan of everyone not human or even most Dwarves. It is in fact a semi good thing if it evolves in the direction of unitary states where smaller/less influential Provinces become more vassalized. It means the number of 'players' are reduced.
De facto, but not de iure. Legally speaking, there was always one Empire and each pretender claimed to be the only Emperor of it, while consistently denying that title to others.
 
We can't guarantee Todbringer's sister to be quiescent and not split it 3 Ways again. I think we really just have to acknowledge the truth and not go for Absolutism. Or rather, if anyone wishes to go for Absolutism Plan, it means accepting a full bore risk of needing to charge straight at Vlad to usurp Reikland because no way an Absolutist is going to suffer someone kill-stealing. And we've seen how well that normally goes OTL and ITL.
I'm actually saying we go for Absolutist, while accepting the very real chance that Reikland gets in the driver seat. And as for the risk of the sister, that's actually a potential fracture point between Nordland and Middenland as far as I'm concerned. Chances are she's not going to wind up elector for both Middenland and Nordland and then suddenly her becoming Empress is a direct threat to whoever their family digs up to rule Middenland.

Go absolutist, invest strongly into the imperial institutions and give Kornblum a lot of resources to weld Middenland's interests to that of the Empire as a whole. Prime the Elector of Reikland with some sort of shared plan before the election, get Kruger on board with his experience of the threat the Empire is facing, that sort of thing. These three years should be spent building up laying the ground work for the three strongest provinces in the Empire to serve as a combined springboard. We have the levers to push on, we just need to start pushing them sooner than later.
 
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So, overall strategy wise, it looks like we now need to balance fighting Vlad with trying to keep the Empire together. So far, Middenheim hasn't also jumped ship, but once that happens we'll more or less be back down to square one. So, besides fighting the vampires, our goal should be to try and undermine the Ottilian Empire while keeping our own coalition afloat. Easier said than done, perhaps.
 
The issue with the Ottilians is that they aren't the ones (currently) getting devastated by Vlad. If Vlad had gone for them, they'd be on the brink already and dependent on us (again) to save their asses. Despite them being sieged by Vlad a few years ago, they seem to think they can make us deal with him while they build up. This is technically true, but the more devastation Vlad creates the stronger our position once we defeat him. But the issue is that our popularity would be localized based on who got hurt by him the most, which isn't all the provinces Ottila just stole. We gotta focus on propaganda to agitate their internal factions. Divide and conquer.

We can try and steal Ostland or at least make them neutral be relying on our current relationship and asking the current Admiral to continue investing in Salkaten. Pretty sure we've done more for them in the last 10 years than the Ottilians did in the last 100. The Ottilians can't even interfere/protest militarily because they're still weak and we'd have the excuse to kick their asses. I don't know why the fuck Stirland is making trouble when they don't have an army and are literally one Action away from Vlad eating them whole, especially since Otilla does not have the forces to help even if they were so inclined. Maybe we should remind them about that lmao.

At the end of the day though, as long as we get Wissenland, Reikland, and Averland on the same page, we have a decent plurality of the Empire in population and definitely more in industry. Middenland is a stretch but would absolutely make us the most powerful faction. Rely on Kruger and the Ar-Ulric maybe? Hopefully the Grand Theognist is happy with 2 Sigmarite seats on the Council, if he can't be Confessor. We could take our time and win over the other provinces diplomatically and economically, given how relatively weak the Ottilian Empire would be.
 
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what is everyone thinking for our options from the return to Nuln?
I like the idea of the Censor list
The censor list would definitely make secret military operations to kill Vlad (like the one I mentioned before with sniper rifles) far more viable. But I'm more towards Van Hal Returns since we need alternative areas where we can harass Vlad to relive our current front while also subtly giving pressure on Ostland to remind them who saved their asses and continues to save their asses whenever Vlad is trying to stomp them. We already have a good enough military build-up and a capacity for more that The Militarstutz, while always useful, doesn't seem necessary or as helpful in comparison to Van Hal's contribution.
 
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De facto, but not de iure. Legally speaking, there was always one Empire and each pretender claimed to be the only Emperor of it, while consistently denying that title to others.
The part that made Bismarck weird as other Electors puts it is the part where he actively believes in a fantasy state that has never existed for at least a millennium. Every claimant claims that they're the only emperor but facts being what they are, no one that matters believes that to be the case. Take a look at Kornblum's doubts and phrasing that the "United Empire" is merely an alliance between Nuln and Middenheim. Look at the fact that two more Seat-holders resigning from their position because they're going back to their court, with one of them doing so because he's hedging bets. Look at the fact that the First Admiral tentatively tendering her resignation because the 'fuck you got mine' attitude is so entrenched

No one cares about the legalities except for the Verenan, which is probably a pithy quote folks makes IC already about Bismarck.
Go absolutist, invest strongly into the imperial institutions and give Kornblum a lot of resources to weld Middenland's interests to that of the Empire as a whole. Prime the Elector of Reikland with some sort of shared plan before the election, get Kruger on board with his experience of the threat the Empire is facing, that sort of thing. These three years should be spent building up laying the ground work for the three strongest provinces in the Empire to serve as a combined springboard. We have the levers to push on, we just need to start pushing them sooner than later.
Mmmm, if folks wish for Absolutism, then I suppose I could make a plan based on that. Which Actions do you think should work as the levers then? Also @Warkeymon some questions:
  1. I don't see the WoQM on the threadmark but how else would we increase the Militarstutz level and get an Action Dice for it specifically, outside of crits?
  2. Regardless of picking the Van Hal option, will he be returning next turn?
  3. I assume further "Emperor Only" actions will be unlocked after we decide to be more absolutist or not?
 
Thought I'd try and summarize the key votes and issues we have this turn. As well as interject with my own thoughts.

MIlitary Bonuses.
[ ] The Censor List
(The Iron Companies become immune to intelligence leaks.)

Not that impactful by itself, but very useful if we deploy the Iron Companies right. Basically makes the Iron Companies movements virtually invisible to Vlad until they are spotted in the field. Fantastic as long as the Iron Companies deploy alone, which sometimes we might not want to.

[ ] Van Hal Returns
(Van Hal secures the Veldt and a new force made up of the Ungol horsetribes of the Veldt and Dwarfs from Karak Kadrin.)

Most immediate gain. This secures Ostermark just that bit more. Should help with making sure Ostermark doesn't flip to the Ottillians. Strengthens our isolated northern flank against Sylvania.

[ ] The Militarstutz
(The Militarstutz expands to the next level and gains an Action Dice.)

Amazing bonus, but it will take time to see its benefits. An extra action die to funding the Militarstutz means we can constantly churn out arms and armour for the war effort.

Unless a plan has a specific overarching goal in mind, any of these would be good to pick. I would rate either Van Hal or the Militarstutz slightly higher than the censor list. It's going to take precise wording each time we direct the Iron Companies to see the benefits from the censor list. The other two basically work for themselves in the background.

Reikland Appointments.

[ ] Baron Otterbein of Reinsfeld
[ ] Margrave von Mackensen of Helmgart
[ ] Both
[ ] Neither

I'm of the opinion we take Otterbein but not von Mackensen. Otterbein seems competent enough given his description. I wouldn't mind making him Secretary. Von Mackensen is a hell no from me. The Master of Spies position is too important to give to what seems to be a carouser and Reikland patsy. It has to be given to someone competent. I would really like if we could give Van Hal the position instead. I bet he could do a lot more with the resources being Master of Spies gives him, if he accepts of course.

Imperialist Strategy.
[ ] Submit to Reality
Carolin's Imperialists will need focus on inter-Province diplomacy.
[ ] An Absolute Reaction
Carolin's Imperialists will need focus on strengthening the Civil Service.
[ ] The Strong Rule the Weak
Carolin's Imperialists will need focus on the war effort.

This would be much easier to decide on if we knew the mechanical implications of the Imperialist's aid. @Warkeymon what exactly are we getting from these? I'm assuming just roll bonuses?

From a Watsonian angle, I think I prefer the Strong Rule the Weak. It's basically a given that the Empire is in a real bad place right now. The Empire is in a state where the idea of Imperial unity is more a polite fiction than actual reality. Focusing on inter-province diplomacy might be a good strategy if we were in peacetime, which we're not. I wouldn't mind flooding the Civil Service with Nulner bureaucrats but there's a chance that whatever bureaucracy we build up will either be used by another Imperial Pretender or outright abolished if we don't win the next election.

I say focus on the war effort. Make sure Wissenland comes out of the Vampire Wars with the best and most intact army in the Empire. Show the other electors we definitely have the biggest stick. We're very much in interesting times/ a might makes right era. To paraphrase from that other Bismarck, the questions of the day won't be settled with speeches or votes, but by iron and blood.

Sorcery and the Grand Elder.
[ ] The Quinsberry Declaration
[ ] Abomination Unveiled
[ ] Death Cures All Ills

So we can either make the halflings happy and denounce the rumors that their dead Grand Elder used magic to fight Vlad, make the halflings mad by denouncing the dead Grand Elder, or just ignore the issue entirely because the Grand Elder and the witch is dead.

Unless we're aiming for a specific outcome out of this, I say we just ignore it. Not worth the hassle.

The First Admiral
[ ] First Admiral
You refuse the resignation and leave Bendijk as First Admiral. She held that position long before there was a single Emperor, you see no reason to deny her it now. So long as she keeps fulfilling the duties then you've no interest in sending her back to Marienburg.
[ ] Grand Baron
The Grand Baron of Westerland has taken Marienburg out of your version of the Empire, and out of the Ottilian version of it too. Perhaps Marienburg is too used to independence. But so long as Westerland is outside of your Empire, you'll not be rewarding it with a Seat. Remove Bendijk from her position.

My opinion is that we should keep the First Admiral at least until she finishes her work in Salkalten, if only so we don't have to spend the AP to appoint a new Grand Admiral this turn. We can then grant it to either Nordland or Ostland, whoever seems easiest to court away from the Ottillians.

Actually wait, as long as a plan has the dice for the appointment, we can go for that instead. That helps us hamstring the Ottillians asap. Westerland is basically out of consideration in so far as another election, unless we really push to keep them in our sphere.

Edit: We don't have enough Imperial Dice to do two appointments this turn unless we want one to have a fair chance at failing. DC is 150 and we only have 5 dice.

Misc.
[ ] Write-In a name for your new son.

[] Sigismund

I've been playing a lot of Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 and the name of one of the main antagonists is really striking me. It's also appropriately Warhammer. It's also the name of the first High Marshal of the Black Templars in 40k so it's definitely Warhammer. Can't remember if there's any named figures already named Sigismund in WHFB too.

Edit:
Oh and in terms of actual turn stuff, just wanted to remind everyone we still have to
  • Appoint a new Master of Spies (ASAP)
  • Finish the Sol Templar Order. Halfway done as of now.
  • Investigate the low-level chaos activity. We should be ready to assault it if it's gets larger. I'm betting it will.
 
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Mmmm, if folks wish for Absolutism, then I suppose I could make a plan based on that. Which Actions do you think should work as the levers then? Also @Warkeymon some questions:
  1. I don't see the WoQM on the threadmark but how else would we increase the Militarstutz level and get an Action Dice for it specifically, outside of crits?
  2. Regardless of picking the Van Hal option, will he be returning next turn?
  3. I assume further "Emperor Only" actions will be unlocked after we decide to be more absolutist or not?

The Militarstutz is a City Institution available for expansion in the Stewardship actions.

Van Hal will reappear next turn, with or without some new friends.

If you decide to go absolutist, or you declare yourself Emperor in full then you'll get an action 'Issue an Imperial Decree' in which you can simply declare that something should be so within your Empire. It doesn't necessarily make it become so on its own, but an Imperial Decree is in theory legally binding and essentially is just a broad way of enacting new laws or raising new taxes or that sort of thing.
For the time being however you're only Interim Emperor.

If there's actions based on being Emperor or Interim Emperor you'd like to try out then feel free to suggest some.

This would be much easier to decide on if we knew the mechanical implications of the Imperialist's aid. @Warkeymon what exactly are we getting from these? I'm assuming just roll bonuses?

Carolin and her Imperialists will apply their own action dice in the background towards the agreed aim, separately to your own actions. And yes that can result in you having bonuses to actions that work towards the agreed aim as well since the Imperialists are doing some work in that direction too.
 
If you decide to go absolutist, or you declare yourself Emperor in full then you'll get an action 'Issue an Imperial Decree' in which you can simply declare that something should be so within your Empire. It doesn't necessarily make it become so on its own, but an Imperial Decree is in theory legally binding and essentially is just a broad way of enacting new laws or raising new taxes or that sort of thing.
For the time being however you're only Interim Emperor.

See now this is turning me off from absolutism. An Imperial Decree will only be binding so long as the provinces agree to enforce it. There's been too much flip-flopping from one Imperial Pretender to the next to really guarantee we can get everyone to do it.

High relations don't seem to matter very much in regard to wider Imperial politics. We saw this when Averland flipped to Middenland at the last election. We're seeing it now with the Ottillian Empress trying to create a rival Imperial government.

Carolin and her Imperialists will apply their own action dice in the background towards the agreed aim, separately to your own actions. And yes that can result in you having bonuses to actions that work towards the agreed aim as well since the Imperialists are doing some work in that direction too.
So with that I'm assuming we'd be getting
  • Bonuses to diplomacy rolls when talking to electors.
  • Bonuses to Imperial Actions regarding the bureaucracy
  • Bonuses to anything war related (battle rolls, industry stuff, army reforms, replenishment etc.)
Since we derive most of our legitimacy from a promise to combat the current threat of Sylvania, I kind of like the war bonuses the most.

Speaking from an action economy perspective, I also like it because we're able to constantly use war bonuses each turn because we're fighting Vlad.

The other two are good picks, but aren't really as relevant as the war going on. Four votes in the next election are on the line if we can't defend Stirland, the Moot, Ostermark and Averland from Sylvania. Even more from the Ulrican provinces indirectly if we don't handle the Ar-Ulric situation handily.
 
Okay, now the important question is that I have no idea about the immediate battleground at all. I think I am not alone here and it's completely making people wonder to even do, militarily. Fortunately, I have Wonderdraft so I should ask, is this a good summation of the battlescape based on the WHF map?

And I suppose the questions including the one above would be:
  1. Any information whether Vlad is with the Second Army?
  2. Where is Reikland's forces at the moment?
 
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