The Lonely Lioness - Cersei Lannister Quest

Hm, as much as one would like to think otherwise, Kevan is probably not budging, not until the roadblock that is Tywin is neutralized.

Likewise for everyone else where the Westerlands is concerned. There can be no talk of bringing them into the fold before the problem of Tywin is solved.
 
Hm, as much as one would like to think otherwise, Kevan is probably not budging, not until the roadblock that is Tywin is neutralized.

Likewise for everyone else where the Westerlands is concerned. There can be no talk of bringing them into the fold before the problem of Tywin is solved.
Yeah, I don't expect Kevan to immediately betray Tywin. The idea is to make him more amenable to the idea of peace, so that when Tywin does kick the bucket, we have someone in charge who is willing to work with us.
 
I would have said not to try and execute/turf out our one rock solid supporter and financier, but that ship has sailed (along with the king), so let's see what we can do with this.

I don't think trying to treat with the Royces or play prince-maker in Dorne is going to get us anywhere; everyone with eyes can see we're negotiating from a position of weakness, so our promises aren't worth much.

Additionally, if we're gonna boot the High Septon at the request of the Most Faithful, I don't think trying to insert ourselves as High Septon selector is going to go over well. If we want someone who will be pro-us, we keep the High Septon around. Otherwise we're pissing off the High Septon and whatever supporters he has and then insulting the people who are gonna pick his replacement.
I think we may want to hear the High Septon's side of things (i.e., take the action to speak with him) before booting him. It may well be that we want to side with the Most Devout (I think we do, if only for the sake of leverage over the Tyrells; and they do seem to keep courting us for whatever good they think it will do), but we just don't know enough.
 
I think we may want to hear the High Septon's side of things (i.e., take the action to speak with him) before booting him. It may well be that we want to side with the Most Devout (I think we do, if only for the sake of leverage over the Tyrells; and they do seem to keep courting us for whatever good they think it will do), but we just don't know enough.

Yeah; if we just re-actively boot someone without at least listening to him, we're making a decision with only partial information/one side of the story. We need to try and actually be proactive not just react to whatever gets told to us.
 
I think we may want to hear the High Septon's side of things (i.e., take the action to speak with him) before booting him. It may well be that we want to side with the Most Devout (I think we do, if only for the sake of leverage over the Tyrells; and they do seem to keep courting us for whatever good they think it will do), but we just don't know enough.
The High Septons position is fairly straightforward. The Most Devout are rejecting his authority and are increasingly exerting influence over the area around Oldtown. He does not know why, but he thinks this is just a powerplay against him couched as an argument about his alleged lack of piety.
 
Allowing the Faith to gain the power that it has was a dangerous proposition from the start.

While Cersei will not permit the return of the Faith Militant here, allowing the Faith to gain even this much influence may prove problematic in the longer term.
 
You can ask me for candidates if you have some rough parameters what you are looking for.

Edit: Mind you that vaguely threatening letters about Lancel might not be the best way to convince Kevan that you are the sane one here.
 
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I edited my plan to include the letter to Kevan. Again, does anyone know of any potential knights to add to the Kingsguard?
Pretty sure we're asking Joffrey for knights he has in mind any day now. Also, if we're sending a letter to Kevan maybe we can divert the action to talk to the High Septon since committing an act of kin slaying might not do us good if we ordered an assassin. It gets ugly and would help us accommodate the going to be former High Septon.
 
You can ask me for candidates if you have some rough parameters what you are looking for.

Edit: Mind you that vaguely threatening letters about Lancel might not be the best way to convince Kevan that you are the sane one here.
Ok, I adjusted the letter to be less threatening. As for parameters, people who recognize Joffrey as the one true king and who are reasonably good at fighting with a sword (at least 5 years of experience). Ideally, they should also be from the Riverlands or the Reach (I remember we made that recommendation to Joffrey).
 
There's no letter that can be written which is going to shift the course of the war. I really find the strategies that are being explored here dubious at best.

--[] Send a letter to the Royces on their support for the Targaryen pretenders. Offer that we are willing to negotiate with them to remove the mad Lady Arryn and discuss the future of the Vale and the Realm with them.
--[] Send letters to House Yronwood and Quentyn Martell to support his claim as Prince of Dorne and promise him a future royal marriage to Myrcella (after the Seven Kingdoms have stabilized) as well as a Small Council seat.
These are trying to promise people the lands they already control, and again offering an inappropriate betrothal that will likely move Cersei closer to snapping.

--[] Send a letter to Loras Tyrell. Though he may had a falling out with his father, surely he still cares about the rest of his family and does not want to see them harmed. Try to see what it would take for Loras to accept peace and if it would be possible for him to convince Renly to stand down or at the very least not attack King's Landing. Offer a pardon to Loras and Renly as well as all of their troops if they agree to recognize Joffrey as the one true king.
We already tried to pull this one, and it failed. It just shows weakness.

--[] Write a letter to Kevan Lannister to see if he would be willing to see reason and coup/imprison his brother. Tell him that Tywin's petulant pride has led him into attacking people that should be our allies and that he is driving the Seven Kingdoms into further chaos, weakening us when we should be desperately defending against Stannis, Renly, the Targaryen pretenders, etc. Also, remind him that Lancel is still in King's Landing and while we will treat him well, his life as well as the lives of our children will be put in danger if Tywin or another enemy takes advantage of this ridiculous infighting to attack King's Landing.
As the QM mentioned, this is an utterly wild threat to send to Kevan. He's already likely to back Tywin and doesn't like Cersei.

--[] Send a letter to the Most Devout, saying that whoever replaces the High Septon must be approved by the Queen Regent and that they must recognize Joffrey Baratheon, the trueborn son of Robert Baratheon and Cersei Lannister, as the one true king of the Seven Kingdoms.
-[] Give in to the Most Devouts demands and support the removal of the High Septon. (Free Action)
-[] Retain the removed High Septon in the Small Council under a new title Royal Confessor.
-[] Request the Most Devout of two new advisors for the Small Council in an effort to advise us in a godlier manner.
These are just downright insulting to the nature of the Faith's authority and will be unproductive.

-[] Request to Qyburn to eliminate Baelish at his own discretion.
...Qyburn isn't an assassin. This isn't even remotely his deal. Don't make our resident mad scientist think we're crazy, there's still plenty of time.

-[] Request that Edmure write to his nephew Robb Stark, asking that the Stark coordinate with his attack against Tywin. Given the Crown's strained history, it would most likely go over far better than a command directly from King's Landing.
The Stark Host is already embroiled.

-[] Have Shireen and Selyse Baratheon returned to their husband and father, camped out in the Kingswood as he may be.
--[] They will carry with them an offer of peace: Shireen will be declared Lady-Paramount of the Stormlands and betrothed to Tommen Baratheon, while Stannis himself will be offered a chance to take the Black along with however many of his men refuse the crown's offer of clemency.
Giving up your hostages is not typically a working strategy. At best, this might persuade Stannis not to kill Cersei and her children when he takes King's Landing.
 
[X] Plan: Stop Pretending We Have Leverage
-[X] Promote trade with the Free Cities to get more supplies and gold for the war effort.
-[X] Counter the Westerlander raiders in the Crownlands. (Edmure Tully)


That's it. That's the plan. We need to keep supplies coming in (although maybe price controls to stop food riots would be worthwhile). I'd like to try to get in with Olenna and revisit her offer, although it's too late now. Getting Highgarden fully on-side would help a LOT even if we end up as the junior partner, we'd still survive.

Removing the High Septon doesn't seem like it gets us anything right now, especially if we try to tack on a bunch of insulting conditions.

Writing a bunch of letters when we have no leverage to negotiate with any of these people is building a castle in the sky.

I will take suggestions on alternate commanders than Edmure, wish we hadn't made him Hand, but again... too late.
 
These are trying to promise people the lands they already control, and again offering an inappropriate betrothal that will likely move Cersei closer to snapping.
The Eyrie is in civil war and there is no certainty that the Royces will come out on top. Dorne is not in civil war, but they are close to the edge. I don't really see the betrothal as inappropriate and in any case, the marriage won't happen for years.

We already tried to pull this one, and it failed. It just shows weakness.
To be clear, we offered Renly a exile, not a pardon. Sure, it makes us look weak, but it may be our last shot at a peaceful solution.

As the QM mentioned, this is an utterly wild threat to send to Kevan. He's already likely to back Tywin and doesn't like Cersei.
As I mentioned before, I changed the letter.
 
Has anyone thought about simply killing the Lannister raiders and launching retaliatory raids on the traitorous lords?

We have 6 thousand more cavalry.

We half fight, half maintain the status quo.

At this time, the Western Lords must be very worried about their home. Tywin will have to return. (Unless, of course, he wants to go to King's Landing
 
Sending Edmure against Tywin is roughly equivalent to throwing a trout at a lion and will end similarly.

At least as far as I remember the man's general skill and competence.
Eh Edmure gets unfairly shit upon by the Fandom imo. He was decently successful once given command in canon and "failed" because no one told him about the Grand Strategy thst required him to sit back and Clegane roam.

I'm thinking of writing a additional letter to Kevan Lannister to see if he would be willing to see reason and coup/imprison his brother. Tell him that Tywin's pride has led him into attacking people that should be our allies and that he is driving the Seven Kingdoms into chaos when we should be defending against Stannis, Renly, the Targaryen pretenders, etc. Also, remind him that Lancel is still in King's Landing and while we will treat him well, his life will be put in danger if Tywin or another enemy attacks King's Landing while this ridiculous infighting continues.
No way. Kevan's whole life philosophy is "follow Tywins lead," and I cannot think of anything short of mind controlled that'd make him think ditching bro for his hysterical daughter is a good idea. Reminders. We're Cersei. Even if we weren't we're a woman with all the baggage that entails.

We could cut bait on Edmun and send him to die and then get someone else more useful in as Hand, but I don't know if that would work out and it's kind of a hail mary, anyway.
Unfortunately I think we really are "sunk cost" on the Tullys at this point due to them being one of our very very very few allies. Honestly sunk cost probably isn't the right term as there are legit good reasons to want to prop up/prevent the implosion of one of the few people on our side. I don't see how ditching him would gain us anything (time, resources, whatever) that'd make up for it.
 
OK. Time to get serious about things. First: we need to find and secure the King, damnit. The Hound is good, but he's not that good. If we want to find the King, or for him to find us, we need to put all or part of our army in the field near his last known location, so that one of its pickets or outriders might find him or that he might sight or hear the main body and make for it. The King's last known location was Maidenpool, near to Harrenhall, which means taking either:

[] Attempt to attack Harrenhal and Tywin Lannister directly. (Write-In commander)

or

[] Counter the Westerlander raiders in the Crownlands. (Write-In commander)

This is forced. Accept no plan which does not include at least one of these. I am agnostic as to the commander, but we have Edmure Tully, as Hand command of the army probably should fall to him (as it did against Caern once he showed up), and he did attain victory against that pretender. Just be sure to remind him, perhaps in a write-in, that the objective of his expedition is to find and secure the King as much as it is to counter Tywin's raids (not Lannister raids; Tywin is the abettor of brigands and kinslayers, and an attained traitor; not the whole family or all Westerlanders). Tully requires somewhat more management than other commanders might, strategy-wise, competent though he may be in the field. Maybe loan him our Valyrian Steel sword, who knows, it might help.

As for our other action, we have some options.

According to Azel, gathering intel on Casterly Rock to forward to Balon is viable, and may even encourage Tywin to get off our backs. Alternatively, we might want to send a deputation to Stannis (not consisting of our hostages, for goodness sake!) offering to meet somewhere suitably neutral, through plenipotentiaries, to hammer out a deal to get him to leave us alone in exchange for the release of Selyse and Shireen. We want either Stannis or Tywin out of the picture to be able to do more with our army than counter-raid in the Crownlands. For a still further alternative, forcing open the sea lanes with our pretty-big-actually combined fleet, for the purpose of buying food, is totally viable. As a Bote Guy from when I joined the quest, I feel somewhat obligated to pick it. If we are deploying the fleet, it should be commanded by our Master of Ships. Finally, there's the matter of the Faith. I don't like letting it fester, but at least for now, the Most Devout are doing more or less what we want them to do: courting us and annoying the Tyrells sufficiently to keep them from turning on us. And at least with the High Septon cut off from any power base besides us, he has no choice but to continue supporting us. It's not a stable equilibrium, but it'll hold.

Finally, we have a free action sitting out there to promote new Kingsguard, and there is absolutely no reason not to take it except for a dearth of knowledge on my part about what miscellaneous knights are at hand. @Azel ? My inclination is to support someone tied to the Tyrells, and perhaps one of the less objectionable Redcloaks or other Lannister prisoners to show we do not mean them, our homeland and our countrymen any ill will as such. It is merely Tywin who has made himself our enemy.

I'll take a look over the existing plans and see if I'll support any; and if not, will try to come up with something.
 
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As I see it, our other action is equally forced on maintaining the food situation. We've gotten more food, and it immediately became a crisis again, showing that it is worsening. A revolt in KL can be game over, especially since Stannis is making himself popular with the smallfolk.

Nothing else matters if famine begins to stalk.
 
Finally, we have a free action sitting out there to promote new Kingsguard, and there is absolutely no reason not to take it except for a dearth of knowledge on my part about what miscellaneous knights are at hand. @Azel ? My inclination is to support someone tied to the Tyrells, and perhaps one of the less objectionable Redcloaks or other Lannister prisoners to show we mean them, our homeland and our countrymen any ill will as such. It is merely Tywin who has made himself our enemy.
Garth Hightower would be an option for the Reach and Harwyn Plumm for the Westerlands.
 
Revised plan here, taking into account what @Zimmerwald1915 has posted:

[X] Plan: Stabilization
-[X] Institute food price controls to stave off starvation and hunger.
-[X] Counter the Westerlander raiders in the Crownlands. (Randyll Tarly)
--[X] Instruct Tarly that his primary objective is to find the king and return him safely to King's landing it at all possible and to counter the raids of Tywin; he is to make it known that our enemy in this case is Tywin, not the Lannisters as a whole.
-[X] Name new Kingsguard
--[X]Garth Hightower
--[X] Harwynn Plumm

The alternate would be to swap one of the two for the fleet action to reopen the sealanes. Open to suggestions.

Approval votes:

[X] Plan: Aid for Friends, Food for the People
 
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