Where do you use the vehicle, typically? Water? Port. Space? Space Port. Land? Garage. Air... unless split up depending on type of air craft, Hanger.
-
Going forward, links to content from Twitter (now X) will no longer be embedded. Pre-existing links should not be affected.
The Forge of Creation
- Thread starter Emizaquel
- Start date
[X][PERK] Quantity has a Quality all its Own
AntaeusTheGiant
Child of Gaea
- Location
- Lawrence, KS
[X][PLAN] Accept the offer of pearls, coral and other semi-precious resources.
Sounds like a bunch of rare items possibly useful as magic reagents to me.
[X][PERK] Quantity has a Quality all its Own
There actually aren't very many of those. While the Salmon of Knowledge would be really useful right now, Aetherpunk would be a bit overkill until we get a wee bit more of a reputation. Or maybe Theotech? Jump right into founding a religion? I guess we are sort of headed that way....
Sounds like a bunch of rare items possibly useful as magic reagents to me.
[X][PERK] Quantity has a Quality all its Own
There actually aren't very many of those. While the Salmon of Knowledge would be really useful right now, Aetherpunk would be a bit overkill until we get a wee bit more of a reputation. Or maybe Theotech? Jump right into founding a religion? I guess we are sort of headed that way....
- Location
- A Pit Of My Own Making
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X][PLAN] Accept a large supply of salt - several dozen kilograms worth. Many people use salt as a sort of medium of trade.
Basic trade goods is good.
[X][PERK] Quantity has a Quality all its Own
Basic trade goods is good.
[X][PERK] Quantity has a Quality all its Own
Emizaquel
What is a self?
This is kind of where the later addition of the Port and the Spaceport weird things out a little. However, as originally intended, Garage would contain the Shuttle, and we can continue with that interpretation for now.
There are ways to make more fuel for the thing - I haven't figured out what I'm powering it with but most likely I'm going with liquid hydrogen or something not too exotic.
ConfusedPotato
Unverified Verifier
- Location
- Australia
[X][PERK] Quantity has a Quality all its Own
This is why I wrote the Port|dock|station/spaceport suggestions the way I did. Garage for storage, Port|dock|station for interface between mediums, spaceport for a space elevator and non magic space access. This may be part and parcel around the crew problem. (There's also a degree of agency lacking here, delivering completed products instead of knowledge/supplies/support.)
All of these vehicles imply a great deal of infrastructure and support that is lacking, both on and off-craft. Right now, it feels like we're in an uncanny valley where the best we can do is cut the tank up for parts (especially as you removed the bio-diesel provisions of the perk.) It feels like we either need to move towards implicit NPC crew + infrastructure or move towards "Here are parts and designs and technical know-how" and allow the MC to assume more agency about how these various vehicles shape up. Moving this towards "parts and designs" would be a more specific and cheaper perk which includes operational knowledge and *stuff* in addition to materials appropriate to the vehicle in question.
Liquid Hydrogen is a horrible horrible propellant to work with, requiring very fiddly handling knowledge and a great deal of infrastructure. (Take a look at Tim Dodd's video on Stoke Space's design, and the not quite as recent coverage of the SLS mission.) And most liquid-chilled fuels are outside of the implied infrastructure of a warehouseless Celestial Forger. I am not sure what to recommend to resolve this design tension though, sorry.
Emizaquel
What is a self?
I'm tempted to go with a sort of fiat-based homunculus for support crew actually, something like an Invisible Servant of RPG fame.
On the level of spacecraft fuels, I'm saying hydrogen simply because it is relatively easy to source which would mean that the challenges would be in application, not resource acquision. I.E. it would be a building challenge. I wouldn't say you currently have everything you might need for this task, but it is suggesting several more perks that might be useful.
There's some exotic powers that might fill the gaps, but I'm thinking some sort of cryonics item/techbase/education might be an interesting addition.
Or maybe an extra workshop. I mean a Drydock would be nice
I'm also tempted to add a 'Principles' series to the Study table which is a more specific series of knowledge perks that adds savant-level knowledge of one specific phenomenon or principle.
There are several perks that definitely fit the bill.
Last edited:
Explicit NPCs with no personal volition or consciousness work as support crew quite well. Perhaps some variability for flavour -- but explicitly make a restriction that the crew doesn't leave the near environs of the craft. Edge cases: how will a battleship's crew handle boarders? What level of initiative can bridge officers take?
If you want a common fuel, I'd recommend liquid methane instead. See (Terraform Industries whitepaper) -- it can be air-synthesised using solar-power (especially using the Forge's context), is easier to handle, and has its boiling point at -161.5 C instead of -252.8 C.)
A cryonics/fuel and props engineering education would absolutely be useful. Here are some ideas:
Textbook - Rocket Science (50): "Not even rocket science is rocket science." -- a rocketry engineer. This self-updating textbook is supernaturally good at teaching the reader from first principles about all things rocketry, it includes practical projects for the interested individual. The text starts with solid-fuel single-stage rockets, the necessary infrastructure, and analogue guidance computers of the post WWII era. Successfully completing projects advances through the technological eras of space-propulsion, ending at the maximum theoretical tech base implied by the local environment.
Years of Study - Go-juice engineer (150): _Ignition!_ teaches the importance of good running shoes in a rocket propellant lab. You have learned this lesson and others besides. You have spent a career as a clockmaker, gifted chemical engineer, and nuclear engineer (as appropriate) engineering the necessary propellants, fuels, and infrastructure for anything that converts potential energy into usable energy. Cryonics, lab safety, fuel cracking and distillation, waste handling, an experimental Project Orion launch, and even a spot of oil drilling on the side have marked your storied career. You might have even been able to write _Ignition!_.
Workshop - Process Chemical Facility (100): The first time you gain this perk, you gain the ability to summon a factory (meeting and exceeding all safety standards) which employs a mid-late 20th century industrial chemical process at scale. Each time you get this perk again, your facility becomes more efficient and customisable, branching out into different product lines, feedstock, and technological eras. This factory does not require external power input, though raw process materials must be supplied. (Iron for Steel, Crude Oil for Petrol, Air for Liquid Methane, etc...) With a month of work for an average person (and all necessary engineering knowledge), the fundamental process for the facility may be changed.
Last edited:
Saphire
Lurking dragon
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Oh neat, a CF quest! The posts are quite bite-sized, but that makes it more fun with how often those perks roll. So instead of getting spammed with All The Perks within first few hours/days, we get a nice measured out progression on daily-ish basis. Who knew that condensed pacing works so well with CF when not on a deathworld where you have days between disasters rather than months and years?
Now onto the options this time...
[X][PLAN] Accept a large supply of salt - several dozen kilograms worth. Many people use salt as a sort of medium of trade.
Corals and pearls are probably not as useful for us right now as salt. For rituals it probably would need the sea, or be something specific enough to make what we would get from this just not enough.
Gold is absolutely not needed right now - we have no electronics production, no alchemy, probably not fitting for nature and spiritual sacrifices either.
Now salt... Salt is very, very useful. Several dozen kilograms of salt is awesome. It can be used for cooking, for preservation, for some ritualistic and alchemical stuff, and it's apparently an equivalent of money around here too.
[X][PERK] None
Shuttle is a no-go entirely. No infrastructure for launch, nothing for refueling (Garage does NOT refuel, and I think neither does the spaceport?), and there's a big question of "Does it go into Garage, or does it get dumped out in open?". And even if it's in the Garage, it will not get any maintenance in there until we can bring it out - all while having nothing for actually servicing it. So we would have to rush through making sure it's fully storage safe, or end up with something in an undefined state after however long it takes to get launch capability operation.
I am guessing through the magic of author fiat, neither the tank nor the shuttle can be actually cannibalized into parts and materials? Or for more fun, it just disappears from wherever it ends up? That would have an interesting effect on molten metals...
The other perk for people management sounds fun, but we don't exactly have much reach or power for this to be practical. Yeah it might nudge us towards being seen more and more as a leader, but uh, that will take some time and lots of interactions? Reading a bit closely, it makes bigger groups scale much better than it would normally. So I guess for small groups it's near-useless?
Might be useful later on, but it's a bit of an investment.
Oh also, could we please get the top of the post to show what vote went through? I get that there's a voting summary right above, but it's much nicer to just poke the spoiler and see that all at once. Could stuff the points status in there too.
Now onto the options this time...
[X][PLAN] Accept a large supply of salt - several dozen kilograms worth. Many people use salt as a sort of medium of trade.
Corals and pearls are probably not as useful for us right now as salt. For rituals it probably would need the sea, or be something specific enough to make what we would get from this just not enough.
Gold is absolutely not needed right now - we have no electronics production, no alchemy, probably not fitting for nature and spiritual sacrifices either.
Now salt... Salt is very, very useful. Several dozen kilograms of salt is awesome. It can be used for cooking, for preservation, for some ritualistic and alchemical stuff, and it's apparently an equivalent of money around here too.
[X][PERK] None
Shuttle is a no-go entirely. No infrastructure for launch, nothing for refueling (Garage does NOT refuel, and I think neither does the spaceport?), and there's a big question of "Does it go into Garage, or does it get dumped out in open?". And even if it's in the Garage, it will not get any maintenance in there until we can bring it out - all while having nothing for actually servicing it. So we would have to rush through making sure it's fully storage safe, or end up with something in an undefined state after however long it takes to get launch capability operation.
I am guessing through the magic of author fiat, neither the tank nor the shuttle can be actually cannibalized into parts and materials? Or for more fun, it just disappears from wherever it ends up? That would have an interesting effect on molten metals...
The other perk for people management sounds fun, but we don't exactly have much reach or power for this to be practical. Yeah it might nudge us towards being seen more and more as a leader, but uh, that will take some time and lots of interactions? Reading a bit closely, it makes bigger groups scale much better than it would normally. So I guess for small groups it's near-useless?
Might be useful later on, but it's a bit of an investment.
Oh also, could we please get the top of the post to show what vote went through? I get that there's a voting summary right above, but it's much nicer to just poke the spoiler and see that all at once. Could stuff the points status in there too.
Emizaquel
What is a self?
Thank you!
The Shuttle is a sci-fi style spacecraft and does not need dedicated launch infrastructure. I should probably specify. Also current ruling is that it does appear in the garage and it will self repair to pristine condition in a week via Fiat.
I've been playing with it back and forth, and I think a sufficient solution is that as long as you repair/upgrade it before it repairs (One week after the most recent source of damage) any extra products of the repair/upgrade process do not disappear to fuel the repair.
Saphire
Lurking dragon
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Ah, so the Garage changed a bit from what I've seen it described as initially, hm. Got it! That sounds much better. Making the fuel the only immediate issue for getting it to work. Of course, there's a small little issue of "not getting shot down" left in the end. A bit too much risk for nearly no reward as far as things go. Maybe as an ace in the sleeve it could work, but right now... Better not to stir the enemy.
So basically we get to use stuff from that for free for a week until they disappear? Wonder how much advanced metal and electronics there are, and how much could be used for getting something bootstrapped...
Also, is the overall plan for this all to bootstrap the local society, or is the idea for us to get enough weaponry and maybe a team, and get out- wait, nowhere, huh.
So I guess general plan would be to push the society to evolve, fight off the Goa'uld, and then maybe do an SGC?
Should eventually start keeping an eye on the gate. But for now we are just getting "our" village to not randomly collapse so we have a space to work within?
Also, missed a bit that this is a derivative "CF" and not the original. Honestly, I LOVE the idea, of actually generalized CF without all the baggage and with more freedom to interpret it. Sure, it sucks you are not getting all the neat franchises and so... But you don't have to deal with having to mess with specific franchise's weaponry and then somehow expanding on top of that while mixing in all the other franchises around... Urgh, stylistic and technological nightmare, both for the character, and for the writer.
...though, this does make me wonder if there's any equivalent for RWBY's Dust, ME's Eezo, and other exotic matters? Or are we stuck with just the Stargate stuff?
Emizaquel
What is a self?
No, you do get to keep the excess material (via Scale Model or other perks) as long as the vehicle or item, whatever you are sourcing the materials from is in as good or better shape than it started in - this new state effectively becomes the new base condition with regards to Fiat repairs (writing Fiat repeately now has me envisioning a small european car pulling up and an eldritch abomination climbing out to repair whatever is broken).
There are elemental crystals as well as other magical/supernatural resources, though nothing specific for Eezo for now, though I am tempted to add one. Also will be considering adding other exotic materials. Some equivalent to Ragnite or Tiberium might be nice, and I'm probably going to add something to the effect of Elerium and perhaps some kind of super-dimensional nonsense maybe a veiled reference to the TARDIS somehow. Relative Dimensional Matter perhaps?
Emizaquel
What is a self?
I'm not sure if that works if only because it seems like entirely too much of a loophole. If you want a watsonian expression of it, applying a sticker to a tank doesn't create a tank and thus doesn't create a new tank, so creation perks can't kick in, but realistically, it's me as the GM moderating fiat.
However, if you take an armour plate, cut it down and fashion a replacement armour plate and get it on the tank within a week, the remaining material from the original that didn't go through the creation cycle to make the new armour plate would still be available for you to use.
Vote closed
- Location
- Earth
There is no way to close the loophole, now I can just paint a tank now its not just a tank its a painted tank. Or I can weld a flag to it, now its a tank with a flag.
Or if it only triggers with useful stuff I can put some spikes on the top of the tank which are designed to somewhat stop modern missiles, thus it has been modified enough to be a crafting triggering the perks.
Even ignoring all this if it does not work on the entire tank we can, for example, take off an armor plate, and paint on it using it as a canvas, now we have some art, perks trigger, it duplicates, repeat for all the parts of the tank. Put a card in front of it describing it as if it was used in a war, now its a museam art piece.
Plenty of tanks are displayed as art pieces in places like war museums and like so tanks for sure can be considered art. While that may not be considered creating the tank itself it is creating art and the art will duplicate including everything that is consists of which is the tank.
Once you get a crafting output duplication perk there is nothing you can do to stop the duplication in roundabout ways.
As an author, you can try to limit it but its almost impossible to do so without changing the perk itself.
Last edited:
Interlude 24.1
Emizaquel
What is a self?
[x][PLAN] Accept a large supply of salt - several dozen kilograms worth. Many people use salt as a sort of medium of trade.
[x][PERK] Quantity has a Quality all its Own
[x][PERK] Quantity has a Quality all its Own
You agree to a price of quite a large amount of salt. Given how well iron weapons sell, the traders from your village tell you not to be too worried about you getting payment from this specific person. The people here are trustworthy enough that you won't need to worry about them skipping out on payment and even if they do, you won't have problems finding someone else to take the spear off your hands.
Unfortunately, there are few others who can afford iron, so you will have to wait until you arrive in Seaford to engage more clients.
In the meantime, however, you have gathered a few hundred grams of salt for a couple of your more decorative pieces. Apparently, one of the more wealthy merchants wants some pieces to judge other markets for your work.
As it stands you have some... spending money, not enough to buy anything major but enough to peruse the stalls.
You don't find anything too valuable, though you do take the opportunity to sample the local cuisine.
As you follow along with the now much larger trading party to Seaford, you start to think of what you might be looking out for.
[] Metal ores - you have iron, but you could do with some others to flesh out your collection
[] Plants that would be useful for ritual purposes
[] Don't worry about finding things to buy for now, search out clients who might be willing to buy iron and steel from you.
[] Write-in
You could indeed take some iron, make a bunch of nails and smelt those nails back down into more ingots than you started with and create an infinite resource loop as is traditional for a Forge.
No, there is a fairly easy way to draw a line in the sand, and that would be differentiating between upgrades and new creations.
Because of the way this forge is written, I am free to say that only the act of creation triggers Scale Model or Manufacturing Run. I would then exercise my judgement as GM to determine what counts as creation to avoid abuse. I am deliberately leaving the language vague so that future authors can scale the power to fit what they want from the story, but I am explicitly working to moderate it in this case so that it won't just arbitrarily allow you to produce an unlimited number of tanks with a few dozen buckets of paint.
Though reading your post again, and realising that we don't have the Manufacturing Run perk makes me think that you might be confusing the repair fiat and the various speed perks, though I might just be confusing myself here.