Oh, did not know that they are sentient. I'm going to add them later when I make my next category. Thanks.
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The Celestial Menagerie
- Thread starter zagan
- Start date
- Storybuilding Idea
- Location
- france
- Pronouns
- He
Dragon Ball is a category that I considered doing myself but if you're willing to try your hand at it that would be great. It would be complicated, however, as the power level is just insane and all over the place.
Concerning Half-Saiyan or even Saiyan as a transformation, I would tend toward no. If only because the power of that race wary a lot.
What are we talking about? Goku at the beginning of Dragon Ball that can be beaten by a barely trained human. Or Goku at the end of Dragon Ball Z (let alone Super or GT) that can destroy a planet with his pinky.
I'm afraid that it would overshadow anything else that the CM can give. Like "I'm a Super Saiyan why would I bother summoning anything, even a god, to fight for me?"
Of course, there are some other entries in the CM with similar problems but in that case, it would be starker I think
However, if you can find a way to make it work with clear boundaries be my guest.
Oozaru? (Great Ape?) Transformation should still be an option since it only multiplies your strength by ten, though if you make it expensive enough you might be able to have a note that using fusion summoning with it and another transformation creates a transformation greater than its parts.
- Location
- france
- Pronouns
- He
That would be included with a Saiyan/Half-Saiyan transformation not at his own creature.
I meant it as an alternative if he couldn't think of a good way to limit Half-Saiyan with clear boundaries since you just stated an unrestricted Half-Saiyan/Saiyan Transformation would be denied.
What about making it a 800 point power but making it so that it just gives you the ability to use Ki and other baseline Saiyan abilities. And if you want to destroy a planet, you have to train, which would take a horrendous amount of time since you don't have any of the stuff Goku had like the Divine Water, the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, or Ki instructors.
- Location
- france
- Pronouns
- He
Yes, I suppose that with those sorts of restrictions, it could work.
- Location
- france
- Pronouns
- He
I'm not sure what you mean. Multiple combinations of powers and creatures could be used toward that goal, yes. I don't really see the point of a power specifically for that.
It was proposed at some point, I think that once again the problem is a lack of detail on the wiki mainly.
Sup boss, I wondered if there was a specific reason why a 'Persona' category was never created. Was it due to a lack of time or were there better options? If this question has been answered before, I'm sorry for the bother.
The wiki pages were too confusing it seems, though there was still an attempt made.
- Location
- france
- Pronouns
- He
As Pen-Paper Toad said, it was proposed and a fair bit of work was done by Totadileplayz a long while back, in fact, it was nearly finished. But there were a lot of problems with it.
The many, far too many, humanoid Persona first of all. The fact that multiple versions of each Persona exists with widely worrying powers all on the same wiki page was a huge issue. There was also the utter lack of any explanation about how the powers work and the unique elemental flavor for those who never played the games. (That issue exists in other settings but not to that extent.)
So yeah, in the end, the idea was discarded as too complicated to be included. I may revisit the issue if I ever play Persona or Shin Megami Tensei but it's unlikely.
Hmm, you don't mind if I take a crack at it then?
I would like to make an argument that while yes there are a lot of humanoid Persona, most of them are so alien in design That I think it's ok to include them while fair personas like Cu Chulainn def do not fit but I think designs like Arsene are fine especially if your allowing things like gardevoir, alakazam or the Simurgh
- Location
- france
- Pronouns
- He
Be my guest it would be great if it could be added to the CM, it's an iconic game. I'm not sure how you could solve the issues inherent to the wiki in an elegant way but if you have a solution that would be great. Because yes, if the humanoid-looking persona was the only problem I would be willing to let it slide to some extent.
Here you can use what was done last time as a base: Doc.
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I need to talk to you about the Jackie Chan Category again @zagan. I wanted to wait for the holidays to end before I brought it up, but the recent voting brought it up first.
That message in the notes about unclear pricing is something I've been working to address this last month, by rewatching the entire 5 seasons of the show and working from comparisons of similar abilities present in the main CM doc. I can see where I've messed up now, most obviously the Dog Talisman shouldn't have been so cheap, and I didn't think through some of the others enough to be so confident about the category.
docs.google.com
I think I finally fixed the category notes as well, this was as clear and concise as I could make it and I'm going to be utterly ashamed if it still can't be understood. My intentions for it were the rolls made on the CM being too random for a strict one to one of the Noble Animal matching what they may already have, so I took what info I could glean from the series events to broaden the criteria, and I found some proof this is accurate from how The Yak (in Uncle's own words "Yak is a type of Ox") and Shendu (the last living dragon) gaining the powers of the Ox and the Dragon Talismans respectively. All of that and becoming the Keeper of the Talismans in my mind means being able to choose a host for them within those limits.
Changed the pricing of the demon sorcerers by a hundred as well, they do be large and powerful but perhaps not top tier kaiju level powerful. I thought Shendu needed the Dragon Talisman to use his fire breath, a misconception on my part, so I took it out of his notes.
Mini and Ninja Khan were set to 300 as the rest, Mini are physically the weakest and small as a bug but their ability to eat shadows was something I underestimated, and the Ninja are set apart from the other Khan with their tools and skill as silent ninja, where the others are quiet but direct fighters. (I completely forgot they have wingsuits to glide with and various ninja weapons/tools hidden on them)
The Dark Chi Warriors were fine as they were of course (you practically made that one yourself after all) but I needed to go through the CM rules to realize they should be labeled an orange for modifiers rather than the red for powers, same for the Oni Masks.
On the Oni Masks, changed the notes for them as well, it should be easier to work with now. Summon the Oni Generals as individual creatures under the CM rules or hand out a set of masks that can offer much the same for just one creature slot. I really wanted them to be able to summon a group of Shadowkhan to lead, they are called the Oni Generals for a reason, and as the masks let others do the same, this seemed the best way to do it to me. Removed the gaining of Ninja Khan from the notes, Tarakudo despite being the king of them does not have his own clan and is already a powerful first mask for the price.
Lastly, it was a trial to measure the Talismans against other creatures' powers, not the least of which was finding a suitable match to compare it with.
Used Sustained Immortality for the Dog at 700, the Talisman keeps you from sustaining damage but doesn't stop the pain of receiving that injury and it can be overcome with sufficient power in some cases, so you can be missing body parts but not die.
The Dragon Talisman at 400 for most fire breathing dragons being around that price in several categories, and it counts as magical dragonfire in the series, hence Shendu having a hole in his chest even with the Dog and Horse Talisman being in his possession at the time.
The Horse Talisman I made 500 as it can heal anything from people to objects, with seemingly no limits aside from aging or the dead.
The Monkey at 400 as its limited to mundane animals only, no dinosaurs or mythical creature transformations, but can be used on practically anyone or anything.
The Rat at 400 points, animate object is 100 points so that is my starting point, intelligence, skills, and knowledge relevant to the objects make another 100, it can give the object magic if they are able to so another 100, and it can be used on multiple objects at once with them being different from the other as well so another 100, making it 400 points at the lowest. This was one of the hardest as using it is too subjective, the outcome depends on what you bring to life. A simple action figure can become a lore accurate miniature version of what it's based on, or a statue can start casting spells and have divine powers like their legends say they do. For an example, you could make a statue of Hero, use the Talisman, and he would believe himself to be the real Hero and most likely reconnect with his Shard as well.
The Rooster Talismans power is based on the user's willpower, Jade could barely lift Tohru, but a literal rooster had enough mental fortitude to lift an entire house with little damage to the building, 400 points as slightly less powerful than a Furon for my base comparison.
The Tiger was the second hardest, as it can only be used on one creature at a time unlike most of the other Talismans, since it splits apart, and the magic goes with it until they are brought together again. I put it at 500, slightly less than Summon x 3 at 600 as it turns one creature to two, and half of the Capstone Physical Splitting at 1000, for the danger of having half of your soul split from you and dying is not protected unlike the Capstone power, with a note about it only having insurance against the evil clone dilemma if it's limited to the Keeper or his summons.
I kept the rest of these at 300, The Ox and Rabbit for how simple Super whichever is, Pig is just thermal/night vision with laser eyes, Sheep can knock a person's soul out of their body, but it doesn't stop them from going back either, Snake is just invisibility that can be shared.
If there's anything you disagree with, DON'T HOLD BACK I really need to know how I can fix it and clear up any misunderstandings in the category on my end, I want this to be the last time it needs to be fixed.
I also finished the Zatch Bell Category I was working on and put it there too if you wanted a look before adding it and I finished gathering all the entries for the Toriko Category I was working on, it just needs to be price checked and to remove any similar monsters before I can show all that I've found (almost a whole 300 more from what was there originally before I make some cuts).
That message in the notes about unclear pricing is something I've been working to address this last month, by rewatching the entire 5 seasons of the show and working from comparisons of similar abilities present in the main CM doc. I can see where I've messed up now, most obviously the Dog Talisman shouldn't have been so cheap, and I didn't think through some of the others enough to be so confident about the category.
Carry over to send to others.
Sheet1 Jackie Chan Adventures,Zatch Bell Roll,d34,Roll,d40 <a href="https://jackiechanadventures.fandom.com/wiki/Noble_Animals">-When you gain a Talisman, it can be summoned as the Talisman itself or inside a creature that is a similar species to the Noble Animal on the face of the Talisman. -C...
I think I finally fixed the category notes as well, this was as clear and concise as I could make it and I'm going to be utterly ashamed if it still can't be understood. My intentions for it were the rolls made on the CM being too random for a strict one to one of the Noble Animal matching what they may already have, so I took what info I could glean from the series events to broaden the criteria, and I found some proof this is accurate from how The Yak (in Uncle's own words "Yak is a type of Ox") and Shendu (the last living dragon) gaining the powers of the Ox and the Dragon Talismans respectively. All of that and becoming the Keeper of the Talismans in my mind means being able to choose a host for them within those limits.
Changed the pricing of the demon sorcerers by a hundred as well, they do be large and powerful but perhaps not top tier kaiju level powerful. I thought Shendu needed the Dragon Talisman to use his fire breath, a misconception on my part, so I took it out of his notes.
Mini and Ninja Khan were set to 300 as the rest, Mini are physically the weakest and small as a bug but their ability to eat shadows was something I underestimated, and the Ninja are set apart from the other Khan with their tools and skill as silent ninja, where the others are quiet but direct fighters. (I completely forgot they have wingsuits to glide with and various ninja weapons/tools hidden on them)
The Dark Chi Warriors were fine as they were of course (you practically made that one yourself after all) but I needed to go through the CM rules to realize they should be labeled an orange for modifiers rather than the red for powers, same for the Oni Masks.
| Orange and Dark Orange indicated either a creature with some special rules common to the whole category, check the description of the category for more details, or it can be a modifier. |
Lastly, it was a trial to measure the Talismans against other creatures' powers, not the least of which was finding a suitable match to compare it with.
Used Sustained Immortality for the Dog at 700, the Talisman keeps you from sustaining damage but doesn't stop the pain of receiving that injury and it can be overcome with sufficient power in some cases, so you can be missing body parts but not die.
The Dragon Talisman at 400 for most fire breathing dragons being around that price in several categories, and it counts as magical dragonfire in the series, hence Shendu having a hole in his chest even with the Dog and Horse Talisman being in his possession at the time.
The Horse Talisman I made 500 as it can heal anything from people to objects, with seemingly no limits aside from aging or the dead.
The Monkey at 400 as its limited to mundane animals only, no dinosaurs or mythical creature transformations, but can be used on practically anyone or anything.
The Rat at 400 points, animate object is 100 points so that is my starting point, intelligence, skills, and knowledge relevant to the objects make another 100, it can give the object magic if they are able to so another 100, and it can be used on multiple objects at once with them being different from the other as well so another 100, making it 400 points at the lowest. This was one of the hardest as using it is too subjective, the outcome depends on what you bring to life. A simple action figure can become a lore accurate miniature version of what it's based on, or a statue can start casting spells and have divine powers like their legends say they do. For an example, you could make a statue of Hero, use the Talisman, and he would believe himself to be the real Hero and most likely reconnect with his Shard as well.
The Rooster Talismans power is based on the user's willpower, Jade could barely lift Tohru, but a literal rooster had enough mental fortitude to lift an entire house with little damage to the building, 400 points as slightly less powerful than a Furon for my base comparison.
The Tiger was the second hardest, as it can only be used on one creature at a time unlike most of the other Talismans, since it splits apart, and the magic goes with it until they are brought together again. I put it at 500, slightly less than Summon x 3 at 600 as it turns one creature to two, and half of the Capstone Physical Splitting at 1000, for the danger of having half of your soul split from you and dying is not protected unlike the Capstone power, with a note about it only having insurance against the evil clone dilemma if it's limited to the Keeper or his summons.
I kept the rest of these at 300, The Ox and Rabbit for how simple Super whichever is, Pig is just thermal/night vision with laser eyes, Sheep can knock a person's soul out of their body, but it doesn't stop them from going back either, Snake is just invisibility that can be shared.
If there's anything you disagree with, DON'T HOLD BACK I really need to know how I can fix it and clear up any misunderstandings in the category on my end, I want this to be the last time it needs to be fixed.
I also finished the Zatch Bell Category I was working on and put it there too if you wanted a look before adding it and I finished gathering all the entries for the Toriko Category I was working on, it just needs to be price checked and to remove any similar monsters before I can show all that I've found (almost a whole 300 more from what was there originally before I make some cuts).
I couldn't spend much time writing or working on the Category's I said I would because of my financial problems, something I brought up before. It hit a peak when I quit my job in August, because they kept me at part time and were constantly telling me they couldn't find any work for me to do despite several new hires getting full time shifts and I was unable to find any other jobs for the last 4 months. The manager I was upset with was recently fired and several of my coworkers and the other managers I worked with want me back, so I have the time to finish working on this stuff again.
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- Location
- france
- Pronouns
- He
@JumpFail200 I see that you put a lot of thought into it. I don't have time to look over everything right now but it does look good. I'll Update the doc at a later point.
And don't worry IRL always takes priority, take care of yourself.
And don't worry IRL always takes priority, take care of yourself.
- Location
- france
- Pronouns
- He
@JumpFail200 I've updated the Jackie Chan Category as you asked. I've changed the rule text significantly however although I tried to remain faithful to your intention. Tell me if you don't like it.
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm sorry you had to do that, if it was too much to have the Talismans be so limited in their hosts there is precedent in Daolong Wong and Uncle hosting the powers inside themselves and was something I'd agonized over adding to the notes, but that was through using Chi Magic to gather them together and wasn't a natural process, so it felt unnecessary to consider complicating it with more rules. It does look good though and should work great now.
On the Zatch Bell Category in the doc as well, whenever you have time a quick word about any issues would be appreciated. I'm expecting to be asked about Rein's wiki being a mess and left a note for that as well.
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- Location
- france
- Pronouns
- He
I haven't checked every entry but it does look good. You're right the image on Rein's wiki page isn't well chosen but apart from that it's fine.
I see no reason why I can't add it to the doc. Anything to change before I do so?
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Nope, it looks good so thank you again for adding it!
- Location
- france
- Pronouns
- He
And done, one more Bonus Category for the doc. Thank you for your work.
- Location
- france
- Pronouns
- He
No sorry I have no intention to add anything to the D&D category. I think it's a solid category with a lot of different things already.