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Tales of History - A Civ-Builder Quest

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GildedSergeant said:
Tbh, I'm a bit mixed on the idea. On the one hand, it sucks that we'll have to rebuld our military. On the other, it could be a blessing in disguise seeing as how likely we thought a hunter-led civil war would be if they came back. And once we stabilize, we can more easily control and influence an initially smaller number of pops to actually make them behave.
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Yea its a blessing now, but only because were in the hyper down ward spiral of doom, Hostile pops would just add to it and even if we reunite, were now one of the if not THE weakest polity in the area, we didn't even USE any of our advantages for much and now their gone. :p

I am convinced that we should get rid of the Mandate now, any possible advantage from it is gone and its probably only gonna hurt us.
 
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Walker Of Chaos said:
It's been decades. Most likely they just got themselves killed, alternatively they might have decided to just go "fuck it" and settled somewhere else.
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I think this is a reference to them as their leader called himself Great Deer:
Azel said:
Much of what the Goat People sold though was not of their own making, but instead made by the Ox People who lived between two rivers east of the mountains and who were in conflict with a group called the Deer People in recent times.
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We still have a couple of advantages remaining. Foremost of these is the Faith of Bones which is an excellent method for spreading influence and control so long as the Mandate is there to guide it (which is why reforming the Council is so important right now). Secondly it does seem like we have access to several luxuries the others lack, notably silver and azurite, which should give our traders a nice boost. This has the potential to combo nicely, with trade caravans ensuring we can integrate with the local system and providing a nice vehicle for our priests to spread our values through the lowlands.
I'm also not sure if i'd go as far as to say we are the weakest polity on the map. While it certainly seems we can't compare to the alliance blocks right now we also have to remember those are composed of multiple settlements that lack the natural defenses of our valley. It wouldn't surprise me if our settlement has an above average population.
 
Walker Of Chaos said:
We still have a couple of advantages remaining. Foremost of these is the Faith of Bones which is an excellent method for spreading influence and control so long as the Mandate is there to guide it (which is why reforming the Council is so important right now). Secondly it does seem like we have access to several luxuries the others lack, notably silver and azurite, which should give our traders a nice boost. This has the potential to combo nicely, with trade caravans ensuring we can integrate with the local system and providing a nice vehicle for our priests to spread our values through the lowlands.
I'm also not sure if i'd go as far as to say we are the weakest polity on the map. While it certainly seems we can't compare to the alliance blocks right now we also have to remember those are composed of multiple settlements that lack the natural defenses of our valley. It wouldn't surprise me if our settlement has an above average population.
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we just need to stop our political death spiral to properly leva ridge it
 
Walker Of Chaos said:
We still have a couple of advantages remaining. Foremost of these is the Faith of Bones which is an excellent method for spreading influence and control so long as the Mandate is there to guide it (which is why reforming the Council is so important right now). Secondly it does seem like we have access to several luxuries the others lack, notably silver and azurite, which should give our traders a nice boost. This has the potential to combo nicely, with trade caravans ensuring we can integrate with the local system and providing a nice vehicle for our priests to spread our values through the lowlands.
I'm also not sure if i'd go as far as to say we are the weakest polity on the map. While it certainly seems we can't compare to the alliance blocks right now we also have to remember those are composed of multiple settlements that lack the natural defenses of our valley. It wouldn't surprise me if our settlement has an above average population.
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Ehhh, the Lowlands would have more Pops, since they can do more and better agriculture, We also have almost zero Military pops, only the two hunter pops, which we don't even control right now.
We lost our military in total and only have basically hunter units.
Our religion is also not very compatible with the majority of the lowlands it seems, who worship spirits and nature.
 
Ghostdevil said:
Ehhh, the Lowlands would have more Pops, since they can do more and better agriculture, We also have almost zero Military pops, only the two hunter pops, which we don't even control right now.
We lost our military in total and only have basically hunter units.
Our religion is also not very compatible with the majority of the lowlands it seems, who worship spirits and nature.
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We have four hunters, surplus production to train more, an almost guaranteed alliance/vassal in the White Clans provided we reform the council and a trait giving us a conversion bonus. Regarding and the Lowlands have a decently long history of brutal wars and settlements being sacked, I think their pop density is lower than you'd expect. Overall while we are by no means n a great position we're also not doomed to forever suck in the future. There is a way out of this hole so long as we avoid panick.
 
Walker Of Chaos said:
We have four hunters, surplus production to train more, an almost guaranteed alliance/vassal in the White Clans provided we reform the council and a trait giving us a conversion bonus. Regarding and the Lowlands have a decently long history of brutal wars and settlements being sacked, I think their pop density is lower than you'd expect. Overall while we are by no means n a great position we're also not doomed to forever suck in the future. There is a way out of this hole so long as we avoid panick.
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I think your vastly underestimating the difference between agricultural groups and non-agricultural groups.
They have massive brutal wars that kill many because they have pops to be rid of, otherwise their wouldn't be so many different groups anymore.
 
Walker Of Chaos said:
We have four hunters, surplus production to train more, an almost guaranteed alliance/vassal in the White Clans provided we reform the council and a trait giving us a conversion bonus. Regarding and the Lowlands have a decently long history of brutal wars and settlements being sacked, I think their pop density is lower than you'd expect. Overall while we are by no means n a great position we're also not doomed to forever suck in the future. There is a way out of this hole so long as we avoid panick.
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I am in the mind to cut the artisans going forword and we could try and give the white clans a seat on the council we need to pull to together soon and rebuild are power
 
So, we seem to all be in agreement that we have to call for a council this turn. In that case, what options do we take?
 
So, we need to find some kind of compromise between the fishes and artisans, but I think it'll be in our best interests to make sure the artisans are a bit more influential than the fishes. Our isolationism has always screwed us over in the past, and if we're the only possible neighbor of the lowlanders to attack... It's only a matter of time before they come back. If we can get some kind of non-aggression treaty with at least a few of the lowlanders, that would go a long way to ensuring our continued existence.
 
Kirron 999 said:
So, we seem to all be in agreement that we have to call for a council this turn. In that case, what options do we take?
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some way of bringing the artisans in line I would ask at this point if to have one of their own become emperor under the mandate to buy time [ this is last ditch to prevent civil war] while we either undermine them our bring a new faction such as the white clans that the bone tenders have greater influence over as a counter weight faction or a army in case of civil war

im spit balling but im certan of one thing we cant let this crises continue we need to rebuild and keep out outside intrusts
 
You realize that the mandate requires a council of three people to activate yes? We can't get an emperor, it goes against the mandate to have one ruler. We can maybe swing an artisan heavy council and attempt to rebalance it with a third faction over the following turns but that runs the risk of getting the fishes very unhappy with reunification.
 
Kirron 999 said:
You realize that the mandate requires a council of three people to activate yes? We can't get an emperor, it goes against the mandate to have one ruler. We can maybe swing an artisan heavy council and attempt to rebalance it with a third faction over the following turns but that runs the risk of getting the fishes very unhappy with reunification.
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At this point I would be happy if we could have an artisan/artisan/fishes council.

sunrise said:
I think this is a reference to them as their leader called himself Great Deer:
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Nice catch! Wonder if we should send an emissary to the "Deer" Peoples after this unification business is all over with.
 
[X] Plan Catch up
-[X] Have the conference and try to mend the differences, lest they fester even more in coming years.
--[X] (Optional) Claim that you are acting on direct orders by the ancestors. (Increased influence over proceedings, but might have long-term consequences.)
--[X] (Optional) Invite the clans as a moderating influence. (Fishes and Artisans will dislike this.)

Press for unification so we don't get further behind, invite the White Clans as a third party and to help ensure no faction can truly dominate the council. Ancestor claim is done in order to maximize success chance, it might bite us in the back later but IMO the risk is worth it and a more theocratic polity isn't necessarily a bad thing. The presence of the White Clans should also hopefully aid in further unifying their polity with ours in order to provide much needed manpower and resources. Immediate post unification goal will be getting trade up and running and forming alliances of some kind (preferably with Sparrow's Rest since there would be no collisions between our future expansion paths). Focus on becoming an important part of the Lowlands-Goat People trade network and wait until some calamity befalls the region before being aggressive.
 
[X] Plan Ultimatum
-[X] Have the conference and try to mend the differences, lest they fester even more in coming years.
--[X] (Optional) Claim that you are acting on direct orders by the ancestors. (Increased influence over proceedings, but might have long-term consequences.)
--[X] (Optional) Invite the clans as a moderating influence. (Fishes and Artisans will dislike this.)
---[X] For too long have the People of the Valley bickered, too long have we strayed from the paths of our ancestors, of unity and harmony. And it must be said that the duties of the Bone Tenders is not only to serve our ancestors memories, but to guide the living according to their ancestors wishes; and as it is our duty, we will arbitrate this conference. Here, within these walls, on this soil, we will discuss and debate every issue and settle every grudge. Let it be known that there will be no deviation, if you do not accept the outcome of this conference, you denounce your ancestors, your blood and your rights; you make yourself an enemy of the Valley, and will be treated as such.

Is this fine?
 
Hm... not much votes yet and since this is rather important, I'd give it some more time.

Vote closes in 24 hours.
 
I imagine things will pick up again once were out of our current state and are back into more normal turns, the succession crisis feels like it has most of everyone unsure of what the hell to do. When things fall back into normal turns and the courses of actions are far more mechanically directed? Should get more activity once again.
 
Yeah i'll admit to feeling very uncertain of what to do these last turns. It's honestly one of the reasons I want to unify sooner rather than latter, I hope that once things go back to normal the more relaxed atmosphere from previous turns.
 
Vote Closed
Adhoc vote count started by Azel on Apr 23, 2020 at 1:55 PM, finished with 47 posts and 8 votes.
  • [X] Plan Catch up
    -[X] Have the conference and try to mend the differences, lest they fester even more in coming years.
    --[X] (Optional) Claim that you are acting on direct orders by the ancestors. (Increased influence over proceedings, but might have long-term consequences.)
    --[X] (Optional) Invite the clans as a moderating influence. (Fishes and Artisans will dislike this.)
    [X] Plan Ultimatum
    -[X] Have the conference and try to mend the differences, lest they fester even more in coming years.
    --[X] (Optional) Claim that you are acting on direct orders by the ancestors. (Increased influence over proceedings, but might have long-term consequences.)
    --[X] (Optional) Invite the clans as a moderating influence. (Fishes and Artisans will dislike this.)
    ---[X] For too long have the People of the Valley bickered, too long have we strayed from the paths of our ancestors, of unity and harmony. And it must be said that the duties of the Bone Tenders is not only to serve our ancestors memories, but to guide the living according to their ancestors wishes; and as it is our duty, we will arbitrate this conference. Here, within these walls, on this soil, we will discuss and debate every issue and settle every grudge. Let it be known that there will be no deviation, if you do not accept the outcome of this conference, you denounce your ancestors, your blood and your rights; you make yourself an enemy of the Valley, and will be treated as such.
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