Suffer Not the Witch (Warhammer 40k Psyker Quest)

- [X] You will change his plan a bit to suit you. You will use your abilities to go up the ducts, rather than with him, and attack from there.
- [X] If he takes offense, you will simply point out you've not mentioned all the tricks up your sleeve. If he demands transparency while speaking with daemons alone, perhaps he was doing something dangerous back there.
The problem I'm seeing with the idea changing the plan specifically for us, and demanding transparency between us two is that it sets us up as a second party to Ciro. We're unlikely to be able to out-fight him for dominance, definitely unable to out-charisma him, and in terms of logic he's already got the majority of the party on his side with what just happened with the daemon.

I think we're much more likely to get good results by trying to frame it as "the party vs Ciro" rather than just us.
 
[X] Defy. Angel or not, you will not simply stand by and let Ciro step into the role of your master.
- [X] You will change his plan a bit to suit you. You will use your abilities to go up the ducts, rather than with him, and attack from there.
- [X] If he takes offense, you will simply point out you've not mentioned all the tricks up your sleeve. If he demands transparency while speaking with daemons alone, perhaps he was doing something dangerous back there.
 
[X] Defy. Angel or not, you will not simply stand by and let Ciro step into the role of your master.
- [X] You will change his plan a bit to suit you. You will use your abilities to go up the ducts, rather than with him, and attack from there.
- [X] If he takes offense, you will simply point out you've not mentioned all the tricks up your sleeve. If he demands transparency while speaking with daemons alone, perhaps he was doing something dangerous back there.




I think it is interesting about how spacemarine will put in charge in renegade warband,but despite I don't want getting killed by astrates we can just leave when this thing is over.

Try to think of plan of forge identity and assamilate in any situation we are in,the galaxy is a limit for us if we survive share living space with daemon in the warp.

We don't need to follow Astrates if we don't want to do.I think Astrates leader will bring Astrates's problem anyway.
 
[X] Obey. You will follow Ciro's orders, both today and in the future.
- [X] Begrudgingly. Ciro is not an enemy to be made lightly, and you do not think he will take defiance well. Bow your head, follow his orders, but keep your eyes open. An opportunity will come sooner or later, you just need to be ready.
- [X] Remain open to the notion that he might be worth following sincerely in the future, a man who trusts no one is as helpless as one to trusts everyone

Tentatively going on with this one. We still need to have a way out of this wreck. If we managed to secure a route, then there still the case of undermining and convincing the party of the sketchiness of the whole situation with Ciro. Still, astartes vs puny magicman is not a fair match up in our favour.
 
Tentatively going on with this one. We still need to have a way out of this wreck. If we managed to secure a route, then there still the case of undermining and convincing the party of the sketchiness of the whole situation with Ciro. Still, astartes vs puny magicman is not a fair match up in our favour.
I think we'll still have a way out of this wreck, it appears a deal has been made already, and you don't break deals with things like that daemon without risking serious problems so I don't think that's going to change. The point of one of the write-in was to try to get the rest of the party on-board against Ciro taking unilateral control of our plans going forward, and to try to undercut his authority before he becomes the leader.

Also I think we're better off against a space marine than what "fighter vs wizard" would have people believe. 40k psykers are pretty terrifying, and we've already shown the ability to just up and fly away. Combined with ranged mortal wounds we certainly won't go down without a fight, which means Ciro will have to determine if such a fight/wounds and ammo expenditure is worth it.
 
[X] Obey. You will follow Ciro's orders, both today and in the future.
- [X] Begrudgingly. Ciro is not an enemy to be made lightly, and you do not think he will take defiance well. Bow your head, follow his orders, but keep your eyes open. An opportunity will come sooner or later, you just need to be ready.
 
We don't need to kill him, offing Ciro just loses us our space marine of the party and might make tensions worse. We just need to undercut his attempt at taking control, and bring enough attention to it that he can't do anything about it without risking the party breaking up.
 
We don't need to kill him, offing Ciro just loses us our space marine of the party and might make tensions worse. We just need to undercut his attempt at taking control, and bring enough attention to it that he can't do anything about it without risking the party breaking up.
I don't see how we can do that while letting him live; he's stronger and more charismatic. The longer we wait, the more allies he'll get, and the more used to just obey we'll be. On the off chance we do manage to wrestle authority from him, we'll just make an enemy of a transhuman demigod of murder.

We have no choice but slavery or murder, and we just got free-ish from the Imperium.

Now, the issue is that his plan is actually rather sound (unsurprisingly given the aforementionned transhuman demigod of murder thingie) so I have no idea how to convince others not to follow it. It's just that right now is possibly our best chance to bring him down.

[?] Defy. Angel or not, you will not simply stand by and let Ciro step into the role of your master.
- [?] Something about how we didn't try to escape from the Inquisition/Imperium just to become his servants? Appeal to an ideal rather than facts?
- [?] If he takes offense, free Karnak Zul to bring him down. Better the devil we know is a devil than the angel we're pretty sure is one. That's how the saying went, right?

Of course, the main issue of this plan is that we lose our chance at tol boyfrien, and that's terrible.
 
Maybe there's a way to get in contact with Crane and have him off Ciro for us, unwittingly or not. Could we go back and repair the servo skull? or was that obliterated? Is it possible for us to use some other communication system on the ship to do the job? If we were to partner up with Bore, we could come across something to reprogram or splice together for that purpose.
 
I don't see how we can do that while letting him live; he's stronger and more charismatic. The longer we wait, the more allies he'll get, and the more used to just obey we'll be. On the off chance we do manage to wrestle authority from him, we'll just make an enemy of a transhuman demigod of murder.
I don't altogether agree that we have to kill Ciro; I'm not yet certain he'll take anything short of unquestioning obedience as reason to resort to the murder of his only allies. There's a lot of Vincenzo's preconceptions and insecurities colouring our interactions with Ciro.

That aside, this is a good point that I think everybody should keep in mind. If we are going to buck Ciro's authority, the opportune time will not be discovered by waiting. We will grow more seasoned and more confident, yes, but we will also grow more used to obeying him, and he in turn will consolidate his rule. He is, in all likelihood, frankly better at consolidating his rule over time than we are at weakening it. The opportune time is here, now, while everything is not yet settled and there is still flex in the way the group is arranged.
 
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It is naive to think we could just abandon the group after escaping the ship?

Because I don't think is in our best interest to continue with them, they are a powerkeg. I think of them as a medium to an end, just that, I don't care about Ciro taking the leadership as long as Vincenzo is.able to go his separate way later.

Perhaps is because I want for him to slip back into society, so I don't think is worth defying him and taking a more active leadership role in a groupI want to abandon. it depends of what the endgame here is.
 
As a side note, I feel like the answer here might honestly just be "stab him," because as it turns out, we're really, really good at that, and he's also pretty good at that, but we have a force sword and he doesn't. Also, I think there might be a typo on the character sheet, because the sword is listed as having a base damage of strength +5 +4d10.

No, the force sword really does have a profile of Strength+5+4ED.

Note that "ED" isn't the same as "d10" though. In Wrath and Glory, ED means Extra Damage dice, which is to say a d6 roll with 4+ giving one more damage and 6 giving two, same as all basic skill checks.

So in Vincenzo's case the raw damage of the weapon is 7-15... well actually 10-18 because it's got the Force quality and thus adds half his willpower to the base damage as well. It also ignores three points of armour.

This is, for reference, about enough to shear an Ork Nob in heavy armour clean in two with a decent damage roll. It wouldn't kill a space marine in one hit, but it would definitely hurt, and two hits would probably do it. Vincenzo is genuinely extremely dangerous in melee, it's just getting there that might be the issue.
 
It is naive to think we could just abandon the group after escaping the ship?

Because I don't think is in our best interest to continue with them, they are a powerkeg. I think of them as a medium to an end, just that, I don't care about Ciro taking the leadership as long as Vincenzo is.able to go his separate way later.

Perhaps is because I want for him to slip back into society, so I don't think is worth defying him and taking a more active leadership role in a groupI want to abandon. it depends of what the endgame here is.
Putting aside the fact that it's not narratively great, we can't really slip back into society; we're a psyker and the Inquisition already caught us once.
 
yah i don't care about this group, really want to jump ship the first opportunity I get, the only one I might considering teaming up with his sidhe, after that really don't want to work with someone who put demon stuff in him, and a demonsummoner, and ciro unless something changes
 
[X] Defy. Angel or not, you will not simply stand by and let Ciro step into the role of your master.
- [X] You will change his plan a bit to suit you. You will use your abilities to go up the ducts, rather than with him, and attack from there.

I actually like this idea. Either Ciro escalates the conflict, changes his plans or explains why his way is better. And the thing about orders - they are not explained, they're followed. If he explaines them, this already stops being "Ciro gives orders" and becomes "Ciro proposes a plan".

I don't really like the second bullet point of this plan though.
 
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[X] Defy. Angel or not, you will not simply stand by and let Ciro step into the role of your master.
- [X] You will change his plan a bit to suit you. You will use your abilities to go up the ducts, rather than with him, and attack from there.
- [x] Kill the daemon before leaving.

Mostly I don't want that daemon around, especially now that Ciro the suspicious just had a little chat with it.

Ciro's plan seems to have overlooked the all important part of making sure we don't leave a dangerous enemy at our back. Don't worry yourself Ciro, as a good and thoughtful friend we'll get that done for you!
 
[X] Obey. You will follow Ciro's orders, both today and in the future.
- [X] Begrudgingly. Ciro is not an enemy to be made lightly, and you do not think he will take defiance well. Bow your head, follow his orders, but keep your eyes open. An opportunity will come sooner or later, you just need to be ready.
We have a demon right there. If we want to get rid of the space marine, it's now or never.
The problem there is pushing him into the demon might also break the demon's bindings. Which would kill everyone, not just Ciro.
 
[X] Obey. You will follow Ciro's orders, both today and in the future.
- [X] Begrudgingly. Ciro is not an enemy to be made lightly, and you do not think he will take defiance well. Bow your head, follow his orders, but keep your eyes open. An opportunity will come sooner or later, you just need to be ready.

The problem there is pushing him into the demon might also break the demon's bindings. Which would kill everyone, not just Ciro.
Not if we make a deal with it before.
 
It is naive to think we could just abandon the group after escaping the ship?

Because I don't think is in our best interest to continue with them, they are a powerkeg. I think of them as a medium to an end, just that, I don't care about Ciro taking the leadership as long as Vincenzo is.able to go his separate way later.

Perhaps is because I want for him to slip back into society, so I don't think is worth defying him and taking a more active leadership role in a groupI want to abandon. it depends of what the endgame here is.
Ciro is the handler for the daemon who'll be our Navigator, so I guess he has the most say out of the party members in where the ship goes. Nadia probably has her own ideas of where to go, given that she wants to "reclaim her birthright". I imagine anywhere you could stash a prison ship full of corpses without anyone asking questions is going to either be a very isolated place or a very sketchy place, and therefore be difficult to escape from. We may be stuck with Ciro for a long time.
 
I don't see how we can do that while letting him live; he's stronger and more charismatic. The longer we wait, the more allies he'll get, and the more used to just obey we'll be. On the off chance we do manage to wrestle authority from him, we'll just make an enemy of a transhuman demigod of murder.
That's why my write-in had us framing the problem as "the party vs Ciro" rather than "us vs Ciro." If our rational for defying is simply for us to do something different like in the other write-in, we are trying to step into the role of order-giver too, which will definitely lead to anger from Ciro and perhaps other party members. And to be honest we are never going to be a more capable leader than Ciro, so we've already lost that battle.

Not if we make a deal with it before.
Please don't. We just had a vote about how we'd kill it before working with it that starting this whole problem.
 
[X] Defy. Angel or not, you will not simply stand by and let Ciro step into the role of your master.
- [X] You will change his plan a bit to suit you. You will use your abilities to go up the ducts, rather than with him, and attack from there.
- [X] If he takes offense, you will simply point out you've not mentioned all the tricks up your sleeve. If he demands transparency while speaking with daemons alone, perhaps he was doing something dangerous back there.

You don't think from SM perspective, while defiance isn't a way to earn his favour, it won't kill MC also, because then SM would lose the only potentially psyker he can recruit right now, he will try to buy others, but he will fail in that regards imho and he know it. Only MC is vulnerable to his charisma and maybe Rogue trader. Sidhe don't give a shit, she will just stick around as would the heretek

Edit: Isn't the Heretek half demonic himself? How is that not issue for MC also?
 
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