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Suffer Not the Witch (Warhammer 40k Psyker Quest)

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"A Daemon isn't a person that can be trusted but rather a malign entity that will attempt to gain our trust only to screw us all when it senses opportunity." - I already see others asking "How many demons you've met to say this so surely? Or is it the imperium's words that you base this belief on?"

I'm sure this will go well.
 
Varder said:
"A Daemon isn't a person that can be trusted but rather a malign entity that will attempt to gain our trust only to screw us all when it senses opportunity." - I already see others asking "How many demons you've met to say this so surely? Or is it the imperium's words that you base this belief on?"

I'm sure this will go well.
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Maugan Ra said:
"Hardly a current concern," Zul says with that same horrible smile, and you realise in that moment it doesn't know any better, it's trying to be friendly but doesn't know how,
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Well there's this. Hundreds of years and it's failed to even emulate a human properly. We base things on what we know and everything we know so far points to daemons screwing over everyone that gets close to them. Just because something was learned on Malfi doesn't make it untrue by default.

If the others have counterpoints of daemons being friendly and trustworthy then that's fine too. I'm willing to be convinced if daemons can be proven to be trustworthy companions. On the other hand we know for a fact that this particular daemon has screwed over everyone it has ever worked with.
 
WorldSlayer said:
On the other hand we know for a fact that this particular daemon has screwed over everyone it has ever worked with.
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No we don't? We only know that it screwed over inquisitors and their servants. Somehow I don't think this would be IC labled "completу diabolical evil", considering everything.
 
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err yah it did killed the navigators destroyed the ship, bassicly turned the crew into modern day carrions that screwed everyone over in my book
 
[X] Relief. You're not damned, no matter what others might have said, no matter what you might have thought. If binding a daemon is not grounds for damnation, then sheltering with a dark cult in ignorance cannot be either. You are not a wicked man, and so you do not need to embrace death or damnation outright, not yet.

[X] Safety First. Kill it, kill it now. Working with a daemon is madness, as is taking its presentation of the path ahead on trust. Destroy the creature, and between the lot of you, find some other way to escape from the Imperium's retribution.
-[X] Warp travel with a proper, sane navigator that understands what people need to stay alive is dangerous enough, wrangling a malevolent entity that destroyed an Inquisitors ship, wants to eat your souls, and already has some influence over you and Bore is worse. Writing a contract that would try and safely bring you anywhere is suicide, considering you have no first-person experience of warp navigation, the daemon knows the ship better than you, and doing anything with daemons is more dangerous with a psyker around.

We should point out how many added variables make this a bad idea.
 
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If the daemon has forgotten how to interact with mortals, how can it be expected to act in alignment with the interests of mortals? It'd be like having a deaf man sing and expecting artistry.

I'm fully aware that there are deaf people who can sing well IRL, but I don't think Zul has anywhere near their level of practice, and I think the argument would appeal to Sidhe.
 
I mean what did you expect the daemon to do? Imagine you're him. Imagine you were chilling out in the warp with some daemonnettes. Then just when things are getting fun some absolute bastard binds you to a corpse and starts calling you slave. All the daemon wanted was to get free and I can't really begrudge him for that. So it killed the ship, so what? It was a ship full of people that were his enemy, blaming him for that when we just killed a lot of people for the same reason would be extremely hypocritical.

As for the corruption argument, I'm calling bullshit. He was able to communicate even when bound as was proven in the last post. Thus if he wanted Chaos worshippers then he would have gotten them long before. Are our mutant allies Chaos worshippers? No, they're not. Therefore clearly this is not something he wants right this instant.

Calling him safe would be a stretch. But voting to kill him just because he's a daemon is being the same as the dude that tortured us just because we're a psyker. This Imperial hypocrisy come again. Where did we even get the idea that all daemons are evil? From the Imperial propaganda machine, which says that everything that is not the same as us is literally the devil.

GIve the daemon a chance. I'm sure that beneath his blood-soaked appearance and weird smile there lies a golden heart just waiting for somebody to see it.
 
[X] Anger. He dared, he dared to sneer and judge and condemn you? Your crimes were born of ignorance and fear, but compared to this monstrosity they are nothing! Anger at Tahr's hypocrisy, and hatred for the system which judges him superior to you, will guide you going forward.

[X] Common Interest. Trusting a daemon is madness, but you can believe it wants to be free as much as you, and will not sabotage its own chances of success. Watch it carefully, and part ways as soon as your mutual desires are fulfilled.
-[X] Were not each and every one of you damned by the Inquisition? Better to join hands and escape their hypocrisy, than destroy your chances of escape in a fit of belated piety.

Hello yes I heard people needed good decisions to be made.
 
Common interest fails the common sense test. Daemons of the Dark Gods cannot be trusted to even see to their own self interest because they are manifestations of the madness of Chaos. If we had any inkling that this daemon was somehow warped, or changed, that is valued its prison of flesh or had taken in some aspect of humanity I might consider it, but it does not. This is a standard daemon and so should get the standard daemon reaction

[X] Relief. You're not damned, no matter what others might have said, no matter what you might have thought. If binding a daemon is not grounds for damnation, then sheltering with a dark cult in ignorance cannot be either. You are not a wicked man, and so you do not need to embrace death or damnation outright, not yet.

[X] Safety First. Kill it, kill it now. Working with a daemon is madness, as is taking its presentation of the path ahead on trust. Destroy the creature, and between the lot of you, find some other way to escape from the Imperium's retribution.
-[X] Warp travel with a proper, sane navigator that understands what people need to stay alive is dangerous enough, wrangling a malevolent entity that wants to eat your souls into bringing you safely through the warp is worse. Writing a contract on a subject that regularly kills the experts on it, with secondhand experience at best, is practically suicide.
 
As a side note, the daemon knew who it was waking up, and had 200 years to plan this. You also woke up next to a body that had rotted away as the disposal system failed, so it's lying about the exact circumstances of your awakening, too.
 
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[X] Anger. He dared, he dared to sneer and judge and condemn you? Your crimes were born of ignorance and fear, but compared to this monstrosity they are nothing! Anger at Tahr's hypocrisy, and hatred for the system which judges him superior to you, will guide you going forward.

[X] Common Interest. Trusting a daemon is madness, but you can believe it wants to be free as much as you, and will not sabotage its own chances of success. Watch it carefully, and part ways as soon as your mutual desires are fulfilled.
-[X] Were not each and every one of you damned by the Inquisition? Better to join hands and escape their hypocrisy, than destroy your chances of escape in a fit of belated piety.
 
[X] Relief. You're not damned, no matter what others might have said, no matter what you might have thought. If binding a daemon is not grounds for damnation, then sheltering with a dark cult in ignorance cannot be either. You are not a wicked man, and so you do not need to embrace death or damnation outright, not yet.
[X] Direct Control. Between Nadia and Bore, surely there must be some way to control the daemon, to make certain of its actions and loyalties? You cannot allow it true freedom, but it did not lie when it said you needed it, so use it as one would a dangerous tool and be done.
 
[X] Relief. You're not damned, no matter what others might have said, no matter what you might have thought. If binding a daemon is not grounds for damnation, then sheltering with a dark cult in ignorance cannot be either. You are not a wicked man, and so you do not need to embrace death or damnation outright, not yet.
[X] Direct Control. Between Nadia and Bore, surely there must be some way to control the daemon, to make certain of its actions and loyalties? You cannot allow it true freedom, but it did not lie when it said you needed it, so use it as one would a dangerous tool and be done.
 
[X] Resignation. Of course, of course the Inquisitor did this. You'd seen similar in the nobles you guarded and championed. 'Rules for thee but not for me.' Same bullshit, different circumstances. The lesso- the indoctrination of the Imperium that has been beaten into you must be examined. When you have time, understand why you believe what you believe. Find your own right and wrong.

[X] Safety First. Kill it, kill it now. Working with a daemon is madness, as is taking its presentation of the path ahead on trust. Destroy the creature, and between the lot of you, find some other way to escape from the Imperium's retribution.
-[X] Warp travel with a proper, sane navigator that understands what people need to stay alive is dangerous enough, wrangling a malevolent entity that destroyed an Inquisitors ship, wants to eat your souls, and already has some influence over you and Bore is worse. Writing a contract that would try and safely bring you anywhere is suicide, considering you have no first-person experience of warp navigation, the daemon knows the ship better than you, and doing anything with daemons is more dangerous with a psyker around.
 
[X] Anger. He dared, he dared to sneer and judge and condemn you? Your crimes were born of ignorance and fear, but compared to this monstrosity they are nothing! Anger at Tahr's hypocrisy, and hatred for the system which judges him superior to you, will guide you going forward.

[X] Common Interest. Trusting a daemon is madness, but you can believe it wants to be free as much as you, and will not sabotage its own chances of success. Watch it carefully, and part ways as soon as your mutual desires are fulfilled.
-[X] Were not each and every one of you damned by the Inquisition? Better to join hands and escape their hypocrisy, than destroy your chances of escape in a fit of belated piety.

Yeah, sure, why not.
 
I cannot believe I have to make this argument, but what makes you guys think that just because this quest acknowledges that the IoM is evil chaos can't be irredeemably evil as well? I mean we would not walk up to a hungry tyranid thinking its a misunderstood puppy right? We would not try a paceful negotiation with an orc wold we?
 
DragonParadox said:
I cannot believe I have to make this argument, but what makes you guys think that just because this quest acknowledges that the IoM is evil chaos can't be irredeemably evil as well? I mean we would not walk up to a hungry tyranid thinking its a misunderstood puppy right? We would not try a paceful negotiation with an orc wold we?
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It's not about evil or whatever, we all are aware demon's an evil monster.
Question's just whether it's useful to us more than it's dangerous, and how likely are we to fuck up containment.


Nonetheless, thing is, while party might be not against hanging out with demon, locals probably are not fond of the idea. And I am not sure what is the tradeoff between demonhost and Carrion.
 
ctulhuslp said:
It's not about evil or whatever, we all are aware demon's an evil monster.
Question's just whether it's useful to us more than it's dangerous, and how likely are we to fuck up containment.


Nonetheless, thing is, while party might be not against hanging out with demon, locals probably are not fond of the idea. And I am not sure what is the tradeoff between demonhost and Carrion.
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Common interest treats the neverborn as though it can have comprehensible self interest. It does not, where as for us being lost in the warp would be a fate worse than death for it the loss would be simply of its meatsuit. Does this seem like something we want navigating? Particularly as it is made of hate and murder?
 
DragonParadox said:
I cannot believe I have to make this argument, but what makes you guys think that just because this quest acknowledges that the IoM is evil chaos can't be irredeemably evil as well? I mean we would not walk up to a hungry tyranid thinking its a misunderstood puppy right? We would not try a paceful negotiation with an orc wold we?
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I mean, I for one would absolutely try a peaceful negotiation with an ork, if we needed something from them. Orks have a long and well-known history of making deals with others, usually hiring on as mercenaries in exchange for weapons and supplies.

Yes, true, they almost inevitably turn those weapons and supplies on their erstwhile paymasters, but, and this is important, that's why you hit the bricks immediately after paying them. You get what you need from them in the short term, then flee before their inevitable medium-term betrayal happens.
 
Imrix said:
I mean, I for one would absolutely try a peaceful negotiation with an ork, if we needed something from them. Orks have a long and well-known history of making deals with others, usually hiring on as mercenaries in exchange for weapons and supplies.

Yes, true, they almost inevitably turn those weapons and supplies on their erstwhile paymasters, but, and this is important, that's why you hit the bricks immediately after paying them. You get what you need from them in the short term, then flee before their inevitable medium-term betrayal happens.
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It is a rare ork that becomes a merc, sure they are famous when they do but that is because they are so odd. Most orks will not stop to negotiate. Still even the ork, malfunctioning bio-weapon weapon that they are have nothing on chaos. The daemon here is made of hate and murder.
 
People are making an awful lot of assumptions about this particular daemon's nature when we have, to my knowledge, had no particular information about its associations.
 
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